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Sean Fitz arrested?
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Mr. Incognito wrote: »
I'll be interested to see what he is ultimately charged with.
Treason
the gardai need to decide around about now whether to charge him, detain him for longer or let him slide back to his mansion. 0 -
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Laminations wrote: »Treason the gardai need to decide around about now whether to charge him, detain him for longer or let him slide back to his mansion.
I doubt there'll be any charges after the detention, file to DPP I'd say0 -
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Ah! :rolleyes:
Problem with accountants aswell do we? what pray tell do you do Pah?I never studied B&L in UCD and I am not an accountant.
i only posted what i studied and what i am under direct questioning from a solicitor
:D
Obviously i have rubbed some people up the wrong way, which wasnt really my intention. my view on the whole thing is that until someone is seen being lead to mountjoy in cuffs im not that sure that there will be any jail time served.
People want to see Seanie in jail, in many peoples eyes he is the very definition of what went wrong in this country, a lot of people feel that he has personally stolen money from them, and in many ways the actions of his bank has taken money from us all.
But looking at what people feel he will be charged with:
a) directors loans and non disclosure of them - loans themselves were not illegal, not disclosing them breaches co law, but will he be jailed for this? cant see it
also this is the only 'crime' that he will have acted alone in, everything else implicates a lot of people, both within and outside of anglo
b) the transfers of monies from IL&P to shore up the BS and hence misleading investors. Im sure this is a criminal offence under some piece of legislation, at the least its a dereliction of directors duties but also as our friend pah has pointed out it probably falls under section 10 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act
this offence implicates the whole anglo board aswell as senior management in IL&P, it will be interesting to see who, if anyone is jailed over this.
i would also put the qn to you, if you want to see someone jailed for the above, where do you stand on the other irish plcs?
All of the banks in 2008 understated the amount of provisioning required against bad debts on their balance sheet, shoring up the balance sheet and misleading investors,
any plc involved in property would have had friendly valuations of properties that should have been impaired etc etc
should the management of all these companies be charged aswell?
c) the golden circle business , to me i it seems like it should be illegal but i dont know if technically that it is? i would be very surprised if those guys hadnt taken detailed legal advice before doing something like this.
again our friend seanie wasnt acting alone here, and the more people involved, i think the less likely that we will see anyone goto jail
maybe i will be proven wrong.
Finally, the reason that i dont post in politics very often is that i think my politics wouldnt be that welcome here
the only party whose policies i agreed with were the PDs and the only political leader that i had any time for was Michael MacDowell. Of the current lot i believe Brian Lenihan has done a good job in difficult circumstances and the prospect of a labour/FG Gilmore/Kenny government scares the bejaysus out of me:) 0 -
A solicitor no less.Problem with accountants aswell do we? what pray tell do you do Pah?
i only posted what i studied and what i am under direct questioning from a solicitor:D
Obviously i have rubbed some people up the wrong way, which wasnt really my intention. my view on the whole thing is that until someone is seen being lead to mountjoy in cuffs im not that sure that there will be any jail time served.
People want to see Seanie in jail, in many peoples eyes he is the very definition of what went wrong in this country, a lot of people feel that he has personally stolen money from them, and in many ways the actions of his bank has taken money from us all.
But looking at what people feel he will be charged with:
a) directors loans and non disclosure of them - loans themselves were not illegal, not disclosing them breaches co law, but will he be jailed for this? cant see it
also this is the only 'crime' that he will have acted alone in, everything else implicates a lot of people, both within and outside of anglo
b) the transfers of monies from IL&P to shore up the BS and hence misleading investors. Im sure this is a criminal offence under some piece of legislation, at the least its a dereliction of directors duties but also as our friend pah has pointed out it probably falls under section 10 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act
this offence implicates the whole anglo board aswell as senior management in IL&P, it will be interesting to see who, if anyone is jailed over this.
i would also put the qn to you, if you want to see someone jailed for the above, where do you stand on the other irish plcs?
All of the banks in 2008 understated the amount of provisioning required against bad debts on their balance sheet, shoring up the balance sheet and misleading investors,
any plc involved in property would have had friendly valuations of properties that should have been impaired etc etc
should the management of all these companies be charged aswell?
c) the golden circle business , to me i it seems like it should be illegal but i dont know if technically that it is? i would be very surprised if those guys hadnt taken detailed legal advice before doing something like this.
again our friend seanie wasnt acting alone here, and the more people involved, i think the less likely that we will see anyone goto jail
maybe i will be proven wrong.
Finally, the reason that i dont post in politics very often is that i think my politics wouldnt be that welcome here the only party whose policies i agreed with were the PDs and the only political leader that i had any time for was Michael MacDowell. Of the current lot i believe Brian Lenihan has done a good job in difficult circumstances and the prospect of a labour/FG Gilmore/Kenny government scares the bejaysus out of me:)
Right,
If it is found that there were others at director level and indeed the Financial regulator at the time, who were complicit or knew about these transactions and the transactions or work around them are found to be in breach of some laws then yes, they to should be investigated and stand trial for this.........will that happen......probably not.0 -
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Surely if these transactions were illegal, we should see arrest of hundreds more people?
Seanie didn't do it all by himself. A Vincent Brownski guest last night suggested there would be around 40 people in Anglo who would have worked on these transactions, but it would have been signed off by the regulator, and then what about the people who received the payments at Irish Nationwide. Did they know the nature of the transaction?
The question though is if the investigation is around the billions of short term deposit from ILP or if it is the hiding of personal loans with Nationwide?
like the guy said its only a matter of time that more people are brought in for questioning
who knows how deep this rabbit hole goes
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Obviously i have rubbed some people up the wrong way, which wasnt really my intention. my view on the whole thing is that until someone is seen being lead to mountjoy in cuffs im not that sure that there will be any jail time served.
People want to see Seanie in jail, in many peoples eyes he is the very definition of what went wrong in this country, a lot of people feel that he has personally stolen money from them, and in many ways the actions of his bank has taken money from us all.
But looking at what people feel he will be charged with:
a) directors loans and non disclosure of them - loans themselves were not illegal, not disclosing them breaches co law, but will he be jailed for this? cant see it
also this is the only 'crime' that he will have acted alone in, everything else implicates a lot of people, both within and outside of anglo
b) the transfers of monies from IL&P to shore up the BS and hence misleading investors. Im sure this is a criminal offence under some piece of legislation, at the least its a dereliction of directors duties but also as our friend pah has pointed out it probably falls under section 10 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act
this offence implicates the whole anglo board aswell as senior management in IL&P, it will be interesting to see who, if anyone is jailed over this.
i would also put the qn to you, if you want to see someone jailed for the above, where do you stand on the other irish plcs?
All of the banks in 2008 understated the amount of provisioning required against bad debts on their balance sheet, shoring up the balance sheet and misleading investors,
any plc involved in property would have had friendly valuations of properties that should have been impaired etc etc
should the management of all these companies be charged aswell?
c) the golden circle business , to me i it seems like it should be illegal but i dont know if technically that it is? i would be very surprised if those guys hadnt taken detailed legal advice before doing something like this.
again our friend seanie wasnt acting alone here, and the more people involved, i think the less likely that we will see anyone goto jail
maybe i will be proven wrong.
Finally, the reason that i dont post in politics very often is that i think my politics wouldnt be that welcome here the only party whose policies i agreed with were the PDs and the only political leader that i had any time for was Michael MacDowell. Of the current lot i believe Brian Lenihan has done a good job in difficult circumstances and the prospect of a labour/FG Gilmore/Kenny government scares the bejaysus out of me:)
Never apologise for your point of view Sir.
No point in handing over the forum to a hard core who want to promulgate a particular view.
No hidden meaning or agenda to that, just never be afraid to articulate your views even though you may be pilloried for it
If it's any consolation I thought McDowell was a good 'un too .0 -
FlutterinBantam wrote: »If it's any consolation I thought McDowell was a good 'un too .
oh dear god :eek:
i have a place on my personal grudge shelf reserved just for him 0 -
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indeed i have
how do you define the amounts of the loans as excessive by the way? in hindsight they are but again at the time i would imagine they were secured on assets that i was believed were worth in excess of the amounts
They were excessive when compared to directors loans at similar sized banking institutions worldwide.
They were even in excess of the director loans given out by major banks like Rabobank, RBS, etc AFAIKit strikes me as wierd that you have an issue with me posting,
i have an interest in the irish business world and this topic interests me
No the reason it strikes me as weird in that you claim you are not defending banks/bankers and yet your are very vocal in this one doign exactly that.
If you were posting to the same level in every business related thread then it wouldn't have struck me as weird.im interested to hear how you define the hiding of the loans as illegal
It is failing to declare interests, misleading the company published accounts and AFAIK a breach of directors rules as part of company law ?i agree re the risk assessment
however he was perfectly within his rights at the time to borrow from anglo
No one is questioning his right to borrow money, they are questioning his hiding of these loans so that they didn't appear in the company accounts.
Also they are questioning how excessive they were and how they are now not being repaid. :mad:"New" people (heavens to betsy) come to the Politics forum all the time. Deal with the view of the "new" people if you choose but questioning their rationale for having an interest for little reason other than you think it's "somewhat weird" is personalising the discussion. And as you probably well know we don't do that. So neither do you please.
/mod
I have no problem with new posters, I welcome them.
I only raised the point that it is weird that poster suddenly arrives on one particular thread, makes excuses for individual being discussed, tries to make light of their probable misdemeanours and yet claims they are not defending them in any way ?
BTW it would be nice if you or one of your colleagues were so quick to warn other posters, who happen to be mods, from personalising the discussion by making personal remarks about people's ability :rolleyes:FlutterinBantam wrote: »...
If it's any consolation I thought McDowell was a good 'un too .
Oh dear God :mad:McDowell was excellent, his problem was he did what was he felt was right rather than what was politically right, hence his low popularity, if our current TD's shared his integrity we'd be in a far better place.
Yeah he knew what was right and what was politically right :rolleyes:
You do remember how he had such a terrible time trying to figure out if it was right or wrong to withdraw support from a taoiseach who was wasting taxpayers money in a tribunal, all the while coming up with cock and bull stories that very few believed as to why he had no bank account and had wads of foriegn currency in his safe.
Yeah the man will be remembered for his principled stand on this issue. :rolleyes:I am not allowed discuss …
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Oh dear God :mad:
Yeah he knew what was right and what was politically right :rolleyes:
You do remember how he had such a terrible time trying to figure out if it was right or wrong to withdraw support from a taoiseach who was wasting taxpayers money in a tribunal, all the while coming up with cock and bull stories that very few believed as to why he had no bank account and had wads of foriegn currency in his safe.
Yeah the man will be remembered for his principled stand on this issue. :rolleyes:
These are strange times indeed. When I find myself agreeing with jmayo, something must be wrong 0 -
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