Rooney v Messi

A Primal Nut

Argentina have better individual players, but Capello has his lads playing better as a team whereas Maradona is clueless. It comes down to the two coaches really. Just compare their performances in qualifiers.

Would love to see Argentina with a top coach. Someone like Wenger.

Ush1

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Argentina have better individual players, but Capello has his lads playing better as a team whereas Maradona is clueless. It comes down to the two coaches really. Just compare their performances in qualifiers.

Would love to see Argentina with a top coach. Someone like Wenger.

There's better teams than both in their realistically.
Could well be a Spanish player. Wouldn't mind seeing Villa up there if he finished top scorer is SA.

eZe^

Messi is forced to play as a through the centre forward when he has played for Argentina for the past year, he NEEDS to be played on the wing, as he can be lethal making those diagonal runs, playing on the left also gives him the ability to drop into midfield and help out/ set up his team mates with nice passes. When you play him through the centre an entire dimension of his game is lost, and he reverts to an Iniesta style player, as he isn't good enough to lead the line.

Argentina should go 4-4-2, with Maria/ Messi on the wings, Higuain/ Milito up top, and a midfield of Benega-Mascherano.

Rekop dog

Ush1 wrote: »

There's better teams than both in their realistically.
Could well be a Spanish player. Wouldn't mind seeing Villa up there if he finished top scorer is SA.

When he finishes top scorer. No ifs about it:D

eZe^

Rekop dog wrote: »

When he finishes top scorer. No ifs about it:D

Hope you're right, I've Villa as top scorer tied into both my WC winning bets (Spain and Brazil). Don't fail me now David!

Ush1

Rekop dog wrote: »

When he finishes top scorer. No ifs about it:D

What kinda odds can ya get I wonder?:D

A Primal Nut

eZe^ wrote: »

Messi is forced to play as a through the centre forward when he has played for Argentina for the past year, he NEEDS to be played on the wing, as he can be lethal making those diagonal runs, playing on the left also gives him the ability to drop into midfield and help out/ set up his team mates with nice passes. When you play him through the centre an entire dimension of his game is lost, and he reverts to an Iniesta style player, as he isn't good enough to lead the line.

Argentina should go 4-4-2, with Maria/ Messi on the wings, Higuain/ Milito up top, and a midfield of Benega-Mascherano.

Nah 4-3-3 like Barcelona. Messi, Higuain and Tevez as forward trio. Or Maria instead of Tevez. Or Milito or Aguero instead of Higuain. Whatever haha, 4-3-3 clearly gets the best out of Messi.

I honestly think if Messi keeps this up for a few more seasons he will be considered the best player ever, but FIFA value international football highly when it comes to awards so he would need to do it at the world cup. A few performances like tonight should do it. Incredible hat-trick.

Ush1

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Nah 4-3-3 like Barcelona. Messi, Higuain and Tevez as forward trio. Or Maria instead of Tevez. Or Milito or Aguero instead of Higuain. Whatever haha, 4-3-3 clearly gets the best out of Messi.

I honestly think if Messi keeps this up for a few more seasons he will be considered the best player ever, but FIFA value international football highly when it comes to awards so he would need to do it at the world cup. A few performances like tonight should do it. Incredible hat-trick.

Can't go with the midget foward line of Aguero, Tevez and Messi. Doesn't work.

Bodhisopha

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Would love to see Messi in the Premiership. I am a big fan but he would have to adapt his game slightly..no way he would run rings around defenders in the Premiership like in La Liga. Also Messi hasn't really done it for Argentina. I live with an Argentinian who is sick of watching him playing for Barcelona because he never does it at international level. Given its a world cup year he will have to hit form for Argentina in order to win the award.

Thanks for the chuckles!

5starpool

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Haha true but regardless a WPOTY has to play well for his national side especially in a world cup year. I watched Argentina against Peru, a poor side, and he really didn't play well, was tackled very easily etc. Baffling really. You would expect a player of his ability would do well in any team regardless of the tactics because of his amazing individual skills.

Actually I can think of one who played well in the few other games of Argentina I seen - Veron!

Wasn't the Peru game played in a torrential downpour?

Rekop dog

Ush1 wrote: »

What kinda odds can ya get I wonder?:D

9/1 on paddy power.

Ush1

Rekop dog wrote: »

9/1 on paddy power.

Tasty enough.

leninbenjamin

I suppose I don't really see enough of Messi to be able to say this fairly, but it's Rooney everytime for me.

I know he's probably not as creative in the final third as Messi, or as clinical a finisher as Ronaldo, but by God does he compensate for this with his work rate and strength.

However Rooney for me has a side to his game that Messi and Ronaldo don't have: he's an absolutely fantastic defender. His decision making off the ball is fantastic, you only have to see how often he will spring back to his own half to cover for Evra or Rafael if he sees a gap opening up. He will know when to drop deep if the midfield are under pressure, yet it still doesn't prevent him from being a threat in the final third. And he's great in the tackle too.

Messi and Ronaldo will get you goals. Rooney will get you goals and then help to protect the lead when you're under pressure.

You've to build your team around Messi and Ronaldo to gain maximum effect. Rooney you can drop in anywhere outfield and he'll still play fantastically. He's the total footballer imo.

gimmick

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Would love to see Messi in the Premiership. I am a big fan but he would have to adapt his game slightly..no way he would run rings around defenders in the Premiership like in La Liga. Also Messi hasn't really done it for Argentina. I live with an Argentinian who is sick of watching him playing for Barcelona because he never does it at international level. Given its a world cup year he will have to hit form for Argentina in order to win the award.

If he was being played in his proper position, this would not be an issue.

Read an article recently saying that Maradonna is deliberately doing this, as he fears for his mantle of greatest ever. Which is probably a load of crap, but there you go.

As for the debate on hand, I think no team depends on a player as much as United do at present for Rooney, and he is delivering every single time. He also seems to be getting better and is both a big game player and a leader on the pitch.

Messi, while relied on heavily, is not as much so as Rooney, which helps his game no end. That is not to say that he is not a big game player because he clearly is and can handle the pressure like few others.

I suppose it comes down to personal preference for me, and that is Messi. I prefer watching him play. I think what eh does with the ball, others would not even think to do. And I just do not like Man U or their players

Dave!

The Spanish league is sh*tter quality than the English, so therefore Rooney :pac:

fishy fishy fishy

Davaeo09

To the absolute fool who above claimed you need to build a team around Messi for him to be effective.
You CLEARLY don't watch Barca, the team is not built around anybody its the exact same system Barca have used for 20 odd years now :mad:

Don't be so judgemental :pac:



Any way
Heading ability = Rooney
Running with the ball = Messi
Close control = Messi
First touch = Messi (did any one see him take down Henry's cross for his second goal last night? it was amazing)
Finishing = Rooney by a tiny margin.
Team work = Rooney again by just a little bit
Creativity = Messi
Strength = Rooney
Pace = Messi
Passing = Messi
Vision and awareness = Messi

and yes that's what you call rambling :cool:

leninbenjamin

Davaeo09 wrote: »

To the absolute fool who above claimed you need to build a team around Messi for him to be effective.
You CLEARLY don't watch Barca, the team is not built around anybody its the exact same system Barca have used for 20 odd years now :mad:

I never claimed to watch Barca regularly but...

He doesn't offer enough width, he cuts inside too often for me imo. Part of the reason he never looks as good for Argentina is because he doesn't have the threat of the likes of Alves behind him creating space for him. The constant threat of the surge forward from Alves keeps opposition fullbacks penned in and creates a considerable amount of space for Messi to operate in. Do not underestimate Pep's role in giving Messi a platform to perform.

Messi is fantastic with the ball at his feet. But people let themselves become blinded by quick footwork tbh. I'd pick Rooney over Messi everyday, but that's just my opinion.

Ush1

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I never claimed to watch Barca regularly but...

He doesn't offer enough width, he cuts inside too often for me imo. Part of the reason he never looks as good for Argentina is because he doesn't have the threat of the likes of Alves behind him creating space for him. The constant threat of the surge forward from Alves keeps opposition fullbacks penned in and creates a considerable amount of space for Messi to operate in. Do not underestimate Pep's role in giving Messi a platform to perform.

Messi is fantastic with the ball at his feet. But people let themselves become blinded by quick footwork tbh. I'd pick Rooney over Messi everyday, but that's just my opinion.

If you watch him play for Argentina he's often down the middle and not out on the right at all. The problem is getting the ball to him in the first place. You have Xavi to do that at Barca.

Warper

This season there is very little between Rooney and Messi. In fact Rooney is having the better season. He seems to be a different player this year and he is nearly beating teams on his own. His fitness and pace seems to have jumped up a couple of notches and is undoubtably the main man for Utd and England. His finishing is lethal this season as can be seen in his 32 goals in 38 apperances for Utd. He also has immense hunger for the game and is always looking to improve, as has Messi and Ronaldo.

Messi is the best player in the world though. There is no greater sight in world football than seeing him skip past defenders and passing the ball into the corner of the net. Messi has been at the top of world football for the past couple of years, whereas I dont think Rooney has ever been nominated for WPOTY. The shocking thing about Messi is he is only 22.

Rooney is the deserved favourite so far this season for WPOTY but overall I would pick Messi over anyone. I think the 3 best players in the world are Messi, Ronaldo and Rooney - in that order.

CR 7

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Any way
Heading ability = Rooney
Running with the ball = Messi
Close control = Messi
First touch = Messi (did any one see him take down Henry's cross for his second goal last night? it was amazing)
Finishing = Rooney by a tiny margin.
Team work = Rooney again by just a little bit
Creativity = Messi
Strength = Rooney
Pace = Messi
Passing = Messi
Vision and awareness = Messi

and yes that's what you call rambling :cool:

Is that list based on the games yesterday?

Making such a list negates your point anyway.

Hair = Messi
Green and Red boots = Rooney
Red Jersey = Rooney
Scoring against Fulham = Rooney.

There. Irrefutable evidence.

Ush1

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Is that list based on the games yesterday?

Making such a list negates your point anyway.

Hair = Messi
Green and Red boots = Rooney
Red Jersey = Rooney
Scoring against Fulham = Rooney.

There. Irrefutable evidence.

Plus Rooneys English and plays in the best damn ruddy league in the world.

Pro. F

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Any way
Heading ability = Rooney
Running with the ball = Messi
Close control = Messi
First touch = Messi (did any one see him take down Henry's cross for his second goal last night? it was amazing)
Finishing = Rooney by a tiny margin.
Team work = Rooney again by just a little bit
Creativity = Messi
Strength = Rooney
Pace = Messi
Passing = Messi
Vision and awareness = Messi

and yes that's what you call rambling :cool:

You left out a few:
Positioning = Rooney
Workrate = Rooney

One interesting thing for me is that both Messi and Ronaldo have a standout, eye catching weapon in their arsenal. When Ronaldo runs with the ball he is stronger and faster than anybody else in the world. When Messi dribbles he is better than anybody. Rooney's standout ability - his tireless workrate and willingness to self sacrifice - is less eye catching and that will probably always count against him a little when the awards are being handed out.

Between Rooney, Messi and Ronaldo it's too close to call over just one season. The only way to really compare them will be to look back in 10 years or so and look at the big picture imho.

event

Rekop dog wrote: »

05 and 06 titles striped. It's very easy to be a good defender when it's already decided pre game that your going to keep a clean sheet.

Edit: you shouldn't use them sarcastic smileys when your clearly the misinformed one.

Oh my.

Just.....my god!

Rekop dog

event wrote: »

Oh my.

Just.....my god!

what's wrong with that

Bodhisopha

Rooney is heavily reliant on the service he gets whereas the likes of Ronaldo and Messi can make something out of nothing (Messi's first goal last night) or bang a few in from outside/on the edge of the box. I can't remember the last time Rooney scored from outside the box.

Nobody in world football can touch Messi right now. Top scorer and top assists in La Liga says it all.

niallo27

One good season and he the best in the world, this thread is embarrassing, if he does it year after year then he might near the level of messi, so many of ye are brainwashed by sky sports

event

Rekop dog wrote: »

what's wrong with that

i aint draggin this thread off topic, go and look up what Juve scandal was about, it certainly wasnt "already decided pre game that your going to keep a clean sheet"

SlickRic

niallo27 wrote: »

this thread is embarrassing

you're embarrassing.

niallo27

SlickRic wrote: »

you're embarrassing.

Yes yes i am

HalloweenJack

Messi, simples.

Rob113

niallo27 wrote: »

One good season and he the best in the world, this thread is embarrassing, if he does it year after year then he might near the level of messi, so many of ye are brainwashed by sky sports

Is it not called the World Player of the YEAR?
Idiot post.

niallo27

Rob113 wrote: »

Is it not called the World Player of the YEAR?
Idiot post.

ok i pick messi so

A Primal Nut

Rooney has been incredible for many years. Just because he didn't score 40 goals every season doesn't mean he wasn't an amazing player. He has adjusted to become primarily a goalscorer this season whereas he had a different role but was no less effective last couple of seasons.

niallo27 wrote: »

One good season and he the best in the world, this thread is embarrassing, if he does it year after year then he might near the level of messi, so many of ye are brainwashed by sky sports

Wrong. Andy Gray said yesterday Messi was the best in the world.

gimmick wrote: »

If he was being played in his proper position, this would not be an issue.

Read an article recently saying that Maradonna is deliberately doing this, as he fears for his mantle of greatest ever. Which is probably a load of crap, but there you go.

Wayne Rooney has played on the left, right, off the front man and up front and always does the job.

In the most recent game I watched, it was Messi, Higuain and De Maria as part of a forward trio in a 4-3-3, although I can't remember the other games but you are probably right about 4-4-2. Regardless he has enough individual ability that he should be able to do it in any position, maybe not be as effective but I still expect him to do the some of the same stuff, incredible shooting, dribbling,etc. Anyway, regardless of the reason, he'll not win FIFA World Player of The Year in a World Cup year unless he performs in the Summer. I really hope he does, because I think he is the best player I have ever seen by a long way!

Paparazzo

Both are obviously great, but I'd rather watch Messi, so I'd vote for him

syngindub

what we need is to see is a video of each player this year. showing all goals and assists.
I haven't seen all the action from either one but it would also make great entertainment.
We can then decide once we have watched all the coverage.

L'prof

syngindub wrote: »

what we need is to see is a video of each player this year. showing all goals and assists.
I haven't seen all the action from either one but it would also make great entertainment.
We can then decide once we have watched all the coverage.

Yeah, youtube ftw...

syngindub

jasonorr wrote: »

Yeah, youtube ftw...

is there a decent compilation of this years action on yt for each player?
Watched the messi hatrick earlier and it was stunning. His balance is genious, he's much faster than Diego. He has a lower centre of gravity than Rooney but it's hard to compare the two..they are very different style players.

Johner

That is all.

Peyton Manning

As ridiculous as it sounds, Messi - in a single week - has made so many people look foolish. I admitted it in the La Liga thread, but no amount of bias in the world could now make me try favour Rooney.

You better believe it folks, we are witnessing the greatest player the world has ever seen.

eZe^

Can't believe he's turned into such a complete goal scorer.

114 goals, 49 assists in 199 appearances. That includes his entire development period, which spanned 2004 - 2007, still only 22. Amazing. BPITW

Johner

eZe^ wrote: »

still only 22. Amazing.

Scary that he is still only 22! Jesus. :eek:

heavyballs

just had a big discussion (argument)about how good Messi is
i think he's the best ever,yes i know he hasn't won a world cup like Diego,

Gerry Armstrong who played with Best lots of times said tonight that Messi is at a different level than Best
what do you guys think.

and no maradona didn't win the world cup on his own,they only conceded 5 goals in the whole tournament so they obviosly had a good defence,

and imo he did no more for Napoli than Messi does for Barce,does anyone know how many goals Maradona scored for Napoli inthe 86/87 season,i can't find it

monkey9

eZe^ wrote: »

Can't believe he's turned into such a complete goal scorer.

114 goals, 49 assists in 199 appearances. That includes his entire development period, which spanned 2004 - 2007, still only 22. Amazing. BPITW

They're amazing stats

I was gonna turn it off after the third goal cos i couldn't take much more. It was just too good!

Ush1

As John Giles says you gotta judge them when their career is over. Messi is 22 and his potential has no limits....

applehunter

I think you are able to have conversations by yourself:D

Kristopherus

Archimedes wrote: »

As ridiculous as it sounds, Messi - in a single week - has made so many people look foolish. I admitted it in the La Liga thread, but no amount of bias in the world could now make me try favour Rooney.

You better believe it folks, we are witnessing the greatest player the world has ever seen.

+1. I have never seen anything like him. Absolutely magical. Miles ahead of Maradona or Georgie B., IMHO.

Mr. Presentable

Messi. He's fouled, he picks himself up. No swearing at the ref. No childish tantrums. I've never seen him starfish in the box to cheat the opposition.

So, even if all other things are equal (and they're not quite) being decent and honest and an ambassador for the game should swing it for him.

eZe^

monkey9 wrote: »

They're amazing stats

I was gonna turn it off after the third goal cos i couldn't take much more. It was just too good!

You know what's even more amazing? Look at his stats under Pep Guardiola;

89 appearances, 72 goals, 29 assists. He isn't even a CF....

Hala Messi!

Minstrel27

nipplenuts wrote: »

Messi. He's fouled, he picks himself up. No swearing at the ref. No childish tantrums. I've never seen him starfish in the box to cheat the opposition.

This is what I admire most about Him. No prima donna antics when things don't go his way.

heavyballs

Archimedes wrote: »

As ridiculous as it sounds, Messi - in a single week - has made so many people look foolish. I admitted it in the La Liga thread, but no amount of bias in the world could now make me try favour Rooney.

You better believe it folks, we are witnessing the greatest player the world has ever seen.

+1
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