Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

mgmt

monument wrote: »

Unless for buses, why would such be needed in Dublin?

To pedestrianise College Green!

It would be a mixed transit tunnel, the luas bxd could run through it as well as cross city bus services. I predict that the backlash against tram lines on College Green mean that they will never get built as is currently planned. The Luas is capable of gradients up to 6%.

Wild Bill

mgmt wrote: »

I was watching the final stage of the Tour de France in Paris. They have a short transit tunnel running under a park beside the Champs Élysées:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Champs-%C3%89lys%C3%A9es,+Parys,+Frankryk&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=48.861141,2.330174&spn=0.002012,0.005284&sll=53.120405,-3.306885&sspn=0.931292,2.705383&dirflg=ht&doflg=ptk&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=48.861141,2.330174&panoid=jD_iLkN3UQsKj6etzBYn5Q&cbp=12,26.95,,0,1.01

There is tons of examples of these tunnels in cities across the world. Surely this option should be considered for College Green or better still a short tunnel under the cricket grounds of Trinity.

Indeed.

But can you imagine the "controversy" that would be generated by the Irish Times; the objections from all manner of nuts worried about Viking remains (or whoever might be down there) - the vast tracts of debate on boards.ie and a dozen other places.

We'd never get it done in 100 years and by the time we'd finished waffling the cost would be 10 times a similar project in Paris or London.

At least there aren't any trees down under Trinity to be destroyed by philistines. :cool:

donvito99

Wild Bill wrote: »

At least there aren't any trees down under Trinity to be destroyed by philistines.

lol, but the ROOTS of the trees would be destroyed...

BrianD

donvito99 wrote: »

Pearse Street is and has been regenerated to an extent, namely by Trinity.

Trinity destroyed Pearse St. The Science Museum is a well overdue "pay back" to the city. Pearse St. is beside a large university and a major rail station. Why is Pearse St. dead - only because of how Trinity uses the buildings on Pearse St.

They should be required to make available the ground floor for mixed retail use. Would go along way towards regenerating the street. Obviously not the best timing to be doing this.

As for College Green it's a laudable idea but probably only because Kenny is still on a high from his speech. I don't think it's a workable idea. The "square" is a "green" for a reason. It has no history as a great square nor do the buildings lend to it ever becoming a great square. It as we found out from Obama's visit, pretty useless as a public space as well.

Anyway, they would want to start getting rid of those trees first - they ruin the sight lines.

donvito99

BrianD wrote: »

Trinity destroyed Pearse St. The Science Museum is a well overdue "pay back" to the city. Pearse St. is beside a large university and a major rail station. Why is Pearse St. dead - only because of how Trinity uses the buildings on Pearse St.

They should be required to make available the ground floor for mixed retail use. Would go along way towards regenerating the street. Obviously not the best timing to be doing this.

As for College Green it's a laudable idea but probably only because Kenny is still on a high from his speech. I don't think it's a workable idea. The "square" is a "green" for a reason. It has no history as a great square nor do the buildings lend to it ever becoming a great square. It as we found out from Obama's visit, pretty useless as a public space as well.

Anyway, they would want to start getting rid of those trees first - they ruin the sight lines.

Depends on what your definition of regeneration is. Pearse St was in tatters with abandoned industrial units that have either been knocked or completely transformed (Chartered accountants/architect's studio building, northside of pearse st).

How would you suggest a university that already has massive site constraints use its own budget? It already has effectively taken the initiative by building student accomodation and a brand new health and leisure centre (avec swimming pool, climbing wall and gym) that is partially open to the public, for security reasons (garda intervention shortly after building opened).

Did the governement have any plans for Pearse St? No. Would you trust a developer to do anything but run of the mill shabby apartment blocks and useless retail space? No. Would anyone let CIE touch tose sites? Of course not.

BrianD

donvito99 wrote: »

Depends on what your definition of regeneration is. Pearse St was in tatters with abandoned industrial units that have either been knocked or completely transformed (Chartered accountants/architect's studio building, northside of pearse st).

How would you suggest a university that already has massive site constraints use its own budget? It already has effectively taken the initiative by building student accomodation and a brand new health and leisure centre (avec swimming pool, climbing wall and gym) that is partially open to the public, for security reasons (garda intervention shortly after building opened).

Did the governement have any plans for Pearse St? No. Would you trust a developer to do anything but run of the mill shabby apartment blocks and useless retail space? No. Would anyone let CIE touch tose sites? Of course not.

There's no need for the Government to have a plan from Pearse St. other than to instruct or suggest Trinity to do something about it.

If you look at the buildings that Trinity occupies, these all effectively have their backs to the street. May of these were retail in the past. Trinity simply cannot be allowed to strangle a street which what they have done. There is a "vicious circle" that somebody has to break. In any other city, universities tend to be surrounded by cafes, retail.

A good plan would be to allow ground floor for retail/commercial (income for the college) and regenerate the street. Upstairs can be used for university use. Look at the properties that the University controls - the Gas building on Westmoreland (you'd be hard pressed to know if it's derelict) and the building on Foster Place that they want to turn into a super pub. Plus the bizarre decision to build a bridge across Westland Row in the past.

There seems to be a pattern here - Trinity aren't really bothered about the city they are in and don't want to integrate into it. They have an opportunity to show leadership and have failed to do so.

Aard

+1

Ground floor use is the most important factor in giving life to any urban area. A long tract of entrance-less buildings is probably the worst thing you can do to a street. The area in front of that just becomes a transit route. Some of Pearse St looks OK, the rest just needs to catch up.


EDIT: While we're having a dig at Trinity, could the please do something with that wall on Nassau St?

Cathaoirleach

Absolutely shocking what DCC have just done in College Green. They've erected 4 lamp poles right in front of the BOI portico and butchered the old granite pavement, patching it up with tarmac. :eek:

Is there anyone in DCC that gives a sh!t about this city?

A post over on Archiseek by GrahamH somes it up


(c) GrahamH

donvito99

Shocking indeed but they do appear to be refurbished classic ones awaiting the ornate top yoke.

I wouldn't mind TBH if they were only temporary (ie. pedestrianisation eventually gets underway) so long as they get rid of those tatty galvinised signage poles and that tatty bin

Cathaoirleach

donvito99 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind TBH if they were only temporary (ie. pedestrianisation eventually gets underway)

That's the problem - it's not temporary.

DCC have an abysmal record of preserving Dublin's architectural heritage and public realm for the simple fact that the people in charge couldn't care less and know that they can get away with it.

Look at the state of the rest of the city. Look at the amount of municipal tat and illegal, hideous shop signage that's been up for years. The DCC aren't enforcing there own regulations, and when they do, the damage has already been done. What's the point?

We can forget about pedestrianising College Green or having any serious city-wide beautification plan when we're up against the incompetent jobsworths in DCC.

Aard

Who decides these things? An individual I'm sure?

dRNk SAnTA

That is absolutely outrageous.

That is Dublin city centre - have we no pride? The place looks like a bomb has gone off, and our city council is the main offender!

I wish they'd set up a body - even of volunteers - who could go in and clear the city centre of all that clutter, it would make a world of difference.

BrianD

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Absolutely shocking what DCC have just done in College Green. They've erected 4 lamp poles right in front of the BOI portico and butchered the old granite pavement, patching it up with tarmac. :eek:

Is there anyone in DCC that gives a sh!t about this city?

A post over on Archiseek by GrahamH somes it up


(c) GrahamH

Are there actually lights on these or are they awaiting to be fitted?

Cathaoirleach

BrianD wrote: »

Are there actually lights on these or are they awaiting to be fitted?

Rest assured, DCC will install four different types of bulb (any old bulb will do) so we can have a mis-mash of different colour temperatures clashing together.

To add insult to injury, several election posters are now springing up on these lamp posts, further destroying the view of Dublin's finest architecture.

Well done, Dublin City Council, you've really outdone yourselves this time.

darragh16

I was always under the impression that this is the route the new Luas connector will be taking. This seems likely in the coming years because the BXD line is going to be the last of the major infrastructural projects in the city to be given the go ahead in the budget & new development plan next year

crushproof

I saw the new lampposts yesterday, complete with the lovely tarmac and election posters. Outraged but the same time no surprised at all so my devious mind was thinking....
What "IF" a few tree surgeons dressed as DCC contractors turned up on a Sunday afternoon and carried out some essential works on the trees and cut them down completely. Of course there would be the usual nig nags calls to Joe but I'd imagine once people see how great the view is then there would be sufficient public support against reinstating any trees. Don't worry, just a thought :P

Wild Bill

Well, those posts are not as nice as trees but they are a start I guess. :cool:

Cathaoirleach

Wild Bill wrote: »

they are a start I guess. :cool:

Sure, we might as well stick in a few bus stops, phone booths and ESB cabinets while we're at it.

You'd fit right in at Dublin City Council.

Wild Bill

Cathaoirleach wrote: »

Sure, we might as well stick in a few bus stops, phone booths and ESB cabinets while we're at it.

You'd fit right in at Dublin City Council.

Nah. I'd be a massive improvement - DCC pay way too much attention to "trendy" fetishists. :cool:

Bigfellalixnaw

Any positive progress on the pedestrianizing of College Green yet?

leshamry

They might have to sell the spire for scrap metal to pay for this. It's a shame they can't print funny money any more?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/1013/1224325206172.html

patrickbrophy18

crushproof wrote: »

I saw the new lampposts yesterday, complete with the lovely tarmac and election posters. Outraged but the same time no surprised at all so my devious mind was thinking....
What "IF" a few tree surgeons dressed as DCC contractors turned up on a Sunday afternoon and carried out some essential works on the trees and cut them down completely. Of course there would be the usual nig nags calls to Joe but I'd imagine once people see how great the view is then there would be sufficient public support against reinstating any trees. Don't worry, just a thought :P

Use this device:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyVHShnIpnw

squod

Can't stand Ciaran Cuffe or any Green party member in fact, but I've been thinking about this for years now. Ever since I started working near Pearse St. Most of our capital city is absolutely wasted on cars and bluddy buses. I'd love to see College Green transformed.

BoySnowie

squod wrote: »

Can't stand Ciaran Cuffe or any Green party member in fact, but I've been thinking about this for years now. Ever since I started working near Pearse St. Most of our capital city is absolutely wasted on cars and bluddy buses. I'd love to see College Green transformed.

I ll have to go easy on Ciaran Cuffe - he had a year in his post as a Minister. Most problems are due to the senior civil servants who are very unwilling to lead change - with the mentality that hasn't changed since the Brits have left our island. If we have more young, creative and energetic people in the top posts at the Civil Service, Dublin will be a world class city.

Aard

In fairness, it's Dublin City Council who should be drawing up plans for College Green, not the government. The Greens as coalition partners would have had little influence on anything to do with College Green.

What DCC should do is to take an audit of pedestrian and car routes in the whole southside retail area (a square from Kildare St to Georges St, Stephen's Green to College Green, plus Temple Bar. Maybe even as far as Tara Street too, given the talk about the "Dublin Midtown" development). There's no point in taking a piecemeal approach to this, the knock-on effects would be too much. It would be a huge undertaking, but the net result would be a fantastic environment for pedestrians. I'm not saying to pedestrianise the whole area, or even to pedestrianise all of College Green. But there has to be a better way of organising all forms of traffic, and it can't be done bit by bit one street at a time.

I would envisage a return to two-way streets as much as possible. Places like Kildare St and Parliament St.

And of course, routes through the area for cyclists should be near the top of the list. Currently the one-way system is a nightmare.

BoySnowie

Aard wrote: »

And of course, routes through the area for cyclists should be near the top of the list. Currently the one-way system is a nightmare.

I agree with you on this - I often get scared when cycling through Dame Street & College Green at night as the road is very badly designed (plus far too many buses there at the same time plus taxis looking for a quick fare) :mad:

varberg

The area would benefit greatly if it were pedestrianised. It would be like covent garden area of london or times square. The traffic should be moved to other areas, and if people drive anywhere near the centre there should be a toll for congestion.The traffic would adjust and the tourists would flock to the traffic free areas.

Imagine if you had people all over walking freely, the abbey and some outdoor theatre, grafton street at one end and temple bar nearby. Coffee shops, some new museums opening due to the flow of people passing nearby, few bars, sandwich bars, street performers..it would be a tourist mecca in ireland.Crazy it hasnt been done already.

Stonewolf

varberg wrote: »

The area would benefit greatly if it were pedestrianised. It would be like covent garden area of london or times square. The traffic should be moved to other areas, and if people drive anywhere near the centre there should be a toll for congestion.The traffic would adjust and the tourists would flock to the traffic free areas.

Imagine if you had people all over walking freely, the abbey and some outdoor theatre, grafton street at one end and temple bar nearby. Coffee shops, some new museums opening due to the flow of people passing nearby, few bars, sandwich bars, street performers..it would be a tourist mecca in ireland.Crazy it hasnt been done already.

So long as it's an actual congestion toll, you know, based on the size of your vehicle.

Aquarius34

It should not be pedestrianized until public transport and a dart underground is built. Period. Dublin city council are a bunch of knobheads

College green is one of the main transport arteries in Dublin city. Block that artery and Dublin's' transport system will have a heart arrest. It is as simple as that in clear view.

richiek83

Aquarius34 wrote: »

It should not be pedestrianized until public transport and a dart underground is built. Period. Dublin city council are a bunch of knobheads

College green is one of the main transport arteries in Dublin city. Block that artery and Dublin's' transport system will have a heart arrest. It is as simple as that in clear view.

Totally agree Aquarius34, Pedestrianising College Green is a fantastic idea but Metro North and DART Underground would in my opinion be needed to ensure that viable Public Transport alternatives are available. It is the one unique Public space that is suitable to a Public Square/ Plaza in Dublin surrounded by great Georgian buildings. The recent New Years Eve concert and the visit of Obama show that the space is ripe for a Public Plaza and not the traffic that does choke it on a daily basis.