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The Clerical Child Abuse Thread (merged)

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    #3122
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    i believe he did what the rest of us would have done.

    No decent person would of done what he did.

    You cannot claim moral high ground, or claim to be leaders of a flock, and then allow such heinous acts to go unpunished, purely for the sake of furthering your own career.


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    #3123
    gimme5minutes
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭gimme5minutes


    This is a win-win situation for people who view the RCC as a corrupt evil organisation. Either Brady stays and it reflects terribly on the church in Ireland to be headed by such a disgrace of a man, or he goes and it's another kick in the teeth of the church to have such a high ranking member forced to resign. Whether he goes or stays it reflects terribly on the church.

    But I think it would be better for the church for him to go, because at least they can say they are moving on when this scumbag is out of the picture. How can they claim to be moving on or have learned from past mistakes when they are headed by a man who could have prevented multiple cases of horrific child abuse but instead chose to prioritize his career.


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    #3124
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Another question is why didn't he put his hands up to this years ago, the clerical abuse scandal isn't new, he had ample oppurtunity to put this stuff out there thus avoiding further trauma for Boland who obviously had to make a huge decision to go public. Who knew that the Boland testimony existed? Who else in the church is sitting on info about similar cases to this one? Everything has to be dragged out of the secretive protective hypocrites.

    BTW, it's a rethorical question, I can hear his whining woe is me pathetic excuses, loud and clear.


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    #3125
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Another question is why didn't he put his hands up to this years ago, the clerical abuse scandal isn't new, he had ample oppurtunity to put this stuff out there thus avoiding further trauma for Boland who obviously had to make a huge decision to go public. Who knew that the Boland testimony existed? Who else in the church is sitting on info about similar cases to this one? Everything has to be dragged out of the secretive protective hypocrites.

    BTW, it's a rethorical question, I can hear his whining woe is me pathetic excuses, loud and clear.
    It's called "mental reservation"


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    #3126
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    ISAW wrote: »
    It isnt shocking! It isnt news it is all odl information . the only difference is that Brady did not inform a Belfast child's parents about that child being abused by Smyth. Informing was not looked up to in Belfast at the time.

    As someone else said, you take the biscuit. If a child was mitching from school, you do not think the childs parents should be told, as that would be informing. If a boy was abused, you think his parents should not be told and the Priest left free to abuse others and swear them to secrecy too?
    ISAW wrote: »
    People didn't have phones in 1975.
    People did have phones ...I cam across a phone book from the mid seventies recently and it was as thick as a modern phone book. People also had cars - and if parents could not be phoned, or written to, I imagine they could be visited and told. If someone was abusing my child in 1975 and the excuse fir not being told was " people did not have phones then", I would not accept that.
    Why tell obvious un-truths?
    You are right though "it is'nt shocking". Its not shocking the church in Ireland has someone as its head who did not have the moral courage to help a defenseless child who had reached out to him. As someone else said, "if Brady had informed the parents of the abuse when he was told about it he could have saved 5 other children from sex abuse."

    How many more children were told to swear on bibles not to tell their parents or anyone else of abuse? Sickening.
    I am sickened too that someone comes on here , is allowed come on here and tries to justify what went on, and tells lies about phones etc.


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    #3127
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    Watch this and learn something, tears were in my eyes and that's why I don't go to mass or have any respect for the Catholic Church anymore.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01h7m8r/This_World_The_Shame_of_the_Catholic_Church/


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    #3128
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    You are clearly a troll.

    Have you even bothered to read this thread at all or are you just looking to stamp your feet like a petulant child?


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    #3129
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    You are clearly a troll.

    Have you even bothered to read this thread at all or are you just looking to stamp your feet like a petulant child?

    I'm not a troll, and maybe if you took the time to read back on the thread as you have suggested I do, maybe you will see I have made numerous contributions. If anything I think you should be banned from this thread due to your abrasive attitude.

    Take your own advice before giving it out to others kid.


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    #3130
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    dclane wrote: »
    I'm not a troll, and maybe if you took the time to read back on the thread as you have suggested I do, maybe you will see I have made numerous contributions. If anything I think you should be banned from this thread due to your abrasive attitude.

    Take your own advice before giving it out to others kid.

    What do you think you post added? Do you really think it added ANYTHING at all? (Just so you know it didn't)

    Now go take a hike.

    I have looked over your contributions to this thread and you most certainly are a troll.


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    #3131
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    gimme5minutes wrote: »
    This is a win-win situation for people who view the RCC as a corrupt evil organisation. Either Brady stays and it reflects terribly on the church in Ireland to be headed by such a disgrace of a man, or he goes and it's another kick in the teeth of the church to have such a high ranking member forced to resign. Whether he goes or stays it reflects terribly on the church.

    But I think it would be better for the church for him to go, because at least they can say they are moving on when this scumbag is out of the picture. How can they claim to be moving on or have learned from past mistakes when they are headed by a man who could have prevented multiple cases of horrific child abuse but instead chose to prioritize his career.

    true. the danger is that he be replaced with someone who is dictated to the media or a man made of straw. the church needs a leader, someone to do the right thing yet combat the aggressive secularism. Unfortunately, they have not had real leadership in years.


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    #3132
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    What do you think you post added? Do you really think it added ANYTHING at all? (Just so you know it didn't)

    Now go take a hike.

    I have looked over your contributions to this thread and you most certainly are a troll.

    I'm a troll because I am a Catholic who has my own opinion? I will certianly not go away and will not be bullied by you. In fact I have reported you for your last post.

    So maybe you take a hike.


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    #3133
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    No decent person would of done what he did.

    You cannot claim moral high ground, or claim to be leaders of a flock, and then allow such heinous acts to go unpunished, purely for the sake of furthering your own career.

    True. he has lost his moral authority.
    unfortunately when you work in the real world you see back stabbing and immoral decisions being made on a daily basis.


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    #3134
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    dclane wrote: »
    I'm a troll because I am a Catholic who has my own opinion? I will certianly not go away and will not be bullied by you. In fact I have reported you for your last post.

    So maybe you take a hike.

    You are a Catholic in name only.


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    #3135
    Plowman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


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    #3136
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    kbannon wrote: »
    Nonsense. He was not a junior. Of the three men in collars sent to interrogate and silence Brendan Boland, he was the most qualified in canon law.
    Furthermore, there are still many unanswered questions about his involvement: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0503/1224315510225.html

    Were it me, I would not have ensured that parent could not come in for the interrogation. I know the difference between wrong and right, I learnt it when I was quite young. For some reason, many members of the clergy seem to have lost that ability!


    More nonsense!
    Most of the rest of us would have, at the very least, made sure that the parents were informed, if not the authorities. We would not have allowed (what was then an alleged) victim to undergo the type of questions that these boys were subjected to.

    There were means to deal with abusers. As an example, Fergus Finlay has revealed his own abuse in 1961 at the hands of a member of a religious order. His father ensured that it was never repeated to either Finlay or other children.

    you quote the IT, which unfortunately has anti Catholic agenda. where was the moral highground of the IT when this abuse was going on?
    why did Finlays father just stop at that. he should have started a campaign with the IT.


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    #3137
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    You are a Catholic in name only.

    Thanks I'm glad you have sorted that one out for me. For a second there I thought I was a catholic who has lost trust and faith in the Roman Catholic church due to their handling of child abuse cases and their clear mishandling of situation.

    But I'm sure you know best.


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    #3138
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    The 'good' parishioners in Donegal raised 50,000 for the filthy, scumbag, paedophile Fr Greene. :eek:

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/05/04/meanwhile-in-west-donegal/

    What is wrong with those people?
    He should be hung drawn and quartered. :mad:


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    #3139
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    you quote the IT, which unfortunately has anti Catholic agenda. where was the moral highground of the IT when this abuse was going on?
    why did Finlays father just stop at that. he should have started a campaign with the IT.

    Clutching.


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    #3140
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    dclane wrote: »
    Thanks I'm glad you have sorted that one out for me. For a second there I thought I was a catholic who has lost trust and faith in the Roman Catholic church due to their handling of child abuse cases and their clear mishandling of situation.

    But I'm sure you know best.

    You don't go to Mass - that doesn't sound like much of a Catholic to me.

    Ireland made a real balls of the situation - why don't you leave the country as well?


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    #3141
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    dclane wrote: »
    Thanks I'm glad you have sorted that one out for me. For a second there I thought I was a catholic who has lost trust and faith in the Roman Catholic church due to their handling of child abuse cases and their clear mishandling of situation.

    But I'm sure you know best.

    how could our secular pillars of society the irish times, doctors, intellectuals have let this happen? the dogs on the street knew what was happening. where was our civil courage in the eighties?


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    #3142
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    You don't go to Mass - that doesn't sound like much of a Catholic to me.

    Ireland made a real balls of the situation - why don't you leave the country as well?

    the interesting thing about this affair is that Catholics will have to choose whether or not they are in the club.if they are they have to obey the chairman in Rome. it will no longer be sufficient be a la carte catholic. either you are a catholic or you are not.


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    #3143
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    you quote the IT, which unfortunately has anti Catholic agenda. where was the moral highground of the IT when this abuse was going on?
    why did Finlays father just stop at that. he should have started a campaign with the IT.
    That's your response?
    If you look at the letters page today, you will notice a letter from a priest also calling for brady to resign. Surely, he doesn't have an anti catholic agenda?
    Secondly, even if they do have an agenda, are the questions not valid? I did notice that you didn't attempt to answer them (you merely criticised the paper they were written by).

    As for Finlay's father, whilst it's unclear on what specific action was taken, at least something was done to protect the children. Your follow up snide comment
    only servers to show that you cannot defend bradys & the rcc's inaction and lack of care for the children involved. How can you defend that?

    It's pathetic to be honest!


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    #3144
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    how could our secular pillars of society the irish times, doctors, intellectuals have let this happen? the dogs on the street knew what was happening. where was our civil courage in the eighties?

    The church still very much had the trust and fear of the people in the 80's. The church kept a lot of the abuse within it's holy walls and yes you are right in what you say however it was hard for "secular pillars of society" get information from church sources.


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    #3145
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    how could our secular pillars of society the irish times, doctors, intellectuals have let this happen? the dogs on the street knew what was happening. where was our civil courage in the eighties?

    Indeed - there is something in the fact that clerical abuse was far more of a problem in Ireland than anywhere else in the world.

    I think every Priest involved should be punished to the full extent of the law. They should also all be laicised. I make no excuses for any of the monsters involved or the people involved in the cover up.

    As a country though, Ireland needs to take some responsibility as well. This isn't something you can just blame on the Catholic Church.

    In other countries abuse within the Catholic Church has been less prevalent than in other faiths or within certain segments of the secular world.


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    #3146
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    the interesting thing about this affair is that Catholics will have to choose whether or not they are in the club.if they are they have to obey the chairman in Rome. it will no longer be sufficient be a la carte catholic. either you are a catholic or you are not.


    If you are a catholic and you feel there is wrong doing, the only way the powers that be will listen is if practising Catholics do not turn up in church.


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    #3147
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    dclane wrote: »
    If you are a catholic and you feel there is wrong doing, the only way the powers that be will listen is if practising Catholics do not turn up in church.

    You don't seem to understand why you should go to Mass. It isn't a political statement.


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    #3148
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    how could our secular pillars of society the irish times, doctors, intellectuals have let this happen? the dogs on the street knew what was happening. where was our civil courage in the eighties?
    My understanding is that the rcc was so dominant until recently that anyone who spoke out would have been chastised by society.
    The shock and division that occurred when the casey scandal broke was unreal. Media should have done more but it could also have as easliy ended up being their death knell.


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    #3149
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    how could our secular pillars of society the irish times, doctors, intellectuals have let this happen? the dogs on the street knew what was happening. where was our civil courage in the eighties?

    It's not as if the church didn't have any power now is it? Perhaps those people you mention were devout catholics and just wanted it to all go away. Blinkers on, fingers in the ears.

    There was a small turnout for the pope here in Croke Park you may remember.

    Also, they have their own law, which is convenient.


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    #3150
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    True. he has lost his moral authority.
    unfortunately when you work in the real world you see back stabbing and immoral decisions being made on a daily basis.

    I'm not entirely sure what your second sentence is supposed to mean.

    Are you saying he can be forgiven for his actions (or lack of) because immoral decisions are made by others? Or are you saying something else?


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    #3151
    gent9662
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭gent9662


    The Brigadier wrote: »
    You don't go to Mass - that doesn't sound like much of a Catholic to me.

    That's your opinion. Being a good catholic doesn't start or end with going to mass. Indeed I know a good few mass going Catholics who are nasty people. also, the priests that raped, sodomized and sexually abused children went to mass and also said mass, so these people are real Catholics because they go to mass?

    The Brigadier wrote: »
    Ireland made a real balls of the situation - why don't you leave the country as well?

    No, instead I voted for who I felt would make Ireland a better place. I also work and pay my taxes and have a democratic say in elections. When was the last time the Roman Catholic church held an election which involved its followers?


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