Another Hill Climb? Cruagh - March 30th

Beasty

I think you guys need to work out a rota on when you are going to do your "secret" practices. It may take some of the fun out of it if you all turn up at the same time and end up with the "competitive spirit" getting the better of you before the main event:)

Chips Lovell

I've done this climb probably more than any other in the mountains. Hardest bit is the start up to the bridge at the junction with Cruagh Road. It's quite steep and unrelenting. You then get a small chance to recover a bit as it levels out after the bridge before it starts dragging up again as you approach the entrance to Cruagh Wood. After that, it eases off a bit on the way to the viewing point and after the final bend before the viewing point it's pretty much flat and you can pick up some speed. The final stretch kicks up again. It's not as severe as the first bit but you're often riding into the wind. It's very easy to toast yourself in the first half and then find yourself with not enough left in the legs to get motoring on the second part.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Dirk's question is about what time would be respectable, so the answer rather depends on what is required for Dirk to have some self-respect.

More important than a time, surely, is that Dirk achieves it in some style.

Lumen wrote:

You shouldn't attempt to stay aerobic in a hillclimb TT, you have to squeeze the life out of yourself towards the end.

You still have to stay aerobic on a hill climb, or more exactly at threshold, it's no different from any time trial in that regard. Staying at this pace does not mean easy by any means. Pacing is important, don't go too hard at the start. On the other hand the start is the steep bit and you should generally push harder the steeper it is due to the reduced aerodynamic drag (you get more "bang for your buck" increasing effort on a steep hill, less on a shallow one.)

DirkVoodoo

blorg wrote: »

More important than a time, surely, is that Dirk achieves it in some style.

Way ahead of you!

I will be sporting full liquigas kit which I've been waiting to wear since christmas, no helmet, shades perched atop head, hair slightly messy and a 5 O'Clock shadow. Considering the fake tan route, but I need to get my hands on some miraculous medals or other religious icons to sport about my half opened jersey.

Does anyone fancy a trip out here sometime tomorrow to have a look???

niceonetom

I think blorg, ROK and lumen mean different things by "aerobic". For a TT of less that 1 hr you should be "anaerobic" for all of it, by which I mean you should be over your "aerobic threshold" or "lactate threshold" which is defined as by the effort you can sustain for 60 mins given total motivation. If you're below this exertion level for something that should take, say, 25 mins, you're not pushing hard enough.

I think blorg is using the word anaerobic to be synonymous with sprinting.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

I think blorg is using the word anaerobic to be synonymous with sprinting.

No, he's just wrong.

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

No, he's just wrong.

You two should have another tedious argument about the semantics of the issue to find out.

blorg

niceonetom wrote: »

I think blorg, ROK and lumen mean different things by "aerobic". For a TT of less that 1 hr you should be "anaerobic" for all of it, by which I mean you should be over your "aerobic threshold" or "lactate threshold" which is defined as by the effort you can sustain for 60 mins given total motivation. If you're below this exertion level for something that should take, say, 25 mins, you're not pushing hard enough.

I think blorg is using the word anaerobic to be synonymous with sprinting.

That is a good point but a 15-30 minute hill climb is still done aerobically albeit (only marginally) above your 1 hour threshold. My point is simply that (also by definition) you cannot sustain anaerobic effort for very long and if you go too hard in the first few minutes you will only succeed in blowing up with no opportunity to recover.

Lumen

FWIW, my computer tells me I should be aiming for 20 minutes.

I predict that Tom will beat me anyway. This is my destiny.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

I predict that Tom will beat me anyway. This is my destiny.

PMA

levitronix

Whether its anaraerobic or aerobic your face should show it all, mouth open dribbling and sweating on your bars

Nietzschean

How did poor Tom end up being the marked man for this?

ROK ON

Nietzschean wrote: »

How did poor Tom end up being the marked man for this?

Lumen just dont like being second first loser.

The tax man

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Does anyone fancy a trip out here sometime tomorrow to have a look???

What time are you thinking of Dirk?

DirkVoodoo

The tax man wrote: »

What time are you thinking of Dirk?

Either very early or later in the afternoon. Have to run a few errands in town around lunch time.

I'm thinking either 9am or 4pm, not sure which though.

The tax man

Sounds good. Either time suits me so I'll leave it up to you to choose.

DirkVoodoo

Cool, 9am then? Won't be too long, I reckon a slow spin up to get an idea of the route, terrain, wind, etc. Then maybe 1 or 2 trial runs to work out strategy and gearing?? Should be done in under 2 hours.

The tax man

9am good with me. I know every single inch of the road and what parts kill me.
Want to meet at the roundabout at the end of Taylors Lane. Map.

DirkVoodoo

The tax man wrote: »

9am good with me. I know every single inch of the road and what parts kill me.
Want to meet at the roundabout at the end of Taylors Lane. Map.

Sounds good, see you then!

ryan_sherlock

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Cool, 9am then? Won't be too long, I reckon a slow spin up to get an idea of the route, terrain, wind, etc. Then maybe 1 or 2 trial runs to work out strategy and gearing?? Should be done in under 2 hours.

I know the climb well so that helps - but my strategy... full gas from the start Push hardest when it is hardest to push.

Lumen

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I know the climb well so that helps - but my strategy... full gas from the start Push hardest when it is hardest to push.

Yeah, but you only have to push for 15 minutes. :pac:

Billy Whizz

Any effort longer than 70 seconds is aerobic .

DirkVoodoo

Well that was fun, thanks to Tax man for coming out and providing company and a start finish point.

Definitely went too hard at the start, I was beginning to grind and wondered had I hit the wall as only 10-40* minutes previously I had been spinning away next to Tax Man on our "scouting run". I looked down and saw I never shifted the front down so I was running 50-25, not a good start and my poor chain!

It was hard to settle into a rhythm with the undulating nature of the course, but I think that aside from the hot start I was not pushing hard enough on the flatter sections and the last bit with the headwind after the viewing point I really should have gone "balls to the wall". Passed a guy there who shouted "Good man!" at me, and again with "Good man, that's the way to do it!" when he passed me lying on the side of the road.

I felt ok at the end, average HR was 175 which isn't "at the limit" but I forgot my inhaler and the cold air was making me wheeze a lot at the end. Not an excuse, but just I don't think legs or heart are the limiting factor for me on this, just my crappy lungs. Cooled down almost instantly with the breeze up there, would be nice to have a car at the end with jackets as I was warm enough on the ascent.

Went home via Johnny Foxes and Carrickmines retail park, was motoring and managed to power up the last little hill to carrickmines cross which means I had something in reserve so will have to push harder on the day!

Oh, the headwind was quite light today.

*Ha, no free hints!

The tax man

Fun? You call that fun? God damn hill nearly cost me my breakfast.
The pace on the first ascent was a nice tempo,not too hard,keeping the legs and lungs just on the side of happy.

Second time up was more attack mode.Quickly found the legs had nothing and weren't really going to recover much on the easy bit between the first hairpin and Cruagh entrance.I just spun like mad all the way up to the viewpoint noting that my time wasn't much faster than the easier ascent,only 20 odd seconds.Made up some time on the stretch from the viewpoint up towards the finish.

I won't be in the running,just making up the numbers on the day.:)

(Just looking at the map,I got the finish line slightly wrong. Sorry Dirk.:o)

Lumen

Dirk, the only slightly useful bit of information in that lovely essay is how long it took you, and that's the bit you left out!

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

Dirk, the only slightly useful bit of information in that lovely essay is how long it took you, and that's the bit you left out!

I thought you liked my stories? Telling you numbers is a bad idea, I want to keep you guessing and running simulations in your head. My time to the incorrect finish line was about average, I reckon with some better pacing and really pushing it after the viewpoint I could have a good time, certainly won't be upsetting any of the climbers but I won't embarrass myself either

ryan_sherlock

Next time I'm up that climb I'll take some pictures so that I can show people where the finish is. Distance is correct but a visual clue is nice...

levitronix

I think i might my give the hill a recci tomorrow on the way home after my spin, i would of thought to get up it fast youd have to kick on every bend especially where the surface is bad, because when i train on it and i wana drop someone thats wheres i kick

pmg001

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

My time would be depended on the wind at the top - if it is still, sometime around the 15 minute mark - for Mel, if she is racing hard around 18... If there is a headwind up there, add another minute or two.

I did this yesterday for the first time. Didn't time it but it definately wasn't anywhere near 15 minutes! That seems astonishingly fast to me!!
As a matter of interest what gear would you use for the majority of it, or is that classified information? I was in my smallest gear for pretty much the whole thing, whatever that is on a compact.

Chips Lovell

pmg001 wrote: »

That seems astonishingly fast to me!!

It is. Ryan came 3rd in the National Hill Climb Championships last year and 2nd the year before.