SU Elections

lithiumoxide

So I hear all candidates are running.

How did the Union Council get round the problem?

KenGriffin

lithiumoxide wrote: »

How did the Union Council get round the problem?

God only knows.

The legal position is that those candidates shouldn't run because their nominations aren't valid.

It's hardly a just solution but thinking about it last night, I couldn't envisage how they could fix it without engineering a reopen nominations situation.

andyman

KenGriffin wrote: »

God only knows.

The legal position is that those candidates shouldn't run because their nominations aren't valid.

It's hardly a just solution but thinking about it last night, I couldn't envisage how they could fix it without engineering a reopen nominations situation.

They allowed the candidates to choose a second proposer. It's only fair. It's not like Collie and Dara tried to cheat.

g5fd6ow0hseima

I just seen that yer man Collie who is going for Campaigns has flyers which double up as adverts for a clubnight in town.

How could anyone possibly vote for him?

douglashyde

Erica Jolly Neighborhood wrote: »

I just seen that yer man Collie who is going for Campaigns has flyers which double up as adverts for a clubnight in town.

How could anyone possibly vote for him?

Because thats proactive, innovative and fun. That's what the SU should be. That's what DCU should be.

iWilli

douglashyde wrote: »

Because thats proactive, innovative and fun. That's what the SU should be. That's what DCU should be.

So DCU and the SU should not be interested in the provision of a quality education and the welfare of its students, they should merely act as platform for advertisers...

I feel like I am having more fun already...

Green Hand Guy

douglashyde wrote: »

Because thats proactive, innovative and fun. That's what the SU should be. That's what DCU should be.

Yeah, because everyone uses the internet for its banner ads.

douglashyde

iWilli wrote: »

So DCU and the SU should not be interested in the provision of a quality education and the welfare of its students, they should merely act as platform for advertisers...

I feel like I am having more fun already...

Yes, they should also cater for disabled students and keep a high standard of hygiene. You could list 100 things that the SU and college should be interested in.

What I am saying is that Collie's campaign has been a fresh and innovative one. Is that a bad thing?

lithiumoxide

douglashyde wrote: »

What I am saying is that Collie's campaign has been a fresh and innovative one. Is that a bad thing?

Well using alcohol as a focus for an election campaign can't exactly be a good thing.

iWilli

douglashyde wrote: »

What I am saying is that Collie's campaign has been a fresh and innovative one. Is that a bad thing?

If I walk around with an advertisement for a night club shaved in to the back of my head, will that make me fresh and innovative?

I really hope so, I am not nearly as fresh as I could be...

monument

Looks like we have an unconstitutional election.

Here's the email this morning:

Hey guys,

Polling is now open, so be sure to cast your vote for the three sabbatical positions, Clubs & Socs Officer, Equality Officer and the convenor for your respective faculties. Polling Stations are in the Nursing Building, the Restaurant, the Hub and the Street.

Please note that this morning there was an Emergency Union Council meeting where a motion was put forward to allow candidates to change the details of their proposers and seconders. This was to facilitate two candidates who used the name of a student who (unbeknownst to them, the Electoral Committee and various administrative bodies of the university) was not a registered student. Enclosed is the motion put forward as well as the statement given by the Returning Officer.

Regards,

Roibeárd Ó Conchúir
Returning Officer
Students' Union 2009/2010

The motion, in full as emailed out:

This Union Council (herein refereed to as the 'council') notes with extreme dismay the exceptional circumstances surrounding the nominations of Colin
Oliver and Dara McGann for Vice President Campaigns and Information and
Humanities Convenor respectively.


The Council recognises that both parties acted in good faith and at no time
have attempted to mislead the Electoral Commission or the membership of the
Union.

The Council further recognises that the DCUSU Constitution is sovereign and
as such Council believes that the Constitution should be interpreted as a
'living document' with reference to the doctrine of stare decisis.


The Council affirms the precedent set by recognising the judgements of the
Commission of Arbitration but believes that in this exceptional circumstance
the doctrine of stare decisis is applicable.

Therefore Council, as the higher level of governance than the Commission of
Arbitration, the Electoral Commission or Union Executive mandates the
following:

That the Returning Officer accepts as a nominee for both parties named above
a replacement registered student, whose registration was valid during the
2010 Nominations period, and allows both parties to run as legitimate
candidates in the 2010 Union General Election once the the student status of
the replacement nominees is verfified. Where challenges on this mandate are
made to the Electoral Commission the decision of this Council shall be
referred to and its authority as the higher level of governance should be
respected in this matter. This is without prejudice to the right of any
party involved in the elections to challenge any other element of the
election process.

I'm not republishing the statement as it uses fairly strong wording at one point which relates not only to this issue, but possibly to wider conduct.

lithiumoxide wrote: »

So I hear all candidates are running.

How did the Union Council get round the problem?

They are trying to claim black is white.

That the Returning Officer accepts as a nominee for both parties named above a replacement registered student, whose registration was valid during the 2010 Nominations period, and allows both parties to run as legitimate candidates in the 2010 Union General Election once the the student status of the replacement nominees is verfified. Where challenges on this mandate are made to the Electoral Commission the decision of this Council shall be referred to and its authority as the higher level of governance should be respected in this matter. This is without prejudice to the right of any party involved in the elections to challenge any other element of the election process.

As per the following sections of the constitution:

10.1.10 In the case of nominations for non-sabbatical positions to the executive, a nomination shall include one proposer and two seconders, who must be registered students of DCU. 10.1.11 In the case of nominations for sabbatical positions to the executive, a nomination shall include two proposers and three seconders, who must be registered students of DCU.

And:

10.1.4 The nomination period for all Union elections shall be at least one academic week.

Nominations are not valid until articles 10.1.10 and 10.1.11 are complied with. And the time for nominations must be at least one week (not the same day as polls open).

There seems to be no room here for retrospectively adding a proposer or seconder. But I'm open to correction on how this is possible.


And a bigger question: Are there other constitutional issues arising from now knowing that somebody is not a student when the person was involved in various bodies?

douglashyde

lithiumoxide wrote: »

Well using alcohol as a focus for an election campaign can't exactly be a good thing.

This was not the entire campaign - rather, just part of it. He wrote a campaign poem and his posters where different then anything DCU has seen before.

From a pure marketing perspective, this campaign was very well thought out as it did not focus on one single area. The norm now seems to be:

1. Make facebook page.
2. Make flyers + posters that state Vote #insert name here~ NO.1
3. Free lollies and sweets.
4. Pray.

Also, using nightclub flyers was less about using drink promotions to further his campaign rather it was about targeting students and being differentiating himself from everyone else.

Just to point out - Im talking from a pure marketing campaign point of view - this says very little about experience or merits.

lil_cain

I'd question whether Union Council does actually outrank the Commission of Arbitration w/r to this (and what precedent they're acting upon). In any case, this is constitutional if the commission interprets it to be constitutional. Since the constitution says what they say it does. If you think that Union Council is acting contrary to the constitution, then you should bring it up with them, not spout allegations of unconstitutionality on boards.

(as for how they can, as dozens of people have pointed out, the present circumstances are not covered under the constitution. It's similar to the way A is still in jail. Yes, he was convicted under a law which was unconstitutional and therefore didn't exist. But to let him out would be against common sense, and basic justice. So the constitution must be read with those two things in mind. When you read it with those two in mind, you can easily add un-enumerated rules to deal with this situation, just as the Supreme court could decide that the annulment of the statutory rape act did not invalidate all prosecutions under that act, merely those which dealt with the issue in CC.)

myk

monument wrote: »

Looks like we have an unconstitutional election.

Here's the email this morning:
[SNIP]

Meh, seems like a reasonable approach. I'm sure the other candidates will have enough sense not to challenge this if either of the candidates in question are elected.

monument wrote: »

I'm not republishing the statement as it uses fairly strong wording at one point which relates not only to this issue, but possibly to wider conduct.

Strong wording? Now I'm even more curious. You could start another DCU thread on the other issues concerned

Cid-Highwind

monument wrote: »

the time for nominations must be at least one week (not the same day as polls open).

There have been no new nominations, just changes to the submitted ones. This point is irrelevant

monument wrote: »

There seems to be no room here for retrospectively adding a proposer or seconder. But I'm open to correction on how this is possible.

Because the constitution does not specify a course of action in the case that the candidate had good reason to believe that their nominator was a registered student, but is later found not to be. Allowing them to select an alternate person to endorse their nomination under such circumstances is an acceptable interpretation.

monument wrote: »

And a bigger question: Are there other constitutional issues arising from now knowing that somebody is not a student when the person was involved in various bodies?

Unlikely. There has been no suggestion thus far that this person was involved in any Students' Union post/committee.

lil_cain

douglashyde wrote: »

This was not the entire campaign - rather, just part of it. He wrote a campaign poem and his posters where different then anything DCU has seen before.

From a pure marketing perspective, this campaign was very well thought out as it did not focus on one single area. The norm now seems to be:

1. Make facebook page.
2. Make flyers + posters that state Vote #insert name here~ NO.1
3. Free lollies and sweets.
4. Pray.

Also, using nightclub flyers was less about using drink promotions to further his campaign rather it was about targeting students and being differentiating himself from everyone else.

Just to point out - Im talking from a pure marketing campaign point of view - this says very little about experience or merits.

We had facebook ads last year, when Andrew Harford was running for C&I. You get something of a kick out of seeing an ad for your candidate on the facebook group of the opposition candidate.

Also, up until last year, most candidates for sabbatical positions went round knocking on doors in Res, and talking to classes as well as this.

myk

lil_cain wrote: »

We had facebook ads last year, when Andrew Harford was running for C&I. You get something of a kick out of seeing an ad for your candidate on the facebook group of the opposition candidate.

Also, up until last year, most candidates for sabbatical positions went round knocking on doors in Res, and talking to classes as well as this.

Did the candidates not do class addresses last year? I always found it the most effective way of campaigning or promoting anything in DCU.

phantom_lord

apologies if someone already explained this earlier but it's a long thread to go through, but what's the story with this person that wasn't a registered student? he actually was on the committee for a soc as well? all seems a bit odd, was he just pretending to be in a course or something? go to lectures too? seems a tad silly for him to nominate people anyway knowing his circumstances.

Cid-Highwind

lil_cain wrote: »

We had facebook ads last year, when Andrew Harford was running for C&I. You get something of a kick out of seeing an ad for your candidate on the facebook group of the opposition candidate.

Also, up until last year, most candidates for sabbatical positions went round knocking on doors in Res, and talking to classes as well as this.

Yea, the facebook thing was cool

In the context of the campaign, it extra sense for us to advertise on facebook since I was making a point in my manifesto that tools like facebook were a great cost effective way to reach large numbers of students - I had at the time seen adverts on facebook for events at trinity and UCD, but never anything for DCU.

In terms of it being cost effective, the ads received 121 clicks and 38,491 impressions and cost just $6.93 and took 15 minutes to set up.

Facebook is not a substitute for talking to classes and knocking on doors, but given it's popularity among students I can't see how anyone can afford to ignore it now,

douglashyde

As chairperson of Poker Society I know the full story of the "non registered" student! Am I allowed us names on boards MOD?

smokeanddaggers

well considering an email with their name and student number was sent at all students this morning, I'd say everyone will know who your talking about without directly mentioning their name.

can I also say I'd be a little concerned about that persons feelings/mental state at the moment because of said emails. Was it really necessary to provide those details when their actions already suggest they maybe having problems?

myk

As someone who isn't a current student, but is a nosey graduate, please feel free to PM me this e-mail

rugbug86

myk wrote: »

As someone who isn't a current student, but is a nosey graduate, please feel free to PM me this e-mail

Ditto

I'd say if Collie/Dara get elected the candidates who don't will kick up some fuss about it. Myk do you remember the year of Pauls election? Nothing similar but the election had to be recalled.

snowcrazie

smokeanddaggers wrote: »

well considering an email with their name and student number was sent at all students this morning, I'd say everyone will know who your talking about without directly mentioning their name.

can I also say I'd be a little concerned about that persons feelings/mental state at the moment because of said emails. Was it really necessary to provide those details when their actions already suggest they maybe having problems?

I completely agree, I cannot understand the reason for the email today to the allsoc list. That will have gone out to most of the college and seriously effect the person in question. Yes what they did was wrong, but the situation is not one for the entire student population to be told about. As most of them careless about the issue of the SPC until theres a scandal such as this!

myk

rugbug86 wrote: »

Ditto

I'd say if Collie/Dara get elected the candidates who don't will kick up some fuss about it. Myk do you remember the year of Pauls election? Nothing similar but the election had to be recalled.

I remember it well. Luckily there was enough time in that case to have a valid election. But that year it was just silly carelessness on the part of the returning officer and the electoral committee. This case seems quite different.

rugbug86

myk wrote: »

I remember it well. Luckily there was enough time in that case to have a valid election. But that year it was just silly carelessness on the part of the returning officer and the electoral committee. This case seems quite different.

Yeah, different case completely, but the same potential outcome whereby if candidates don't get elected they may kick up a fuss and blame the electoral committee.

To be fair in this case if I was up against the other candidate and wasn't elected, I'd be fairly peeved that they were allowed to run when they weren't properly nominated!

douglashyde

Trust me; there is still alot more to come out!

monument

lil_cain wrote: »

I'd question whether Union Council does actually outrank the Commission of Arbitration w/r to this (and what precedent they're acting upon). In any case, this is constitutional if the commission interprets it to be constitutional. Since the constitution says what they say it does.

That's a good point.

And if the action this morning goes unchallenged it will create a precedent of looking at the constitution in whatever way suits.

lil_cain wrote: »

If you think that Union Council is acting contrary to the constitution, then you should bring it up with them, not spout allegations of unconstitutionality on boards.

Public debate is a key part of any democracy, however small.

I'm not simply making an allegation. I am backing up what I am saying, I'd see it as fair comment. Anybody who disagrees is welcome to changing what I am saying. State agencies, councils, councillors, companies etc are interacting with people on boards.ie, I don't see why people within DCU can. On the other hand if I'm breaking any rules of this site, you can report me.

lil_cain wrote: »

(as for how they can, as dozens of people have pointed out, the present circumstances are not covered under the constitution. It's similar to the way A is still in jail. Yes, he was convicted under a law which was unconstitutional and therefore didn't exist. But to let him out would be against common sense, and basic justice. So the constitution must be read with those two things in mind. When you read it with those two in mind, you can easily add un-enumerated rules to deal with this situation, just as the Supreme court could decide that the annulment of the statutory rape act did not invalidate all prosecutions under that act, merely those which dealt with the issue in CC.)

I don't think that's quite comparable:

First, no rapists were going to be released.

Secondly, the Supreme court ruling something is more like the Commission of Arbitration doing the same (and at that still not very comparable). The reps voting on a motion this morning where such is against the constitution is more comparable to an act of the of the Dail, although the latter seems to have more safe guards which isn't saying much.

Cid-Highwind wrote: »

There have been no new nominations, just changes to the submitted ones. This point is irrelevant

It's relevant because the full process of nominations has to happen before somebody is a valid candidate.

Cid-Highwind wrote: »

Because the constitution does not specify a course of action in the case that the candidate had good reason to believe that their nominator was a registered student, but is later found not to be. Allowing them to select an alternate person to endorse their nomination under such circumstances is an acceptable interpretation.

It specifies the nominations period is one week, it specifies that to become a candidate one must have a current students as a proposer and seconder.

The text on these issues do not allow for retrospectively adding a proposer and seconder. Is there a clause elsewhere which allows for this part of the text to be superseded without a referendum?

supine

douglashyde wrote: »

Just a question:

To run for an SU exec position:

Do you need to be a registered student within DCU?

Have finished your degree in DCU?

Have passed your degree in DCU?

For example, can I drop out in 2nd year and decide to run for SU president.

I just reread the first post in this thread. Instead of loving being the centre of attention, had you just come out with what you quite obviously knew, way back when, you might have saved all this hassle. I hope you're proud.

discus

Baaaaaaaaaahahaha!

This thread is quality.