Rooney v Messi

gustavo

It's fair to say these two and Cristiano are by some distance the best 3 players in the world on form,I'd love to have them all in the same team!

Warper

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Ronaldinho didn't win world player of the year 3 times because of his natural ability... he won it 3 times because he was the most important player to a very successful Barcelona team, he scored goals, he set up goals and dragged that team through to the CL. See the difference?

Ronaldinho won it 3 times because for 3 seasons he was the best player on the planet. Zidane and Ronaldo won it 3 times because they were the best in the world. Messi has been nominated the past 3 years for "the best player in the world", coming second twice and winning it once. He is 22 years old.

Rooney has never been nominated.

bit of a bogey

Warper wrote: »

Ronaldinho won it 3 times because for 3 seasons he was the best player on the planet. Zidane and Ronaldo won it 3 times because they were the best in the world. Messi has been nominated the past 3 years for "the best player in the world", coming second twice and winning it once. He is 22 years old.

Rooney has never been nominated.

I agree. This will be the first season where rooney is worthy of a nomination and is good enough to win it. Has been imense since ronaldo left.

At the mo, I'd have messi but rooney is running him close! All depends on how england perform in world cup!

Bodhisopha

bit of a bogey wrote: »

I agree. This will be the first season where rooney is worthy of a nomination and is good enough to win it. Has been imense since ronaldo left.

At the mo, I'd have messi but rooney is running him close! All depends on how england perform in world cup!

No, he is not good enough to win it this season. Perhaps if Messi didn't exist he would be, but as it stands, no.


Apart from being English, why is it that when Wayne Rooney goes on a fantastic run of form he is top 3 in the world, but when someone like Torres performs to a similar level they are simply "one of the best strikers" in the world?

I'm not knocking Rooney, he is a great player, but is it unreasonable to suggest Torres would have been able to score those goals had he been a United player this season?

bit of a bogey

Bodhisopha wrote: »

No, he is not good enough to win it this season. Perhaps if Messi didn't exist he would be, but as it stands, no.


Apart from being English, why is it that when Wayne Rooney goes on a fantastic run of form he is top 3 in the world, but when someone like Torres performs to a similar level they are simply "one of the best strikers" in the world?

I'm not knocking Rooney, he is a great player, but is it unreasonable to suggest Torres would have been able to score those goals had he been a United player this season?

All I'm saying is that if Rooney continues the way he is going he'll have a great chance. Torres has had too much an interupted season and needs to be playing more consistantly. You cant be giving awards on the basis of so and so would have scored that! Although I would consider Torres as good as rooney, he would need to stay fit and healthy to be considered. At the moment rooney has twice the chance torres has of winning it!

Anyhow, it would still be messi for me!

andyman

Memnoch wrote: »

He did make the point. That being a fan of the beautiful game is far more important than being the fan of a "club." That any true fan of football will set aside their personal bias and prejudice when discussing a topic like this.

What personal bias and prejudice? I said Messi was a better player but I'd rather Rooney at my club at the moment because he's perfect to United's style of play. Right or wrong?

SlickRic

ha, i never thought when i started this the thread that it would last this long.

*can't decide whether to pat himself on the back or give himself a smack in the head*

me-skywalker

Boggles wrote: »

Wasn't Messi manufactured with growth hormones?

Lol I used that one before! haha

Ush1 wrote: »

Haha, so you're rating on what he can do? Then why doesn't he? So he CAN do what Messi can, just chooses not to? Brilliant. I won't even address the other things you said.

"IMO Messi is quicker and a much better dribbler, great close control." - This means Messi can take it past people where Rooney can't.

Seriously Ush1 how long have you started watching football? Do you get all your opinions sent in an email from Match magazine?

Ive no idea what you arguement is after reading the thread, you just seem to have counter points but no actual points.

Im on the Messi side of the arguement but Rooney is phenomenal Messi is on one level and Rooney,Ronaldo,Torres,Kaka,Drogba,Villa, Xavi, Fabregas, Gerard are all on the next level.

That does not take away form the level and quality of that second tier but Messi is what they would call in the NFL a hot-streak for the last 2years!

Ush1

me-skywalker wrote: »

Lol I used that one before! haha



Seriously Ush1 how long have you started watching football? Do you get all your opinions sent in an email from Match magazine?

Ive no idea what you arguement is after reading the thread, you just seem to have counter points but no actual points.

Im on the Messi side of the arguement but Rooney is phenomenal Messi is on one level and Rooney,Ronaldo,Torres,Kaka,Drogba,Villa, Xavi, Fabregas, Gerard are all on the next level.

That does not take away form the level and quality of that second tier but Messi is what they would call in the NFL a hot-streak for the last 2years!

To answer your first question, what does that have to with anything? Second, no I don't.

If you have no idea the point I'm making I think you may not have the intellectual capacity to have a debate with, or it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Good work, seriously.

joe123

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Although I would consider Torres as good as torres he would need to stay fit and healthy to be considered.

I would also agree Torres is as good as Torres. He really is that good.:p

Messi is the best footballer ive ever seen play.

Boskowski

Archimedes wrote: »

Cannavaro won it a few years ago. Its obvious that it wont be decided until after the World Cup. The Champions League will have a minor say too. Ronaldo is unfortunate that Madrid cant cut it in Europe and that Portugal are a bit - well - shíte. Messi is slightly disadvantaged in that they have a clinically insane manager at Argentina too.

How would you call it to be playing for England? :pac: An advantage?
I'd rather take my chances with Maradona...

Boskowski

Rooney is a very, very fine player. One of a kind. A real 'footie' like we say at home.

However, Messi is one of those that come along only every now and again. Like Pele, Maradona maybe Zico.

While being great I don't think Rooney is one of them guys. I don't see that flash of absolute excellence in him that makes him stand out from all the other players like Tiger Woods for example stands out from all the other golfers. That excellence that Pele and Maradona had. That excellence that makes people call him the Mozart of soccer and sh1t like that.

Messi definitely has all that.

me-skywalker

Ush1 wrote: »

To answer your first question, what does that have to with anything? Second, no I don't.

If you have no idea the point I'm making I think you may not have the intellectual capacity to have a debate with, or it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Good work, seriously.

*EDIT* I wont be sucked in, back in your cave.

I would be bothered but your not worth the effort... ZZZzzzzzzzzz

Ush1

me-skywalker wrote: »

See there you go again not actually answering the issue posed but building a strawman. I wont be sucked in, back in your cave.

What issue did you pose exactly to me that I didn't answer? My stance is clear on the original post, or is this the IQ kicking in again?

Mr Alan

Boskowski wrote: »

Rooney is a very, very fine player. One of a kind. A real 'footie' like we say at home.

However, Messi is one of those that come along only every now and again. Like Pele, Maradona maybe Zico.

While being great I don't think Rooney is one of them guys. I don't see that flash of absolute excellence in him that makes him stand out from all the other players like Tiger Woods for example stands out from all the other golfers. That excellence that Pele and Maradona had. That excellence that makes people call him the Mozart of soccer and sh1t like that.

Messi definitely has all that.

Good post.

5ForKeeps

Boskowski wrote: »

Rooney is a very, very fine player. One of a kind. A real 'footie' like we say at home.

However, Messi is one of those that come along only every now and again. Like Pele, Maradona maybe Zico.

While being great I don't think Rooney is one of them guys. I don't see that flash of absolute excellence in him that makes him stand out from all the other players like Tiger Woods for example stands out from all the other golfers. That excellence that Pele and Maradona had. That excellence that makes people call him the Mozart of soccer and sh1t like that.

Messi definitely has all that.

Think that sums it all up for me.

PHB

I think Messi or Ronaldo still have another level to go before they get to Pele or Mardonna levels. I think Ronaldo needs to get at least two more 40 goal+ seasons to get there. Ultimately, for one of them to get there, they need to drag their country to the world cup I think.

JPA

PHB wrote: »

I think Messi or Ronaldo still have another level to go before they get to Pele or Mardona levels. I think Ronaldo needs to get at least two more 40 goal+ seasons to get there. Ultimately, for one of them to get there, they need to drag their country to the world cup I think.

Well Maradona has never had a season like Messi had last year and is having this year. But I do think Messi has to make a big impact at the WC to really get into the consciousness of people as a truly great player. Not that is the criteria for a great player as such but that is what he needs to considered by the majority to be in the same league as him.

As for Ronaldo, well I think he needs to evolve his game a bit more to become more of a team player, ala Figo. Of course he has more goals in his locker than Figo ever did but no player can win tournaments alone and I think he needs to be a bit less selfish. You might say well he has proved he can do it alone but in a team like Portugal he won't get the same chances and will need to work harder.

Mr.Nice Guy

JPA wrote:

But I do think Messi has to make a big impact at the WC to really get into the consciousness of people as a truly great player.

Yeah I'd agree with that. The casual sports fan would still not be aware of how exceptional he is but if he does his stuff at the World Cup then that should change.

I'd love to see him take the tournament by storm and score some special goals. I think if he does so he will enter into the mainstream sporting consciousness.

eZe^

The thing that I've noticed about Messi is that even when he was 17 and just starting out in the Barca first team, you literally knew you were watching someone spectacular. And I'm not saying this is the first time people have witnessed this with a youngster, but the difference was, Messi consistently fcuked up as a youngster in matches, continually making mistakes, but despite that, he still had this aura where you knew he was something special.

Up until last season (arguably maybe the season before), Messi was a headless chicken, he tried to do too much all the time, he was naive. He'd try to beat 6 defenders at once instead of laying the ball off to his team mates, anytime he came within 20 yards of the goal he'd take on a shot which was easily blocked. Despite watching a player who was naive, and made so many mistakes that an experienced international would laugh at, anyone watching knew he was special. I mean, I remember my friend saying to me that because of Messi Argentina could win WC06 - this was despite him being out for months with a bad injury, and the fact he was still only 19.

I've never seen such a wide audience acknowledge the true brilliance of a young player as people did with Messi. The fact that he is on course for scoring 38+ goals in two consecutive seasons is ridiculous, especially when you couple the fact he creates and isn't a CF. I'm delighted to be able to watch him every week, and I hope he goes on to be remembered like the Zidanes/ Ronaldos/ Peles/ Maradona's of the sport. That's just my 2c, I think he is better than Rooney, but I don't like the way people have to resort to belittling Rooney just because they think Messi is better (or vice versa). Surely it's more impressive to believe Messi is better than an utterly fantastic Rooney, and in that respect we should be praising both of these players as much as possible. Belittling Rooney doesn't make Messi better, it just makes his stature look less meaningful if anything!

Liam O

eZe^ wrote: »

The thing that I've noticed about Messi is that even when he was 17 and just starting out in the Barca first team, you literally knew you were watching someone spectacular. And I'm not saying this is the first time people have witnessed this with a youngster, but the difference was, Messi consistently fcuked up as a youngster in matches, continually making mistakes, but despite that, he still had this aura where you knew he was something special.

Up until last season (arguably maybe the season before), Messi was a headless chicken, he tried to do too much all the time, he was naive. He'd try to beat 6 defenders at once instead of laying the ball off to his team mates, anytime he came within 20 yards of the goal he'd take on a shot which was easily blocked. Despite watching a player who was naive, and made so many mistakes that an experienced international would laugh at, anyone watching knew he was special. I mean, I remember my friend saying to me that because of Messi Argentina could win WC06 - this was despite him being out for months with a bad injury, and the fact he was still only 19.

I've never seen such a wide audience acknowledge the true brilliance of a young player as people did with Messi. The fact that he is on course for scoring 38+ goals in two consecutive seasons is ridiculous, especially when you couple the fact he creates and isn't a CF. I'm delighted to be able to watch him every week, and I hope he goes on to be remembered like the Zidanes/ Ronaldos/ Peles/ Maradona's of the sport. That's just my 2c, I think he is better than Rooney, but I don't like the way people have to resort to belittling Rooney just because they think Messi is better (or vice versa). Surely it's more impressive to believe Messi is better than an utterly fantastic Rooney, and in that respect we should be praising both of these players as much as possible. Belittling Rooney doesn't make Messi better, it just makes his stature look less meaningful if anything!

A lot of what you say there could apply to Ronaldo too tbh, and he is showing that he's finding La Liga a tad easier than the Premier League to play in with a better goals to game ratio than he ever had for United even with a couple of injuries. The Premier League is a more defensive league and that may not show in the goals scored stats but it shows when you watch them both.

I've got a question for everyone, there was a thread a few weeks ago where it showed Paddy McCourt beat about 5 players and score a goal and it was dismissed as bad defending. How come on Sunday when the Zaragoza defending was atrocious it is considered one of the greatest goals ever. McGeady regularly beats a bunch of players but that again is dismissed as bad defending.

This is to take nothing away from Messi as he is a spectacular player but people really are getting a bit ahead of themselves with this greatest of all time stuff. The only way to judge the legendary players from the great players is in the WC when they are all on the same level imo. Obviously you can put a bit of stock in their club form but the fact is that people remember the Maradonas, the Peles and the Cruyffs for their exploits in the WC. They are separated from George Best and the likes because of this.

leninbenjamin

Liam O wrote: »

I've got a question for everyone, there was a thread a few weeks ago where it showed Paddy McCourt beat about 5 players and score a goal and it was dismissed as bad defending. How come on Sunday when the Zaragoza defending was atrocious it is considered one of the greatest goals ever. McGeady regularly beats a bunch of players but that again is dismissed as bad defending.

You're not the only one who's noticed this. Having heard the reaction to the goal, how in some places it was called the best goal of the season, when I actually saw it my first thoughts were "Nasri went by an extra man."

Mitch Connor

leninbenjamin wrote: »

You're not the only one who's noticed this. Having heard the reaction to the goal, how in some places it was called the best goal of the season, when I actually saw it my first thoughts were "Nasri went by an extra man."

It wasn't even Messi's best goal imo.

Ush1

I already posted this article by Sid Lowe in the Messi Appreciation thread but I'll post it here as I think it may clear up some things with regards the consistency of Messi's genius, rather than scoring just a brilliant goal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/mar/22/leo-messi-barcelona-la-liga-spain

Late last night, on the ape-house shouting-fest that is Punto Pelota, Pedro Pablo San Martín turned on his fellow guests, accusing them of "popping Viagra", shouting: "Stop going on about him all the time! It's only Zaragoza!"

Only, it's not. And that is the point. It's not only Zaragoza, it's everyone else too. It's every game. For Barcelona, at least. One of the incredible things about Messi is how rarely he disappoints. In fact, it's tempting to conclude that he has made the ridiculous so routine that he doesn't get talked about as much as deserves; playing perfectly is hardly news. It was not just Zaragoza, it was the fact that Messi has now scored two La Liga hat-tricks in a row, after an astonishingly brilliant three against Valencia last week. It was the fact that, until he handed the ball to Ibrahimovic, he had scored Barcelona's last nine goals. It was the display against Stuttgart that prompted Christian Gross to admit: "Comparing him to Maradona is perfectly licit now." It was the eight in a week. The 11 in five games. The free-kick against Almería – so subtle, so stupidly soft you wonder if he was wearing slippers. And playing with a balloon. The 25 in the league already, the 34 in all competitions.

It's not just the goals either. When it comes to the inevitable and often tedious comparisons with Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the things that is often said about Messi is that he is not as complete. Earlier this season the pro-Real Madrid newspaper Marca asked the man who had just published a glossy, club-sponsored biography of Ronaldo to do a comparison of Ronaldo and Messi in the midst of its campaign to beatify the Portuguese – and get pictures of him with his top off on their cover as often as possible. Surprise, surprise, Ronaldo won. He scored higher than Messi in heading, speed, shooting, leadership, physical condition, and free-kicks and penalties, scoring the same in technique and passing.

It was not a new conclusion. In England too Ronaldo is invariably described as more complete than Messi – stronger, faster, bigger, more athletic. But aren't they all part of the same package, an obsession with physical strength? Isn't that a pretty incomplete reading of complete? Last season Messi scored twice as many Champions League goals with half as many shots. This season, Messi is the league's top scorer with 10 more than Ronaldo, has provided more assists than anyone else (Ronaldo is not in the top 20) and has completed more passes than any other attacker. He hasn't even taken any penalties.

Yes, they were acting like they were on Viagra. But, no, it wasn't just Zaragoza. It is everything Messi has done throughout his career. The 79 goals in 129 games. The two European Cups and three league titles. If he was not already the best player in the world in his first three seasons – 30 goals in 60 games – it's because of injury. Every season, he missed at least 10 matches. But when he played there were special moments. That unbelievable hat-trick against Real Madrid. That Getafe goal. The pair of destructions of Atlético Madrid. The naturalness with which he took over from Ronaldinho – every bit as much the messiah but not such a naughty boy.

eZe^

Liam O wrote: »

A lot of what you say there could apply to Ronaldo too tbh, and he is showing that he's finding La Liga a tad easier than the Premier League to play in with a better goals to game ratio than he ever had for United even with a couple of injuries. The Premier League is a more defensive league and that may not show in the goals scored stats but it shows when you watch them both.

I've got a question for everyone, there was a thread a few weeks ago where it showed Paddy McCourt beat about 5 players and score a goal and it was dismissed as bad defending. How come on Sunday when the Zaragoza defending was atrocious it is considered one of the greatest goals ever. McGeady regularly beats a bunch of players but that again is dismissed as bad defending.

This is to take nothing away from Messi as he is a spectacular player but people really are getting a bit ahead of themselves with this greatest of all time stuff. The only way to judge the legendary players from the great players is in the WC when they are all on the same level imo. Obviously you can put a bit of stock in their club form but the fact is that people remember the Maradonas, the Peles and the Cruyffs for their exploits in the WC. They are separated from George Best and the likes because of this.

I disagree on the C. Ronaldo comparisons, when Ronaldo was starting out, you could see the talent, but he frustrated fans no end. He not only had bad decision making but he was also had a very childish demeanor when things weren't going his way. The raw talent was always there, but he never had the same wow factor that Messi seems to universally get praise for.

And Ush1 remarked perfectly on the differences between Messi and McGeady. Messi does it every game, Lyon last year, Bayern Munich last year, Stuttgart this year, Valencia this year, Madrid twice last year, Atletico Madrid last year, Deportivo last year, Zaragoza 2 years ago, Real Madrid 3 years ago, Atletico Madrid 3 years ago, Getafe 3 years ago, the list is endless mate. He makes these breathtaking attacks every single game without fail, it doesn't matter who it's against. I don't even really see the point in arguing the merits of Messi vs McGeady. Zlatan Ibrahimovic's famous goal for Ajax will always be remembered as a top top goal, regardless of the fact it was against Nac Breda.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

You're not the only one who's noticed this. Having heard the reaction to the goal, how in some places it was called the best goal of the season, when I actually saw it my first thoughts were "Nasri went by an extra man."

Messi hounded a defender at the half way line, outmuscled him, accelerated, stopped the ball on a dime, put a defender on his ass, and then made two defenders in the penalty area look clueless, twice, before beating the keeper. Nasri beat 3 players in his goal, Messi beat 4... Infact, when Messi is taking his shot in the penalty area there are 3 defenders around him, the same amount as Nasri. The only thing better about Nasri's goal imo is that it's against Porto.

applehunter

McCourt is to Messi as McGeady is to c. Ronaldo.

gimmick

applehunter wrote: »

McCourt is to Messi as McGeady is to c. Ronaldo.

Haha, how in the name of Chrsit did Aidan fúcking McGeady get mentioned in this thread?

Bloody hell.

syngindub

used to laugh at the celtic fans raving about McGeady years ago

leninbenjamin

eZe^ wrote: »

Messi hounded a defender at the half way line, outmuscled him, accelerated, stopped the ball on a dime, put a defender on his ass, and then made two defenders in the penalty area look clueless, twice, before beating the keeper. Nasri beat 3 players in his goal, Messi beat 4... Infact, when Messi is taking his shot in the penalty area there are 3 defenders around him, the same amount as Nasri. The only thing better about Nasri's goal imo is that it's against Porto.

He hounded a defender who had already passed the ball to him to be fair, then jinked one defender (who for some reason threw himself into a sliding tackle), jinked another twice on the edge of the box (the double turn was beautiful) and shot past the last. So yeah, he got the best of 4 defenders, but he only actually went by two with the ball at his feet which was why i said 2 vs. 3.

But the thing is that because he picks it up on the halfway there is so much more space between the defenders, much easier to go by people than when they are all cluttered together. Not to take anything away from it, but I just prefer goals that are worked in a much tighter space and don't really understand the hype around ones like the above.

Btw, i wasn't trying to argue Nasri's was a better goal, just that while they were similar in some respects, Messi's was hailed as outstanding, and Nasri's was put down to bad defending.

eZe^

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Btw, i wasn't trying to argue Nasri's was a better goal, just that while they were similar in some respects, Messi's was hailed as outstanding, and Nasri's was put down to bad defending.

Whoever said Nasri's goal was down to bad defending is silly. That goal was a thing of beauty, one of the goals of the season for sure, was blown away watching it live.

Mr. Presentable

Messi, C Ronaldo, Rooney, are all exceptional players. Messi ahead of the others. But none is comparable to the greats like Maradona or Pele (6 WC goals at 17yo).

Personally, there has not been a true icon since Maradona, though there have been a few greats, such as the aforementioned, Zidane, Platini, Sanchez, Maldini etc. Maybe there never will be another as the game becomes more athletics focused, and less technical.

Bubs101

Since when did Rooney leapfrog Ronaldo?

Mr. Presentable

Bubs101 wrote: »

Since when did Rooney leapfrog Ronaldo?

@ me?

He didn't. I just didn't think I needed to list everyone.

Bodhisopha

nipplenuts wrote: »

Messi, C Ronaldo, Rooney, are all exceptional players. Messi ahead of the others. But none is comparable to the greats like Maradona or Pele (6 WC goals at 17yo).

Personally, there has not been a true icon since Maradona, though there have been a few greats, such as the aforementioned, Zidane, Platini, Sanchez, Maldini etc. Maybe there never will be another as the game becomes more athletics focused, and less technical.

On what basis is Messi not comparable to Maradona? There are a lot of comparisons to be drawn between the pair, naturally, and at this stage of his career Messi has achieved more than Maradona did aged 22. However, now is not the time for the final judgement against such greats.

Liam O

Bubs101 wrote: »

Since when did Rooney leapfrog Ronaldo?

The thing I want to know is, what has Ronaldo done to not be on equal footing to Messi?

Bodhisopha

Liam O wrote: »

The thing I want to know is, what has Ronaldo done to not be on equal footing to Messi?

Match him for goals and assists in the same league i suppose. Outside of stats, if you actually watch the matches it's evident that Barcelona are underperforming this year by their own high standards (in comparison to last season) and are really dependent on Messi. Over dependent. Real have been doing fine during Ronaldos suspensions this season.

Bubs101

nipplenuts wrote: »

@ me?

No, was a reference to the thread title. I mean Ronaldo and Messi are on another planet right now. Rooney's having a good season

eZe^

Liam O wrote: »

The thing I want to know is, what has Ronaldo done to not be on equal footing to Messi?

What did Theirry Henry not do so that he is on the same level as Van Basten/ Ronaldo. He achieved more honours then both of them, and has been successful for a longer period of time, but the other two were just on that tier above him, the tier with Zidane/ Maldini/ Pele/ etc... It's that simple (in my mind anyway).

flahavaj

Liam O wrote: »

The thing I want to know is, what has Ronaldo done to not be on equal footing to Messi?

He's not as good an all round footballer.

He's brilliant but Messi is a once in a lifetime player.

ShamoBuc

Liam O wrote: »

The thing I want to know is, what has Ronaldo done to not be on equal footing to Messi?

I'm not sure there is anything Ronaldo CAN do to be on an equal footing to Messi. As good as Ronaldo is I do not think he will ever be at the level Messi is.

Liam O

flahavaj wrote: »

He's not as good an all round footballer.

He's brilliant but Messi is a once in a lifetime player.

really? What is lacking in Ronaldo's game that Messi possesses? Ronaldo is a very complete footballer and is physically better than Messi.

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I'm not sure there is anything Ronaldo CAN do to be on an equal footing to Messi. As good as Ronaldo is I do not think he will ever be at the level Messi is.

can you explain your point please?

flahavaj

Liam O wrote: »

really? What is lacking in Ronaldo's game that Messi possesses? Ronaldo is a very complete footballer and is physically better than Messi.

Passing ability for a start. Compare their assists records over the years. Look at the way Nessi contributes to general play and the build up to goals, whereas take Ronaldo's goals away and often he has little effect on a game.

Messi is an inherently unselfish player whereas Ronaldo is prone to frustrating self indulgence at times.

d22ontour

nipplenuts wrote: »

Messi, C Ronaldo, Rooney, are all exceptional players. Messi ahead of the others.

True.

nipplenuts wrote: »

But none is comparable to the greats like Maradona.

So you are of the opinion that Maradona was a better player than Messi from the ages of 18-22 ? Please elaborate on that. :rolleyes:

nipplenuts wrote: »

Personally, there has not been a true icon since Maradona,

Considering the average career was around 12 years back then, can you enlighten me on the 12 years but without using the years 1983-87 ? :rolleyes:

nipplenuts wrote: »

though there have been a few greats, such as the aforementioned

nipplenuts wrote: »

Zidane

You heard of him before Juve ?

nipplenuts wrote: »

Platini

Ditto ?

nipplenuts wrote: »

Sanchez

Interesting... :cool:

nipplenuts wrote: »

Maldini

Football legend. :cool:

Liam O

flahavaj wrote: »

Passing ability for a start. Compare their assists records over the years. Look at the way Nessi contributes to general play and the build up to goals, whereas take Ronaldo's goals away and often he has little effect on a game.

Messi is an inherently unselfish player whereas Ronaldo is prone to frustrating self indulgence at times.

Messi is extremely selfish too, they are on the field to score, not assist and in a season interrupted by injury and suspension Ronaldo has a better goals to games ratio than Messi and Rooney. That and he has been sharing the goals with Higuain who himself is on a great run of form. Nothing Ronaldo has done this season can be reason enough for him to be rated lower than last season and I believe he is as good as Messi and there is very little to distinguish them.

dreamers75

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I'm not sure there is anything Ronaldo CAN do to be on an equal footing to Messi. As good as Ronaldo is I do not think he will ever be at the level Messi is.

LOL

there is honestly no sense in that post, just because people dont like him or the team he plays for doesnt make a player any less of a superstar.

Ronaldo is proven gold in football terms, 24 and won the hardest league in the world once or twice and a CL :rolleyes: but LOL Rooney gets compared to messi after 1 good decent season

i love this forum

flahavaj

Liam O wrote: »

Messi is extremely selfish too, they are on the field to score, not assist and in a season interrupted by injury and suspension Ronaldo has a better goals to games ratio than Messi and Rooney. That and he has been sharing the goals with Higuain who himself is on a great run of form. Nothing Ronaldo has done this season can be reason enough for him to be rated lower than last season and I believe he is as good as Messi and there is very little to distinguish them.

Seriously flawed argument,surely doing both is preferable to predominantly doing just the one?

You're basically rating their ability on goalscoring alone which is amazingly short sighted.

Liam O

dreamers75 wrote: »

LOL

there is honestly no sense in that post, just because people dont like him or the team he plays for doesnt make a player any less of a superstar.

Ronaldo is proven gold in football terms, 24 and won the hardest league in the world once or twice and a CL :rolleyes: but LOL Rooney gets compared to messi after 1 good decent season

i love this forum

Ronaldo is 25 :rolleyes: just kidding

Anyway, I don't like this myth that this is Rooney's first 'decent' (lol) season. He has been playing very well in recent seasons just playing as a support striker with no real burden on him to be the go too guy and has shown he always had that ability this season. Still a bit to go before he is up there with Messi and Ronaldo but he is working his way up there.

flahavaj wrote: »

Seriously flawed argument,surely doing both is preferable to predominantly doing just the one?

You're basically rating their ability on goalscoring alone which is amazingly short sighted.

I suppose but the assist stats in football don't really appeal much to me because a player e.g. Xavi could player a brilliant through ball that gets Messi and Ibra for example clear of the defense. Messi then plays an easy 2 yard pass and Ibra gets a tap in. I would class Xavi as setting up that goal but Messi would get the assist. If it's a good cross and it's headed in then fair enough but the assist stats can be kind of boosted in ways like that.

dreamers75

Liam O wrote: »

Ronaldo is 25 :rolleyes: just kidding

Anyway, I don't like this myth that this is Rooney's first 'decent' (lol) season. He has been playing very well in recent seasons just playing as a support striker with no real burden on him to be the go too guy and has shown he always had that ability this season. Still a bit to go before he is up there with Messi and Ronaldo but he is working his way up there.

No its seems to be Rooney or Messi, people seem to forget the world record transfer lad who is banging them in for the greatest team in the world.

a bit strange tbh Rooney has had 7(liam o will correct me on this:) ) seasons to be this good yet failed 6 times but cos hes english and plays for man utd hes now as good as messi and somehow better than Ronaldo :eek:

hes a decent player who works hard and will create a chance out of nothing or is that the old rooney? the new one seems to be finishing them.

d22ontour

dreamers75 wrote: »

Rooney gets compared to messi after 1 good decent season

i love this forum

Nobody is as good as Messi is, Phact !!!
He,if he gives us another 6/8 seasons of the same standard will see him regarded as the greatest footballer ever imo.
Rooney 1 good decent season, regardless of smiley is bull.Rooney isn't and will never be as good technically as the others mentioned but has many other attributes which are just as/if not moreso important to their current teams success.Football isn't just about scoring/assisting goals.

Liam O

dreamers75 wrote: »

No its seems to be Rooney or Messi, people seem to forget the world record transfer lad who is banging them in for the greatest team in the world.

a bit strange tbh Rooney has had 7(liam o will correct me on this:) ) seasons to be this good yet failed 6 times but cos hes english and plays for man utd hes now as good as messi and somehow better than Ronaldo :eek:

hes a decent player who works hard and will create a chance out of nothing or is that the old rooney? the new one seems to be finishing them.

The thing is that this is the first season that Rooney hasn't had somebody there to finish the chances that he creates. He had Van Nistelrooy and Ronaldo so never really had to be the main goalscorer and was instead the provider. Rooney laid the foundations for Ronaldo to build the house for want of a better analogy and was as important as Ronaldo to United's success imo. He has shown that he can play whatever role he is given and do it well. His assists are well down this season on recent years and this shows his change in focus.