Closure of Waterford/Rosslare railway

Judgement Day

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055851547

Hope this works. I would like to draw attention to this issue which not all Wexford boardsies may have noticed. Your support is needed here as well as for the Helicopter rescue service - don't let the bastards grind you down!

Run_to_da_hills

Once this line closes it will soon be condemmed and never replaced.

Fatswaldo

Biggest poroblem with the service on this line is that it runs at the wrong time. Leaves waterford in th evening before workers can get to the station and leaves campile/wexford in the morning too late to get users to work on time. DUH! Originally it was the boat train but nobody uses it this way anymore. If IE had a tiny bit of sence they would have changed the time and try to drum up a bit of business!

Run_to_da_hills

Fatswaldo wrote: »

Biggest poroblem with the service on this line is that it runs at the wrong time. Leaves waterford in th evening before workers can get to the station and leaves campile/wexford in the morning too late to get users to work on time. DUH! Originally it was the boat train but nobody uses it this way anymore. If IE had a tiny bit of sence they would have changed the time and try to drum up a bit of business!

Thats intentional so figures would look bad on the books and give them an excuse to close the line.

It is a well known trick.

If CIE were serious about increasing passenger figures they would continue the Dublin Rosslare train on to Waterford in Summer and commuter trains from Wexford to Waterford and then on to Limerick Junction to meet other national services.

patff

This line should have been closed years ago!!!

I used this train from Wellington Bridge to Waterford to go to college back in the 80's. Even then it was just full of schoolkids and not much else. Beet and freight is gone, so it's just a heavily subsidised non-descript rail line. I live about 1/2 mile from the old Duncormick station, thats closed about 30 years, and most of the rest soon followed. It's not the most picturesque of rail lines, so it doesn't have any tourism value, apart from the odd person it picks up off the boat in Rosslare.

Sentimentality alone isn't enough reason to perpetuate this kind of drain on taxpayers money ( a rail employee told me that it costs 1 mill/year to maintain the Barrow Bridge).

I must say though, I often take a stroll from Duncormick Station along the line towards Ballyfrory crossing gates (trespassing, I know, but very little danger of being run down by a train) and it's very nice and peaceful.

Judgement Day

patff wrote: »

This line should have been closed years ago!!!

I used this train from Wellington Bridge to Waterford to go to college back in the 80's. Even then it was just full of schoolkids and not much else. Beet and freight is gone, so it's just a heavily subsidised non-descript rail line. I live about 1/2 mile from the old Duncormick station, thats closed about 30 years, and most of the rest soon followed. It's not the most picturesque of rail lines, so it doesn't have any tourism value, apart from the odd person it picks up off the boat in Rosslare.

Sentimentality alone isn't enough reason to perpetuate this kind of drain on taxpayers money ( a rail employee told me that it costs 1 mill/year to maintain the Barrow Bridge).

I must say though, I often take a stroll from Duncormick Station along the line towards Ballyfrory crossing gates (trespassing, I know, but very little danger of being run down by a train) and it's very nice and peaceful.

I am intrigued about your figure of €1 million maintenance cost for the Barrow Bridge - given that from year to year it seems to receive precious little attention save the odd bit of paint.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

I am intrigued about your figure of €1 million maintenance cost for the Barrow Bridge - given that from year to year it seems to receive precious little attention save the odd bit of paint.

don't you think that it's inspected on occasion by expensive consultant engineers. but as I said, it was a rail employee that told me this.

Also, I noticed in another post of yours from a different thread that you suggested it was a scenic route. now it's my turn to be intrigued!!!

Judgement Day

patff wrote: »

don't you think that it's inspected on occasion by expensive consultant engineers. but as I said, it was a rail employee that told me this.

Also, I noticed in another post of yours from a different thread that you suggested it was a scenic route. now it's my turn to be intrigued!!!

Maybe I have a different interpretation of the word scenic to you? I think you will find that I described the route from Dublin/Rosslare and the South Wexford line as two of the most scenic routes in the country and I stand by that statement. Perhaps you were too young to appreciate the scenery when you travelled to school on the line? Is it because Duncormick station is closed that you appear to have it in for the line? I should have thought very few residents of south Wexford would regard the closure of the railway as good for the area, that is unless they want to extend their house across the trackbed or, indeed, walk the route as you seem to enjoy.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

Maybe I have a different interpretation of the word scenic to you? I think you will find that I described the route from Dublin/Rosslare and the South Wexford line as two of the most scenic routes in the country and I stand by that statement. Perhaps you were too young to appreciate the scenery when you travelled to school on the line? Is it because Duncormick station is closed that you appear to have it in for the line? I should have thought very few residents of south Wexford would regard the closure of the railway as good for the area, that is unless they want to extend their house across the trackbed or, indeed, walk the route as you seem to enjoy.

I would say very few residents of S. Wexford would be aware that this line is live. It is of virtually no economic importance to south Wexford, not that that is of ultimate importance.

The closure of Duncormick station isn't a burden on my mental state, jeez, that'd be 30 years of pain.

A functional line would be great. It was that once. But it was abandoned
because it's not relevant anymore. Sentimentality won't reverse that no matter how hard anyone tries.

Judgement Day

patff wrote: »

I would say very few residents of S. Wexford would be aware that this line is live. It is of virtually no economic importance to south Wexford, not that that is of ultimate importance.

The closure of Duncormick station isn't a burden on my mental state, jeez, that'd be 30 years of pain.

A functional line would be great. It was that once. But it was abandoned
because it's not relevant anymore. Sentimentality won't reverse that no matter how hard anyone tries.

Clearly you have your mind made up so I won't waste time trying to persuade you otherwise. The line was never 'abandoned' but it has been progressively run-down for decades by little Hitler's in their bunkers at Heuston Station and the DoT in Kildare Street and if people accept it, as you appear to do, where will it end? Rural post offices, phoneboxes, hospitals, garda stations, emergency helicopter services etc.etc are all under threat. God helps those who help themselves. Night.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

Clearly you have your mind made up so I won't waste time trying to persuade you otherwise. The line was never 'abandoned' but it has been progressively run-down for decades by little Hitler's in their bunkers at Heuston Station and the DoT in Kildare Street and if people accept it, as you appear to do, where will it end? Rural post offices, phoneboxes, hospitals, garda stations, emergency helicopter services etc.etc are all under threat. God helps those who help themselves. Night.

services that are viable will continue. services that are important should continue, no matter. services that only survive for their own sake should be abandoned.

baronflyguy

If CIE dont want the line they should give it to a private company and let them run a Train service on it. Making money would be the primary goal of a private company and so would offer a service that the customer wants and not want suits the unions.

Just my 2 cents.

clarkholm

Clearly it should be closed. No private company in their right mind would take on the service. It is far too expensive, the same job could be done a lot cheaper and efficiently by a bus service. The railway line should be turned into a bike/walking trail. Can't believe people are actually objecting to this....... no one uses it, it is a total waste of money!

Judgement Day

clarkholm wrote: »

Clearly it should be closed. No private company in their right mind would take on the service. It is far too expensive, the same job could be done a lot cheaper and efficiently by a bus service. The railway line should be turned into a bike/walking trail. Can't believe people are actually objecting to this....... no one uses it, it is a total waste of money!

I love posts by people who clearly have no knowledge at all of the subject about which they are posting. No point in trying to respond. :rolleyes:

clarkholm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I love posts by people who clearly have no knowledge at all of the subject about which they are posting. No point in trying to respond. :rolleyes:

Great way to win a debate! Please enlighten me as to where I am lacking in knowledge? I want to learn from you Judgement Day, you seem so wise!!

OK people, lets keep it civil here.

baronflyguy

clarkholm wrote: »

Clearly it should be closed. No private company in their right mind would take on the service. It is far too expensive, the same job could be done a lot cheaper and efficiently by a bus service. The railway line should be turned into a bike/walking trail. Can't believe people are actually objecting to this....... no one uses it, it is a total waste of money!

How do you know no private investor is interested? No body will know till the idea is even thought about in the DoT.
Open you eyes and don't believe all the spin you hear.

Unions and high wages have messed up a lot of these semi state bodies with ridiculous demands like for example the poor train driver wants more money to take on extra responsibility to drive a new train....c'mon please. That would be like me in work getting a brand new fast PC and telling my employer I wont use it until I get trained how to use the new PC and I want more money.

Here is a few examples of success stories that if they believed your way of thinking would never have existed.

Midleton Train
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midleton_railway_station

Cork to Swansea
http://www.fastnetline.com/

RyanAir
http://www.ryanair.com/ie

AerArann
http://www.aerarann.com/

Waterford & Suir Valley Railway - Touristy thing i know but the line is still there and used.
http://www.wsvrailway.ie/

Across the Pond - Virgin
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/

clarkholm wrote: »

....It is far too expensive, the same job could be done a lot cheaper and efficiently by a bus service.....

CIE smells like another FAS fiasco. No wonder they arent making money.
They blew it all.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kickbacks-waste-and-bogus-orders-costing-cie-millions-1910407.html

Like I said, take the line away from CIE since they are not making any money from it and give it to someone else. Give someone else a go. CIE shouldn't have the final say for the decision of this line, they can't even manage themselves.

Judgement Day

clarkholm wrote: »

Great way to win a debate! Please enlighten me as to where I am lacking in knowledge? I want to learn from you Judgement Day, you seem so wise!!

OK, if you're really that interested there are two threads on the Waterford/Rosslare and Connolly/Rosslare rail lines which you might like to look at.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055851547

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055638445&highlight=groundhog

The Irish Times

From The Irish Times

The Irish Times wrote:

Iarnród Éireann has confirmed it is to cease passenger services on the Waterford to Rosslare line in the southeast.

The company said it will explore the possibility of keeping the line open as a tourist/heritage railway, but it maintained that with passenger numbers at 25 per day, the route was "unsustainable".

A closing date for the Waterford to Rosslare route, which was one of the routes identified for examination by the recent McCarthy report, is expected to be announced by Iarnród Éireann today or tomorrow.

Iarnród Éireann said it is maintaining services on other routes identified in the Mc Carthy report and has cut staff costs, length of trains and timetabled services in a bid to keep lines open.

The company has frequently warned of falling passenger numbers on the Waterford to Rosslare line while the sugar beet freight business, which sustained the route, ceased in 2006.

A trial extension of the passenger service from Rosslare to Wexford was under-utilised the company said.

A recent survey of passengers indicated most users were heading for Waterford Institute of Technology. Accordingly, the company said a bus service would replace the train, taking passengers to the institute, in about the same time, for about the same price.

Iarnród Éireann said there would also be environmental benefits of running a small bus, as opposed to a train.

It is understood that discussed have taken place with staff working on the route interested in redeployment within Iarnród Éireann. Voluntary severance is also to be offered.

The company said rail transport was "a volume business" and the passenger numbers spoke for themselves.

Judgement Day

Deleted User wrote: »

From The Irish Times

Well, if this is true the meeting in Wellington Bridge tonight is an utter waste of time. What a joke this closure will be and, if reason were needed, another reason for me never, ever to vote Green again. :mad:

DWCommuter

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/iarnrod-eireann-under-pressure-to-reverse-decision-to-close-line-453076.html

Rumours that closure is the end of the month. This would be another tactic of CIE. Close it before the Summer and before it generates slightly increased seasonal numbers, that may persuade Government.

Scorched Earth.

patff

Oh well, maybe somebody will write a sentimental ballad about the great days of the Rosslare Waterford line.

Something like;

train kept a rollin'
nobody paid to ride
the train it kept a rollin'
while people in hospital died

Judgement Day

patff wrote: »

Oh well, maybe somebody will write a sentimental ballad about the great days of the Rosslare Waterford line.

Something like;

train kept a rollin'
nobody paid to ride
the train it kept a rollin'
while people in hospital died

You could say that about all Irish Rail's services and as I have been pointing out, every Euro that CIE/IE wastes means more people lying on trollies in A+E, or special needs assistants being cutback or cervical cancers innoculations being cancelled. It is not remotely funny and CIE needs to be stopped dead in its tracks - sorry - but that is not to say that the railway system should be got rid of because the fools presently in charge can't run a piss-up in a brewery. :mad:

DWCommuter

The Minister for Transport was quoted today as saying that the Waterford - Rosslare line is being closed so the losses can be transferred to the loss making and newly opened line from Limerick to Galway. A report has claimed that the Western Rail Corridor will make an annual loss of 2.4 million. The minister has stated that because more passengers travel on the western line, then it makes more sense to transfer the loss there as the department cannot increase the CIE subsidy.

Now considering 100 million plus was spent on the WRC, since 2008, while absolutely nothing financial was put into the Waterford - Rosslare line or even anything creative in terms of actually running it, then it all seems a little disjointed, farcical and stupid in terms of running a transport service. The WRC was reopened on the basis of regional development and equality. No equality is being demonstrated on the Waterford - Rosslare line. Even the station timetables are two years out of date.

Southsider1

patff wrote: »

Oh well, maybe somebody will write a sentimental ballad about the great days of the Rosslare Waterford line.

Something like;

train kept a rollin'
nobody paid to ride
the train it kept a rollin'
while people in hospital died

So you think that by closing this line, the money they save will keep people alive in hospitals? The hospitals that are run by similar bungling idiots as run the railways - and I'm talking about the hospital management not the Medical staff!! Wow, You're clever!! So they should take away the money from CIE and give it to the hospital management to piss away instead. Hmm. Yeah:rolleyes:

patff

Southsider1 wrote: »

So you think that by closing this line, the money they save will keep people alive in hospitals? The hospitals that are run by similar bungling idiots as run the railways - and I'm talking about the hospital management not the Medical staff!! Wow, You're clever!! So they should take away the money from CIE and give it to the hospital management to piss away instead. Hmm. Yeah:rolleyes:

No, you're drawing your own conclusions there. I didn't make any of those points.

But, as you point out, bungling idiots are the common denominator and thats unlikely to change anytime soon.

So, what do you do? Keep loading them with cash and still get no return, or say enough is enough.

Southsider1

patff wrote: »

No, you're drawing your own conclusions there. I didn't make any of those points.

But, as you point out, bungling idiots are the common denominator and thats unlikely to change anytime soon.

So, what do you do? Keep loading them with cash and still get no return, or say enough is enough.

Well, here's where they're spending the money they saved from closing the line: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/consultants-for-new-rail-lines-to-be-paid-836450000-2134302.html

So now you see what we're dealing with. So, in answer to your previous post no! the hospitals aren't going to benefit...

patff

Southsider1 wrote: »

Well, here's where they're spending the money they saved from closing the line: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/consultants-for-new-rail-lines-to-be-paid-836450000-2134302.html

So now you see what we're dealing with. So, in answer to your previous post no! the hospitals aren't going to benefit...

I'd be seriously disinterested in DART lines for Dublin.

As for the Waterford Rosslare line, it would be great to have a good service. I live 1/2 mile from one of the old stations, but it's closed maybe 30 years ago. There's a reason for that; it was a waste of money!!

Judgement Day

From the Save the Rosslare railway Facebook site:

'Irish Rail lodged their application to the National Transport Authority on March 26th. The NTA is presently considering this application. It is of huge importance that objections are lodged to this application. There is no formal process for public consultation however the NTA will accept submissions.

There is no charge for lodging an objection, it will be accepted in electronic form. Anyone can object to the proposal from within the country or outside. email your objections to info@nationaltransport.ie and mark them Rosslare Waterford Railway.

Play your part at home or abroad.'

Seems like a damn good idea to me and my submission is going in tomorrow.

jpb1974

Forgive my ignorance but what is the argument for keeping the line open?

Circa 25 passengers a day sounds disturbing... surely not enough to run a viable business?

Is it simply the case that if the services to and from Waterford were rescheduled that numbers would increase significantly... enough to justify keeping the line i.e. turn a profit?

Southsider1

jpb1974 wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but what is the argument for keeping the line open?

Circa 25 passengers a day sounds disturbing... surely not enough to run a viable business?

Is it simply the case that if the services to and from Waterford were rescheduled that numbers would increase significantly... enough to justify keeping the line i.e. turn a profit?

None of the hospitals in Ireland turn a profit so should they be shut too???

Some services are provided, or should be provided by Government regardless of profitability. However every effort should be made to reduce the burden on the Tax payer. CIE do neither. They scrap services and waste money on other services. As has been stated before on this and other posts, had they marketed the service properly, run the services at user friendly times then it stood a far better chance of success.