Manchester United vs Liverpool/Sunday 21st March/KO 13:30 (Mod note: Post #1 & #770)

Peyton Manning

kryogen wrote: »

not sure if its down to Fergie team selection or tactics tbh

Liverpool have outworked us in the last couple of meetings, they have been sharper and quicker to every ball and tackle

this falls on the players shoulders

Its been down to a lack of Darren Fletcher. Dont worry about it, we'll win easily.

d22ontour

It's funny how under-rated he is, i could only imagine if Fletch was English the media slurping about him lol

mayordenis

starbelgrade wrote: »

The Pool are great at the moral victories. Not much else though.

We've been fairly dynamite with regular victories against you lot for a while now.

kryogen

Archimedes wrote: »

Its been down to a lack of Darren Fletcher. Dont worry about it, we'll win easily.

id agree of course that Fletch has been a massive loss in so many big games the past 12 months, but he cant do it on his own

hopefully he can set the tone early, like Roy Keane did with Marc Overmars all those years ago and the team will follow his lead and oshow that they want it more

K-9

Archimedes wrote: »

Its been down to a lack of Darren Fletcher. Dont worry about it, we'll win easily.

Seeing as it was 8-2 to Liverpool over the last 3 games, he must be some player!

Seriously, he will make a big difference. Seriously worried about Insua, but I think Johnson can do some damage.

Not as downbeat as last week, I think Pool can get a point out of it.

Dave!

d22ontour wrote: »

It's funny how under-rated he is, i could only imagine if Fletch was English the media slurping about him lol

Everybody's been fapping over him this and last season mate, I don't think he's underrated at all.

kryogen

i hope Evra will be keeping Johnson occupied and not the other way around

kryogen

Dave! wrote: »

Everybody's been fapping over him this and last season mate, I don't think he's underrated at all.

+1 Fletch is now recognised for his importance to the team

you wanna talk underrated, hows about a Bulgarian?

Dave!

kryogen wrote: »

+1 Fletch is now recognised for his importance to the team

you wanna talk underrated, hows about a Bulgarian?

Do you ever shut up about that chap :pac:

kryogen

Dave! wrote: »

Do you ever shut up about that chap :pac:

rarely

very rarely

JerryHandbag

mayordenis wrote: »

We've been fairly dynamite with regular victories against you lot for a while now.

The last 3 yeah... and you deserved each and every one of them.

But the previous ones go like this

3-0 United
1-0 United
1-0 United
2-0 United
1-0 United
0-0 Draw
1-0 United
2-1 United
2-1 United
1-0 Liverpool
4-0 United
2-1 United
Not that regular is it???
(Notice I stopped posting the scores when Danny Murphy was a thorn in our side!!!!:D)

But lets stop living in the past, those scorelines mean NOTHING come sunday, I just have a feeling Liverpool will throw a spanner in the works....hopefully Blackburn will do similar to Chelsea

mayordenis

JerryHandbag wrote: »

The last 3 yeah... and you deserved each and every one of them.

But the previous ones go like this

3-0 United
1-0 United
1-0 United
2-0 United
1-0 United
0-0 Draw
1-0 United
2-1 United
2-1 United
1-0 Liverpool
4-0 United
2-1 United
Not that regular is it???
(Notice I stopped posting the scores when Danny Murphy was a thorn in our side!!!!:D)

But lets stop living in the past, those scorelines mean NOTHING come sunday, I just have a feeling Liverpool will throw a spanner in the works....hopefully Blackburn will do similar to Chelsea

Learn to read please,
Regular Victories (as in not Moral Victories) not count.

d22ontour

JerryHandbag wrote: »

(Notice I stopped posting the scores when Danny Murphy was a thorn in our side!!!!:D)

Another Rafa fook up there me thinks, letting him go so easily.He was a decent player who did a great job tbh.

JerryHandbag

mayordenis wrote: »

Learn to read please,
Regular Victories (as in not Moral Victories) not count.

Read? You're havin a laugh! I'm drinkin whiskey!
All I can say is I hate Danny Murphy for all those painful defeats he inflicted on us

Mr Alan

d22ontour wrote: »

Another Rafa fook up there me thinks, letting him go so easily.He was a decent player who did a great job tbh.

his replacement was pretty decent tbf.

JerryHandbag

d22ontour wrote: »

Another Rafa fook up there me thinks, letting him go so easily.He was a decent player who did a great job tbh.

He certainly did.....one of those Pool players I secretly admired, along with Xabi Alonso

kryogen

God i used to have nightmares when i saw Danny Murphy on the teamsheet against us

Mr Alan

JerryHandbag wrote: »

He certainly did.....one of those Pool players I secretly admired, along with Xabi Alonso

holy jesus. you realise Alonso was Murphys replacement?

JerryHandbag

Mr Alan wrote: »

holy jesus. you realise Alonso was Murphys replacement?

I didn't quite work it out in those terms, but yes I can safely say that I always thought Alonso just oozed class. OK maybe he wasnt the same during his last season or two (with the whole Gareth Barry possible transfer thing) but I just think the PL is a poorer league without him. Him and his Beckham-like goals

d22ontour

Mr Alan wrote: »

holy jesus. you realise Alonso was Murphys replacement?

Considering your style of play at the time one would think he was the future Hamann replacement, no ?

To say he was Murphys replacement wouldn't quite go well with a midfield consisting of Alonso,Masch,Lucas which we we have witnessed since,considering the midfield then of Gerrard,Hamann,Murphy was pretty solid.Now you have a midifeld consisting of 2 ball winners who offer nothing going forward compared to that threat.I guess Rafa was right replacing MurphyHamann with Alonso to then replace him with Barry which i am sure you are thankful in some way didn't materialize but are now stuck with 2 defensive midfielders and a eh AM who he won't play.You can't replace class like Alonso same as United with Ronaldo/Tevez.You don't replace, you adapt.We have tried to adapt and finally we are getting there.Have you adapted ?

Mr Alan

this is not a conversation i wanna have.

Luap

Mr Alan wrote: »

holy jesus. you realise Alonso was Murphys replacement?

And Lucas is Alonso's replacement.




Sure we're sorted now.

mayordenis

d22ontour wrote: »

Considering your style of play at the time one would think he was the future Hamann replacement, no ?

To say he was Murphys replacement wouldn't quite go well with a midfield consisting of Alonso,Masch,Lucas which we we have witnessed since,considering the midfield then of Gerrard,Hamann,Murphy was pretty solid.Now you have a midifeld consisting of 2 ball winners who offer nothing going forward compared to that threat.I guess Rafa was right replacing MurphyHamann with Alonso to then replace him with Barry which i am sure you are thankful in some way didn't materialize but are now stuck with 2 defensive midfielders and a eh AM who he won't play.You can't replace class like Alonso same as United with Ronaldo/Tevez.You don't replace, you adapt.We have tried to adapt and finally we are getting there.Have you adapted ?

You have it all wrong, Hamann was replaced by Mascherano (before that Sissoko), Murphy was replaced by Alonso (afterwards Lucas/Aqualani).

mayordenis

Maloney_o9 wrote: »

And Lucas is Alonso's replacement.




Sure we're sorted now.

Lucas and Aqualani, but aye Lucas will do another job of bossing the midfield against United if he's called upon.

Mr Alan wrote: »

this is not a conversation i wanna have.

I'll deal with it.

kryogen

is this now the Liverpool thread? that yoke just keeps expanding

d22ontour

mayordenis wrote: »

You have it all wrong, Hamann was replaced by Mascherano (before that Sissoko), Murphy was replaced by Alonso (afterwards Lucas/Aqualani).

Hamann who offered a threat going forward was replaced by a DM.
Murphy who offerd a threat was replaced by a quality player who offered a threat.
Afterwards replaced by a DM.

You do see where this is going, no ? Players who were a threat replaced by players who offer nothing going forward.
Would be hard to criticize your last choice seeing as Aquaman hasn't played for you.Unless he replaces one of the replacements then his inclusion would be null and void.2 players can't replace 1 if 1 of them doesn't actually play.
You are saying Hamann and Alonso were replaced by Mascharano and Lucas so ?
That's actually possibly worse than what i conjured up from the time, no ?

mayordenis

d22ontour wrote: »

Hamann who offered a threat going forward was replaced by a DM.
Murphy who offerd a threat was replaced by a quality player who offered a threat.
Afterwards replaced by a DM.

You do see where this is going, no ? Players who were a threat replaced by players who offer nothing going forward.
Would be hard to criticize your last choice seeing as Aquaman hasn't played for you.Unless he replaces one of the replacements then his inclusion would be null and void.2 players can't replace 1 if 1 of them doesn't actually play.
You are saying Hamann and Alonso were replaced by Mascharano and Lucas so ?
That's actually possibly worse than what i conjured up from the time, no ?

Neither Lucas nor Aqualani are defensive midfielders.

Hamann however was, he just had a really really excellent shot, and was good from setpieces, I would certainly say he was a good footballer but at liverpool his main objective was to protect the back 4 and launch attacks forward, you have to remember aswell that Hamann wasn't around for too much of Rafa's reign and Murphy was around for none of it at all so I guess we're all wrong in that nobody replaced him as it was a change of system.

Anyway FU.

kryogen

Lucas plays a DM role

he is a defensive midfielder under Rafa, this is unquestionable to be fair

maybe he would prefer to be getting forward more, maybe he would be better in an advanced position

but Rafa deploys him defensively 90% of the time

mayordenis

kryogen wrote: »

Lucas plays a DM role

he is a defensive midfielder under Rafa, this is unquestionable to be fair

maybe he would prefer to be getting forward more, maybe he would be better in an advanced position

but Rafa deploys him defensively 90% of the time

OH! So now your going to through where he's played in my face.

Un****ingbelievable.

SlickRic

should've known we'd be talking about Lucas.

kryogen

mayordenis wrote: »

OH! So now your going to through where he's played in my face.

Un****ingbelievable.

im sorry man

i just had to do it

no hard feelings?

kryogen

SlickRic wrote: »

should've known we'd be talking about Lucas.

TBF he is the POTY for ye so far this season

maybe Reina rivals him, but the beast that is Lucas deserves special attention on every thread imo

d22ontour

mayordenis wrote: »

Neither Lucas nor Aqualani are defensive midfielders.

Lucas is actually an AM ? Wow he sure has surprised us all so....

mayordenis wrote: »

Hamann however was, he just had a really really excellent shot, and was good from setpieces, I would certainly say he was a good footballer but at liverpool his main objective was to protect the back 4 and launch attacks forward,

Hamann was quality, won yis a CL when stevie G wasn't up to much ya know .

mayordenis wrote: »

you have to remember aswell that Hamann wasn't around for too much of Rafa's reign and Murphy was around for none of it at all so I guess we're all wrong in that nobody replaced him as it was a change of system.

So nobody knows who Alonso actually replaced, eh ?

mayordenis wrote: »

Anyway FU.

This i like but without the pic....



It's not as funny.

mayordenis

d22ontour wrote: »

So nobody knows who Alonso actually replaced, eh ?

Biscan.

Biscan stayed one season to help tutor him and allow the noob to settle in then Biscan went on his merry way.

Mr Alan

do people actually not realise that not all midfielders have to be defensive or attacking. they can just be central midfielders too.

kryogen

'I knew Liverpool would struggle' says FergusonBy Ian Herbert




Sir Alex Ferguson has suggested ahead of Liverpool's visit to Old Trafford tomorrow that Rafael Benitez's side over-performed last season and never looked likely to repeat their achievements, including a 4-1 victory at Manchester United, that saw them briefly threaten to sneak the title.


Ferguson was responding to the suggestion when it was put to him, rather than driving his own attack on Liverpool; but the United manager first said on the club's pre-season tour of South Africa last summer that Benitez's side would struggle to match last season's 86-point haul – which would possibly be enough to win the League this season – and he clearly feels vindicated by a dismal season for last year's runners-up.

"I thought it was an exceptional season [for them] and I thought it would be difficult to achieve that again. That was just my opinion," said Ferguson, who believes there will be no repeat of the humiliating defeat Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard inflicted on his team at Old Trafford a year ago last week.


The levels of personal animosity Ferguson is willing to convey publicly towards Benitez have dipped since last March, when at the corresponding Friday press conference the United manager suggested that a knowledge of Freud would be needed to read the tortured mind of the Spaniard, who had made his legendary "facts" speech against Ferguson earlier that year.

But the raw indignation Ferguson feels about the Football Association's decision not to ban Gerrard for an apparent use of an elbow on Portsmouth's Michael Brown last Monday night, while Rio Ferdinand was banned for four games for an offence which looked no worse, led Ferguson to suggest that Liverpool are also the side who get the breaks in encounters between these two most inveterate of rivals. "Yes we know [they get the breaks]," Ferguson reflected. "They do all right. They are lucky like that. Maybe one day we will get lucky."

Nemanja Vidic's extraordinary record of three dismissals in consecutive games against Liverpool has reinforced Ferguson's sense of injustice. "The two [sendings off] at Anfield were definitely influenced by the crowd and the Liverpool players," Ferguson said. "I have looked at them again. The last one at Anfield was two yellow cards. I don't think they were right. Last year he brought down Gerrard on the edge of the box. But I don't think it will affect him. With [Rio] Ferdinand and Vidic coming back you can see a much greater presence at the back now."

Ferguson reserved most of his ire for the FA, an organisation he described as "dysfunctional" for the Gerrard decision. Ridiculing the inflated cost and inconsistent outcome, as he sees it, of reviewing such incidents, he accused the FA of anti-United prejudice: "If it was a Manchester United player he would have been done, as was the case with Rio Ferdinand."

Ferguson wants to see a body of four out-of-work managers sitting to consider such incidents every Sunday, under the aegis of the League Managers' Association. "There are about 20 redundant managers around who have had a good experience of the game, have good knowledge, have played the game," he said. "They could get involved. It would save a fortune because God knows what it costs them down there in London. "

In the FA's defence, the disciplinary system prevents their intervening if a referee – in Monday's case Stuart Attwell – has seen an offence and made an instant decision. It is not the FA's fault that Attwell called the incident incorrectly. Though the allegation of prejudice might be deemed worthy of investigation in itself by the FA, there are no plans to ask Ferguson to explain his comments.

One individual who seems to have some explaining to do is United's Owen Hargreaves who, after returning to competitive action after 18 months out, said that he has not given up on his World Cup aspirations. This did not please his manager, either. "I think we deserve some service. Right? He needs to get his service in," Ferguson said. "Talking about World Cups ... there is nothing wrong with talking about it. But he should be concentrating on United. And he will do that."




just to spice it up a bit

(and get off the subject of Lucas)

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

do people actually not realise that not all midfielders have to be defensive or attacking. they can just be central midfielders too.

yes and some central midfielders get told to focus mostly on the defensive part of the game

starbelgrade

kryogen wrote: »

'I knew Liverpool would struggle' says FergusonBy Ian Herbert

Classic stuff - he'll have Rafa scribbling like mad in his little notebooks.. "I hate you Mr. Ferguson, I hate you Mr. Ferguson, I hate you Mr. Ferguson (etc)".

IvySlayer

kryogen wrote: »

'I knew Liverpool would struggle' says FergusonBy Ian Herbert

Good old Ferguson, he can actually play mind games properly.

d22ontour

Mr Alan wrote: »

do people actually not realise that not all midfielders have to be defensive or attacking. they can just be central midfielders too.

That works when they are bought to play in systems, when you say they are bought to replace payers is when it gets kinda confusing ? You said Alonso was brought in to replace Murphy, no ?You are kinda counter arguing your own point, no ?

K-9

Fergie: We should be so lucky | BreakingNews.ie

Rafa keeping very quite and dignified.

Can't believe it, but methinks SAF is under more pressure for this match.

Mr Alan

oh alex

d22ontour

kryogen wrote: »

'I knew Liverpool would struggle' says FergusonBy Ian Herbert




Sir Alex Ferguson has suggested ahead of Liverpool's visit to Old Trafford tomorrow that Rafael Benitez's side over-performed last season and never looked likely to repeat their achievements, including a 4-1 victory at Manchester United, that saw them briefly threaten to sneak the title.


Ferguson was responding to the suggestion when it was put to him, rather than driving his own attack on Liverpool; but the United manager first said on the club's pre-season tour of South Africa last summer that Benitez's side would struggle to match last season's 86-point haul – which would possibly be enough to win the League this season – and he clearly feels vindicated by a dismal season for last year's runners-up.

"I thought it was an exceptional season [for them] and I thought it would be difficult to achieve that again. That was just my opinion," said Ferguson, who believes there will be no repeat of the humiliating defeat Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard inflicted on his team at Old Trafford a year ago last week.


The levels of personal animosity Ferguson is willing to convey publicly towards Benitez have dipped since last March, when at the corresponding Friday press conference the United manager suggested that a knowledge of Freud would be needed to read the tortured mind of the Spaniard, who had made his legendary "facts" speech against Ferguson earlier that year.

But the raw indignation Ferguson feels about the Football Association's decision not to ban Gerrard for an apparent use of an elbow on Portsmouth's Michael Brown last Monday night, while Rio Ferdinand was banned for four games for an offence which looked no worse, led Ferguson to suggest that Liverpool are also the side who get the breaks in encounters between these two most inveterate of rivals. "Yes we know [they get the breaks]," Ferguson reflected. "They do all right. They are lucky like that. Maybe one day we will get lucky."

Nemanja Vidic's extraordinary record of three dismissals in consecutive games against Liverpool has reinforced Ferguson's sense of injustice. "The two [sendings off] at Anfield were definitely influenced by the crowd and the Liverpool players," Ferguson said. "I have looked at them again. The last one at Anfield was two yellow cards. I don't think they were right. Last year he brought down Gerrard on the edge of the box. But I don't think it will affect him. With [Rio] Ferdinand and Vidic coming back you can see a much greater presence at the back now."

Ferguson reserved most of his ire for the FA, an organisation he described as "dysfunctional" for the Gerrard decision. Ridiculing the inflated cost and inconsistent outcome, as he sees it, of reviewing such incidents, he accused the FA of anti-United prejudice: "If it was a Manchester United player he would have been done, as was the case with Rio Ferdinand."

Ferguson wants to see a body of four out-of-work managers sitting to consider such incidents every Sunday, under the aegis of the League Managers' Association. "There are about 20 redundant managers around who have had a good experience of the game, have good knowledge, have played the game," he said. "They could get involved. It would save a fortune because God knows what it costs them down there in London. "

In the FA's defence, the disciplinary system prevents their intervening if a referee – in Monday's case Stuart Attwell – has seen an offence and made an instant decision. It is not the FA's fault that Attwell called the incident incorrectly. Though the allegation of prejudice might be deemed worthy of investigation in itself by the FA, there are no plans to ask Ferguson to explain his comments.

One individual who seems to have some explaining to do is United's Owen Hargreaves who, after returning to competitive action after 18 months out, said that he has not given up on his World Cup aspirations. This did not please his manager, either. "I think we deserve some service. Right? He needs to get his service in," Ferguson said. "Talking about World Cups ... there is nothing wrong with talking about it. But he should be concentrating on United. And he will do that."




just to spice it up a bit

(and get off the subject of Lucas)

I wanna bite.It is regarded that Liverpool in claiming their biggest points tally in the Premier League and achieving more points against the other normal challengers actually over-achieved considering their per usual awful performances against relegation type teams ???Liverpool are still getting the same rubbish results against the so called lower teams , no ?Am gonna give Rafa a tactic that wins us stuff.Beat every lower placed team home and away and perform in at least half of the big four games too.Now if GH could just give him 200m to turn them into challengers lol

kryogen

K-9 wrote: »

Fergie: We should be so lucky | BreakingNews.ie

Rafa keeping very quite and dignified.

Can't believe it, but methinks SAF is under more pressure for this match.

already mentioned about 4 posts up!

K-9

kryogen wrote: »

already mentioned about 4 posts up!

Indeed, SAF seems rattled! Rafa must be p*ssing himself laughing.

I suppose if United win, he'll be king of the mind games.

If they lose, he'll still be king of the mind games!

Though Pool fans will have a titter!

kryogen

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, SAF seems rattled! Rafa must be p*ssing himself laughing.

I suppose if United win, he'll be king of the mind games.

If they lose, he'll still be king of the mind games!

Though Pool fans will have a titter!

you got rattled from that?

interesting i guess

Sir Gallagher

Mind games... Do grown ups actually buy into this sh!te? A completely ridiculous, overblown and pathetic part of today's game imo.

Spud83

I

K-9 wrote: »

Fergie: We should be so lucky | BreakingNews.ie

Rafa keeping very quite and dignified.

Can't believe it, but methinks SAF is under more pressure for this match.

Shocking that. Considering fergie is going for his.fourth title in a row yet Rafa is scrapping for fourth place to keep his job . A fourth place he guaranteed by the way. Yeah fergie is definitely under more pressure even though if we win all our games we take the league yet Rafa is praying for what one, two or three teams to drop points to achieve his goal. Yeah fergie is under more pressure alright even though his place in history is already confirmed as one of if not the best manager in history, while rafa is struggling to avoid being another footnote in liverpools failure to challenge united in 20 years.

v3ttel

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, SAF seems rattled!

What makes you think this?

jesus_thats_gre

timetogetfit wrote: »

This is how I think united will line up

VDS

Neville rio vidic evra


flecther scholes park

Valencia or Nani Giggs

Rooney

There is an awful lot of space between the midfield and defence. I would expect Gerrard and Torres to exploit that