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Africa's homophobia

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    #32
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    DubArk wrote: »
    HERE WE GO AGIAN!!!!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/world/africa/21malawi.html

    Two gay men in Malawi, convicted this week of unnatural acts and gross indecency, were sentenced Thursday to the maximum penalty allowed by law, 14 years of hard labor in prison…..:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
    That's horrid, although this:
    nytimes wrote:
    "I just wanted people to know we were in love." Mr.Chimbalanga said in an interview earlier this year. He said he considered himself a woman and had been eager to dress as a bride.
    Didn't exactly help his cause.


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    #33
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess :)


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    #34
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    http://www.facebook.com/?page=1&sk=messages&tid=397508534110#!/group.php?gid=118496474854169

    That is the facebook group set up in support for the recently sentenced couple in Malawi. I'd encourage anyone to join.


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    #35
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    That is the facebook group set up in support for the recently sentenced couple in Malawi. I'd encourage anyone to join.
    Man, facebook are you serious ?

    Most of the people in malawi don't have access to the internet much less facebook. If you actually want to do something that might actually achieve something contact the various political parties here to encourage them to lobby the government to do something.

    But really if you want to make African society more tolerant you need to help make it more educated and developed. And that means supporting aid programs to these countries.


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    #36
    DubArk
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭DubArk


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's horrid, although this:

    Didn't exactly help his cause.

    And what cause would that be?? HIS FREEDOM ;)


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    #37
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    DubArk wrote: »
    And what cause would that be?? HIS FREEDOM ;)
    Yes.


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    #38
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    I really think civil rights is one of the smallest parts of this issue. The issue is not that they can't be themselves or be out the issue is that people are coming to kill them and their families. And once it comes in Uganda it will come in in the rest of Africa. This will be a genocide and no-one is saying anything and the second we start bringing in civil rights we are asking others do you agree with gay civil rights when really we should be asking others is it right that all these people will be slaughtered? Its an absolute disgrace that there has been no major protests from anyone and its an even bigger disgrace that Ireland, a country partnered with Uganda for aid, has said nothing. What if it was us? What if they were coming for us and our families and those in other countries who were free said nothing?


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    #39
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    Its an absolute disgrace that there has been no major protests from anyone and its an even bigger disgrace that Ireland, a country partnered with Uganda for aid, has said nothing. What if it was us? What if they were coming for us and our families and those in other countries who were free said nothing?
    Em actually Junior Minister Peter Power has been active through diplomatic channels on Uganda and Malawi

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #40
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    Em actually Junior Minister Peter Power has been active through diplomatic channels on Uganda and Malawi

    They (he and the Irish ambassador to Uganda)have voiced their discontent with a few letters. They're no money being withdrawn.
    Irish Aid provides vital support to one such group in the Karamjoa district of Uganda. Irish Aid works with the Government to improve access to basic education for the children of pastoral farmers. Over the last decade, Uganda, with support from Irish Aid and others has increased the number of Ugandan children at primary school from two million to over seven million.”
    http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=83349
    That was Peter Power on the 8th March 2010. He can disapprove all he wants, we're stilling propping up their education system (and basically everything else too) and maybe if everyone who gives them aid threatened to take it away they'd listen. I'd like to support the education of girls in Uganda, but not if it means 100s of thousands of people are going to be imprisoned or killed.

    What about the actual minister for foreign affairs, Micheal Martin? What's he up to?
    More on how much we give to Uganda
    http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/uganda.asp


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    #41
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    crayolastereo wrote: »
    They (he and the Irish ambassador to Uganda)have voiced their discontent with a few letters. They're no money being withdrawn.

    http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=83349
    That was Peter Power on the 8th March 2010. He can disapprove all he wants, we're stilling propping up their education system (and basically everything else too) and maybe if everyone who gives them aid threatened to take it away they'd listen. I'd like to support the education of girls in Uganda, but not if it means 100s of thousands of people are going to be imprisoned or killed.

    What about the actual minister for foreign affairs, Micheal Martin? What's he up to?
    More on how much we give to Uganda
    http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/uganda.asp

    What do you think the Ugandans are going to do to gays if they cost them their education and health care systems?
    We'll restore their aid after a month, because there won't be any gay people left to oppress.


    Look, people are mistreated in these countries all the time - if you steal in some villages you are bullwhipped ffs. They kill and mistreat people all the time - why are we suddenly going to withdraw aid over this one issue?
    If we withdraw aid on this then we have to withdraw aid on the numerous other ways they routinely fall short of our first-world standards.


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    #42
    thirtythirty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭thirtythirty


    witty_name wrote: »
    I'm appalled that there hasn't been mass protests across the western world about this...
    I do think that western governments should enter into negotiation with Uganda - threatening an embargo on the basis of human rights. I doubt they'll do that though.

    Hold on, hold on, hold on. You can't seriously be thinking that stuff can you!?!?

    You're talking about a country where albino black people are hunted and chopped up to be used in voodoo medicine, and then eaten because the people believe they'll endow them with special powers! And you're talking gay rights - something that is literally only getting momentum in the developed world extremely recently!!!

    I like you...but you crazy!


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    #43
    zippygirl
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭zippygirl


    DubArk wrote: »
    "Since a Ugandan MP proposed the death penalty for some gay people, homophobia has been on the rise in other parts of Africa......."

    ok, this is rather interesting... death penalty for SOME gay people?! What is that supposed to mean? Considering that Africans are so against racism and discrimination i am a bit surprised...?


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    #44
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    zippygirl wrote: »
    ok, this is rather interesting... death penalty for SOME gay people?! What is that supposed to mean? Considering that Africans are so against racism and discrimination i am a bit surprised...?

    I think that the SOME probably means nothing

    South Africa has a history of trying to tackle racism and discrimination. I'm not aware that Africa in general has

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #45
    shay_562
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭shay_562


    That couple in Malawi have been freed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/29/malawi-frees-jailed-gay-couple

    Seriously dodge. Making a statement that clearly says "These people have transgressed against you and everything you hold dear, but the UN is stopping us from punishing them..." seems very, very likely to lead to other people deciding to take matters into their own hands.


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    #46
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Rev Hellfire wrote: »
    And that means supporting aid programs to these countries.

    I would imagine that a lot of the aid programs are christian based and not likely to be campaigning for gay rights!


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    #47
    AnBealBocht
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭AnBealBocht


    Not all Christian sects are gay-unfriendly.


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    #48
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    AnBealBocht wrote: »
    Not all Christian sects are gay-unfriendly.
    Other than universal unitarians I can't think of any who are really into it...


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    #49
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    stephen_n wrote: »
    I would imagine that a lot of the aid programs are christian based and not likely to be campaigning for gay rights!

    That's not important.

    It doesn't matter if they actively campaign for gay rights or not, you're looking to raise both the standard of living and level of education of the population as a whole. Once you achieve that more liberal and inclusive thoughts typically follow.


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    #50
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I would imagine it is very important if the catholic church is involved in the education programs. That's not a dig at the catholic church, they have their beliefs and that's up to them but they are hardly going to teach open mindedness towards homosexuality are they? They show restraint here because of the zeitgeist would be anti intolerance I doubt very much that would be the case in Africa!


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