Most religious people don't *really* believe in god after all

--amadeus--

Consider the scenario...

Your most precious loved one (child, partner, parent, sibling) has been kidnapped by a sociopath. The police know that this guy has a long record of sadistic torture of innocent people and he now has your most loved relative in his grasp. While they are currently unharmed - and indeed may be safe for a while - at some point you are assured that they will be brutally mutilated in the most obscene manner imaginable.

What would you do?

Obvioulsy anything the police ask. You'd raise ransom money, hire hit men and private detectives. Do as much press and TV as you could. And if it was physically possible you'd probably attempt a rescue yourself. Indeed even if your loved one had been duped and thought they were blissfully safe you would probably take them against thier will (and using force if needed) in the knowledge that you were saving them from - literally - a fate worse than death.

What you wouldn't do is once a week roll your eyes and mutter that they should really leave that nasty man or they will regret it.

(see where I'm going with this )

Yet millions of christians around the globe do exactly that every single day. They blithley bid good morning to co-workers, family members and good friends secure and certain that on judgement day they will be cast into an everlong pit of flames. Surely no one is *that* callous?

Maybe, after all, they know that it's not all true? Because if it was and they utterly believed they way they say they do then your nearest religious relative would be kidnapping your backside and hauling it to church, no matter what you say!

Any thoughts?

(original idea from a blog whose link I've lost)

amacachi

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Consider the scenario...

Your most precious loved one (child, partner, parent, sibling) has been kidnapped by a sociopath. The police know that this guy has a long record of sadistic torture of innocent people and he now has your most loved relative in his grasp. While they are currently unharmed - and indeed may be safe for a while - at some point you are assured that they will be brutally mutilated in the most obscene manner imaginable.

What would you do?

Obvioulsy anything the police ask. You'd raise ransom money, hire hit men and private detectives. Do as much press and TV as you could. And if it was physically possible you'd probably attempt a rescue yourself. Indeed even if your loved one had been duped and thought they were blissfully safe you would probably take them against thier will (and using force if needed) in the knowledge that you were saving them from - literally - a fate worse than death.

What you wouldn't do is once a week roll your eyes and mutter that they should really leave that nasty man or they will regret it.

(see where I'm going with this )

Yet millions of christians around the globe do exactly that every single day. They blithley bid good morning to co-workers, family members and good friends secure and certain that on judgement day they will be cast into an everlong pit of flames. Surely no one is *that* callous?

Maybe, after all, they know that it's not all true? Because if it was and they utterly believed they way they say they do then your nearest religious relative would be kidnapping your backside and hauling it to church, no matter what you say!

Any thoughts?

(original idea from a blog whose link I've lost)

And if they try to convert someone then they're annoying people.

oeb

Or as I read recently:

Would you wear a seat belt if you really thought you would experience everlasting bliss and eternal happiness after death?

Dades

Shouldn't this be titled:

"Most religious people don't *really* believe in Hell after all"?

It kind of sums up belief for an awful lot of people. Belief in God is easy, at times comforting, and explains a few of lifes questions.
Belief in Hell on the other hand is a bit nasty, so we'll ignore that bit as it doesn't fit in with our fluffy view of God.

And let's face it the whole Hell thing is a bit transparent, similar to the not getting presents at Christmas concept.

@amacachi - I think you've missed the point.

krudler

had to be done

Gregor Samsa

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Yet millions of christians around the globe do exactly that every single day. They blithley bid good morning to co-workers, family members and good friends secure and certain that on judgement day they will be cast into an everlong pit of flames. Surely no one is *that* callous?

So your argument for your position that Chrisians don't really believe in god this that they don't bother us enough about it?

I'm an atheist, but this argument doesn't make any sense.

Do you have co-workers, family members or friends who smoke? Do you wrestle the cigarettes out of their hands, take the money from their pockets and purses so they can't buy any more, lock them in rooms until they defeat their deadly addiction?

Or do you let them smoke, in the knowledge that they stand a huge risk of cancer and emphysema and the painful deaths that go with them?

You couldn't be that callous, could you?

--amadeus--

amacachi wrote: »

And if they try to convert someone then they're annoying people.

You're missing the point I think.

It's the fact they don't get the screaming heebie jeebies at teh fact that people *don't* convert when asked that proves they don't believe, deep, deep down.

I've met people who really believe - I've seen them preach on street corners and you can almost feel thier anger when you reject the religion. They really, really feel that you are walking into a deadly trap.

But the vasy, overwhelming majority of religious people never attempt to convert anyone and don't seem that bothered if they fail.

If I saw a random stranger about to walk through a door and fall into a pit of fire I'd attempt to wrestle him to the ground, no matter what he said. Of course if it was a 0.001% chance of a pit of fire then I wouldn't, because that would be silly and embarass us both.

krudler

Dades wrote: »

Shouldn't this be titled:

"Most religious people don't *really* believe in Hell after all"?

It kind of sums up belief for an awful lot of people. Belief in God is easy, at times comforting, and explains a few of lifes questions.
Belief in Hell on the other hand is a bit nasty, so we'll ignore that bit as it doesn't fit in with our fluffy view of God.

And let's face it the whole Hell thing is a bit transparent, similar to the not getting presents at Christmas concept.

This annoys me, Christians waffle on about sin this and damnation that, but if you walked up to one and asked them plain out if your gay brother is going to burn in hell for being a gay then they'd swiftly point out that they dont hate sinners and sure god loves us all, making this whole hell place kinda redundant.

Im pretty sure I've broken all of gods guidelines aka the ten made up rules/commandments (except for murder and adultery) so by that logic I have a Ryanair flight to hell booked and paid for.

Zillah

Oh it's up to every individual to develop a personal relationship with God blah blah blah not my place to interfere fluh fluh fluh personal choice bleh bleh OH GOD WATCH OUT THAT PIANO IS ABOUT TO FALL ON YOU! *dives forward and shoves them out of the way*

Erren Music

krudler wrote: »

Im pretty sure I've broken all of gods guidelines aka the ten made up rules/commandments (except for murder and adultery) so by that logic I have a Ryanair flight to hell booked and paid for.

Me too.

It's kind of insane though that murder is number 5, and swearing about god is number 2.

Erren Music

krudler wrote: »

This annoys me, Christians waffle on about sin this and damnation that, but if you walked up to one and asked them plain out if your gay brother is going to burn in hell for being a gay then they'd swiftly point out that they dont hate sinners and sure god loves us all, making this whole hell place kinda redundant.

They don't like the gays very much.

krudler

Erren Music wrote: »

Me too.

It's kind of insane though that murder is number 5, and swearing about god is number 2.

and checking out your neighbours wifes arse is apparently worse than secretly hankering for that new lawnmover he got, the showoff.

ChocolateSauce

Well the people who do think I'm going to hell and want to make sure I don't whether I want to or not tend to be terrorists, so I'm perfectly content to let the Christians let me go to hell; the alternative is the dark ages where people didn't have a choice.

bnt

I don't like it when Theists try and tell me what I believe or not, so I'd prefer to avoid doing that to them. Call it a land grab for the ethical high ground, if you like. :cool:

checkyabadself

I agree with the thread title, sure there are those like that poor chap who tested his faith by walking into a lions den last week but his kind number in the minority.

The vast majority find it easy to say " Yeah, I believe in god, I dont get to mass often as I`d like(never) as I`m busy with the kids" (actually= watching soccer am/sleeping off a hangover/getting 18 holes in).

It`s convienient for them as most really dont care, but think, ooh, at least if I techniclly dont question it and say I`m a believer when questioned, surely the day I pop my clogs the big fella will think, "that Jeff fella, he`s alright you know, nice guy that Jeff".

It`s all very spineless, but most people who dont see the terrible atrocities caused and that aren`t personally affected by the belief in fairies will continue to have a "who cares" attitude.
It reminds me of people who start volunteering for an illness charity (cancer research/autism) when that particular illness touches their lives, but otherwise wouldn`t give a continental.

--amadeus--

To be fair there is a fair amount of tounge in cheek in this, but there is a serious point. As Dades said people tend to pick and choose the parts they believe in - again if they really at thier core believed then they wouldn't do that. If you think the bible is the divinely inspired word of god then you'll just take it at face value, not wriggle on "it might say x but means y"

And they are quick enough to tell us what we think, it's fun to turn the tables

liamw

--amadeus-- wrote: »

If you think the bible is the divinely inspired word of god then you'll just take it at face value, not wriggle on "it might say x but means y"

But you're not taking x in the right context. If you do you will see that it really means y!!! :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o