My first crash!

lyders

After a few near misses cycling the streets of London, I've had a nasty collision with a van this morning. Police/Ambulance called and spent my morning in Chelsea Hospital. Banged up my right shoulder quite badly, but thankfully no fractures, just some ligament damage. Terribly painful, hoping it will heal quickly, i've a race in two weeks!!

Anyway, my whole point of posting is that i'd like your opinion on the circumstances of the collision. So here we go:

I was coming up on the inside to a big enough junction. I was planning to turn left. The light was green so I was just going straight for it. I stuck out my arm to indicate. I did see the van a head of me indicating to turn left. I thought he was turning left at the main junction too. But he was planning to take a left down a small lane just before the lights. As i passed him on the inside, he started to turn. I hit his door and took his mirror out before landing on my shoulder.

So my questions are: Was I correct to keep travelling on the inside? Should I have stopped to let him turn?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Beasty

Hope you are OK lyders. Hopefully your experience of London casualty is a bit better than mine of the Beaumont:)

Unfortunately I think you were in the wrong here. The van was indicating left, which means they intend taking the next left, and you should not assume they were going on to what was actually the next but one left. As soon as they indicate it is dangerous taking up any space on the inside, as they could simply be pulling up. Until they do pull up, I would not look to pull alongside them on teh inside

Obviously the van-driver could have been a bit more prepared and used his mirrors better, but you could easily have been in a blind spot, and it is difficult to put the blame at his door

blorg

You probably should have hung back as much out of self-preservation as anything else. He should have looked out for you also before turning as well but I wouldn't go up the inside of a van indicating they were turning left personally. It would be a different story if he overtook you and then immediately turned left but it sounds like you were undertaking him.

Hope you get well soon and chalk it up to experience.

Limestone1

lyders wrote: »

So my questions are: Was I correct to keep travelling on the inside? Should I have stopped to let him turn?

Well if you'd stopped , you wouldn't have hit him so yes that would have been the best thing to do !

Even if he was turning left at the main junction where you thought he was going to turn, you should be hanging back and let him complete the turn. Any kind of undertaking manouevre of left turning traffic is highly dangerous as you are often in a blind spot plus you don't know how wide he is going to take the turn. Also , just watch traffic in general as drivers approach a junction where they will be turning left - they will often drift left in the lane they are in. You can often tell if a car will be turning left before it indicates by observing this behaviour.

seamus

There's a similar junction here: http://tinyurl.com/yad3zcq

Traffic coming south on Patrick St will often indicate left from waaay back, and very occasionally, someone decides to go down St. Patrick's close. The left turn isn't all that obvious unless you know the area - it actually looks like an entrance to something, so you wouldn't ordinarily expect traffic to turn.
Surprised I haven't seen more bikes sideswiped there.

Good to hear you're not seriously hurt lyders.

lyders

I'll be more aware in future! Guess my thinking was that I would have got to the left turn before him, so didn't think twice before going inside him.

Bunnyhopper

Hope you get well soon.

Sounds 50:50 to me, as others have said - you might have hung back, he might have used his mirror.

@seamus To make that St. Patrick's Close example even more confusing there's an "access only" restriction on that left turn at some times of day (I think).

jwshooter

lucky it was a van not a truck ,you could have slipped under a wheel.

you have a good excuse to watch the cycling live.

superrdave

It does sound like you might have been in the wrong. If you were level with him for a while or if he had just overtaken you (like in the last 100 yds) he may have a case to answer. Either way, I don't think there is any criminal liability on his part and not really much in the way of civil either. From the limited amount I know, I'd guess it's a 50/50 case and no court is going to give you anything. I suppose you could talk to your solicitor and see what he says but for the hassle of it, when all you suffered was a morning in casualty off work and a sore shoulder, it might not be worth it. It's up to you but from what you've said I think it's just an unfortunate accident where neither of you did much wrong but neither were you particular careful.

lyders

Yeah I agree. Think i was incredibly lucky to get off this lightly, and I think the bike is ok too. Just got to keep my eyes open on the road and not make stupid assumptions

Tau

I think as a general rule, never going up the inside of anything indicating left is a good one.

DirkVoodoo

Glad to hear you are ok, but the guys are right, steer clear of anything indicating left and especially clear of anything taller than you. It only costs you a few seconds but you will stay in one piece

cdaly_

I guess the van driver will have got a fright too and will, hopefully, be more aware of bikes in future too...

lyders

cdaly_ wrote: »

I guess the van driver will have got a fright too and will, hopefully, be more aware of bikes in future too...

Yeah he was pretty shook up. Called me a few times today to make sure I was ok.

blorg

That was nice of him. As others have said, it could be a lot worse, something like 75% of cyclists in Dublin were killed by going up the inside of HGVs turning left. Look after yourself.

BostonB

I think your both at fault, lack of observation on both parties. Genuine accident. It happens. Sorry to hear you're hurt.

lyders

blorg wrote: »

That was nice of him. As others have said, it could be a lot worse, something like 75% of cyclists in Dublin were killed by going up the inside of HGVs turning left. Look after yourself.

That's a scary statistic

Definitely learned my lesson.

jwshooter

lyders wrote: »

Yeah I agree. Think i was incredibly lucky to get off this lightly, and I think the bike is ok too. Just got to keep my eyes open on the road and not make stupid assumptions

assumptions ,are the mother of all f#ck ups

Jumpy

jwshooter wrote: »

assumptions ,are the mother of all f#ck ups

Not always I now assume that anything made of metal on the road is equivalent to an oil slick.

Lesson learned.

Alkers

Irregardless of whether you made the best choice here, is it not the case that the bicycle going straight on has right of way here and that he would be liable for any damage caused to your and your bike?
It's late and am probably not putting this into words very well but when you're driving a car, as you're indicating to turn left, if you see a cyclist you're supposed to come to a stop before the turn and let the cyclist continue passed you on the inside, BEFORE you can make the turn.
I'm not suggesting you should ever rely on a driver to do this though as if they don't you've no escape route.

BostonB

Rules of the road for cyclists...

Do not take up a position on the 'inside' of a large vehicle out of view of the driver. Instead, stay behind if the large vehicle has stopped at a junction with the intention of turning left.

For drivers

When turning left, all drivers, especially drivers of heavy goods vehicles, must watch out for cyclists and motorcyclists going ahead or turning. On left turns, watch out for cyclists and mopeds close to the kerb in front of you or coming up on your left. Do not overtake a cyclist as you approach a junction if you are turning left; the cyclist might be continuing straight ahead.

From the OP

lyders wrote: »

....I did see the van a head of me indicating to turn left.....As i passed him on the inside,...

To me that saying the cyclist should stay behind and not undertake once a vehicle in front is indicating left. In this case the vehicle was definately in front.

BostonB

Simona1986 wrote: »

... is it not the case that the bicycle going straight on has right of way here and that he would be liable for any damage caused to your and your bike?....

In general, risking crashing into a truck with your body, is to be avoided, regardless if it you think it proves your point.

Alkers

BostonB wrote: »

In general, risking crashing into a truck with your body, is to be avoided, regardless if it you think it proves your point.

Agreed, but if the damage has been done and IF technically the van driver was at fault, the OP would be able to claim off the van driver if s/he was injured.
Also from the OPs post, was the van stationary prior to the incident - moving off to turn left, or did it turn left while it was already moving along and the OP was simply moving faster?

In any case, the point is, the lesson has probably been learned but if technically the van driver was at fault, the OP may be able to minimise his/her suffering due to the accident by getting any repairs to themselves and their bike paid for!

BostonB

What was posted was very clear. IMO.

Gavin

Simona1986 wrote: »

In any case, the point is, the lesson has probably been learned but if technically the van driver was at fault, the OP may be able to minimise his/her suffering due to the accident by getting any repairs to themselves and their bike paid for!

Poor show.

blorg

Simona1986 wrote: »

Irregardless of whether you made the best choice here, is it not the case that the bicycle going straight on has right of way here and that he would be liable for any damage caused to your and your bike?
It's late and am probably not putting this into words very well but when you're driving a car, as you're indicating to turn left, if you see a cyclist you're supposed to come to a stop before the turn and let the cyclist continue passed you on the inside, BEFORE you can make the turn.

Arguable if there was a cycle lane up the inside and the cyclist was proceeding along that. Absolutely not if there was no cycle lane, a cyclist undertaking would be very much in the wrong there.

Lumen

Why are cycle lanes on the left hand side of the road?

Caroline_ie

You'll probably hurt all over today. I hope you are ok though. Make sure you don't wait too long before getting back on the bike. When I got hit last year, I was back on the bike ( and very sore ) the next morning and it was scary, but I got over it quite quick that way.

lyders

Caroline_ie wrote: »

You'll probably hurt all over today. I hope you are ok though. Make sure you don't wait too long before getting back on the bike. When I got hit last year, I was back on the bike ( and very sore ) the next morning and it was scary, but I got over it quite quick that way.

Not feeling too bad today. Don't have much movement in my shoulder though, so it'll be a few days before i hop back on the bike. I also have to collect it from the police!

lyders

blorg wrote: »

Arguable if there was a cycle lane up the inside and the cyclist was proceeding along that. Absolutely not if there was no cycle lane, a cyclist undertaking would be very much in the wrong there.

No cycle lane. As I said before, the only reason i went up the inside was because I thought he was stopped in the queue of left turning traffic. Hopefully won't make that mistake again.

lyders

BostonB wrote: »

In general, risking crashing into a truck with your body, is to be avoided, regardless if it you think it proves your point.

Does anybody do that on purpose??

BostonB

lyders wrote: »

Does anybody do that on purpose??

Some people definately ride/walk like thats their attitude. I'll bet they don't do it twice though...

BostonB

lyders wrote: »

No cycle lane. As I said before, the only reason i went up the inside was because I thought he was stopped in the queue of left turning traffic. Hopefully won't make that mistake again.

Hopefully the driver will check more carefully too.

Bunnyhopper

BostonB wrote: »

Rules of the road for cyclists...

The UK Highway Code (so more relevant to an accident in London) does say "Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left" (59), and for vehicles turning left it says "When turning … give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction" (159).

So the presence of a cycle lane would make a difference there, but there's still not much fun in being right and under a truck.

The main thing is that the OP is okay and recovers.

blorg

lyders wrote: »

No cycle lane. As I said before, the only reason i went up the inside was because I thought he was stopped in the queue of left turning traffic. Hopefully won't make that mistake again.

It's an easy mistake to make; I would avoid going up the inside even if there is a cycle lane.

I have been hit myself that way although in my case it was an overtake and immediate left turn across me. Have also been hit overtaking stopped traffic on the right when someone made a sudden swing right (no indicator) into a driveway. More careful now.

Yes drivers should look before turning but if they don't you are going to come off worst irrespective of who is in the right.

Get well soon and safe cycling.

CramCycle

Glad to hear your OK.

First rules of the road though "trust no one", so said my driving instructor, valuable lesson.

Also fair play to the driver for checking up on you. In all my collisions, some my fault, some theirs, it's very rare to get them to care about the person lying on the road. I always appreciate it when they care more about you than their car/van/time.

Hell, I think I recover quicker in those cases,

Alkers

Gavin wrote: »

Poor show.

Why poor show? If someone drove into the back of your car would you not claim from their insurance to pay for the repairs?

As Blorg pointed out, the point I was arguing is only valid if there was a cycle lane on the inside where the van turned left, the above incident could also very easily have happen in this case.

BostonB

Cycle lane or not, bad idea for your health to undertake something indicating left.

Alkers

BostonB wrote: »

Cycle lane or not, bad idea for your health to undertake something indicating left.

I never said otherwise...

brianthebard

lyders wrote: »

After a few near misses cycling the streets of London, I've had a nasty collision with a van this morning. Police/Ambulance called and spent my morning in Chelsea Hospital. Banged up my right shoulder quite badly, but thankfully no fractures, just some ligament damage. Terribly painful, hoping it will heal quickly, i've a race in two weeks!!

Sorry to hear about the accident, make sure you get the ligament damage checked out by a good physio that sort of stuff can be difficult to heal properly especially if rehab is not vigorously followed from the beginning. The shoulder is a complex joint with a web of different muscles and connecting tissues around it, so it is not the sort of thing that can be just half assed. Not saying you were going to, just emphasising that you really need to look after it.

lyders

brianthebard wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the accident, make sure you get the ligament damage checked out by a good physio that sort of stuff can be difficult to heal properly especially if rehab is not vigorously followed from the beginning. The shoulder is a complex joint with a web of different muscles and connecting tissues around it, so it is not the sort of thing that can be just half assed. Not saying you were going to, just emphasising that you really need to look after it.

Hopefully being a student and being covered by the NHS should help with this one!

brianthebard

Meant to add, try to see a sports therapist, I saw one through the uni here and they helped me with my back a lot. I dunno what college you're in but they might have a doctor's office? Good place to start if the hospital hasn't already suggested physio or put you in touch with someone.

Gavin

Simona1986 wrote: »

Why poor show? If someone drove into the back of your car would you not claim from their insurance to pay for the repairs?

I would. I wouldn't claim off them if I drove into the back of their car though. The OP admitted he was in the wrong. Encouraging him to look for damages on a technicality is dishonest.