Rooney v Messi

SlickRic

just so the other place doesn't get clogged up...

they're easily the two front runners already for World Player of the Year this year.

SlickRic wrote: »

let the debate begin...

Rooney/Messi this year for World Player of the Year?

all dependant on the World Cup?

Headshot wrote: »

by far

your joking right ?

anyway the little man has won me money so i love him

Archimedez wrote: »

All depends on how United/Barca and England/Argentina do in the Champions League and World Cup.

jasonorr wrote: »

The amount of goals and assists Messi has coming from midfield is enough for him to win the trophy again. For me, he's been the best player in the world for the last 2 seasons.

redout wrote: »

29 goals for Messi

Just 9 short of last season's haul.

I reckon he could better it.

let the games begin...

Rooney is indoubtedly the most effective player in the world right now, and worthy of whatever awards are coming his way

But theres just something about Messi that rocks my world

PHB

If anyone saw Messi's hattrick tonight, by god, he is some player.

Peyton Manning

Cannavaro won it a few years ago. Its obvious that it wont be decided until after the World Cup. The Champions League will have a minor say too. Ronaldo is unfortunate that Madrid cant cut it in Europe and that Portugal are a bit - well - shíte. Messi is slightly disadvantaged in that they have a clinically insane manager at Argentina too.

_blank_

How are they doing in the CL goals wise, assists?

The_Kew_Tour

Rooney on current form is the better this year

Peyton Manning

Des wrote: »

How are they doing in the CL goals wise, assists?

Messi - 6 games played (540 min), 2 goals, 0 assists.
Rooney - 5 games played (341 min), 4 goals, 1 assist.

SlickRic

i haven't seen enough of Messi this year to definitively judge.

by the looks of it, he's as important now to Barca as Rooney is to Utd; just from reading the respective fans' reactions.

i'd guess it's a dead heat, but both are an absolute joy to watch.

Davaeo09

Messi imo, he has been the most consistent throughout the season, right now Rooney is probably on fire that little bit more.

Messi's Hat-trick tonight was immense! :pac:

Peyton Manning

I just think its an absolute joy that Messi, Rooney and Ronaldo are around right now. They really are 3 artists, and they have a blank canvas of over a decade ahead of them. It will be a joy to watch.

L'prof

I think Messi is the better player, he's been amazing for the last 2 years now. Rooney's not far behind but if I had the option it would be Messi every time.

If the Ballon D'or is based on pure ability, which it should be, then Messi should win it. If England win the world cup though, I can see them giving it to Roney!

Rekop dog

Neither Imo!

2006 player of the year- Cannavaro- Italy world cup winners

2002- Ronaldo- brazil

1998- Zidane

1994- Romario

It will be from the winners, most likely Spain. So Villa, Xavi and iniesta are front runners IMO

Ush1

jasonorr wrote: »

I think Messi is the better player, he's been amazing for the last 2 years now. Rooney's not far behind but if I had the option it would be Messi every time.

If the Ballon D'or is based on pure ability, which it should be, then Messi should win it. If England win the world cup though, I can see them giving it to Roney!

That's always the thing with these trophies, it's not just about ability unfortunately.

CHD

Messi

He does what Rooney does and more, in a tougher position to do it imo. Rooney is just unlucky that possibly the best player ever is playing his trade while he is.

Davaeo09

CHD wrote: »

Messi

He does what Rooney does and more, in a tougher position to do it imo. Rooney is just unlucky that possibly the best player ever is playing his trade while he is.

Best comment I have read today :pac:

Drogba??

Neil3030

IMO Messi would probably have a shade more creative forces around him at Barca, so while he is a stunning player, I would rank Rooney's achievements as being more salient, given the slightly lower standard of attacking players on his team.

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought I had seen the best player in the world currently when I saw Rooney help United to another 3 pts earlier today. Then I watched Messi dismantle Valencia in breathtaking fashion.

At this moment I'd have to say Messi by a whisker.

Rekop Dog wrote:

Neither Imo!

2006 player of the year- Cannavaro- Italy world cup winners

2002- Ronaldo- brazil

1998- Zidane

1994- Romario

It will be from the winners, most likely Spain. So Villa, Xavi and iniesta are front runners IMO

I agree with this. In World Cup years it tends to go to the tournament's most influential player. I would say Xavi is a decent bet and I wouldn't rule out Fabregas either if Arsenal can bag a trophy.

deisedevil

Ush1 wrote: »

That's always the thing with these trophies, it's not just about ability unfortunately.

Dead wrong there. It's a good thing it doesn't just go down to ability otherwise you could have a player with the best ability doing fcuk all for the year and taking the award. That don't make sense.

deisedevil

rarnes1 wrote: »

Drogba??

He hasn't a hope because it's a WC year and can't really see Ivory Coast setting the world alight. Not fair but this award often doesn't get a fair result.
I think Drogba isn't getting anywhere near the credit and coverage he deserves this season simply because Rooney has been on fire aswell and he's English, simple as.

Ush1

deisedevil wrote: »

Dead wrong there. It's a good thing it doesn't just go down to ability otherwise you could have a player with the best ability doing fcuk all for the year and taking the award. That don't make sense.

Not to me, I like football because of ability, not work horses.:)

Peyton Manning

Archimedez wrote: »

I just think its an absolute joy that Messi, Rooney and Ronaldo are around right now. They really are 3 artists, and they have a blank canvas of over a decade ahead of them. It will be a joy to watch.

I'll quote this as a bump, because Ronaldo has just scored another wonder free kick. We really should appreciate how lucky we are to be able to watch all three of these players on a regular basis and not have to rely on hearsay.

deisedevil

deisedevil wrote: »

He hasn't a hope because it's a WC year and can't really see Ivory Coast setting the world alight. Not fair but this award often doesn't get a fair result.
I think Drogba isn't getting anywhere near the credit and coverage he deserves this season simply because Rooney has been on fire aswell and he's English, simple as.

I can't see England going too far in the world cup tbh.

Last 16. Quarters at best.

carlop

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I thought I had seen the best player in the world currently when I saw Rooney help United to another 3 pts earlier today. Then I watched Messi dismantle Valencia in breathtaking fashion.

At this moment I'd have to say Messi by a whisker.



I agree with this. In World Cup years it tends to go to the tournament's most influential player. I would say Xavi is a decent bet and I wouldn't rule out Fabregas either if Arsenal can bag a trophy.

Is he still not starting for Spain? He'd have to be first choice for them if he's to have any chance.

As others have mentioned, the World Cup has a massive bearing. Just think back to Cannavaro in 2006, no one would have given him a chance prior to the World Cup.

Kirnsy

lads yiz are all wrong... niklas bentdner is the best player granted by God on this earth, living or dead.


he says so himself sure

Rekop dog

carlop wrote: »

Is he still not starting for Spain? He'd have to be first choice for them if he's to have any chance.

As others have mentioned, the World Cup has a massive bearing. Just think back to Cannavaro in 2006, no one would have given him a chance prior to the World Cup.

It's a toss up between Torres and Fabragas for a starting spot. Just depends if they decide to go 5 in midfield or two up top.

And yeah Cannavaro winning was crazy, considering Barca did the league/champions league double and Ronaldinho was absolutely magic.

carlop

carlop wrote: »

As others have mentioned, the World Cup has a massive bearing. Just think back to Cannavaro in 2006, no one in the English Media would have given him a chance prior to the World Cup.

FYP

He won the Serie A league with Juve that year as well winning the following awards:

Serie A footballer of the year
Serie A defender of the year.

deisedevil

Ush1 wrote: »

Not to me, I like football because of ability, not work horses.:)

Ronaldinho should have won more Player of the year awards by that logic. Can't just be down to ability, if your not using your ability then how can ya win it?

Mr.Nice Guy

carlop wrote: »

Is he still not starting for Spain? He'd have to be first choice for them if he's to have any chance.

Well he started their recent 2-0 friendly win over France while Xavi replaced him for the second half. If he gets game time I think Fabregas could be a big player at the WC but thinking back to Euro 2008 he was only supporting cast really. He might need someone to be injured to get an opportunity to shine.

Rekop dog

rarnes1 wrote: »

FYP

He won the Serie A league with Juve that year as well winning the following awards:

Serie A footballer of the year
Serie A defender of the year.

Had a good LOL at this. You do know they cheated they're way to that title that year and where subsequently relagated for match fixing!

Rekop dog

Rekop dog wrote: »

Had a good LOL at this. You do know they cheated they're way to that title that year and where subsequently relagated for match fixing!

:rolleyes: Really?

Juventus weren't linked to the match fixing scandal until after the 2005/2006 season finished afaik.

Anyway this is off topic.

Ush1

deisedevil wrote: »

Ronaldinho should have won more Player of the year awards by that logic. Can't just be down to ability, if your not using your ability then how can ya win it?

There's also alot of great players that may have never won it for the same reasons. It's extremely subjective anyway. Some people think it's for trophies won, some for goals scored. Then you have defenders or captains winning it? Who's to say?

Rekop dog

rarnes1 wrote: »

:rolleyes: Really?

Juventus weren't linked to the match fixing scandal until after the 2005/2006 season finished afaik.

Anyway this is off topic.

05 and 06 titles striped. It's very easy to be a good defender when it's already decided pre game that your going to keep a clean sheet.

Edit: you shouldn't use them sarcastic smileys when your clearly the misinformed one.

deisedevil

Ush1 wrote: »

There's also alot of great players that may have never won it for the same reasons. It's extremely subjective anyway. Some people think it's for trophies won, some for goals scored. Then you have defenders or captains winning it? Who's to say?

I don't think your getting what I meant. It should be down to performance overall, not just ability, ever player has a certain level of ability, doesn't mean they go out and use it though.

Ush1

deisedevil wrote: »

I don't think your getting what I meant. It should be down to performance overall, not just ability, ever player has a certain level of ability, doesn't mean they go out and use it though.

No I am getting what you're saying. But some players not trying too hard are still better than most, performance wise. I prefer watching them and believe they should get the awards. I could see a player who is very effective but does nothing that excites me and people think they should win the award. It's voted on by journalists if I'm not mistaken.

rossie1977

CHD wrote: »

Messi

He does what Rooney does and more, in a tougher position to do it imo. Rooney is just unlucky that possibly the best player ever is playing his trade while he is.

messi ain't even the best player to play for argentina, i was lucky enough to be growing up when maradona was playing at peak, if messi can single-handedly win the world cup for the argies then we can start to compare these guys but before that no way, remember this is far better argentina team sans messi than the one in 86 sans maradona

Mitch Connor

the player who does the best should win the award, not the player with the most natural skill. Robinho has more natural ability than most other players on the planet - there is no way he should be in the running for WPOTY though.

Berbatov probably has greater technique and ability than Rooney, but Rooney does a crap load more than Berbatov with the talent he has and is clearly the better player as a result of that.

Shanotheslayer

In my opinion:

Messi is god

Rooney is top notch

Ronaldo is top notch with alot of bitching

kryogen

Roonaldo is arguably carrying the Madrid team tbh, and if they can win La Liga, with his profile he will be in with a good shout

Messi is on fire and imo this year him and Rooney are playing at a similar level.

the world cup and the champions league will have a big say i guess

Probably be Messi cause everyone loves him

JPA

I have to say I love watching Messi more than Ronaldo or Rooney, just a personal preference. His style of playing is just brilliant to watch.

eZe^

Rooney's made much larger strides this season than Messi. I'd say Rooney edges it so far because of how far he is come, but I think Messi is the better player. Whoever plays better for their national team will win it. Barring Canavarro, all those players were pretty much WPOTY material for their careers, so I don't think that it was solely because they won a world cup. The only players for Spain/ Brazil that I see in with a shout are Fabregas, Xavi (not as good as Cesc this season), Villa, and no real Brazilian player springs to mind - can't see any of those really beating Rooney to the punch.

L'prof

eZe^ wrote: »

Rooney's made much larger strides this season than Messi. I'd say Rooney edges it so far because of how far he is come, but I think Messi is the better player. Whoever plays better for their national team will win it. Barring Canavarro, all those players were pretty much WPOTY material for their careers, so I don't think that it was solely because they won a world cup. The only players for Spain/ Brazil that I see in with a shout are Fabregas, Xavi (not as good as Cesc this season), Villa, and no real Brazilian player springs to mind - can't see any of those really beating Rooney to the punch.

Rooney has clearly improved more than Messi this season but, that's because he had further to go. That doesn't make him more worthy of WPOTY though!

ShamoBuc

Most people see Rooney non stop - prem lge/ cups/ europe, and as a result of being on fire at the moment, might believe he is the best. Were we to see the same amount of Messi Maybe peoples opinions would differ somewhat. Personally I think Rooney is a great player but I would prefer to pay money to watch Messi play. His close ball control, dribbling etc is quite simply Maradonaesque and I think that is a fairly high compliment to give to any modern day footballer. Not much in it, but, it's Messi for me.

eZe^

jasonorr wrote: »

Rooney has clearly improved more than Messi this season but, that's because he had further to go. That doesn't make him more worthy of WPOTY though!

True enough, Messi has 29 goals and 10 assists this season in 36 appearances, which is a pretty fantastic stat for someone who isn't a CF, he might have a chance of bettering last season. However, because Barca are not as 'attractive' this year, and United actually seeming to take a step forward in spite of Ronaldo's departure, that might be something that would tip the balance in favour of Rooney, and there have been times when Messi looked like he needed Alves' presence to really run riot.

Ush1

I think for instance, if you looked at Messi's first goal tonight(but look at countless others). You'd be hard pressed to find anyone else who can score that type of goal.

Centre of gravity, close ball control and shifting, at that speed and quickness.

Lavezzi, Arshavin and even Iniesta can come close, but nobody can really do it like Messi.

_blank_

eZe^ wrote: »

United actually seeming to take a step forward in spite of Ronaldo's departure,

Unless they win the CL then they won't have taken a step forward, and in my opinion, they are not favourites for the league this season.

Yes, Rooney has upped his game, but Messi is still a better player.

Rooney is just behind him, but still, he's behind him.

Rooney is better than Ronaldo.

Rekop dog

eZe^ wrote: »

and there have been times when Messi looked like he needed Alves' presence to really run riot.

Good point but for Alves you could probably read Valencia in Rooney's case.

A Primal Nut

Would love to see Messi in the Premiership. I am a big fan but he would have to adapt his game slightly..no way he would run rings around defenders in the Premiership like in La Liga. Also Messi hasn't really done it for Argentina. I live with an Argentinian who is sick of watching him playing for Barcelona because he never does it at international level. Given its a world cup year he will have to hit form for Argentina in order to win the award.

That said I have never enjoyed watching a player as much as I enjoy watching him...just incredible the amount of times Barcelona need a goal and he comes up with something amazing. I reckon he will hit form in the World Cup and win the award that is my prediction.

I think England do have a great chance of winning the world cup. Of course nobody here will admit it because its an Irish forum but they have an amazing first 11. Argentina, Spain and Brazil also have a chance. It could be that it comes down to Rooney, Messi or Fabregas depending on who wins the World Cup. Incredible that there is no Brazilian candidate really. Its a solid Brazil team but not many stars on the top of their game. In the past they would always have 2 or 3 and sometimes one or two on the bench haha.

I see there is the usual anti-English stuff on this forum - "would be lucky to get past the last 16", "Rooney over-rated because he's English". What a load of rubbish. Fair enough, I don't want them to win it either but I don't let bias get in the way of the fact they are one of the favourites.

Ush1

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Would love to see Messi in the Premiership. I am a big fan but he would have to adapt his game slightly..no way he would run rings around defenders in the Premiership like in La Liga. Also Messi hasn't really done it for Argentina. I live with an Argentinian who is sick of watching him playing for Barcelona because he never does it at international level. Given its a world cup year he will have to hit form for Argentina in order to win the award.

That said I have never enjoyed watching a player s much as I enjoy watching him...just incredible the amount of times Barcelona need a goal and he comes up with something amazing. I reckon he will hit form in the World Cup and win the award that is my prediction.

I think England do have a great chance of winning the world cup. Of course nobody here will admit it because its an Irish forum but they have an amazing first 11. Argentina, Spain and Brazil also have a chance. It could be that it comes down to Rooney, Messi or Fabregas depending on who wins the World Cup. Incredible that there is no Brazilian candidate really. Its a solid Brazil team but not many stars on the top of their game.

I see there is the usual anti-English stuff on this forum - would be lucky to get past the last 16, Rooney over-rated because he's English. What a load of rubbish.

In fairness, who HAS done it for Argentina in the current side?

A Primal Nut

Ush1 wrote: »

In fairness, who HAS done it for Argentina in the current side?

Haha true but regardless a WPOTY has to play well for his national side especially in a world cup year. I watched Argentina against Peru, a poor side, and he really didn't play well, was tackled very easily etc. Baffling really. You would expect a player of his ability would do well in any team regardless of the tactics because of his amazing individual skills.

Actually I can think of one who played well in the few other games of Argentina I seen - Veron!

Ush1

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Haha true but regardless a WPOTY has to play well for his national side especially in a world cup year. I seen against Peru, a poor side, and he really didn't play well, was tackled very easily etc. Baffling really. You would expect a player of his ability would do well in any team.

I do agree but I think the fact that the Argies have such an embarressment of riches actually gets him slightly off the hook ironically. I'm sure all those players can play better but I 'spose that's a different arguement.

I think Argentina to be honest have better potential to go further in the World Cup than England. Plus I believe the World Cup will have the biggest influence on preceedings.