Closure of Waterford/Rosslare railway

Judgement Day

jpb1974 wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but what is the argument for keeping the line open?

Circa 25 passengers a day sounds disturbing... surely not enough to run a viable business?

Is it simply the case that if the services to and from Waterford were rescheduled that numbers would increase significantly... enough to justify keeping the line i.e. turn a profit?

I will forgive your ignorance but would suggest that you inform yourself about the economics of rail transport before posting. Passenger rail systems worldwide lose money - every line in Ireland - and no matter what is done with the Waterford/Rosslare line it is not as you put it going to 'turn a profit'. But then why should it be expected to as nobody expects our roads to make a profit.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

......Passenger rail systems worldwide lose money......

fair enough but many rail lines that lose money are justified simply through the service provided, and are well worth subsidising.

Judgement Day

patff wrote: »

fair enough but many rail lines that lose money are justified simply through the service provided, and are well worth subsidising.

Yes, and in case you hadn't noticed that is the very point campaigners for the Waterford/Rosslare line are making - significant savings could be made by the provision of a proper service and thus kill two birds with one stone.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, and in case you hadn't noticed that is the very point campaigners for the Waterford/Rosslare line are making - significant savings could be made by the provision of a proper service and thus kill two birds with one stone.

it's very difficult not to notice the points they are making, especially when the Shinners are involved! Does'nt mean they make any sense.

And in case you haven't noticed, such campaigns generally depend on sentiment and anecdotes to get their point across.

Judgement Day

patff wrote: »

it's very difficult not to notice the points they are making, especially when the Shinners are involved! Does'nt mean they make any sense.

And in case you haven't noticed, such campaigns generally depend on sentiment and anecdotes to get their point across.

Don't understand your point and I would have thought that the campaign involved people of many political persuasions (excluding FF and their pathetic Green Uncle Toms). I am coming from anything but a sentimental viewpoint on this issue and I think all the anecdotal type of stuff such as I never use the line but my Dad used to bring me down to station to wave to the train only serve to distract from the real issues.
I have a background in running tourism projects and several years ago wished to develop a tourist product which would have involved using the South Wexford line but the utterly useless timetable prevented this. I know of another major railtour operator (for general visitors NOT anoraks) who would use the route if it were possible. Between the dire timetable on the South Wexford line and the appalling 'commuter' trains which operated on the Dublin/Rosslare route until last November, developing any sort of tourist business was non-starter. Now with the inter-city railcars on the Dublin/Rosslare line one part of the jigsaw is in place but with the new 'connectionless' timetable introduced on the South Wexford line in Nov.2009 any such plan cannot proceed. That is one of my selfish reasons that I want to see the line stay open.
From a strategic point of view closing a rail link to one of the major access points for UK visitors is lunacy, especially with Brian Cowen's much trumpeted plan for FREE rail travel for overseas OAPs. The advent of cheap air travel did much to reduce the number of foot passengers on the ferries but there are signs that this is already beginning to change, and the days of cheap air travel will end but nobody in authority seems prepared to face up to this stark reality.
In as much as there is sense in retaining any railway lines in Ireland there is sense in keeping the Waterford/Rosslare line - for local commuters, for tourists and for long term strategic reasons. CIE/IE are not part of the answer they are part of the problem and their answer to losses is never to generate more revenue but always to cut services.
What's your own agenda because even if the line closes don't expect any extra beds in A+E or a tax rebate in the post - Ireland doesn't work like that?

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

What's your own agenda because even if the line closes don't expect any extra beds in A+E or a tax rebate in the post - Ireland doesn't work like that?

No agenda, gives me a more objective standpoint.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

Don't understand your point and I would have thought that the campaign involved people of many political persuasions (excluding FF and their pathetic Green Uncle Toms). I am coming from anything but a sentimental viewpoint on this issue and I think all the anecdotal type of stuff such as I never use the line but my Dad used to bring me down to station to wave to the train only serve to distract from the real issues.

my point being that Sinn Fein at a local level will jump on any bandwagon.

I have a background in running tourism projects and several years ago wished to develop a tourist product which would have involved using the South Wexford line but the utterly useless timetable prevented this. I know of another major railtour operator (for general visitors NOT anoraks) who would use the route if it were possible. Between the dire timetable on the South Wexford line and the appalling 'commuter' trains which operated on the Dublin/Rosslare route until last November, developing any sort of tourist business was non-starter. Now with the inter-city railcars on the Dublin/Rosslare line one part of the jigsaw is in place but with the new 'connectionless' timetable introduced on the South Wexford line in Nov.2009 any such plan cannot proceed. That is one of my selfish reasons that I want to see the line stay open.

frankly, that is a shame.

From a strategic point of view closing a rail link to one of the major access points for UK visitors is lunacy, especially with Brian Cowen's much trumpeted plan for FREE rail travel for overseas OAPs. The advent of cheap air travel did much to reduce the number of foot passengers on the ferries but there are signs that this is already beginning to change, and the days of cheap air travel will end but nobody in authority seems prepared to face up to this stark reality.

I was a passenger on that line for many years (before the advent of cheap air) and don't recall many tourists travelling back then.

Judgement Day

'I was a passenger on that line for many years (before the advent of cheap air) and don't recall many tourists travelling back then.'

patff - I think we will have to agree to differ on this one but as regards your last point - if you travelled on the route at any time since the 1970s, it is not surprising that you didn't see that many tourists as the timetable and level of service has been bad and worsening for four decades! It's a classic from the CIE handbook of "How to close down a railway by stealth". That said I can assure you that I travelled on the route at many times over the last thirty five years and during the summer the boat trains were well filled. But if you strive to make a railway more and more useless you will eventually make it more and more irrelevant to the majority of people. In the light of that I'm surprised at the level of protest over the impending closure. Good night.

patff

Judgement Day wrote: »

if you travelled on the route at any time since the 1970s, it is not surprising that you didn't see that many tourists ................ I travelled on the route at many times over the last thirty five years and during the summer the boat trains were well filled.

2010 minus 35yrs is the 1970's.

the only conclusion here is that we've never been on that train at the same time.

jpb1974

but would suggest that you inform yourself about the economics of rail transport before posting

I tell you what.. I'll forgive your ignorance even though you didn't request that I do so.

If you read my original post it was comprised of 3 questions... not 3 statements of fact.

Are you telling me that I have to do a cert/diploma/degree in rail transport before I am entitled to ask a question?

I would suggest that you inform yourself about respect and the rights of others to contribute to this thread and all threads on this public forum.

Good man.

jpb1974

Actually... it's quite odd that... you ask a question about the rail service and the response you get is that 'you need to inform yourself about the rail service'... :rolleyes:

Even if I were of the opinion that line should be closed (because it wasn't economical to keep it in service) does that mean I am not entitled to a personal opinion?

Judgement Day

jpb1974 wrote: »

I tell you what.. I'll forgive your ignorance even though you didn't request that I do so.

If you read my original post it was comprised of 3 questions... not 3 statements of fact.

Are you telling me that I have to do a cert/diploma/degree in rail transport before I am entitled to ask a question?

I would suggest that you inform yourself about respect and the rights of others to contribute to this thread and all threads on this public forum.

Good man.

I tell you what here's another suggestion, why don't you try reading the various threads on the Waterford/Rosslare line and you might find some answers? I never said that you had no right to post on the subject but rather that you should inform yourself better before jumping in. Don't be so precious.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055851547
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055638445&highlight=groundhog

amongst others.

jpb1974

Ah right, I see.. I have to do my homework before I can play ball with the self appointment Lord Mayor of the Wexford forum.

Looks like it's all be said and done in 2 other threads... so best not waste anymore time on this one so.

Terribly sorry about that.

Less of the personal attacks please people.

Attack the post, not the poster and all that.

baronflyguy

Just a thought to put it out there......

With the current Volcanic Ash cloud grounding flights for X days and possibly becoming a regular thing if more volcanic ash is emitted, it is quite possible ferrys and trains will take up the slack of people wanting to travel in comfort.

The last time something like this happened in Iceland was in 1783, so no one really knows what type of disruption this may cause for current flying transport environment.

maybe I am over analysising what I hear and read about this volcanic ash cloud but I am amazed how it has grounded irish, uk and other european planes.

DWCommuter

baronflyguy wrote: »

Just a thought to put it out there......

With the current Volcanic Ash cloud grounding flights for X days and possibly becoming a regular thing if more volcanic ash is emitted, it is quite possible ferrys and trains will take up the slack of people wanting to travel in comfort.

The last time something like this happened in Iceland was in 1783, so no one really knows what type of disruption this may cause for current flying transport environment.

maybe I am over analysising what I hear and read about this volcanic ash cloud but I am amazed how it has grounded irish, uk and other european planes.

Nice sentiments and perfectly sound too. But CIE/Irish Rail don't care about using their rail service to assist dependent ferry passengers.

Its tradition!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fsEPru64Wo

If you really feel that CIE/Irish Rail are failing Wexford, then join this facebook group. Thanks.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=117098984972045

delsutton2008

Call me late, but just heard about the closure of the Rosslare-Waterford line :eek: Living on the other side of the pond doesn't help!

Obviously if only 25 people a day are using it, it's nonviable for Iarnród Éireann, especially in these more testing times, but still always a shame to see infrastructure like this going to be consigned to history. It would be great if it had some heritage value and it became another tourist attraction for Wexford rather than just being allowed to rust to oblivion, but it would need to be something special to draw the crowds.

In the UK there are some old lines that have been adopted by steam preservation groups and they run very successfully. I wonder if that is a possibility in this case?

Judgement Day

delsutton2008 wrote: »

Call me late, but just heard about the closure of the Rosslare-Waterford line :eek: Living on the other side of the pond doesn't help!

Obviously if only 25 people a day are using it, it's nonviable for Iarnród Éireann, especially in these more testing times, but still always a shame to see infrastructure like this going to be consigned to history. It would be great if it had some heritage value and it became another tourist attraction for Wexford rather than just being allowed to rust to oblivion, but it would need to be something special to draw the crowds.

In the UK there are some old lines that have been adopted by steam preservation groups and they run very successfully. I wonder if that is a possibility in this case?

In one word - NO. There is a far more comprehensive thread in the Commuting + Transport forum.

Cantona's Collars

Why not turn it into a freight line? Collect the containers etc. from the ferry that are destined for the south west of Ireland and return outgoing freight to the terminal in Rosslare. The greens are always nattering about reducing the amount of trucks on the roads.Either that or lay a road over it and mothball the train service.No matter what campaigning we do it looks like the line is doomed.