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The Clerical Child Abuse Thread (merged)
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Nothing wrong with holding individuals to account. That's up to the DPP - not to you. And the Church have no problem with obeying the just laws of the land.
To be honest, there seems to be some doubt about that.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/09/monks-schoool-abuse-st-benedict-ealing?newsfeed=trueA fugitive priest wanted in connection with child sex abuse allegations has been urged to turn himself in by one of the country's top lawyers, who said his absence caused difficulties to a damning review of decades of paedophile activity at a top Catholic school.
Laurence Soper, the former abbot of Ealing abbey – which has been the subject of an inquiry from Lord Carlile QC and an internal Vatican investigation following disclosures of alleged and proven abuse at neighbouring St Benedict's – skipped bail last month and is thought to be living in an Italian monastery.
Carlile, who published his findings on Wednesday, said: "I would encourage Laurence Soper to surrender himself to the police. He may feel he owes a personal and ethical duty to answer whatever questions are put to him. I regret the difficulties Laurence Soper has caused to the [inquiry] process.
"What I hope is that everybody who has, and has had, contact with Laurence Soper should inveigh upon him very strongly to surrender himself to the British authorities."
He added that an international arrest warrant was being issued.
Soper appeared in Carlile's report as one of five clergy tried or wanted for questioning in relation to paedophile activity involving pupils.
A member of the clergy, subject to an arrest warrant in connection with child abuse, crosses borders to hide out in a monastery. It's as if nobody has learned anything from the Brendan Smyth case.
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To be honest, there seems to be some doubt about that.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/09/monks-schoool-abuse-st-benedict-ealing?newsfeed=true
A member of the clergy, subject to an arrest warrant in connection with child abuse, crosses borders to hide out in a monastery. It's as if nobody has learned anything from the Brendan Smyth case.
Will it never end ?? There are some over on the embassy closure thread still disputing the existence of collusion . I truly do despair at times.0 -
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And my words referred to the special postition being removed. I never claimed that before it was removed it was not there in the constituion and I resent you call me an idiot when I clearly pointed out it was there and it was removed.
But you should revel in a description that's puts you on a par with Cardinal Desmond Connell - after all Connell and the Church claimed complete ignorance of the widespread abuse of children by clergy in the Dublin Diocese - for decades, yet we now know that the Church (at the insistence of Dessie) had insurance taken out by dioceses around the country to cover them against allegations of clerical child sex abuse. And the archdiocese itself had at least 5,000 documents in a secret archive on abusing clergy in Dublin at the same time as they were denial!!I also pointed out that whle ther were problems with "Holy Catholic Authoritarian Ireland" and the religious institutions with respect to child Care the State currently is in charge of child vcare abnd over 200children have died under their authority in the last then years!
There you go being the typical Catholic Church abuse apologist - finger-pointing. Does 200 children dead children over 10 years compare to locking 35 children in a dormitory and watching them burn to death?
Well does it?
Does it compare to packing 240 children into a space fit only to hold 50 children and then turn a blind eye as the children's health suffers and one of them dies?
Does it compare to 7 children dying over 11 days in one institution - all 7 children's deaths STILL unaccounted for?
Does it compare to 2,400 children dying in just ONE institution over 40 years (between 1930 up to 1970) - that's an attrition rate for ONE institution of 60 children dying every year!Gainsaying is not argument. How is "you have switched from the point of "child abuse" being related to golf clubs as a comparison between the Church and other organisations such as golf clubs to a clear attack on the church as having a "special place" in the constitution and which should not be allowed in education or to have control over schools. If people want the local golf club management to run a school they have the right to campaign for that." idiotic?
The rules of the Catholic Church have no more relevance in Irish law than the rule of the local golf club. You might think they have but I disagree and so does Irish law. Get over it. Your Church protected itself and ruined children's lives. Whatever position it held prior to the Cloyne, Murphy, Ryan, McCoy, Ferns Reports, it no longer holds - and never will again. It's no more fit to mind children than it is to mind golf clubs.More gainsaying. What evidence shows the Church was worse than the non-Church management? I have shown over 200 dead kids over the last ten years in State care when only last year they claimed it was 30 over ten years!
It's attitude. It thinks Clyone, Murphy, Ryan, McCoy, Ferns can be put aside. The Christian Brothers claimed only 77 children died in one of its Institutions - the truth we now know is that 100 children died in that Institution... one of these children was only 4 years old and his lifeless body was just thrown in a copse by the Brothers. The Brothers didn't even bother to give the children their names ... they called them: son of a tinker, son of a butcher ....You claim it you prove it! Can you provide any evidence?
Why don't you ask Diarmuid Martin? He did a few jobs around Artane as a seminary student.No the comment was made that the church set up Magdalen Asylums to enrich itself through slave labour. I already showed you how things ran cheaper under the church but the comment above was about the fact that the roman catholics didnt set up the asylums. Non Catholics did!
see: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-magdalene-inquiry-must-lift-veil-and-uncloak-anticatholic-myths-2677561.html
And the later addendum does not stand upo as slave labout because from the above source "according to the Government's own report to the UN committee, the overwhelming majority of women in the Magdalene Laundries were there voluntarily."
The Magdalene Laundries (and the Industrial Schools) were private institutions, wholly owned and wholly managed by Roman Catholic Religious (sic) Orders. Funny that; you castigate the State in one paragraph and then use to State to support your odious form of Catholicism! I'll take back the 'Funny' bit; you're a typical abuse apologist - finger-pointing and attempting to deflect from the culpability of the Church in criminal and despicable activities. But it's not working.I'm not
The suggestion that the church was running a "baby market" to make money is nonsense.You are making up things you can't support! You conspiracy theory of "cover up" just doesn't wash! Where is you evidence? Saying "dont be idiotic" wont prove anything. If you claim it, it is for you to prove it! Look up "burden of proof"
At risk of repeating repeating myself: Don't be idiotic. The whole demeanour of your posts is one of denial, denial, denial. It's as if no Religious Order has admitted abuses, as if no Religious Order has apologised, as if no member of a Religious Orders has been jailed, as if no bishop has apologised, as if no cardinal has apologised, as if no pope has apologised .... as if no cardinal wanted to risk jail in order to protect his abuse files. I said earlier you should get your head unstuck from your missal .... I have an extreme urge to repeat that exhortation but I shall resist as it's better for the protection of the vulnerable that you have your head stuck thus ......
Between the 1930’s and the 1960’s an estimated 60,000 newborns were procured under false pretences for married couples that had been turned down as prospective adoptive parents on various grounds.
The perpetrators of baby trafficking broke the law, forged documents, destroyed evidence, took babies from young mothers on the pretext of arranging legal adoptions. Amongst those implicated are priests, nuns, midwives and nurses who were paid to break the law and steal babies from their unmarried mothers, then smuggled them to married couples who brought them up as their own flesh and blood.
The Difference Is We're Hypocrites
Large amounts of money changed hands to ensure the entire illegal episode was hushed up.
But not for long.
Adjournment Debate. - Transfer of Children to U.S.A. Wednesday, 18 July 1956 Dail Archives SourceFrom the archives of the Oireachtas: I would ask the House to consider that, while these two isolated cases alone would have justified the fullest examination of the facts, in reply to a further question of mine to-day, I was given the information that in the last three years 523 such children have left this country with a view to adoption in the U.S.A. Five hundred and twenty-three is an appalling figure in view of the circumstances.0 -
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