Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Schadenfreudia

MJohnston wrote: »

It makes it sensible for quite a lot of people. At least lxflyer is responding with factual arguments, you're just preying on rhetorical notions regarding government mistakes. Are you a politician? They seem to be mostly concerned with throwing blame than just getting things right in the present.

I'm not a politician. Concern from infrastructural spending appears not to win many votes unless the proposed spend is very local.

I'm replying to points made and blocking a major transport artery before other necessary measures to support city centre measures is not "getting things right".

I have clearly indicated by support for the points made by lxflyer, no point in me repeating them.

We are proposing, now, 2016, to yet again take the cheap solution regardless of the consequences.

I also predict we'll be opening up the "plaza" to PT again when the chaos ensues. Maybe you missed that?

And if you are going to characterise my points rather then deal with them - I can do that too in response;)

Schadenfreudia

lxflyer wrote: »

Line F was actually to route via James's Street, Thomas Street, Lord Edward Street and Dame Street to terminate on College Green.

Wasn't the latest proposal, before the economic crash, to do Lucan to Inchicore and long-finger the spur to Trinity?

cgcsb

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

If that's true than that is a problem; the "private cars" is not going to be contested by many - but bus services are Pubic Transport - the only form of PT for much of Dublin thanks to the failure to develop anything near an adequate Luas/Metro network.

As for a "fait acompli" - probably. But then it's odd that people here who whine about the M50 seem to regard it as "bad planning" despite the fact that a vast majority supported it.

Unlike the Plaza in a few years time when it causes commuter chaos.....we won't be digging up the M50!

The M50 it's self was not bad planning, the over suburbanisation of Dublin was bad planning.

cgcsb

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

It certainly was/is if we were prepared to invest in a higher spec; more tunnels and raised sections.....like they do everywhere else.

The route as it was proposed was unworkable, which was my point. Of course a more direct route with segregation would have been a great asset, but we are a rural orientated society and will remain so as long as our current population distribution remains at only circa 60% Urban, Europe's exception.

cgcsb

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Wasn't the latest proposal, before the economic crash, to do Lucan to Inchicore and long-finger the spur to Trinity?

Yup, so we would've had trams from Tallaght, Saggart and Lucan all piling into the at-grade red luas line in the City Centre. Meaning infrequent services for all.

LXFlyer

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Wasn't the latest proposal, before the economic crash, to do Lucan to Inchicore and long-finger the spur to Trinity?

Not sure about that. I'm pretty sure it was always heading down to Trinity.


I certainly don't recall it ever being suggested that it would follow the Red Line through the city centre.

AngryLips

Of course, they could still proceed with line F and simply terminate it a bit earlier and before the plaza, like in front of the central bank. There would be much less demand for such a wide road space on Dame Street between College Green and the junction of Georges Street once this plan is implemented

noelfirl

The later proposals with regards to Lucan definitely separately designated the projects into F1 (Lucan - Blackhorse) and F2 (James's - Trinity). I recall F2 even went down the road with a snazzy subname - Luas Liberties.

Can't be absolutely certain but I think that was to translate into F1 being built first then F2 at a later stage (i.e. maybe not at all).

LXFlyer

Either way - I think line F is somewhat irrelevant here - I can't see it ever materialising.

LXFlyer

Dublin Bus have issued a statement this afternoon:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/College-Green-Bus-Corridor-of-Strategic-Importance-to-Dublin-Bus-customers/

College Green Bus Corridor of Strategic Importance to Dublin Bus customers

Published on Monday, February 08, 2016

As the largest public transport service provider in Ireland, with 122 million customer journeys in 2015, College Green is a corridor of strategic importance for Dublin Bus. Almost two thirds (61%) of all public transport trips into Dublin city centre are made on Dublin Bus.

The College Green Bus Corridor has given faster, consistent and more reliable journey times for the 82 million Dublin Bus customers who travel through it annually. This in turn benefits customers on all cross city routes and generally benefits the reliability of the 360,000 daily customer trips across our network.

The corridor has been the single most progressive element of the Bus Priority Programme in the Greater Dublin Area and has delivered major benefits. It is at the core of Dublin’s retail and commercial centre which is where people coming into Dublin city want to go. Dublin Bus plays a significant part in the solution towards migrating people to public transport thus helping to create sustainable urban living in our capital and ensuring that Dublin city remains a thriving economic, cultural, retail, academic, social and political centre.

If Dublin Bus services can no longer travel on this strategic corridor a suitable and realistic alternative needs to be found which is attractive for customers, tourists and businesses and provides:
Bus priority
Reliability
Consistent journey times
Access and close proximity to the core Dublin retail and commercial centre

Dublin Bus will continue to work proactively with Dublin City Council to ensure that bus routes which have been diverted to unsuitable alignments to facilitate Luas Cross City works are reinstated after construction.

MJohnston

Heh, that's an interesting statement in that it addresses the plans without actually addressing the plans!

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

Heh, that's an interesting statement in that it addresses the plans without actually addressing the plans!

I think it's making a public point.

To be fair DB (or indeed BE and IE) very rarely make any public statements with regard to transport policy and decisions - they tend to do it behind closed doors.

Given their semi-state status, making direct statements isn't always easy given the politics involved.

aliveandkicking

cgcsb wrote: »

The city council also quietly turned off traffic light priority for buses across the city over a decade ago to appease the car lobby. They may not have our best interests at heart you know, and indeed they may not really understand what's going on.

DCC have a bus priority system for traffic lights that has been running on some busy city junctions for the last 2 years and is being extended further this year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/buses-in-dublin-to-get-green-light-priority-at-junctions-1.2477960

Carawaystick

It's a pity DB don't say what portion of customers travel in each of the 2 directions through College Green.

It's good to see DB put some hard numbers down before they are swatted away as mere details to be considered, but erra, it'll be grand.

strassenwo!f

I note from reports in the Irish newspapers this week that the City Council are now quite advanced with their plans to pedestrianise College Green. Unfortunately too late for the celebrations related to the Rising, as hoped for by many posters on this thread, but hopefully it will be done well.

MJohnston

Perhaps a mod should lock this thread in favour of the active one here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057584134&page=11

strassenwo!f

MJohnston wrote: »

Perhaps a mod should lock this thread in favour of the active one here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057584134&page=11

Perhaps just renaming it would be better, and keeping at least some discussion of this major project in this forum, even if the 2016 deadline has been missed? It would certainly be a big change to the layout of the city, if it indeed happens.

FreudianSlippers

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Perhaps just renaming it would be better, and keeping at least some discussion of this major project in this forum, even if the 2016 deadline has been missed? It would certainly be a big change to the layout of the city, if it indeed happens.

I actually think the thread title is perfect, given how long it takes to get even fairly basic stuff done here. This will be finished 4 years late! PERFECTO! :pac:

monument

MJohnston wrote: »

Perhaps a mod should lock this thread in favour of the active one here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057584134&page=11

Errr... never mind..,