Irish Rail Limerick-Nenagh-Roscrea-Ballybrophy

dowlingm

Hi folks, since a lot of the Nenagh stuff has been popping up in the Rosslare thread (albeit that there is some cross-connection from stuff like media articles) I thought I'd kick this off. It's been a long time since I used the Ballybrophy branch - almost 20 years in fact. However, the problems then are the problems now: a poor timetable with no direct service leaving you dumped on a platform in the middle of nowhere hoping the train would arrive. While jointed track is being replaced with CWR (including between Roscrea and Ballybrophy in 2008), it seems to be more to facilitate longer maintenance windows than increasing speeds.

At present, the time from when a train stops in Ballybrophy to arriving in Colbert is timetabled at 120 minutes - on the mainline via the Junction it can be done in 72 using an routing at least 15% longer! The speed limit in the 1970s was 116km/h on jointed track according to the IRRS. The Ballybrophy stop also impacts Dublin-South trains at one of the few places where we could expect trains to be going full-belt.

That said, Nenagh and Roscrea are not insignificant hamlets (7,415 and 4,910 respectively in 2006 excluding environs) and when the Athenry branch was disconnected service to Ennis was retained so I think there should be resistance to IE's rumoured plans to close the branch entirely until such time as the company is forced to at least try to run a decent service on all or part of the line, especially given the recent investment in CWR and in signalling changes at Nenagh to facilitate splitting the morning Ballybrophy train.

The major problem as I see it is time. BE's bus service is over 20% faster than IE's, comes closer to Annacotty, Plassey and Castletroy than IE's service and serves Portlaoise rather than a village in the middle of nowhere. IE have to get their times down to close to BE's if not better and concentrate on serving Limerick rather than the Dublin line in the short term. While there are many ways to approach this issue, mine would be pretty radical and occur in three phases.

Phase 1: (2010)

• Disconnect the line northbound at Nenagh.
• Complete CWR relaying on Killonan-Nenagh not yet done and bring into CTC.
• Continue the morning commuter service, although base the morning train and crew in Nenagh on the advance understanding that they may be relocated to Roscrea in Phase 2.
• Everything possible to be done to get the time from Nenagh to Colbert down from 62 mins to the 50 BE does it in (which is still only a trip speed of about 50km/h), and consider removing Birdhill as a stop to save time unless ridership is worth it. BE also serves Birdhill so they have an alternative.
• Lift the track between Borris-in-Ossory and Ballybrophy and sell the alignment, removing any residual bridges or other infrastructure requiring ongoing maintenance.
• Ballybrophy station to be put on use-it-or-lose-it status for no less than 6 months but no more than 12.
• Organise a feeder bus from a new halt at Lisnagry to Plassey tied to train arrivals/departures, instituted only when say 20 monthly ticket holders request it and/or with financial support from the TechPark/UL, or better still require that the 308 bus be extended to it during service hours. If it can be done to bring people to "Kildare Village Outlets" from the Portlaoise suburban...

Phase 2: (opening date 2012-14)

• Relay/resignal Nenagh-Roscrea with CWR and grade separate all LCs.
• Mothball Cloughjordan (pop. 783) unless the locals buy a minimum number of monthly tickets
• Change the signalling to allow trains to be started from Roscrea and ensure secure storage. Once done, start the morning commuter from Roscrea on the condition that it leave Nenagh at the same time as previously. Consider only allowing boarding on one car at Roscrea to ensure seats for Nenagh commuters who were keeping the service going. At this point it should be either 2x2700 or 275x+2700, with the two sets split during the day to allow refuelling/maintenance of one while the other shuttles to Nenagh, if possible around the times of Galway arrivals/departures.

Phase 3: (opening date 2018+, only if Phase 1/2 a roaring success)

• Construct a new northfacing grade separated direct curve north of Ballybrophy, ideally with a grade separated curve to the farside line to allow high speed bidirectional transfers without conflicting both lines. The transfer point for the Nenagh branch would then be Portlaoise, giving access to far more Dublin-bound connecting trains than Ballybrophy at present. It would be less advantageous for Cork/Tralee/Thurles bound passengers but there are likely to be fewer of those surely.
• The first train of the day ex Roscrea could then be advanced to serve early commuters and a train originating from Portlaoise (the 0615 ex Heuston arriving 0722 perhaps?) sent/extended to pick up the 9-9.30 crowd if journey speeds are sufficiently quick to make an realistic 0845 arrival.

mysterious

Thanks for that it should of been done years ago.

I personally think the Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy should be the main Limerick rail line if it were to be upgraded.

Judgement Day

Dowlingm - this is precisely what I have been advocating for the Nenagh branch for years and when Ballybrophy was redesigned back in the 1980s (by a CIE/IRRS member, I think) I was stunned that that the new layout was worse than the original. I have long held the belief that the only way to save Ballybrophy/Limerick is the north facing avoiding line/direct curve that you propose. However, I don't see the need to go at it quite as you suggest and surely there would be no reason to close the line prior to rebuilding it?
Anyway, you and I know that CIE/IE will never propose such a development. If Transport 21 had been thought out properly direct curves at Ballybrophy and the Killinick/Felthouse Jn (Sth.Wexford line) would have been two relatively cheap pieces of infrastructure to put in with much greater potential than the farcical WRC development.
In terms of increasing passenger numbers the reinstatement of the 5.75 mile Cashel branch would have been another worthwhile option, ditto Inny Jn/Cavan. When you think about the Cashel branch closure in 1954 it ranks right up there with the Harcourt Street and Waterford & Tramore in terms of stupidty - the savings must have absolutely minimal. None of your, or my, proposals will ever happen until some political party takes on CIE and winds the moribund concern up. I hear the sound of squadrons of flying pigs approaching as I type.

Victor

Haven't they just re-orientated the junction at Ballybrophy?

Judgement Day

Victor wrote: »

Haven't they just re-orientated the junction at Ballybrophy?

News to me. As far as I know just a bit of track renewal. Re-orientation would be major in terms of time and there would be lots of threads on IRN about it.

Transportuser09

Even without putting back the direct curve at Ballybrophy, as long as the line was relaid/signalled to modern standards, could a 22000 operated Limerick-Dublin service via Nenagh be quicker than the current route if it had to call at Ballybrophy and allow a few minutes to change direction. Might be a less expensive option than putting back the direct curve.

Judgement Day

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Even without putting back the direct curve at Ballybrophy, as long as the line was relaid/signalled to modern standards, could a 22000 operated Limerick-Dublin service via Nenagh be quicker than the current route if it had to call at Ballybrophy and allow a few minutes to change direction. Might be a less expensive option than putting back the direct curve.

There never was a direct curve at Ballybrophy that's part of the problem. Of course it would be cheaper to operate a 22000 as you suggest but if the route is to ever achieve any worthwhile role a direct curve is needed.

dowlingm

One of the reasons I would disconnect the existing line is to do a proper job of the upgrades - eliminate manual level crossings, ensure sufficient passing loops and so on. I'd rather do that than the usual IE way of keeping the line staggering on with closure after closure (see Limerick-Waterford, Cork-Cobh) so that you wonder if they are just bustituting for fun sometimes - plus declaring "Mission Accomplished" on a line that will have resignalling closures in its future (Limerick-Athenry, Glounthaune-Midleton).

In any case, I wouldn't let a 22K near the line until it was fully CWR - bad enough we're down three sets without running them over track in dire need of upgrade.

Transportuser09

dowlingm wrote: »

I'd rather do that than the usual IE way of keeping the line staggering on with closure after closure (see Limerick-Waterford, Cork-Cobh) so that you wonder if they are just bustituting for fun sometimes

Was Cork-Cobh up for closure at one point? I always thought it was a relatively profitable earner, at one point there was no bus to Cobh not sure if it is still the case.

Cookie_Monster

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Was Cork-Cobh up for closure at one point? I always thought it was a relatively profitable earner, at one point there was no bus to Cobh not sure if it is still the case.

i think he meant short term closure while upgrading/building, like shutting the DART down for all those weekends while station being extended

Transportuser09

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

i think he meant short term closure while upgrading/building, like shutting the DART down for all those weekends while station being extended

I see what you mean now.

Judgement Day

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Was Cork-Cobh up for closure at one point? I always thought it was a relatively profitable earner, at one point there was no bus to Cobh not sure if it is still the case.

As far as I know no railway in Ireland is profitable, certainly not the Cobh line which as you say has been proposed for closure in the past.

Transportuser09

Judgement Day wrote: »

As far as I know no railway in Ireland is profitable, certainly not the Cobh line which as you say has been proposed for closure in the past.

So Cork-Cobh was up for closure? In any case, I'd say Cork-Cobh is a bigger earner than Rosslare-Waterford/Limerick Junction and Ballybrophy-Limerick.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

As far as I know no railway in Ireland is profitable, certainly not the Cobh line which as you say has been proposed for closure in the past.

Ah come on, at least one of them must be.

DART must be fairly cheap to run at this stage, makes a lot of money...

Judgement Day

I tell a lie, perhaps the miniature railway in Tramore turns a profit? It's there for years and is privately operated.

This pic from Waterford County forum: http://omgili.com/jmp/jHIAmI4hxg9lYheV1JyURuvOBe_InyybFLnnC_1thcrVI34iGDe6d91Yv4F6eanxS9T6yTs6LfMUXYKOOiubt2watgoNpWGIZz6rBtomLsIOOYyb8phkr6ZSoEM2cae9Awj4ENjytMaudYQS3UojhPWBkVlC.QDfscUH5AxFt2hoBReuvNhE2Q--

dowlingm

poor choice of words above - I meant temporary service suspensions as Cookie said.

Transportuser09

Really though its hard to believe that no route in this country turns a profit.

dowlingm

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Really though its hard to believe that no route in this country turns a profit.

It's a bit like Hollywood - you never sign for a share of the net, only the gross, because the tax accountants make sure the net is miniscule. Similarly I'm sure there are ways of making the lines in question look bad.

Hungerford

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Was Cork-Cobh up for closure at one point? I always thought it was a relatively profitable earner, at one point there was no bus to Cobh not sure if it is still the case.

It was c. 1983. Apparently, Cork commuter services had absolutely no future. We can see how that panned out.

dowlingm

Spot the deliberate mistake
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0326/rail.html

Iarnród Éireann looks to lower operating costs
Friday, 26 March 2010 18:40

Iarnród Éireann has confirmed it is looking to lower their operating costs on a mid-west rail line.

The Nenagh to Limerick line was opened 18 months ago.

It was hoped at the time that over 360 passengers a day would use the service.

However Iarnród Eireann said today that the number of journeys per day is averaging at 80 and are now examining ways to cut costs by looking at simplification of signalling and examining using buses to cut costs.

The news comes as the company prepares to launch a new service from Limerick to Galway next week.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Spot the deliberate mistake
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0326/rail.html

Good old RTE don't you just love their lazy reporting? I always thought that the Limerick/Ballybrophy line opened in the 1860s.