SU Elections

gizmo

Since people continue to take offense at the E&S images/references, I've had to remove them from the thread. Please refrain from having a go at them in such a manner in the future.

Since we now have manifestos, the Hustings and the DCUFM Presidential Debate to consider, I'm sure there's enough material out there to help people make up their minds. Well, at least until this meeting on Tuesday anyway...

phasers

The suspence is killing me!

tvservices

Seen as I know the basic story, it is very entertaining to watch the suspense killing everyone else!! Sorry...:D

Diarmsquid

tvservices wrote: »

Seen as I know the basic story, it is very entertaining to watch the suspense killing everyone else!! Sorry...:D

Why is it being kept a secret?
Surely if Union Council has to make a decision on something, an agenda or at least an idea of what to expect should be circulated to give class reps time to research/form their opinion or whatever.

tvservices

I was told off the record (because I asked), im not suppossed to know. It is a very serious matter though, and also a forum such as this is hardly the place to tell you in any case.

lil_cain

tvservices wrote: »

I was told off the record (because I asked), im not suppossed to know. It is a very serious matter though, and also a forum such as this is hardly the place to tell you in any case.

Bollocks. if it's an electoral issue important enough to call students together for, then people have the right to know, in any, and every forum going, *before* they cast their votes on Tuesday. Allowing people vote before whatever this is is revealed is leaving the entire election open to challenge.

Not only that, but Union Council is a group of class representatives. They're supposed to put forward their classes views, not run the Union themselves. They can hardly bloody well do that if they don't know what their going to be talking about until they actually get into the chamber.

OrionsBelt

lil_cain wrote: »

Bollocks. if it's an electoral issue important enough to call students together for, then people have the right to know, in any, and every forum going, *before* they cast their votes on Tuesday. Allowing people vote before whatever this is is revealed is leaving the entire election open to challenge.

Not only that, but Union Council is a group of class representatives. They're supposed to put forward their classes views, not run the Union themselves. They can hardly bloody well do that if they don't know what their going to be talking about until they actually get into the chamber.

here here. if one person can be told off the record, why not tell all the students on the record? it only reenforces the belief of the SU being some exclusive clique

Green Hand Guy

lil_cain wrote: »

Bollocks. if it's an electoral issue important enough to call students together for, then people have the right to know, in any, and every forum going, *before* they cast their votes on Tuesday. Allowing people vote before whatever this is is revealed is leaving the entire election open to challenge.

Not only that, but Union Council is a group of class representatives. They're supposed to put forward their classes views, not run the Union themselves. They can hardly bloody well do that if they don't know what their going to be talking about until they actually get into the chamber.

I agree. I want to know what's going on.

gizmo

To be honest, if it's that serious and it's not happening until the evening after the polls open then the Returning Officer needs to step in and sort something out, whether it's postponing the polls (if it's that serious) or announcing the issue and stating when it will be discussed.

andrew163

lil_cain wrote:

stuff

I agree with this. It's not only annoying hearing people going "AAHH ELECTORAL PROBLEM, DEMOCRACY IS OVER - but we won't give you any details at all", but if it's as big a deal as some people have been making of it, it's probably unwise to vote before it's all out in the open. You'd think a candidate had murdered their opponents and blackmailed the SU from reading a few facebook threads.

(It doesn't actually affect me, I won't get a chance to vote until at least the afternoon anyway, but it's *really* annoying).

thusspakeblixa

I don't get this.

What are the SU going to do if someone tells the plebs the story on this thread?
I'm frankly disgusted that noone has bothered. And if the campus media know the blame lies with them too (I am on the College View team and I don't know but can't speak for the entire team).
If you are a class rep/union official/someone 'in the know', do your job. You have a constituency to represent and inform if you are elected or otherwise have a mandate.

If it's a legal issue, under the Defamation Act 2009 something is not defamatory if it can be proven as being true.

So unless this is all hubbub and lies, why the hold-up?

milkwine

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I don't get this.

What are the SU going to do if someone tells the plebs the story on this thread?
I'm frankly disgusted that noone has bothered. And if the campus media know the blame lies with them too (I am on the College View team and I don't know but can't speak for the entire team).
If you are a class rep/union official/someone 'in the know', do your job. You have a constituency to represent and inform if you are elected or otherwise have a mandate.

If it's a legal issue, under the Defamation Act 2009 something is not defamatory if it can be proven as being true.

So unless this is all hubbub and lies, why the hold-up?

I agree

johan

What if it can't be proven to be true?

@gizmo according to someone who posted here the polls arn't opening till 10am, and the meeting is at 9am

robby^5

I'm not voting until we are informed what this meeting is all about, I''ll abstain from the whole process if need be.

didnthearnothin

I understand it has something to do with a student, who signed on a form for a candidate in order to allow them to run, not being a student for some time.

This is what the previous edited post said.

gizmo

johan wrote: »

What if it can't be proven to be true?

@gizmo according to someone who posted here the polls arn't opening till 10am, and the meeting is at 9am

Ah, true. Well in that case you still need to look at a potential time-line. If the meeting starts at 9am then, given the nature and importance of agenda, it will probably go on for at least 30mins. That leaves a time-frame of 30mins for whatever information or decision which comes from the meeting to be delivered to the student body. You're then hoping people check their email before they go to vote.

Personally, I don't think that's acceptable.

Diarmsquid

I have it on good authority that details of the fiasco will be circulated to class reps prior to Union Council.

For now we wait...

OrionsBelt

Diarmsquid wrote: »

I have it on good authority that details of the fiasco will be circulated to class reps prior to Union Council.

For now we wait...

so the rest of the voting public (students) are left in the dark? when did the su move to leinster house

and before anyone sees the class reps will inform their classes, if i was to rely on my class rep for info i'd never get any!

thusspakeblixa

johan wrote: »

What if it can't be proven to be true?

If it can't be proven to be true then it could result in a defamation action being taken.

If there is a source in the union going "off the record" telling people what's going on, then chances are they aren't lying. The people on FB talking about it (not directly) are fairly high up in the union. Again- can't see them lying.

If no names are named and noone is directly alluded to (so that it's obvious from the words who the person is), no legal action can be taken.

didnthearnothin

I agree. This information should be made available to the voting students as early and as widly as possible. While I am not sure if it will reflect in any way on the candidate, it may have other repercussions.

eagleye7

This is an email that was just sent to class reps. Ill provide it without comment:

Hi all again,

Just a follow on from my last email. I apologise for the vagueness of my last email, however we wanted to get confirmation on one or two issues before going in to detail. My prior email was sent out to flag the time ASAP.


Essentially, an individual we believed to have been a registered student in DCU, is in fact not a registered student at all. This person has signed the nomination form of two candidates in the election. As a result, Union Council needs to decide whether or not their nominations are valid. Neither of the candidates were aware that this person was not registered.


If you've any questions, they will be answered on Tuesday morning.


Regards,


John Murphy

monument

johan wrote: »

What if it can't be proven to be true?

If that was the case it should not have caused the meeting to be called in the first place. But according to the info from the union, it seems to be true.

thusspakeblixa

I've pretty much summarised the situation (as revealed to the student body through the medium of boards) over on my blog.

Not pimping my wares, just for anyone who missed anything.

Attol

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I've pretty much summarised the situation (as revealed to the student body through the medium of boards) over on my blog.

Not pimping my wares, just for anyone who missed anything.

You're giving out in your blog that class reps haven't forwarded an email they received at 11pm on Easter Sunday. You realise it's 35 minutes after that email was sent? And it's Easter Sunday...

Yes. Terrible cover up there. God forbid people sleep or spend time with their families during holidays.

monument

Attol wrote: »

You're giving out in your blog that class reps haven't forwarded an email they received at 11pm on Easter Sunday. You realise it's 35 minutes after that email was sent? And it's Easter Sunday...

Yes. Terrible cover up there. God forbid people sleep or spend time with their families during holidays.

I agree that it's too soon to give out about the class reps, but I think the main point is the union should be telling everybody, and that point stands.

thusspakeblixa

Attol wrote: »

You're giving out in your blog that class reps haven't forwarded an email they received at 11pm on Easter Sunday. You realise it's 35 minutes after that email was sent? And it's Easter Sunday...

Yes. Terrible cover up there. God forbid people sleep or spend time with their families during holidays.

The SU could have sent it to the entire student body. They didn't. By emailing it to the class reps, it was (hopefully) meant to get to the student body through class reps.

I understand that it is Easter Sunday. However, from what I can see (talking directly to class reps as well as facebook statuses etc.) a good number of class reps have known about this for at least two days now.

Granted, I'm expecting a bit much of class reps but maybe that's because I'm annoyed with mine. :P

I amn't expecting too much from the SU. This is, after all, their job.


Also- how the hell is all this only coming out now? It's the weekend before elections ffs. Should the proposer not be checked when, y'know, the proposal is made?

legendal

Wha'? You mean something dramatic and interesting is happening on campus?!

Edgar Penzig

gizmo wrote: »

To be honest, if it's that serious and it's not happening until the evening after the polls open then the Returning Officer needs to step in and sort something out, whether it's postponing the polls (if it's that serious) or announcing the issue and stating when it will be discussed.

The meeting is happening on Tuesday morning, before polls open, to ensure that polling goes ahead as planned and the countless hours and skipped lectures that people have put in (without pay and with little thanks) doesn't all count for nothing.

You guys all go on and on about the Union and how it's "their job" pretending as though they're rich fatcats who don't care about the students. There's a reason this wasn't distributed to the students yet. The SU hasn't had any legal consultation about any of this. It's still all up in the air. You really think they're going to go posting all-student mails about <mod snip> some guy?!

Are you seriously telling me you want to have polling postponed because of this stupid bureaucracy? You don't want to be able to vote because you weren't officially told about some guy <mod snip>?

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

Also- how the hell is all this only coming out now? It's the weekend before elections ffs. Should the proposer not be checked when, y'know, the proposal is made?

Should a student not be checked by the SPC when he joins a club or a society? Not only that, but when he chairs a club or a society?! What about DCU Registry and all the other administrative bodies of the University? Your blaming a voluntary committee because they weren't the ones responsible for uncovering two years of some odd behavior? <mod snip>

Plus, there are 18 candidates running. That means that there are well over 60 proposers and seconders. Find it in your black heart to forgive the Electoral Committee for not doing extensive background checks on long-established members of clubs and societies and a number of campaign teams, for the past two years.

phasers

^ I would have thought it was pretty easy to check whether students existed or not.

thusspakeblixa

Edgar Penzig wrote: »

Should a student not be checked by the SPC when he joins a club or a society? Not only that, but when he chairs a club or a society?! What about DCU Registry and all the other administrative bodies of the University? Your blaming a voluntary committee because they weren't the ones responsible for uncovering two years of shyster studenting?

Plus, there are 18 candidates running. That means that there are well over 60 proposers and seconders. Find it in your black heart to forgive the Electoral Committee for not doing extensive background checks on long-established members of clubs and societies and a number of campaign teams, for the past two years.

Voluntary or not, they have a duty.
As do all of the others you mention. There are questions that need answering.
Doesn't take extensive background checks to check student numbers. As you say, any chair of a society can do it.

I'd still like an answer as to why exactly it all came out so late.

By the way- if the SU can reveal information to the class reps there is no legal reason they couldn't release that information to the rest of us.