Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Yixian

The way I see it, Ireland was robbed of it's own vernacular classical period so it should be allowed to experiment with the style now. The whole world shouldn't be on the same stylistic timeline - sure, countries shouldn't get lazy and stick with the same style forever and ever, but I want to see an Irish, celtic take on classicalism, that being grand, stone, realistic depictions of myths or historical figures with heavy symbolism in the details.

But that aside, just the context of the surroundings probably calls for something less modern. A city should have lots of variation but in this spot specifically I think something modern would be a mistake. Original and vernacular yes, modern no, imo.

Architects are pretty much laughed at for not being completely new and original though, so I imagine I'll have a lot of criticism even from people who secretly deep down love the idea xD

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Yixian

Ah well I wasn't thinking anything too imitatory, just bold, realistic in style and heavyyyy with symbolism. Do love some symbolism.

That said an original style could easily win me over, but like you say, nothing like the Floozie xD

Empire o de Sun

I'm just really concerned that the Luas is taken into account and that if it is being done then maybe there should be a big bang and do the whole lot. But the Luas lines should link and share platforms so as to increase interaction between the lines. Each line here has two platforms to increase capacity for a major city centre stop (platform either side and a large 5 m island platform). I've just showed the stop with a thick line either side of the tracks. The platform is 50 m for possible longer trams on the Green (sandyford) line, this is 10 m longer than the current 40 m (or 43 m) trams.

If someone can jazz up the image that'd be cool. cos I've no idea. It is to scale as much as possible.

Empire o de Sun

Then you could have an integrated system

Typewriter

green_jesus wrote: »

I never knew about "King Billy's statue" until I googled it just there.

It looks well I'd be in favor of having it reinstated.

http://www.politics.ie/history/9021-king-williams-statue-dublin.html

How about instead of reinstating controversial king billy how about replicating the podium and putting an Irish elk on top like the one from the old pound coins?



As a non-political icon of Ireland It would look class with the Lucan Luas passing on ether side and also would be a hit with the tourists.

Just a thought.

FreudianSlippers

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Then you could have an integrated system

it is crazy not to have an integrated system imo.

Carawaystick

So how do you get from Phibsboro to Rathmines with this crazy scheme? get a bus to a rail link and another bus?

How do the Brigade or the cops get from Pearse St to anywhere that involves crossing College green?

How do you cross the city when there's no public transport operating?

The University and Temple bar provide road blocks enough crossing the city, without putting a 1.2 - 2km roadblock on transport.

dRNk SAnTA

When we get the pedestrianised College Green of our dreams, the buses will have to be re-routed around Trinity, so we should consider what we could do in the future.

So here is my awful MS Paint diagram. I mentioned this kind of thing previously, but a map is better.

I've drawn:
the Luas Bx Line,
The southern entrance to O'Connell St Metro Station
Highlighted the two DART stations. Remember Pearse Station will be serving two DART lines when DART Underground is finished.

This idea is just off the top of my head. I don't know what side-effects it might have to car journeys, which I think should have lowest priority in this area anyway.

I've only looked at the bus routes I know, which are the ones that head for N11 or Blackrock. Obviously there are also ones that go to South/South West Dublin and these need their own diagrams and different routes.



Some benefits here:

It brings buses right to our DART stations, allows easy connections (if we ever get integrated ticketing)

Bring people to the Pearse Street area which could do with regeneration

Involes the Hawkins House area, which is a big site that owned by the state, and will definitely need redevelopment soon. This site could be interesting, some people have suggested it as a location for the new abbey theatre. It is worth noting the location anyway.

There are obviously lots of ways to tinker with the routes, but having some of the biggest bus routes travel down Westland Row looks like a good idea to me.

Am I mad? Would this not be possible or desirable? Constructive criticism please!

murphaph

Carawaystick wrote: »

So how do you get from Phibsboro to Rathmines with this crazy scheme? get a bus to a rail link and another bus?

How do the Brigade or the cops get from Pearse St to anywhere that involves crossing College green?

How do you cross the city when there's no public transport operating?

The University and Temple bar provide road blocks enough crossing the city, without putting a 1.2 - 2km roadblock on transport.

As nobody is reall advocating this until major upgrades to rail based public transport are made, the logical answer is that you'd take the Luas from St. Peter's Church all the way to Ranelagh where you could either walk to Rathmines or take a connecting bus.

Chuchoter

Looks great, but they could never bring it in until the Luas line went all over Dublin. The retailers would be furious, they already have the bus gate. I think they'd have to keep it quite classical, just because of the surrounding buildings.

dRNk SAnTA

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0428/1224269221820.html

The Irish Times wrote:

Restoration of Dublin to its Georgian glory urged by report

OLIVIA KELLY

CONSTRUCTION OF subterranean traffic routes, removal of trees from College Green, and a prohibition on the use of overhead wires on the new cross-town Luas line are among ambitious proposals for the restoration of Dublin’s historic core in a report to be published tomorrow.

The report, by the Dublin Civic Trust and commissioned by the Dublin City Business Association (DCBA), contains a large number of recommendations which would radically change the appearance of Dublin city centre.

It focuses on the reinstatement of historic Georgian “set pieces”such as the Rotunda Gardens at Parnell Square, and the civic piazza at College Green, as well as the refurbishment of boulevards including Westmoreland Street, Marlborough Street and Grafton Street.

Detailed plans are recommended for these areas which would necessitate removal of most traffic; an increase in pedestrianisation; a ban on bus parking; restoration of derelict buildings and sites; creation of new plazas; reinstatement of granite paving; removal of unnecessary signage, bollards and other “street clutter”; and, in some cases, a complete redesign.

The plans are not costed but the report says their realisation is essential to attract national and international investment to Dublin, retain shoppers and meet the expectations of tourists and citizens.

College Green is the focus for some of the more radical proposals. The area in front of Trinity College and the Bank of Ireland, originally built in 1729 to house parliament, was now “unrecognisable” from the grand civic space it was intended to be, with inappropriately sited and overgrown trees, poor-quality paving and crude engineering works carried out as part of the “bus gate” project, the report said.

The location of trees and public toilets in front of James Gandon’s portico and entrance front to the former House of Lords were particularly unsightly, it said.

The report seeks the pedestrianisation of the majority of the space, the removal of all trees and municipal furniture, the construction of a high-quality paved civic piazza, and the prohibition of overhead power lines proposed as part of the Luas BDX line to connect the north and south of the city.

The prohibition of overhead Luas wires should be extended to O’Connell Bridge, O’Connell Street and the primary streets in the historic core through which the line would pass, it says.

The pedestrianisation of College Green and other important civic areas could be facilitated through the use of underground traffic routes in the city centre – these would reduce congestion but maintain accessibility.

There are similarly ambitious plans for the site of the current Rotunda Hospital at Parnell Square. The original hospital building from the 1750s had become almost entirely lost in a “sea of tarmacadam”, and 20th-century additions had covered much of its gardens, according to the report. The plan seeks the reinstatement of the Rotunda Gardens, which would involve large-scale demolition.

Westmoreland Street is described as “the most prominent and visible stretch of blighted streetscape in the historic city centre”. It has descended into low-grade usages and closed-up shop fronts. It would benefit from pavement widening, an enforcement of the council’s rules on shop-front design and a removal of bus parking. Bus parking had “all but destroyed” the southern end of Marlborough Street, eliminating any other activity. At the northern end, there was scope for a civic plaza in front of the Pro-Cathedral, incorporating grounds of the Department of Education and Science.

The report also envisages the redesign of O’Connell Bridge, a management plan to stop the city becoming “overwhelmed” by taxis, and refurbishment of Grafton Street.
Dublin's historic core: civic trust's recommendations

* Increase in the number of pedestrian areas and the creation of civic plazas at Christchurch, the Pro-Cathedral, College Green, Parnell Square and O’Connell Bridge.
* The widening of pavements and the restoration of historic granite flagstones and kerbing, instead of ugly and discordant repairs using tarmac and poured concrete.
* Prohibition on the use of overhead power lines associated with the proposed Luas cross-city line, at College Green, O’Connell Bridge and the historic streets from St Stephen’s Green to O’Connell Street.
* The enforcement by the council of their shopfront design guidelines which aim to eliminate inappropriate signage and ensure shopfronts are in line with the character of their streets.
* The removal of trees where their location is inappropriate, such as College Green, tree-planting schemes in areas such as O’Connell Bridge, and a reduction in the number of trees in Merrion Square.
* A refurbishment of the Georgian squares and a reinstatement of their residential use. Development levies for redevelopment of listed buildings could be waived to encourage the restoration of Georgian town houses, particularly in the squares.
* An end to the practice of “laying over” or parking out of service buses on many streets, including the quays, Mountjoy Square, Marlborough Street and Westmoreland Street.
* The construction of underground traffic routes which would allow the pedestrianisation of areas such as College Green while still providing access for motorists to the city centre.

Looking forward to reading this report!

murphaph

Don't agree with banning overhead power lines for Luas (it would mean the entire existing fleet would be unable to cross "the gap" without some sort of retrofit: $$$$). Overhead power lines for trams can be put up in a sensitive way by suspending them directly from the buildings rather than from their own poles.

As for cutting down the trees on College Green: O'Connell St. MKII: Big mistake.

donvito99

I welcome this. I think Dublin needs some serious beautification.


But I don't agree with it with regards to trees.


We need more!

I also think get rid of the parking at the front and rear of Leinster House/Dáil, very unsightely.

dRNk SAnTA

The report might be wrong about the power lines, but the authors are right about the trees!

It's an architectural set piece and should be de-cluttered!

More of this: http://sobreespana.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/plaza-mayor-madrid.jpg

And less of this:



(Image stolen from Fergalr on archiseek.com here)

Aard

Move the trees to O'Connell St! :pac:

FreudianSlippers

Move the trees anywhere!

BluntGuy

Does anyone know where the report could be read or purchased?

I tried the DCBA and Dublin Civic Trust websites and couldn't find it.

oharach

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

I agree that there should be no direct connection from the Lucan line to BX South. In fact, I would go as far as to say that we should not be pursuing BXD at all, but FXD (i.e. only Lucan via CC to Broombridge). Metro North will already cover the route from O'Connell Bridge to SSG, and would be extended as planned in tunnel as far as Beechwood. The remainder of the Green line would be upgraded to Metro, which should have happened in the first place to deal with the numbers. There is very little point having a delta junction in College Green and running all three possible route combinations at peak times, because inevitably the capacity is lower on all 3 branches than if they were simply segregated.

And if they do build BXD, and keep F separate, but want a link, it shouldn't be allowed to spoil the plaza, and should be single track down a side street

Thoughts, anyone??

Pete_Cavan

oharach wrote: »

I agree that there should be no direct connection from the Lucan line to BX South. In fact, I would go as far as to say that we should not be pursuing BXD at all, but FXD (i.e. only Lucan via CC to Broombridge). Metro North will already cover the route from O'Connell Bridge to SSG, and would be extended as planned in tunnel as far as Beechwood. The remainder of the Green line would be upgraded to Metro, which should have happened in the first place to deal with the numbers. There is very little point having a delta junction in College Green and running all three possible route combinations at peak times, because inevitably the capacity is lower on all 3 branches than if they were simply segregated.

And if they do build BXD, and keep F separate, but want a link, it shouldn't be allowed to spoil the plaza, and should be single track down a side street

Thoughts, anyone??

I posted this on another forum and felt it was also appropriate here.

It does not make any sense to extend luas all the way out to Lucan as light rail systems are not supposed to span such long distances and are best realised in city centre. A heavy rail system would provide a more efficient service with greater capacity.

This could be achieved by building a spur from Kildare rail line at Inchicore, incoporating the stations on propsed Luas Line F1 (Cherry Orchard, Liffey Valley, Lucan, etc.) and extend it further through Leixlip and into Maynooth line.

Luas Line F1 proposals from Fatima to Trinity is a good idea but why stop there? The line could be extended down Pearse Street, with an interchange at Pearse Street Station, a stop at Grand Canal Dock and terminating at Ringsend/Irishtown where depot, turnback facility could be provided more effectively then outside Trinity. Fatima to Ringsend should take priority over Lucan to Trinity.

This would create an east-west/west-east Luas corridor on the south side of city centre, mirroring that on the north side. This would create a route serving all current Red line stops plus those proposed by Line F1 (Christchurch, Trinity College) plus my proposed stops (Pearse Street, Grand Canal Dock, Irishtown).

They could then link this route to existing Red Line by extending it over the Liffey to connect with the existing Red Line at the stop at the Point bringing line F down to Ringsend and link it through the Sam Beckett bridge which has been built to allow tracks across it.. This would create a loop with two east-west/west-east luas lines running through the city centre, one on each side of the river, allowing one line to serve the entire city centre.

With the area served by excellent public transport, then I think the College Green - O'Connell Street corridor should be off limits to cars, with only Luas Lines F & BXD (eventually) and certain buses passing through it. A pedrestrian corridor stretching from the top of O'Connell Street to St. Stephens Green, with College Green plaza in the middle would be a great addition to the city. Removing unnecessary traffic (Im sure most of you wont see cars as unnecessary here but anyway) from this area would make it easier and safer to route luas and buses along it. Maybe incorporate a dedicated cycle route alone here as well.

Car drivers would have to be accomodated with alternative routes throught the city centre. Some type of deterrent, congestion charge or otherwise, is needed, if only to stop drivers ctting through town to avoid M50 toll. With improved public transport (metro, Luas BXD, Dart Underground) there would be less need for cars anyway. It would need extensive research and planning but Im sure it could be done.

Aard

+1 for pedestrianisation of O'Connell Street. Make it into O'Connell Square. No buses, no cars, and no trams for that matter. It would revitalise the district, particularly the areas east of OCS. The way it is atm, it's difficult for people to cross the street, with most of the shoppers staying on the Henry St side.

Blisterman

Here's college green in 1900, before any street clutter. The Bank of Ireland building looks much grander. Would be great to restore this view.

Wild Bill

Should there not be tram tracks in the photo above? Where are they? Where are the overhead wires?

Sulmac

BluntGuy wrote: »

Does anyone know where the report could be read or purchased?

I tried the DCBA and Dublin Civic Trust websites and couldn't find it.

Months later...

http://www.dublincivictrust.ie/_webgears/_filescontent/Defining-Dublins-Historic-Core.pdf

dubhthach

Wild Bill wrote: »

Should there not be tram tracks in the photo above? Where are they? Where are the overhead wires?

The first electric tram only ran in Dublin in 1896. The first trams opened in the 1870's and were horse pulled. The tramline that ran along Dawson Street and into College Green was probably built as part of the "Donnybrook to Phoenix park" line which was built between 1873-76.

This photo could possibly be from the 1860's to early 1870's. Either that or it's in the period up to 1896 and ye just can't see the tracks due to level of horse-manure in the street.

Yillan

What is the status of this idea at the moment? Any chance of it becoming a reality?

Aard

I image that with Obama's visit, a lot of people would be supportive of the idea of making a square of College Green. Now would be the time for any advocacy groups to start campaigning and contacting city councillors.

mgmt

Hopefully the Bank of Ireland on College Green will be given to the state (we own it anyways). That will really push the idea forward. The worst thing that could happen to College Green is having a squeaky luas wrecking the atmosphere.

Yillan

The Metro North would go underground and the latter of these would be a perfect option should the bxd go ahead:





Both these images are probably already on the thread, but here they are again.

Metro North would be a good start of course.

mgmt

Sulmac wrote: »

Months later...

http://www.dublincivictrust.ie/_webgears/_filescontent/Defining-Dublins-Historic-Core.pdf

I love it. Some great ideas in that document.