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The Clerical Child Abuse Thread (merged)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 401 ✭✭Bob Cratchet


    Show Time wrote: »
    They should be dragged before a court of law and sent down.

    And sorry my temper got the best of me there.

    Agree 100%. But also remember each individual no matter what organisation they belong to is innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt in a court of law by the state. That is the golden thread of justice. Forget that, and you may as well forget democratic law and order.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 401 ✭✭Bob Cratchet


    philologos wrote: »
    As was said on Prime Time last night, it is time that the RCC should be accountable to the State rather than the other way around.

    How is the State accountable to the RCC ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Agree 100%. But also remember each individual no matter what organisation they belong to is innocent until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt in a court of law by the state. That is the golden thread of justice. Forget that, and you may as well forget democracic law and order.


    http://www.factuk.org/2005/12/nuns-conviction-for-child-rape-overturned/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 401 ✭✭Bob Cratchet


    The Saint wrote: »
    If a parent puts their child into a creche and that child is raped, is the parent responsible since they temporarily transferred what is ultimately their responsibility to another party?

    The Paedophile that raped them is ultimately responsible, the management that employed them is responsible for not vetting them carefully enough, and the state is responsible for making sure a case is taken against them and they are proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt in a court of law, and until proven so, they are innocent. That is the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    I agree, those responsible should be brought to justice!

    Paedophiles and Homosexual Priests thought they could hide behind the collar, but they will be sifted out like tares from the wheat!!! The RCC will survive in spite of them!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    I agree, those responsible should be brought to justice!

    Paedophiles and Homosexual Priests thought they could hide behind the collar, but they will be sifted out like tares from the wheat!!! The RCC will survive in spite of them!!
    I would not be to pushed if the local priest was wearing a pink tutu and as gay as Christmas as long as he left the kids alone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 401 ✭✭Bob Cratchet


    Show Time wrote: »
    I would not be to pushed if the local priest was wearing a pink tutu and as gay as Christmas as long as he left the kids alone.

    How many today don't ? and how many lay adults don't either ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    I agree, those responsible should be brought to justice!

    Paedophiles and Homosexual Priests thought they could hide behind the collar, but they will be sifted out like tares from the wheat!!! The RCC will survive in spite of them!!

    I'll probably regret asking this as it can only go one way - but what has homosexuality got to do with it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    I'll probably regret asking this as it can only go one way - but what has homosexuality got to do with it?

    There is a thread discussing abuse and homosexual priests!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056279289


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Most worrying thing in the aftermath of this report, is that criticism of an Garda Siochana seems to be short on the ground - both on forums like this, and in the newspapers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    Most worrying thing in the aftermath of this report, is that criticism of an Garda Siochana seems to be short on the ground - both on forums like this, and in the newspapers.

    Because it seems that they have 'bigger' fish to fry! :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Most worrying thing in the aftermath of this report, is that criticism of an Garda Siochana seems to be short on the ground - both on forums like this, and in the newspapers.

    The lack of criticism of the Gardai is the most worrying thing for you.?:confused:

    The report covers the Gardai in 1 of its 400 odd pages.:
    1.63 A number of complainants were highly complimentary about the way
    in which the Gardaí dealt with their complaints. The Commission considers
    that most of the Gardaí who were involved in investigating the complaints
    outlined in this report carried out their tasks well and did so while treating thecomplainants with compassion and dignity.

    1.64 However, the Commission was very concerned about the approach
    adopted by the Gardaí in three cases. In one case, an investigation clearly
    was not commenced. The senior garda involved insists that an investigation did commence but the evidence demonstrates otherwise. There are no investigation files in existence. The Commission has not been able to establish why an investigation did not take place in this case but it has no doubt that there was no investigation even though there was a complaint (see Chapter 10).

    1.65 In another case, it seems that a statement taken from a young man
    was put in a drawer by a garda who was soon to retire and then forgotten
    about. In this case, the statement was found when further searches were
    conducted as a result of inquiries from this Commission. The Gardaí have
    given three different explanations for what happened in this case; none of
    them is convincing (see Chapter 9).

    1.66 In a third case, the evidence given by a garda to the Commission
    differed from the statements he had made in two prior garda investigations
    (see Chapter 12).

    1.67 The Commission was also concerned that there was no documentary
    evidence that, in two cases (see Chapters 15 and 22), the Gardaí assessed whether priests about whom complaints had been made were an ongoing risk to children. Such an assessment was required under the Children First guidelines in order to establish whether historical abuse cases should be notified to the health authorities. The Gardaí have told the Commission that they did carry out such an assessment in these cases. The Commission is satisfied that it is now the policy and practice of the Gardaí to report all cases to the HSE.

    Concerning to be sure, but a tiny, tiny part of the report. Have you read the report at all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    dvpower wrote: »
    The lack of criticism of the Gardai is the most worrying thing for you.?:confused:

    The report covers the Gardai in 1 of its 400 odd pages.:



    Concerning to be sure, but a tiny, tiny part of the report. Have you read the report at all?

    Exactly - one page out of 400.

    Don't get me wrong, paedophile priests are the biggest culprits, but time and time again it emerges that the Garda hierarchy of the time never went to serious lengths to question Bishops about failure to defrock troublemakers.

    Too much of the 'culture of silence' involving the elites of the day here.

    A carefully worded apology today by the Commissioner does not mean that the questions should be over.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Exactly - one page out of 400.
    Are you suggesting that the Gardai got off light in the report. Do you accept the report?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    dvpower wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that the Gardai got off light in the report. Do you accept the report?

    I accept it, but not even a report like this can trace all of the 'what if's' though.

    It is still a pertinent question as to why back then so many senior Gardai, operating in small parishes the length and breadth of Ireland, did not go to serious lengths to bring these perpetrators to serious justice. Being based in small town Ireland, and being Guards, they wouldn't exactly be oblivious to much.

    Unfortunately, the majority of them are dead now, but was it a mix of fear and incompetence at best, or something less forgiveable?


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Ismhunter


    "Catholic authorities took out insurance against anticipated claims of child abuse by paedophile priests 23 years ago."

    This was in the editorial in the Irish times today.Anyone know anything about it?

    P.S. there is a real feeling of "this is the last ****ing straw" from much of the reporting, final nail in the coffin for the RCC in Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Unfortunately, the majority of them are dead now, but was it a mix of fear and incompetence at best, or something less forgiveable?
    I suspect in earlier times the gardai felt they were lower down in the pecking order than the church - like everyone else. So yeah, I suppose a mix of fear and incompetence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ismhunter wrote: »
    P.S. there is a real feeling of "this is the last ****ing straw" from much of the reporting, final nail in the coffin for the RCC in Ireland?
    I'd say the RCC will keep on supplying the nails for their own coffin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    See! The Vatican faked their contrition; said just enough to get them out of the spotlight and enabling the apologists to work their magic.

    How does the Pope's letter look now; 'Poor Ireland,' he said, 'I feel for you but it's not my fault that evil prevails among you. Pray my children; pray and fast and with God's help you can overcome this evil,' and all the time knowing that interference from the Vatican thwarted criminal investigations into child-sex abuse.

    I can't wait for his next letter where he will no doubt be slightly more contrite-looking.

    Disgruntled Catholics should rise up against their Church, get excommunicated and cause a Mass Extinction. (Excuse the pun.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    I accept it, but not even a report like this can trace all of the 'what if's' though.

    It is still a pertinent question as to why back then so many senior Gardai, operating in small parishes the length and breadth of Ireland, did not go to serious lengths to bring these perpetrators to serious justice. Being based in small town Ireland, and being Guards, they wouldn't exactly be oblivious to much.

    Unfortunately, the majority of them are dead now, but was it a mix of fear and incompetence at best, or something less forgiveable?

    As I have said before, the reaction of the Church, the state and some members of the Gardai suggest to me that paedophilia is acceptable at the very highest level. It's almost like a 'perk' of extreme success.

    I honestly believe that all the authorities are mindful of the old maxim of 'people with glass houses...' and are worried about their own skeletons in the cupboard. This seems to be the only logical explanation as to why the state is reluctant to interfere with Canon-law and doesn't just enter the church and take legislative control.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    As I have said before, the reaction of the Church, the state and some members of the Gardai suggest to me that paedophilia is acceptable at the very highest level. It's almost like a 'perk' of extreme success.

    I honestly believe that all the authorities are mindful of the old maxim of 'people with glass houses...' and are worried about their own skeletons in the cupboard. This seems to be the only logical explanation as to why the state is reluctant to interfere with Canon-law and doesn't just enter the church and take legislative control.

    Unfortunately this may be the case. On a wider scale, it does appear as if paedophilia and other forms of sexual predation (for want of a better word) are characteristics found in an alarmingly high percentage of the human species - mostly males.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 401 ✭✭Bob Cratchet


    Unfortunately this may be the case. On a wider scale, it does appear as if paedophilia and other forms of sexual predation (for want of a better word) are characteristics found in an alarmingly high percentage of the human species - mostly males.

    I wonder is there also a much higher rate in Ireland, there seems to be a cases from all walks of Irish life in the papers constantly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    I wonder is there also a much higher rate in Ireland, there seems to be a cases from all walks of Irish life in the papers constantly.

    Freud's quote about the Irish being impervious to psycho-analysis sadly comes to mind!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 401 ✭✭Bob Cratchet


    Freud's quote about the Irish being impervious to psycho-analysis sadly comes to mind!

    Indeed, it's a bonkers Island all right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,396 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    I agree, those responsible should be brought to justice!

    Paedophiles and Homosexual Priests thought they could hide behind the collar, but they will be sifted out like tares from the wheat!!! The RCC will survive in spite of them!!


    Least we know where your loyalties ly. Sickening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,396 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Why on earth are we still allowing the Catholic Church having anything to do with children..how is this STILL happening? Very disturbing.

    Do parents still allow or make their kids become alter boys or girls anymore? If they do, they have serious mental issues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Ismhunter wrote: »
    "Catholic authorities took out insurance against anticipated claims of child abuse by paedophile priests 23 years ago."

    This was in the editorial in the Irish times today.Anyone know anything about it?

    P.S. there is a real feeling of "this is the last ****ing straw" from much of the reporting, final nail in the coffin for the RCC in Ireland?

    I'd agree with this - with the other reports they could argue things had changed and the reports were historical.The fact that a diocese and bishop could be so cavalier and feckless about the issue in the 21st cemtury,along with the conniving of the Vatican - seems to me that we have crossed the Rubicon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭McTigs


    Show Time wrote: »
    This chap O'Callaghan should really be facing a day in court over his failing as a child protection officer.
    anyone see this prick being interviewed from the backdoor of his holiday home on the news last night? Didn't seem too sorry to me, he couls barely conseal the smirk.... couldn't give a flying continental.:mad::mad::mad:

    Then when asked about Magee going missing, said he was "entitled to his privacy"

    Have these ****ers absolutely no humility?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    optogirl wrote: »
    I too am just so sick of revelation after revelation which has to be dragged out of them. There are defenders of the organisation here who think it's ok to spout percentages etc as if this makes one blind bit of difference. NO other organisation has so uniformly lied, covered up and protected perpetrators of abuse. Absolutely sickening - the sooner this outdated and criminal organisation dies a death the better. They have no shame and no moral core and no right to preach at others.
    It absolutley boils my blood to think of the power they had over this country. I look forward to the day when our children aren't indoctrinated into this vile organisation as a matter of course.

    +1. I'm glad peoples eyes are being opened at last in to the RCC. Not just lay people, there are lots of former Roman Catholic priests who converted and are now C of I here in Ireland, or who have gone abroad and are Anglican abroad etc.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    Least we know where your loyalties ly. Sickening.
    You have some cheek calling my loyalty to the Church Christ founded sickening. Personal attacks on one's belief is unacceptable!!!
    I am loyal to the 'teaching' of the Church, not it's 'members', as I'm sure most of the 1 Billion Catholics are!! Even Jesus said do what the teach not what they do (Pharisees).


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