Girls and nightclubs.

SugarHigh

SugarHigh wrote: »

If someone hasn't responded to your question maybe it's because they can see that it's obviously a loaded question that would be silly to answer soooo how about you stop spamming it.

silly to answer a simple question which is relevant to why he thinks everyone dresses for everyone else.

If you think I'm spamming report my post.

seenitall

I dress up for male attention. Even more so, as I don't get the chance to go on a night out as often as I would like to.

Competitiveness amongst women as far as dressing up is concerned has always been lost on me. Why would I want to dress up so other women would think: "Oh sugar, should have bought that Kate Moss dress from TopShop, look how great it looks on her?" Total idiocy. There is nothing in it for me.

I get a real kick out of dressing up to go out, because I like to think that my choices in clothes are a bit out of the box, a bit unique etc. I try to do sexy, but edgy too. No greater pleasure for me than to walk into a place and know that I look different to anyone else in there, and so I give it my best to do that, down to wearing my hair differently than most women do (i.e. excessively styled and flattened to within an inch of its life for the most part).

Not to mention make up, which I just don't do. I want male attention, and what will get me it is NOT having on the war paint that 100% of other females in the room have on. (OK, I will have some lipstick on. But that's it.) Male attention seems to be easier to come by when looking relaxed, maybe a bit different, and comfortable in your skin than looking like a clone of all the other women in the room.

Last but not least, as I said I don't get out much, and in my day to day life I don't dress up, not even in the least, as I view clothes from the very functional point of view (same as for going out, really ), so I really enjoy and get a buzz from the transformation that happens from a daily-humdrum me to going-out me.

I hope I haven't wandered off topic too much? The relish with which I wrote this post is a serious indication I should get out more! :eek:

Chuchoter

Interesting topic. I dress up when I'm going out mostly to compete with my friends or to stand out a bit. Yeah sure its for attention, but not for male attention. I think its actually very rarely male attention for most people.

johnnyskeleton

Some of them do it purely because they want to see their friends and would feel underdressed going out in an old pair of jeans and a tee-shirt.

I mean, why do girls wear make up and clean clothes into work every day?

Jake LeMotta

Just to throw out one possible idea as to the motive for the whole - getting dolled up/looking suggestive/alluring etc.

I posted on another thread my opinion on the mechanics of the mating dynamic.

The role the female plays is to "lure" the male, as such.
The role the male plays is to come across as - I wouldn't say dominant - but I think as humans as oppose to animals, dominance is replaced by self assurance, something which is very evident to see in someones body language/demeanor etc.

So that's the attractive point for the female. (All just my opinion, I'm open to contradiction and I'd love to hear others point of view)


For the male, the attractive point is the alluring/sexy/temptress side to the female.
Now...

This is what I think.

Birds get dolled up to the last, amongst each other - perhaps they'll just spend a night amongst each other - no men in sight, to practice their alluring nature. To reassure themselves of the facet of their character.

There may even be an element of competition - I dunno, who's the best temptress?

There's certainly an element of competition among men when it comes to physical dominance - cause I guess that's dominance in it's purest form.
The animal instinct dominance.

But yeah, could that be the reason?
Just to simply practice that alluring nature as such.
Girls flirt all the time. Maybe not to attract, but it makes them feel good about themselves when they feel they are attracting.
Provides confidence etc, right?

Perhaps not necessarily men. Perhaps they can see other females acknowledging the fact that they look attractive.
Perhaps even there's a resentment between some, men included, that one person has developed the attractive side to their nature so - they're jealous of that.


I know for a fact some women will resent a man who is very "enticing" as she feels she does not have the allure to be able to attract him and therefore she feels maybe he will look down on her or ignore her so it's a defense almost to try and undermine him to prevent this being the case.

And I'm sure it works the other way around also.
How often to you hear a guy use disparaging words against a female you just know he finds attractive?

He obviously feels threatened by the fact that she has great allure, perhaps would go for a male with a greater sense of self assurance (self assurance IMO brought about by lifestyle, morals, attitude, overall life basically)
and therefore wish's to downcast her in an attempt to relieve his own insecurity.

********

Edit: Just to summarize all that; the point of being "dolled up" and so on is to accentuate one's femininity. The reactions this person will provoke makes them feel good and confident.

With men, the accentuation of masculinity and determining reactions from other men and women is also, I believe, as common place as with females.

This might sound like the most obvious statement in the world; but masculinity is the attractive point for females.
Femininity is the attractive point for males.

The most masculine will generally be more popular among his peers and with the opposing gender.
The same holds true for females.
IMO

Being aware of one's femin/masculinity (consciously or by instinct - one is probably more thorough) and the affect it has on those around us is a necessity to good social interaction.

..a statement I'm open to opinions on.

We can gauge our degree of femin/masculinity by the level of self assurance we feel. Our self assurance is in turn reflected in our body language/demeanor/"swagger", this is often the attractive point for others. i.e. self assurance a direct reflection of mascul/femininity.
Our awareness of this along the social interaction/mating dynamic leads to good social contact: back to point number 1

..more a question that a statement.

Jake LeMotta

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

I know for a fact some women will resent a man who is very "enticing" as she feels she does not have the allure to be able to attract him and therefore she feels maybe he will look down on her or ignore her so it's a defense almost to try and undermine him to prevent this being the case.

Hmmm - I think my hypothesis may have veered off course slightly in that last post, particularly with this comment.

However, in my defense, I do think I was touching on an element of something - a piece of the puzzle if you will - and the next piece is as follows:

The "turn on" or titillating, if you will, aspects for a female when it comes to finding a male attractive are as follows:

1) The affect she feels her looks/demeanor/allure are having on that male - this is the main factor. We'll say roughly 60%
(This relates to Scanlas The 2nd point number 1, made above)

Could be summarized as Vanity

2) The feeling of being loved, roughly 30%

3) The actual physical attraction, 10% or less.

However point number 3 may be deceiving in that physical attraction signifies for more than 10%, in that the female will be more titillated by being able to attract someone desirable.
Whether that comes in the form of being physically strong, confident, wealthy, in a position of power etc.

Now, in relation to my previous point - being in a woman's presence and not acknowledging to some degree her femininity or the fact that she is attractive will, more often than not, stimulate a stand-offish or slightly offensive attitude
i.e. not acknowledging she has at least some form of an attractive affect on you - particularly where the female herself feels that she is quite attractive.

Thus, the 60% that is a turn on, that stimulates good feeling towards the person in question, is completely nullified.

In the female mind, this may be mis-construed as the person - the male - in question being arrogant or haughty, and will be reciprocated with the according response (as above).
But, acknowledgment of female without acknowledgment of her attractive ability (conveyed through expression/body language/signals) will provoke much the same reaction IMO.

I don't think I need to point out the correlation between this and dressing provocatively or for attention.

Please bare in mind I'm simply hypothesizing here, not making a statement.
If anyone feels they can correct or augment that hypothesis then please feel free to do so.

Hobo Sapiens

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

Hmmm - I think my hypothesis may have veered off course slightly in that last post, particularly with this comment.

However, in my defense, I do think I was touching on an element of something - a piece of the puzzle if you will - and the next piece is as follows:

The "turn on" or titillating, if you will, aspects for a female when it comes to finding a male attractive are as follows:

1) The affect she feels her looks/demeanor/allure are having on that male - this is the main factor. We'll say roughly 60%
(This relates to Scanlas The 2nd point number 1, made above)

Could be summarized as Vanity

2) The feeling of being loved, roughly 30%

3) The actual physical attraction, 10% or less.

However point number 3 may be deceiving in that physical attraction signifies for more than 10%, in that the female will be more titillated by being able to attract someone desirable.
Whether that comes in the form of being physically strong, confident, wealthy, in a position of power etc.

Now, in relation to my previous point - being in a woman's presence and not acknowledging to some degree her femininity or the fact that she is attractive will, more often than not, stimulate a stand-offish or slightly offensive attitude
i.e. not acknowledging she has at least some form of an attractive affect on you - particularly where the female herself feels that she is quite attractive.

Thus, the 60% that is a turn on, that stimulates good feeling towards the person in question, is completely nullified.

In the female mind, this may be mis-construed as the person - the male - in question being arrogant or haughty, and will be reciprocated with the according response (as above).
But, acknowledgment of female without acknowledgment of her attractive ability (conveyed through expression/body language/signals) will provoke much the same reaction IMO.

I don't think I need to point out the correlation between this and dressing provocatively or for attention.

Please bare in mind I'm simply hypothesizing here, not making a statement.
If anyone feels they can correct or augment that hypothesis then please feel free to do so.

gR8T THRD!

Table Top Joe

Have to say i dont buy the "its for other girls" argument,its ultimately for male attention.......tis only natural

I was thinking about this recently and talking to a friend about it also.

I get more male attention when I don't dress up. When I'm dressed down with flat shoes/hair tied up etc, I get chatted up alot more. And yet I rarely go out without dressing "up". This would suggest (to me at least) that, when I do dress up, it's not to attract male attention.

Table Top Joe

Deleted User wrote: »

I was thinking about this recently and talking to a friend about it also.

I get more male attention when I don't dress up. When I'm dressed down with flat shoes/hair tied up etc, I get chatted up alot more. And yet I rarely go out without dressing "up". This would suggest (to me at least) that, when I do dress up, it's not to attract male attention.

Interesting.....but youre probably better looking when done up(....eh,that kinda came out wrong:o),as a guy id definitely go for a more casual/relaxed looking girl than the done up one on a night out



The more confident guy(the guy who most women would want)wouldnt be afraid of this(unlike me!),as someone asked a few posts back,why does looking good make you feel better? thats the bottom line here,looks are important in life,harsh but by God is it the truth

storm2811

When i go out i do dress up but it's not to pull any fellas,I go out to have a bitta fun so i dress up it's because it makes you feel better about yourself I think!

Also I think dressing up is just a part of heading out on a saturday,like i remember me and my friends grew up watching our sisters and their friends getting all dolled up to go out and we couldn't wait untill we were able to go out:p

Another thing though,why do people put up half naked pictures of themselves on facebook/bebo?Makes them look like absolute fools imo..

Table Top Joe

Why does it make you feel better to look good though? thats what i find interesting anyway,for me i like female attention and i know ill get it if i look good....well,its not like i have women falling over me or anything but there is a difference,whether its just in the work place or a night out if i look...decent,for want of a better word:D

storm2811

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Why does it make you feel better to look good though? thats what i find interesting anyway,for me i like female attention and i know ill get it if i look good....well,its not like i have women falling over me or anything but there is a difference,whether its just in the work place or a night out if i look...decent,for want of a better word:D

Well obviously you'd feel better if you looked well rather than if you looked like a mess?

Exile 1798

I think the argument that women don't dress up for male attention is a bit flawed, given that what is considered women's clothing, especially the "going out" range, is physically designed to enhance parts of the female figure considered attractive by men. Likewise makeup.

Are your girlfriends really impressed by your cleavage, legs, pretty mascara? If women dress up for women, then why does popular female fashion conform exactly to male desires?

RepublicanEagle

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Why does it make you feel better to look good though? thats what i find interesting anyway

Its human nature.

Jake LeMotta

Deleted User wrote: »

I was thinking about this recently and talking to a friend about it also.

I get more male attention when I don't dress up. When I'm dressed down with flat shoes/hair tied up etc, I get chatted up alot more. And yet I rarely go out without dressing "up". This would suggest (to me at least) that, when I do dress up, it's not to attract male attention.

If I may suggest something.

And in fact I'm sure your aware of this on some level already.

When you get dressed up and your stood about or whatever, keep your eyes relatively "up", as if your acknowledging in a neutral way - if that makes - those about you.

Try and notice how people regard you, the degree to which they do and the reciprocating signals you feel you might emit -
i.e. do you look away, or not meet their glance (acknowledgement suggesting unapproachability),
do you hold their look in a neutral fashion (potential to be approached),
do you glance towards them slighty (friendly acknowledgement - inviting).

Compare this to a time when your "dressed down", as you say.

I believe this process is something that is not entirely conscious for many of us unless were focusing on a particular person? (As well as the happy feeling we get when we do receive pleasant acknowledgment - ever notice yourself smiling)

But if you can, try and make yourself aware of it, at least for a short space of time, your answer as to why your approached more in the latter state should be forthcoming.

Edit: To be more specific, your getting approached more when "dressed down" has nothing to do with your dress but rather the vibe you give off, instigated by the variation in your own mentality when you feel your presenting yourself in a more attractive fashion - but that's just my speculation.

Jake LeMotta

Guy said this to me recently..

************

I'll let you in on a little secret: there's something called tease and denial. Chicks love to do that, its empowering, and they need to because its a man's world and they're just trying to save face against it all the time. All women, when it comes down to it, wanna be put in their place by a man.

If you do it the right away you can walk right up to chicks and just proposition them. Its worked plenty of times for guys. Chicks are stupid and insecure, plus they know we are stronger/smarter/better so we naturally have the upper hand. If a guy can't make use of any of that its his fault for not being able to puppet chicks' emotions.

**************

When I was finished laughing I sat down and had a think about it.

I know it comes across like he has misogynistic tendencies but I think there are elements of truth in the statement as regards the mentality.

TheDieHardFan1

SEDUCTION

1. YOUR BEST SELF

(a) HAIR

Go to a hair stylist and ask one of the guys (they are usually gay but so what?) who works there ask what hairstyle would suit you best. Once you get a hair makeover make sure that next time you go to your barber shop ask for that same cut.

(b) CLOTHES

Stop wearing tracksuits or baggy clothes or dressing in clothes that look like your mother bought them for you.

Go to a quality gents cloths shop and buy yourself a sports jacket, shirts, t-shirts, well fitting jeans or slacks and a good pair of brown and black leather shoes.

Choose clothes that fit you properly - the seams of your sleeves of your shirts and t-shirts should fit right on your shoulders while the seat of your pants should fit snug on your backside.

Get yourself an item of clothing that makes your stand out - a necklace or bracelet or a hat with a feather in it if you like - whatever looks cool and makes you stand out from other guys.

(c) POSTURE

When you stand or walk about imagine you have a hook on the top of your head attached to a rope and the rest of your body is dangling lose with all the weight in your body going right down into your feet.

Relax your shoulders and let your arms hang by your sides and stand with your legs spread and your toes pointing apart when you are in a stationary position.

When you sit do not slouch but sit up straight with your back in contact with the back of the chair.

Cross your legs when your sit or place your ankle across your knee when you are resting your legs.

Do not fidget or scratch your face or pick your nose.

Keep your hands on your lap and don't move them or pick up anything to play with it.

When you look around use your eyes and turn your head slowly.

Try to make all your movements as graceful as possible.

(d) ATTITUDE

Write down all the bad things about yourself on a sheet of paper.

Make a big long list.

Tear it up and throw it in the bin.

Next write down all the good things about yourself and tape it on the wall above your bed or wherever handy. Memorise them and repeat them over and over again in your head.

Put on some cool music and tell yourself that everytime you hum that cool music you are going to remember the list of good things you wrote down and memorised.

(e) Stop drinking too much, stop eating fast food, learn how to cook, eat more fresh fruit and vegetables and start jogging or go to the gym.

If you cant afford to go to the gym get an exercise book and learn how to do press ups and stomach crunches in your bedroom.

Shower every day and look clean and presentable.

2. HOW TO BEGIN

1. Get your phone and ring five random numbers and ask the person who answers if Mary can come to the phone.
The person might ask you "Who the f*ck is Mary?" You apologise for calling the wrong number. Ask the person that you are going to the movies and ask what movie would they recommend. The person will either hang up or they will have a conversation with you. When you have got a good movie recommendation, say thanks and hang up.

2. Start a conversation with 10 different people on the bus, in the shopping centre, at school or college or work or anywhere you else you like.

The conversation can be about any subject you want and instead of doing most of the talking yourself concentrate on listening to what the person says and try to find out as much as you possible can about who the person is, what job they do, what they like etc etc. Get used to being friendly, being a good listener and having fun talking to all kinds of people every single day.

3. Go to a shopping centre, walk the streets, take a stroll in the park, go to church, walk into a bar or a club etc and start the same conversations with women. Do not think about getting a phone number or trying to get laid. Instead be friendly and inquisitive. After you have spoken to her for a few minutes excuse yourself and say goodbye. Get used to talking to women in normal social situations.

4. Take up hobbies like sports or do something creative like art, start reading the newspapers, watch women's shows on TV, join a book club at your local library, take up salsa classes etc etc. These are great ways to improve your mind, fill in the time and get to make friends and meet people.

3. SARGING

Sarging is making the approach which can be (a) Direct or (b) Indirect.

(a) DIRECT

This involves walking directly up to a beautiful woman and telling her directly that you are attracted to her.
This is high risk because she might reject you right away and make you feel and look like a fool if you are awkward or uncomfortable. However if you DO NOT make the approach you are 100% garanteed that she will not get together with you.

(b) INDIRECT

An indirect approach is simply the same friendly approach you have been making to all the strangers who you have already got used to talking every day before you started talking to beautiful girls you were attracted to.

Stand at right angles to her with the toes of your shoes pointing away.

If she is seated, pull out a chair and sit down next to her immediately.

There is no pressure on you or her because it is not obvious that you are interested in her sexually.

You are just a normal guy having a normal conversation with a girl.

You don't have to think about what you are going to say.

It just comes naturally because you saw the girl and you approached within 3 secs (do not hesitate about approaching or else she will think you are a weirdo who wants something sexual right away).

Do not use a chat up line or some sort of canned material you read about on the internet as an approach (canned material you might used later on).

You can start to talk about the weather, the traffic, the latest news about your favourite celebrities or movies etc. Try being original.

It really doesn't matter what sort of conversation you start as long as you start one.

4. CREATING COMFORT

This process begins as soon as the first opening conversation you started begins to flag.

Start asking the girl about herself and keep the conversation focused on her situation.

Don't be afraid to use a little humour and mock her a little.

Example:

You: So what brings you down her to the shopping centre? Your father needs a box of nails from the hardware section but you got all distracted by all the advertisements for new shoes am I right? Daddy is going to be waiting a while isn't he?

Her: (Laughs) No I'm just hanging out with my friends, we might try on some clothes, get something to eat and then see a movie.

Now what do you do?

Simple. You have just learned she has friends, she likes clothes, she likes food and she likes movies.

These are called "hooks." And everytime a girl talks she is giving out these hooks that give you a chance to keep the conversation going.

You can now ask her about her friends - how they all met, who is her best friend, have her friends ever done something loyal or mean to her etc etc

You can get her to talk about her taste in clothes - does she likes jeans or dresses, does she like make up, who is her favourite designer, what does she like to wear when she goes out etc etc.

You can ask her about her favourite food, does she like to cook, did she every burn down the kitchen or did she ever get food poisoning etc etc

You can ask her about her favourite movies, does she like action movies or romances or comedies, does she like Brad Pitt or Matt Damon etc etc.

Basically you can start a conversation and keep it going by getting the girl to talk about herself and then shut up and listen to her.

If you are not interested at least act like you are interested.

The girl will want to talk to you and get you to listen to her, to like her and will look for your approval.

Eventually after a few minutes of her talking and you listening she will realise she doesn't even know your name or anything about you.

At that point she will ask you questions about yourself.

If you are talking to a woman do not talk about the following subjects:

Religion
Violence
Politics
Racism
Sexism

Avoid anything controversial, talk as little as possible about yourself, do not tell her anything rude or embarrasing.

Do not tell her you are a failure with women or you have no friends if that is true.

Try to make her believe she is talking to a guy who likes himself, who is having a fun time and is worth hanging out with.

Tell her what plans you have that evening, that you are meeting friends and tell her funny stories about yourself that will make her laugh but leave a lot of mystery.


5. SEDUCTION

After a girl has been talking to you for more than 10 to 20 minutes it is time to start seducing her.

As you talk to her you should touch her.

When you are talking to people (not just with women) have your arms bent at the elbow and make gestures with your hands as you talk.

That way you can hold their attention.

As you talk to people do not be afraid to touch them lightly on the arm when you both agree on something, when you both find you have shared experience or when you make them laugh etc

Maintain eye contact at all times with a girl and when you touch her lightly on the arm do not look at the position of your hand but maintain eye contact.

Because you are making gestures with your hands, she will barely notice that you touched her.

As you and the girl continue to talk escalate gradually - start off by touching her a few times on the arm, then escalate to touching her on the shoulder.

If she has a ring, ask her about it, which gives you the excuse to hold her hand and give it a gentle squeeze. If she squeezes back or seems to ignore the fact that you are still holding her hand, it means that she is attracted to you.

If she plays with her hair, scratches her neck, flushes, laughs too hard at your jokes and has a kind of dreamy look in her eyes when she looks at you and she touches you back when you touch her, then she is attracted to you.

When she crosses her legs, you should cross your legs, when she takes a sip from her cup, you take a sip from your cup.

You can stimulate arousal by using "weasel phrases" - these are hidden phrases in your speech that turn her on.

EXAMPLE 1:

You: "You know, I saw the most interesting show on the Discovery Channel last night. They were interviewing people who make their living designing attractions for amusement parks like Magic Mountain and Disneyland and Universal Studios. Wouldn't that be a cool way to make a living?"

Her: "Yeah! That sounds so interesting."

You: "Well, anyway, they were talking about the elements that make up the ideal attraction.They said there are 3 parts to the ideal attraction. First, when you EXPERIENCE the ideal attraction, you FEEL A STATE OF HIGH AROUSAL. The ideal attraction makes your heart beat faster, and your breathing gets faster and you just FEEL THAT AMAZING RUSH all over."

Her: "Yeah!"

You: "And then they said that another part to an ideal attraction is - it's fascinating. You just FEEL SO ENTHRALLED that you want to TAKE THIS RIDE (point to your d*ck!) multiple times; as soon as you GET OFF you want to GET BACK ON again."

Her: "Yeah!"

You: "And they said, finally, the most important element, is a sense of overall safety. That even though the attraction make look a little dangerous, you're CERTAIN YOU'RE SAFE... you FEEL SAFE because you realise nothing bad can really happen, so that allows you to FEEL TOTALLY FREE to LET GO AND ENJOY THAT GREAT AROUSAL again and again and again. Can you (squeeze her hand) feel _that_... is pretty close to the way it is?"

Her: "Oooh...yeah!!"

Ok, this pattern has been reported to make women cum, out of the blue, just by reciting it to them Usually though, after you're done with your description, the girl says with a sly smile "Sounded more like having sex" Don't be shocked, don't stiffen up - for she loved it regardless Or rather... exactly because of that And if nothing else comes to mind, you can answer with a confused look at first and then a "Well... now that you mention it".

You: "When you imagine how much fun it is to ride a roller coaster or any other kind of amusement park ride .. Its like as that ride is climbing up and up, you can feel your heart pounding with excitement, you feel you're breathing faster and faster, sometimes you're even gasping and panting you feel the blood rushing through every part of your body and as that excitement and tension is building and building, you reach the top of the ride and then as it crests, you just release it in a flood of excitement, and sometimes you're screaming you're so turned on.

And you know, afterwards I thought to myself, isn't that the totally accurate description of your ideal attraction to another person. You know that kind of wonderful click right there (right in the center of who you are) that just makes you feel totally drawn to this person and on one hand you feel totally safe and totally comfortable like you were meant to know them and as if you've known them forever."

EXAMPLE 2:

This pattern is best when you want to avoid the LJBF (Let's just be friends) technique that girls use all the time to blow guys out.

"I don't know if you'd find me really attractive or that I might be somebody that you can feel really close to... because it doesn't happen with just anyone... you know what I mean don't you? That feeling of closeness that allows you to let go and really be with someone... I'm not sure we could have that... But we might have fun finding out and the very least we might be friends... But it is nice isn't it? I mean when that does happen and you find yourself having all those feelings... inside. You know how that feels don't you? I mean when was the last time you felt that way? Really intense... inside... and down below… and as you think about it have you noticed you can get some of those feelings back now! But you know I find you really attractive but I don't want you to sleep with me... I'm not even going to ask you... because its your decision... and any way I'm not sure you can make me want you... but its nice to think about it isn't it? And I'm sure you'll find what you really want... eventually but until then we can have some kind of closeness… because I don't want to sleep with anyone who doesn't really want to sleep with me... 100%. But we can be friends can't we?"

This stuff sounds stupid because guys don't talk like this to other guys.

Remember however that girls talk about their feelings and emotions a whole lot more.

You see guys love porn and they get turned on by the sight of naked women.

Girls are not so much interested in good looking guys as guys who turn them on emotionally.

This is why these patterns and are extremely powerful and will get a woman wet right there and then.


6. GOING FOR THE KILL

This is the part that can screw up all the hard work you have been doing.

At some point you are going to have to get the girl's number. If you have met her in the day time she will probably be going to work or meeting friends or some other stuff so after you made a friendly interruption to her day she must be going.

You must give her a reason to see you again and that is where the situation based conversation comes in which oils the number request nicely.

If you have found out she likes movies, fashion, animals, stamp collecting etc etc you can mention that cinema where the movie is showing, the zoo where you saw the Siberian Tiger or the World Stamp Collecting Convention that you and her could both go and see.

You arrange to go out and you get her number.

Do not ask "Can I have your number?"

Instead say "You should give me your number" which her unconscious mind will interpret as a command.

Do not ask "Can I buy you a drink?"

Instead say "By me a drink and I'll see about buying you one if you prove to me that you are a nice girl."

Do not ask "Do you want to go see a movie?" or "Do you want to go to a fancy restaurant?"

Instead say "We should get together and see a movie" or "There's this fancy restaurant I know where we should go tonight."

By telling her what you are doing you come across as a man with a plan.

If you ask you come across as a wuss.

If you have got her number and you have arranged to go out it is time to get a kiss.

If she does not show she is ready yet you should talk some more and continue the touching I already described.

If you touch her earring rings or she lets you put your hands in her hair, you can kiss her.

What you do is:

(a) run the outside of your finger down and across her cheek to her chin while maintaining eye contact and just kiss her.

(b) when you notice she is giving you a dreamy look, tell her "You are thinking about kissing me."

This has three possible outcomes:

(1) If she says "No." Tell her "Well you looked like you were" and then move in for the kiss.

(2) If she says "Yes" just kiss her right away.

(3) If she says "Maybe" say "Let's find out" and kiss her.

If you use (b) you are almost 100% garanteed to get a kiss.

7. SEX

After you kiss a girl some girls will want to have sex with you right away.

Most will need to meet you for a date.

If you have followed each step correctly without jumping ahead it is very likely you will get a date and she will not stand you up.

If she turns up it means she is attracted to you.

Make sure the date is at night which suggests romance.

If you watch a movie or take her to dinner repeat the same techniques of conversation and touching that I already explained in the previous sections when you talk together.

On average it takes about 7 hours (divided over a few days and dates) from the first approach to having sex with a girl.

When you have left the movie theatre or restaurant or bar talk to her as you lead to her to the cab or the bus or up the street.

Do not reason with her or she will change her mind about sex.

Use euphemisms "Let's listen to some music" or "Stay just a little while for a drink or a coffee" or "You gotta see my cat doing backflips in my backyard."

When you arrive in the house, let her use the toilet while you put some music on and pour some wine.

Let her sit on the bed and keep your distance before starting the conversation again and touching her followed by some kissing.

When she let's you kiss, become more passionate and lay her down on the bed.

Start by kissing her face and neck, then kissing her neck, then touch her boobs and run her hands over her belly and ass.

Unhook her bra underneath her top before you take off her top. As soon as you get her top off starting sucking her breasts.

Touch her between the legs from behind through her clothing before taking them off.

Stick your tongue in her belly button as you take off her panties and give her oral sex straight away.

After that it has gone beyond the point of return and she will completely surrender to sex even if she is the most obedient preacher's daughter.

If at any time she tells you to stop, simply go back one step or two and start all over again taking it gently and slowly.

That's it.

That's how it is done.

Jake LeMotta

TheDieHardFan1 wrote: »

SEDUCTION

1. YOUR BEST SELF

(a) HAIR

Go to a hair stylist and ask one of the guys (they are usually gay but so what?) who works there ask what hairstyle would suit you best. Once you get a hair makeover make sure that next time you go to your barber shop ask for that same cut.

(b) CLOTHES

Stop wearing tracksuits or baggy clothes or dressing in clothes that look like your mother bought them for you.

Go to a quality gents cloths shop and buy yourself a sports jacket, shirts, t-shirts, well fitting jeans or slacks and a good pair of brown and black leather shoes.

Choose clothes that fit you properly - the seams of your sleeves of your shirts and t-shirts should fit right on your shoulders while the seat of your pants should fit snug on your backside.

Get yourself an item of clothing that makes your stand out - a necklace or bracelet or a hat with a feather in it if you like - whatever looks cool and makes you stand out from other guys.

(c) POSTURE

When you stand or walk about imagine you have a hook on the top of your head attached to a rope and the rest of your body is dangling lose with all the weight in your body going right down into your feet.

Relax your shoulders and let your arms hang by your sides and stand with your legs spread and your toes pointing apart when you are in a stationary position.

When you sit do not slouch but sit up straight with your back in contact with the back of the chair.

Cross your legs when your sit or place your ankle across your knee when you are resting your legs.

Do not fidget or scratch your face or pick your nose.

Keep your hands on your lap and don't move them or pick up anything to play with it.

When you look around use your eyes and turn your head slowly.

Try to make all your movements as graceful as possible.

(d) ATTITUDE

Write down all the bad things about yourself on a sheet of paper.

Make a big long list.

Tear it up and throw it in the bin.

Next write down all the good things about yourself and tape it on the wall above your bed or wherever handy. Memorise them and repeat them over and over again in your head.

Put on some cool music and tell yourself that everytime you hum that cool music you are going to remember the list of good things you wrote down and memorised.

(e) Stop drinking too much, stop eating fast food, learn how to cook, eat more fresh fruit and vegetables and start jogging or go to the gym.

If you cant afford to go to the gym get an exercise book and learn how to do press ups and stomach crunches in your bedroom.

Shower every day and look clean and presentable.

2. HOW TO BEGIN

1. Get your phone and ring five random numbers and ask the person who answers if Mary can come to the phone.
The person might ask you "Who the f*ck is Mary?" You apologise for calling the wrong number. Ask the person that you are going to the movies and ask what movie would they recommend. The person will either hang up or they will have a conversation with you. When you have got a good movie recommendation, say thanks and hang up.

2. Start a conversation with 10 different people on the bus, in the shopping centre, at school or college or work or anywhere you else you like.

The conversation can be about any subject you want and instead of doing most of the talking yourself concentrate on listening to what the person says and try to find out as much as you possible can about who the person is, what job they do, what they like etc etc. Get used to being friendly, being a good listener and having fun talking to all kinds of people every single day.

3. Go to a shopping centre, walk the streets, take a stroll in the park, go to church, walk into a bar or a club etc and start the same conversations with women. Do not think about getting a phone number or trying to get laid. Instead be friendly and inquisitive. After you have spoken to her for a few minutes excuse yourself and say goodbye. Get used to talking to women in normal social situations.

4. Take up hobbies like sports or do something creative like art, start reading the newspapers, watch women's shows on TV, join a book club at your local library, take up salsa classes etc etc. These are great ways to improve your mind, fill in the time and get to make friends and meet people.

3. SARGING

Sarging is making the approach which can be (a) Direct or (b) Indirect.

(a) DIRECT

This involves walking directly up to a beautiful woman and telling her directly that you are attracted to her.
This is high risk because she might reject you right away and make you feel and look like a fool if you are awkward or uncomfortable. However if you DO NOT make the approach you are 100% garanteed that she will not get together with you.

(b) INDIRECT

An indirect approach is simply the same friendly approach you have been making to all the strangers who you have already got used to talking every day before you started talking to beautiful girls you were attracted to.

Stand at right angles to her with the toes of your shoes pointing away.

If she is seated, pull out a chair and sit down next to her immediately.

There is no pressure on you or her because it is not obvious that you are interested in her sexually.

You are just a normal guy having a normal conversation with a girl.

You don't have to think about what you are going to say.

It just comes naturally because you saw the girl and you approached within 3 secs (do not hesitate about approaching or else she will think you are a weirdo who wants something sexual right away).

Do not use a chat up line or some sort of canned material you read about on the internet as an approach (canned material you might used later on).

You can start to talk about the weather, the traffic, the latest news about your favourite celebrities or movies etc. Try being original.

It really doesn't matter what sort of conversation you start as long as you start one.

4. CREATING COMFORT

This process begins as soon as the first opening conversation you started begins to flag.

Start asking the girl about herself and keep the conversation focused on her situation.

Don't be afraid to use a little humour and mock her a little.

Example:

You: So what brings you down her to the shopping centre? Your father needs a box of nails from the hardware section but you got all distracted by all the advertisements for new shoes am I right? Daddy is going to be waiting a while isn't he?

Her: (Laughs) No I'm just hanging out with my friends, we might try on some clothes, get something to eat and then see a movie.

Now what do you do?

Simple. You have just learned she has friends, she likes clothes, she likes food and she likes movies.

These are called "hooks." And everytime a girl talks she is giving out these hooks that give you a chance to keep the conversation going.

You can now ask her about her friends - how they all met, who is her best friend, have her friends ever done something loyal or mean to her etc etc

You can get her to talk about her taste in clothes - does she likes jeans or dresses, does she like make up, who is her favourite designer, what does she like to wear when she goes out etc etc.

You can ask her about her favourite food, does she like to cook, did she every burn down the kitchen or did she ever get food poisoning etc etc

You can ask her about her favourite movies, does she like action movies or romances or comedies, does she like Brad Pitt or Matt Damon etc etc.

Basically you can start a conversation and keep it going by getting the girl to talk about herself and then shut up and listen to her.

If you are not interested at least act like you are interested.

The girl will want to talk to you and get you to listen to her, to like her and will look for your approval.

Eventually after a few minutes of her talking and you listening she will realise she doesn't even know your name or anything about you.

At that point she will ask you questions about yourself.

If you are talking to a woman do not talk about the following subjects:

Religion
Violence
Politics
Racism
Sexism

Avoid anything controversial, talk as little as possible about yourself, do not tell her anything rude or embarrasing.

Do not tell her you are a failure with women or you have no friends if that is true.

Try to make her believe she is talking to a guy who likes himself, who is having a fun time and is worth hanging out with.

Tell her what plans you have that evening, that you are meeting friends and tell her funny stories about yourself that will make her laugh but leave a lot of mystery.


5. SEDUCTION

After a girl has been talking to you for more than 10 to 20 minutes it is time to start seducing her.

As you talk to her you should touch her.

When you are talking to people (not just with women) have your arms bent at the elbow and make gestures with your hands as you talk.

That way you can hold their attention.

As you talk to people do not be afraid to touch them lightly on the arm when you both agree on something, when you both find you have shared experience or when you make them laugh etc

Maintain eye contact at all times with a girl and when you touch her lightly on the arm do not look at the position of your hand but maintain eye contact.

Because you are making gestures with your hands, she will barely notice that you touched her.

As you and the girl continue to talk escalate gradually - start off by touching her a few times on the arm, then escalate to touching her on the shoulder.

If she has a ring, ask her about it, which gives you the excuse to hold her hand and give it a gentle squeeze. If she squeezes back or seems to ignore the fact that you are still holding her hand, it means that she is attracted to you.

If she plays with her hair, scratches her neck, flushes, laughs too hard at your jokes and has a kind of dreamy look in her eyes when she looks at you and she touches you back when you touch her, then she is attracted to you.

When she crosses her legs, you should cross your legs, when she takes a sip from her cup, you take a sip from your cup.

You can stimulate arousal by using "weasel phrases" - these are hidden phrases in your speech that turn her on.

EXAMPLE 1:

You: "You know, I saw the most interesting show on the Discovery Channel last night. They were interviewing people who make their living designing attractions for amusement parks like Magic Mountain and Disneyland and Universal Studios. Wouldn't that be a cool way to make a living?"

Her: "Yeah! That sounds so interesting."

You: "Well, anyway, they were talking about the elements that make up the ideal attraction.They said there are 3 parts to the ideal attraction. First, when you EXPERIENCE the ideal attraction, you FEEL A STATE OF HIGH AROUSAL. The ideal attraction makes your heart beat faster, and your breathing gets faster and you just FEEL THAT AMAZING RUSH all over."

Her: "Yeah!"

You: "And then they said that another part to an ideal attraction is - it's fascinating. You just FEEL SO ENTHRALLED that you want to TAKE THIS RIDE (point to your d*ck!) multiple times; as soon as you GET OFF you want to GET BACK ON again."

Her: "Yeah!"

You: "And they said, finally, the most important element, is a sense of overall safety. That even though the attraction make look a little dangerous, you're CERTAIN YOU'RE SAFE... you FEEL SAFE because you realise nothing bad can really happen, so that allows you to FEEL TOTALLY FREE to LET GO AND ENJOY THAT GREAT AROUSAL again and again and again. Can you (squeeze her hand) feel _that_... is pretty close to the way it is?"

Her: "Oooh...yeah!!"

Ok, this pattern has been reported to make women cum, out of the blue, just by reciting it to them Usually though, after you're done with your description, the girl says with a sly smile "Sounded more like having sex" Don't be shocked, don't stiffen up - for she loved it regardless Or rather... exactly because of that And if nothing else comes to mind, you can answer with a confused look at first and then a "Well... now that you mention it".

You: "When you imagine how much fun it is to ride a roller coaster or any other kind of amusement park ride .. Its like as that ride is climbing up and up, you can feel your heart pounding with excitement, you feel you're breathing faster and faster, sometimes you're even gasping and panting you feel the blood rushing through every part of your body and as that excitement and tension is building and building, you reach the top of the ride and then as it crests, you just release it in a flood of excitement, and sometimes you're screaming you're so turned on.

And you know, afterwards I thought to myself, isn't that the totally accurate description of your ideal attraction to another person. You know that kind of wonderful click right there (right in the center of who you are) that just makes you feel totally drawn to this person and on one hand you feel totally safe and totally comfortable like you were meant to know them and as if you've known them forever."

EXAMPLE 2:

This pattern is best when you want to avoid the LJBF (Let's just be friends) technique that girls use all the time to blow guys out.

"I don't know if you'd find me really attractive or that I might be somebody that you can feel really close to... because it doesn't happen with just anyone... you know what I mean don't you? That feeling of closeness that allows you to let go and really be with someone... I'm not sure we could have that... But we might have fun finding out and the very least we might be friends... But it is nice isn't it? I mean when that does happen and you find yourself having all those feelings... inside. You know how that feels don't you? I mean when was the last time you felt that way? Really intense... inside... and down below… and as you think about it have you noticed you can get some of those feelings back now! But you know I find you really attractive but I don't want you to sleep with me... I'm not even going to ask you... because its your decision... and any way I'm not sure you can make me want you... but its nice to think about it isn't it? And I'm sure you'll find what you really want... eventually but until then we can have some kind of closeness… because I don't want to sleep with anyone who doesn't really want to sleep with me... 100%. But we can be friends can't we?"

This stuff sounds stupid because guys don't talk like this to other guys.

Remember however that girls talk about their feelings and emotions a whole lot more.

You see guys love porn and they get turned on by the sight of naked women.

Girls are not so much interested in good looking guys as guys who turn them on emotionally.

This is why these patterns and are extremely powerful and will get a woman wet right there and then.


6. GOING FOR THE KILL

This is the part that can screw up all the hard work you have been doing.

At some point you are going to have to get the girl's number. If you have met her in the day time she will probably be going to work or meeting friends or some other stuff so after you made a friendly interruption to her day she must be going.

You must give her a reason to see you again and that is where the situation based conversation comes in which oils the number request nicely.

If you have found out she likes movies, fashion, animals, stamp collecting etc etc you can mention that cinema where the movie is showing, the zoo where you saw the Siberian Tiger or the World Stamp Collecting Convention that you and her could both go and see.

You arrange to go out and you get her number.

Do not ask "Can I have your number?"

Instead say "You should give me your number" which her unconscious mind will interpret as a command.

Do not ask "Can I buy you a drink?"

Instead say "By me a drink and I'll see about buying you one if you prove to me that you are a nice girl."

Do not ask "Do you want to go see a movie?" or "Do you want to go to a fancy restaurant?"

Instead say "We should get together and see a movie" or "There's this fancy restaurant I know where we should go tonight."

By telling her what you are doing you come across as a man with a plan.

If you ask you come across as a wuss.

If you have got her number and you have arranged to go out it is time to get a kiss.

If she does not show she is ready yet you should talk some more and continue the touching I already described.

If you touch her earring rings or she lets you put your hands in her hair, you can kiss her.

What you do is:

(a) run the outside of your finger down and across her cheek to her chin while maintaining eye contact and just kiss her.

(b) when you notice she is giving you a dreamy look, tell her "You are thinking about kissing me."

This has three possible outcomes:

(1) If she says "No." Tell her "Well you looked like you were" and then move in for the kiss.

(2) If she says "Yes" just kiss her right away.

(3) If she says "Maybe" say "Let's find out" and kiss her.

If you use (b) you are almost 100% garanteed to get a kiss.

7. SEX

After you kiss a girl some girls will want to have sex with you right away.

Most will need to meet you for a date.

If you have followed each step correctly without jumping ahead it is very likely you will get a date and she will not stand you up.

If she turns up it means she is attracted to you.

Make sure the date is at night which suggests romance.

If you watch a movie or take her to dinner repeat the same techniques of conversation and touching that I already explained in the previous sections when you talk together.

On average it takes about 7 hours (divided over a few days and dates) from the first approach to having sex with a girl.

When you have left the movie theatre or restaurant or bar talk to her as you lead to her to the cab or the bus or up the street.

Do not reason with her or she will change her mind about sex.

Use euphemisms "Let's listen to some music" or "Stay just a little while for a drink or a coffee" or "You gotta see my cat doing backflips in my backyard."

When you arrive in the house, let her use the toilet while you put some music on and pour some wine.

Let her sit on the bed and keep your distance before starting the conversation again and touching her followed by some kissing.

When she let's you kiss, become more passionate and lay her down on the bed.

Start by kissing her face and neck, then kissing her neck, then touch her boobs and run her hands over her belly and ass.

Unhook her bra underneath her top before you take off her top. As soon as you get her top off starting sucking her breasts.

Touch her between the legs from behind through her clothing before taking them off.

Stick your tongue in her belly button as you take off her panties and give her oral sex straight away.

After that it has gone beyond the point of return and she will completely surrender to sex even if she is the most obedient preacher's daughter.

If at any time she tells you to stop, simply go back one step or two and start all over again taking it gently and slowly.

That's it.

That's how it is done.

I lol'd, even if I lol'd at like, my own expense.

TheDieHardFan1

I lol'd, even if I lol'd at like, my own expense.

Hope you learned something.

Wibbs

Yea don't believe the usual PUA guff. Old news mate. BS wrapped up in another layer of BS with a teeny tiny kernel of truth in the very centre and all wrapped in a nice little earner aimed at guys sitting home at night feverishly fiddling.

m@cc@

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea don't believe the usual PUA guff. Old news mate. BS wrapped up in another layer of BS with a teeny tiny kernel of truth in the very centre and all wrapped in a nice little earner aimed at guys sitting home at night feverishly fiddling.

I wouldn't take it as gospel but there's lots of good points in there. Have a bit of pride in yourself and the confidence will flow from there. Practice talking to women and eventually it'll be like riding a bike (pardon the phrase).

Jake LeMotta

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea don't believe the usual PUA guff. Old news mate. BS wrapped up in another layer of BS with a teeny tiny kernel of truth in the very centre and all wrapped in a nice little earner aimed at guys sitting home at night feverishly fiddling.

More like a golden nugget bro.

Getting dressed up for attention is one thing.
I believe there is truth in the line of thought that it is a power thing to a certain degree.

I'm not saying all females who but on a bit of make up and a dress are power hungry/want to have dominance over all males or something.
But having the affect where having a male look upon them with desire to the point where he becomes almost submissive is definitely a stimulant for good feeling - or that's how it strikes me at least.

The better a girl looks, the more accentuated her femininity, the more attractive she is, the more control she will have over a male.

Works the other way around too I'm sure - except for males, the accentuation of masculinity occurs more though confidence and it's projection as oppose to accentuation of physical features.

johnnyskeleton

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea don't believe the usual PUA guff. Old news mate. BS wrapped up in another layer of BS with a teeny tiny kernel of truth in the very centre and all wrapped in a nice little earner aimed at guys sitting home at night feverishly fiddling.

Or at least those guys sitting home at night feverishly fiddling who have not yet discovered the glories of internet pornography.

jgr12

TheDieHardFan1 wrote: »

Put on some cool music and tell yourself that everytime you hum that cool music you are going to remember the list of good things you wrote down and memorised.

Anybody else think of that scene in Father Ted with Tommy Tiernan and the Shaft Music

Jake LeMotta

I have a new theory - surrounding the whole "girls and nightclubs"......thing.

If you had say, Enrique Englasious (is that how you spell his name), or maybe not him - we're talking some unbelievable stud anyway, and he goes into a nightclub.

In theory, he should be able to have any girl in the place right?
Wrong!

I guess there's a natural dynamic that works during the hooking up stage and obviously, it has to feel natural.
So if one is to go along with what feels natural, it would make sense that it also feels comfortable.

And fact of the matter is, if one persons confidence is, to some degree, greater than the others, they won't be comfortable around that person - they may even feel intimidated by that person - and the "hooking up" won't occur naturally.
It may be possible to force it, but I would speculate the relationship would not be a lasting one.. ?

There's also a power thing that goes on among individuals.
Between guys of course.
But between girls and guys also.
I would guess that it's down to the confidence - but say you have a very confident person, male or female - surrounded by less confident persons, say the opposing gender to the former - those of a lesser self belief will often try and undermine the latter.

In the nightclub situation, for a girl towards a guy say, this would often take the form of a dismissive patronizing attitude, or "bitchiness".
I believe it's probably an attempt to hide their intimidation they feel toward that person, or perhaps a way to mask the feeling of gravity they feel toward them.

There we go, another piece of the puzzle

**
Cliff: Confidence defines compatibility.

JMN

looksee wrote: »

The girls go out in groups, and the dressing is to impress each other.

^^^^^^^

Jake LeMotta

JMN wrote: »

Originally Posted by looksee
The girls go out in groups, and the dressing is to impress each other.

^^^^^^^

We've been through that bro

But it's always good for a laugh when someone repeats it.

minister poxbottle

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

First of all, I just want to point out this is a serious thread and I'm not trying to take the piss; for those who may find the title misleading.

My question is this.
Every night lots of girls spend hours in their rooms getting made up and dressed up and then go out to nightclubs and bars and flaunt themselves and project, I think what you might describe as, a sexually suggestive persona. Perhaps there's a more correct description?
But you get the idea.

My question is; are they all looking to "score", so to speak.
Are they dressing up like this and flaunting themselves so, to try and attract the "alpha male", the guy of their dreams or something?
Are they just doing it to reassure themselves of their femininity by having guys flirt with them?
Just to have some fun and if some nights they happen to meet a nice dude, they might be with him, or they might want to make sure he's on for something more serious first?

Maybe it depends on the girl right?

But in general?
Whats your opinion?

Do you go to clubs? if so why?

Jake LeMotta

There was a debate on another forum, as regards what's the real motive for guys when they lift weights.

There were several differing answers but the main ones were;
1) Develop athletic ability which can be applied to one's sport
2) Be strong and learn discipline, feel good in oneself/confidence and stay in shape
3) Keep the crazy away
4) Be able to lift heavier weights than over sized bodybuilders and then laugh at them.

But there was a general undertone that the root of the motive, whether it be to be confident, strong, sane, whatever - the motive behind that motive as such, was to be more attractive for the opposite sex.

And I think that's what we have seen in this thread also.
Girls dress up and go out and dance and flaunt and what not - and we hear comments such as,
"I do it for myself - for my own confidence"
"It's the competitive edge between females"
"Like getting together with my friends, dressing up, having a chat etc"
"We do it to impress each other"

(How many of them comments are relative to the former?)

But, when we consider the motive behind those motives..
Why do you want to be confident - why is there a competitive edge - wanting to feel good in oneself.

IMO, the real motive, behind all of these things, is to impress/attract/appear desirable to, the opposite sex.
I'm coming to the conclusion that that is simply how we are hardwired as humans - and that our motives will tend to stem mainly from this fact, or at least, their initiation will begin with this...

After all, reproduction I guess - passing on of the genes - is arguably the most important reason for our existence.
(But we'll try not to go off on a tangent here..)

**
Lastly - I'm a total combat sports nerd.
So I'm gonna give an example.

This guy

who was formerly ranked as the No.1 fighter in the world in his weight class, openly acknowledged in an interview that his initial inception into martial arts was brought about because he felt he was too ugly, had no confidence and he wanted to impress the opposite sex.

Overature

its the penguins i tell you

caseyann

looksee wrote: »

The girls go out in groups, and the dressing is to impress each other.

Via peer pressure and fashion pressure,i would say dressing to best their friends.
And taught over the years by how males interact with them that its all about been shallow.

smelltheglove

As a former wild child girl can I say that vanity could be a reason....? For me I always dressed up going out, I didnt pal with many girls, mostly lads, I didnt go out to pull a strange fella, sometimes I might have had my eye on someone but yes I wanted to stand out from the crowd and vanity probably was a reason for why I dressed the way I did and actually I mostly told fellas where to go when they tried it on in a club, in fact I did enjoy that which is where some people here may refer to the power a girl can have over a guy. I rarely went out with fellas I met at a club I can only think of one or two boyfriends I met in clubs, I did marry the last one though. And I definitely did not go out dressed to kill for a one night stand, that was a big no no in my books.

On the other hand I know girls that would go out with a gang of girls and they would be trying to outdo each other, youd hear the bitchy oh my god what is she wearing comments, one of the reasons why I preferred palling with the lads.

Jake LeMotta

smelltheglove wrote: »

As a former wild child girl can I say that vanity could be a reason....? For me I always dressed up going out, I didnt pal with many girls, mostly lads, I didnt go out to pull a strange fella, sometimes I might have had my eye on someone but yes I wanted to stand out from the crowd and vanity probably was a reason for why I dressed the way I did and actually I mostly told fellas where to go when they tried it on in a club, in fact I did enjoy that which is where some people here may refer to the power a girl can have over a guy. I rarely went out with fellas I met at a club I can only think of one or two boyfriends I met in clubs, I did marry the last one though. And I definitely did not go out dressed to kill for a one night stand, that was a big no no in my books.

On the other hand I know girls that would go out with a gang of girls and they would be trying to outdo each other, youd hear the bitchy oh my god what is she wearing comments, one of the reasons why I preferred palling with the lads.

Good honest reply.

Would it be fair to say that the bolded text above is true with a lot of girls.
As you pointed out, the vanity thing, it's like an ego boost really is what the girl wants out of it - which is totally fair enough - provided it's done in reasonably considerate fashion.
That is, not leading a guy on till he makes a move and then telling him to f**k off or something along those lines.

I guess if you look good, you want to be admired - and you gotta get your confidence from somewhere.

As a guy - well, as can be seen from my previous post, a lot of guys take their confidence from being "macho" (and I don't mean that in a condescending way) to a certain extent or doing something constructive, having faith in their own abilities, overcoming challenges.
Gleaning from your post, it appears a lot of girls take confidence from being admired for looking well.

Perhaps that confidence is then transferred into more everyday situations.
Like if you meet a guy you like, you have confidence in the fact that you look good, to approach him or some such..

Again, same with guys.
I don't know many girls that are impressed with how many kg's a guy can lift in the gym, but it's the confidence he gets from being able to do that, that personal self belief, that lends to his confidence when it comes to interacting socially in situations that might be slightly intimidating - i.e. chatting up girls.

Jake LeMotta

smelltheglove wrote: »

As a former wild child girl can I say that vanity could be a reason....? For me I always dressed up going out, I didnt pal with many girls, mostly lads, I didnt go out to pull a strange fella, sometimes I might have had my eye on someone but yes I wanted to stand out from the crowd and vanity probably was a reason for why I dressed the way I did and actually I mostly told fellas where to go when they tried it on in a club, in fact I did enjoy that which is where some people here may refer to the power a girl can have over a guy. I rarely went out with fellas I met at a club I can only think of one or two boyfriends I met in clubs, I did marry the last one though. And I definitely did not go out dressed to kill for a one night stand, that was a big no no in my books.

On the other hand I know girls that would go out with a gang of girls and they would be trying to outdo each other, youd hear the bitchy oh my god what is she wearing comments, one of the reasons why I preferred palling with the lads.

Actually, that made me laugh a little.

A couple weeks ago I was in a bar and I was stood at the bar ordering drink.
There was this pair of girls beside me talking pretty loud, screaming/squealing a little - you know the way girls are when they're looking for a bit of attention.

Anyway, they we're stood right beside me so I stood back from the bar and was sipping on my drink.
Next thing they stopped talking and we're just quietly looking at each other.
I took this as my Que, so I introduced myself to the hotter of the two.

After about five minutes of talking it was pretty clear that, although she was being polite and quite talkative, she had seemingly very little interest in anything romanticly orientated or any physical contact or anything.
So I was like, "See ya later".

But it was interesting to note that, as the conversation went on, she seemed to be getting slightly miffed or something.
It's like she was waiting for me to make a move on her or something.
Although in my perfectly sober state (I was sipping on 7-up) I could read from her signals that she didn't really have any interest (difficult and all as that is for me to admit from an ego point of view ) and that any advance I made would have been shunned.

When I said goodbye, she had a real sour face on her and just about managed a half smile and an "okay".

**
I wondered the reason for her behavior - why would she go to a bar and draw attention to herself, put herself in a position where there was a strong possibility that some kind of advance would be made on her - when she had no intention of reciprocating that advance.

And it occurred to me that she simply wanted some guy to hit on her to further her ego - give her an ego boost, a confidence boost.

And she probably would have got it as well if I had a bit of alcohol on me, as most guys in bars do, or wasn't so tuned in to reading all her signals and so forth (I hate getting kicked in the teeth) and quite aware that she was perhaps just interested in giving herself that ego boost as oppose to being interested in the guy himself.

I suppose it sucks a little that some girls are willing to take that ego boost at the expense of some poor inebriated bloke who doesn't know better.
But then I guess a lot of chicks get f**ked and forgotten just the same, so maybe it's a two way **** fest.

Nevyn

Maybe she was out having a laigh with her friend, laughing loudly or squeeing doesn't mean they want to be chatted up. look like your questing for crumpets isn't going well there either, maybe they were just not reacting to your testosterone cos they were on the pill and thier normal hormoanal reactions were supressed.

Scanlas The 2nd

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

Good honest reply.

Would it be fair to say that the bolded text above is true with a lot of girls.
As you pointed out, the vanity thing, it's like an ego boost really is what the girl wants out of it - which is totally fair enough - provided it's done in reasonably considerate fashion.
That is, not leading a guy on till he makes a move and then telling him to f**k off or something along those lines.

I guess if you look good, you want to be admired - and you gotta get your confidence from somewhere.

As a guy - well, as can be seen from my previous post, a lot of guys take their confidence from being "macho" (and I don't mean that in a condescending way) to a certain extent or doing something constructive, having faith in their own abilities, overcoming challenges.
Gleaning from your post, it appears a lot of girls take confidence from being admired for looking well.

Perhaps that confidence is then transferred into more everyday situations.
Like if you meet a guy you like, you have confidence in the fact that you look good, to approach him or some such..

Again, same with guys.
I don't know many girls that are impressed with how many kg's a guy can lift in the gym, but it's the confidence he gets from being able to do that, that personal self belief, that lends to his confidence when it comes to interacting socially in situations that might be slightly intimidating - i.e. chatting up girls.

It's one of the delusions of are time that you need a reason to be confident. Confidence which comes from reasons is volatile, you find yourself seeking out those reasons from the world to cement your confidence. But no amount of reasons/validation/ reenforcement is ever enough. Also it gets you in your head so you miss the present where rock solid stable confidence comes from.

Zombrex

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

Actually, that made me laugh a little.

A couple weeks ago I was in a bar and I was stood at the bar ordering drink.
There was this pair of girls beside me talking pretty loud, screaming/squealing a little - you know the way girls are when they're looking for a bit of attention.

Anyway, they we're stood right beside me so I stood back from the bar and was sipping on my drink.
Next thing they stopped talking and we're just quietly looking at each other.
I took this as my Que, so I introduced myself to the hotter of the two.

After about five minutes of talking it was pretty clear that, although she was being polite and quite talkative, she had seemingly very little interest in anything romanticly orientated or any physical contact or anything.
So I was like, "See ya later".

But it was interesting to note that, as the conversation went on, she seemed to be getting slightly miffed or something.
It's like she was waiting for me to make a move on her or something.
Although in my perfectly sober state (I was sipping on 7-up) I could read from her signals that she didn't really have any interest (difficult and all as that is for me to admit from an ego point of view ) and that any advance I made would have been shunned.

When I said goodbye, she had a real sour face on her and just about managed a half smile and an "okay".

With out being there it is hard to say but to be honest it sort of sounds like they didn't want you there in the first place, they were being polite but just waiting for you to go away and were eventually getting more annoyed that you hadn't.

When they were quiet what made you think it was "your cue"? It is funny how our perceptions of initial contact can alter how we view an entire exchange. If you reassess the exchange from the assumption at the start that you didn't actually have the go ahead to start chatting to them the exchange seems to make a lot more sense and doesn't require the girl to be purely attention-seeking

Kimia

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

Actually, that made me laugh a little.

A couple weeks ago I was in a bar and I was stood at the bar ordering drink.
There was this pair of girls beside me talking pretty loud, screaming/squealing a little - you know the way girls are when they're looking for a bit of attention.

Anyway, they we're stood right beside me so I stood back from the bar and was sipping on my drink.
Next thing they stopped talking and we're just quietly looking at each other.
I took this as my Que, so I introduced myself to the hotter of the two.

After about five minutes of talking it was pretty clear that, although she was being polite and quite talkative, she had seemingly very little interest in anything romanticly orientated or any physical contact or anything.
So I was like, "See ya later".

But it was interesting to note that, as the conversation went on, she seemed to be getting slightly miffed or something.
It's like she was waiting for me to make a move on her or something.
Although in my perfectly sober state (I was sipping on 7-up) I could read from her signals that she didn't really have any interest (difficult and all as that is for me to admit from an ego point of view ) and that any advance I made would have been shunned.

When I said goodbye, she had a real sour face on her and just about managed a half smile and an "okay".

**
I wondered the reason for her behavior - why would she go to a bar and draw attention to herself, put herself in a position where there was a strong possibility that some kind of advance would be made on her - when she had no intention of reciprocating that advance.

And it occurred to me that she simply wanted some guy to hit on her to further her ego - give her an ego boost, a confidence boost.

And she probably would have got it as well if I had a bit of alcohol on me, as most guys in bars do, or wasn't so tuned in to reading all her signals and so forth (I hate getting kicked in the teeth) and quite aware that she was perhaps just interested in giving herself that ego boost as oppose to being interested in the guy himself.

I suppose it sucks a little that some girls are willing to take that ego boost at the expense of some poor inebriated bloke who doesn't know better.
But then I guess a lot of chicks get f**ked and forgotten just the same, so maybe it's a two way **** fest.

You assumed too many things in this exchange and came to a flawed conclusion because you have no evidence that this is what she's thinking. You have made up the entire conclusion in your head tbh so therefore it doesn't make any sense.

Kimia

Here's what I mean:

Assumption 1.

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

you know the way girls are when they're looking for a bit of attention.

Assumption 2.

Next thing they stopped talking and we're just quietly looking at each other.
I took this as my Que, so I introduced myself to the hotter of the two.

Assumption 3

After about five minutes of talking it was pretty clear that, although she was being polite and quite talkative, she had seemingly very little interest in anything romanticly orientated or any physical contact or anything.

Assumption 4

But it was interesting to note that, as the conversation went on, she seemed to be getting slightly miffed or something.
It's like she was waiting for me to make a move on her or something.

Assumption 5

Although in my perfectly sober state (I was sipping on 7-up) I could read from her signals that she didn't really have any interest (difficult and all as that is for me to admit from an ego point of view ) and that any advance I made would have been shunned.

Assumption 6

And it occurred to me that she simply wanted some guy to hit on her to further her ego - give her an ego boost, a confidence boost

Assumption 7

...quite aware that she was perhaps just interested in giving herself that ego boost as oppose to being interested in the guy himself.

Assumption 8

I suppose it sucks a little that some girls are willing to take that ego boost at the expense of some poor inebriated bloke who doesn't know better.
But then I guess a lot of chicks get f**ked and forgotten just the same, so maybe it's a two way **** fest.

Do you see the way you made up all these assumptions to fit your theory?

Maybe she thought hey this guy is nice, I like him, I want to talk to him more, oh he's gone.

or

Maybe she thought I wish this guy didn't just start talking to me, I haven't seen my friend in ages etc.

And so on..

johnmcdnl

why do you were a pair of good jeans and a tshirt or shirt of whatever out... why not the trackies and big gangsta hoodie...

because society and tv has told us that you have to wear jeans because there classy...

just like society has decided that girls must wear make up and wear the mini skirt or whatever when they go out... there trying to impress their friends and look as good as possible by listening to what has been defined as the "Best lookin" by the media and peers etc etc...

Esoteric_

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

First of all, I just want to point out this is a serious thread and I'm not trying to take the piss; for those who may find the title misleading.

My question is this.
Every night lots of girls spend hours in their rooms getting made up and dressed up and then go out to nightclubs and bars and flaunt themselves and project, I think what you might describe as, a sexually suggestive persona. Perhaps there's a more correct description?
But you get the idea.

My question is; are they all looking to "score", so to speak.
Are they dressing up like this and flaunting themselves so, to try and attract the "alpha male", the guy of their dreams or something?
Are they just doing it to reassure themselves of their femininity by having guys flirt with them?
Just to have some fun and if some nights they happen to meet a nice dude, they might be with him, or they might want to make sure he's on for something more serious first?

Maybe it depends on the girl right?

But in general?
Whats your opinion?

Well, I dress up in what could be deemed a provocative way and I dance in a somewhat provocative way when I'm out in a club, but not for any of the reasons above. I do it because when I dress up in a dress that is somewhat revealing (I never wear tarty clothes, I always have leggings on and just some cleavage on show), I know that I look better than on a normal day when I slob around in a vest top and jeans. It takes me about 40 minutes to dress, straighten my hair, do my make up and get dinner before a night out. I do it because I feel pretty when I make the effort. It's not about being flirted with (actually, I despise guys in clubs coming on to me and push my best friend in front of me so they are blocked from my path!) or scoring. I have a partner and am totally happy. I just like feeling pretty.

rantyface

I'd say it's to impress other girls. Men wouldn't know a nice pair of shoes or a good make up job. Men don't even like fake tan.

starlit

i think its a lot more to do with confidence but some of what the OP and other posters have mentioned are probably true in some instances.

Waking-Dreams

Kimia wrote: »

Do you see the way you made up all these assumptions to fit your theory?

Maybe she thought hey this guy is nice, I like him, I want to talk to him more, oh he's gone.

or

Maybe she thought I wish this guy didn't just start talking to me, I haven't seen my friend in ages etc.

And so on..

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It's also a one-sided story. We'll never hear the lady's version, that maybe the gentlemen in question was just a bit boring for her liking, or didn't open the conversation very well. His body language could have been communicating signals she didn't find so attractive. Of course, these details would be omitted from the guy's version of the story because the protection of self-esteem is paramount, and the brain does this unconsciously. In fact, from the guy's perspective, he could of seen himself as “da man” and was on the ball, she was just being cold or bitch like so he walked away.

Look guys, I know, approaching a lady can be difficult because rejection is quite possible, but to walk away and rationalise that she was being snooty or just looking for an ego boost when it might have been you all along, just for the sake of protecting our own self-esteem, isn't doing yourself any favours. You'll just end up painting many women as bitches looking for an ego boost when right after you opened your mouth, she very quickly summed you up as someone she has no interest it at all. That's not her fault. If you were approached by someone you had no interest in you'd be looking for an exit strategy too. However, most guys don't get hit on as much as women do so they'll never understand what it's like.

I feel for women, because many of them get hit on every day by people they have no interest in, yet don't want to be bitches but are sort of forced to just to get rid of all the time burglars. If they had to entertain and accommodate every single dumb ass who tried to chat them up, how much of that time would be an utter waste for her? Nodding her head, “uh-huh, yeah, uh-huh, yeah” meanwhile looking around the room for an exit.

I don't think they want to be so cold and bitch like, but when they're being hit on so often and in such frequency what choice do women have? And of course, the insecure guy takes the rejection hard and instead just taking it on the chin (there's plenty of fish in the sea), paints the lady out to be a cold, insensitive, vain bitch while sidestepping the fact that maybe his chat-up line or whatever was in poor taste.[/FONT]

Elle Collins

LyndaMcL wrote: »

I just like feeling pretty.

This is the reason the vast majority of women put time and effort into their clothes, hair and make-up when they go out. The sooner men who think otherwise wake up to that fact the sooner they'll stop frustrating themselves.

Elle Collins

Jake LeMotta wrote: »

I wondered the reason for her behavior - why would she go to a bar and draw attention to herself, put herself in a position where there was a strong possibility that some kind of advance would be made on her - when she had no intention of reciprocating that advance.

You wondered the reason for her behaviour? You wondered the reason why she would assume the right to frequent a bar unless she was willing to lie down for the first bloke who signalled he wouldn't mind his hole? Is there any way in hell you could possibly be for real?????

Marvelous Marvin

Elle Collins wrote: »

You wondered the reason for her behaviour? You wondered the reason why she would assume the right to frequent a bar unless she was willing to lie down for the first bloke who signalled he wouldn't mind his hole? Is there any way in hell you could possibly be for real?????

You are seemingly alluding to the fact that she was stood in a bar for the good of her health?

That she had on enough clothes that would struggle to cover the palm of your hand, for purely aesthetic reasons?

Fact of the matter is, whether females are willing to acknowledge this or not, they dress up and go out and blah blah, because they want to meet or attract an alpha male.

See, we're all animals, with all their attributes and instincts - save for the fact that we have consciousness of ourselves.
This consciousness prevents us from acting as animals do in the animal kingdom, but the fact remains that all the desires and tendencies are still there.

Every alpha male and another male around each other, are always a hares breath away from engaging in confrontation due to the dominance factor.

Every alpha male and female are just a hares breath away from copulating.

Our consciousness lends itself to qualities being sought from humans in other areas - such as, I dunno, being talkative or funny or a nice guy.

But fact of the matter is, what every female desires most - whether she's willing to admit it on a conscious level or not - is to be dominated by an alpha male.
Anything less is a compromise.

And that's what we're really seeing as regards this dressing provocatively, wearing revealing clothing, teasing etc.
The purpose, for every female, is to attract - not some unsure/insecure/unable to perform (by this I mean, not the act itself, but making her orgasm) physically, type of male - but the alpha male.

Any other claim - female jealousy, competitiveness etc - perhaps they exist to a certain degree, but they stem, in some way or other, from the above.

Elle Collins

Marvelous Marvin wrote: »

You are seemingly alluding to the fact that she was stood in a bar for the good of her health?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've been socialising for the good of my mental health for the guts of twenty years. Any man who approaches me with the attitude that I'm there for the good of his sexual health is someone I'd regard as beneath my contempt.

Marvelous Marvin

Elle Collins wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've been socialising for the good of my mental health for the guts of twenty years. Any man who approaches me with the attitude that I'm there for the good of his sexual health is someone I'd regard as beneath my contempt.

You've (almost certainly inadvertently) conceded and capitulated everything I have just said with this comment.

For the human body to function correctly, it must be in balance.
To be in balance, it's necessary to express oneself in certain ways - that is, express ones nature, or else the body falls out of balance.

On an animalistic/instinctual level, for males, it's necessary to express strength, self assurance, "alphaness" - all with the purpose of attracting females.

For females, it's necessary to express a sexually orientated vibe, to attract males.

Without full filling these necessities, the body falls out of balance.
Indeed, I believe, those who can do the above most effectively, are the happiest people.

So when you say, "for the good of your mental health", what you really mean is, your full filling that obligation to your own subconscious or animalistic/personal tendencies, or else you'd go mad.
Your body would fall out of balance - you'd probably loose your appetite, become an insomniac, drop in energy levels and motivation - and other such things related to a body out of balance.

This occurs despite the fact that your consciousness may disagree - from a moral or personal point of view - that your not wishing to attract or draw this sexual attention, perhaps a denial of your own nature in a sense (I refer to the general female populace, although speaking in a direct manner here).

I say denial of one's own nature, as on a conscious level, people feel it much more noble to be attracted to "good" guys, who are polite and courteous, gentlemen and all them other qualities associated with the "good guy" stereotype.
As oppose to someone who may not fit that variety - but has the potential to offer much better sexual full fillment.

Edit: I guess the indulgence of these desires is in conflict with some part of ourselves in some regard also - just as it is for males to fight - the desire is there but as conscious humans, we feel it is something best not done unless under the most kosher circumstances.

This is in a relationship as far as sexual activity goes, and in a ring, as far as conflict goes.
Less than that, and we feel we are compromising ourselves in a sense.