False No Usage Limit Claims With UPC

DaveyDave

UPC have on their website "no usage limit" and there's no * next to it and under "Conditions" they clearly state "there is no monthly usage cap for Fibre Power Broadband 15Mb or 30Mb"

Now, the past 5 months or so they've been hassling my mam about going over a so called 250GB monthly cap and have been charging double the cost each month, without warning, because of this.

Despite paying the extra fee, we're still capped at 250GB. Just to point out, there is NO mention of the 250GB cap on their website, and there is no mention of an €80 or so cost.

You'd think that after paying the extra money they would let us download 250GB+? It counts for upload too which doesn't help when uploading HD movies to YouTube, 320kbps DJ mixes, photos etc. It all ads up fast.

Just for reference, on their misleadingly titled 30Mb Fiber Power which is cable and not fiber optic, it is possible to download and upload over 10TB of data in a month. So we're essentially paying for 2.5% of the service.

I'm not an expert in law or anything, but if I remember correctly, under the Consumer Protection Act of 2007, isn't it an offence for UPC to make false claims about services?

Maybe someone can shed some light on this as I'm a heavy data user and I find it ridiculous how they can blatantly state that there is not a cap when there quite clearly is.

bk

I don't think it is illegal, the small print in the contract says that there is a fair usage policy and if you use too much they can disconnect you or move you up to the more expensive product.

Almost every Irish ISP has something like this, I think Magnet are the only one left who don't enforce some sort of cap or usage policy.

250GB is one of the most generous caps amongst Irish ISP, but I agree it is still far too low and ridiculous that it is only 2.5% of your potential download speed.

BTW I believe if you are on the €80 product, that you can use as much as you like, but you have to continue having it every month then.

paulm17781

bk wrote: »

I don't think it is illegal, the small print in the contract says that there is a fair usage policy

I's be curious if these have any place in law. All over the site it says unlimited then references "a fair usage policy" has anyone challenged this yet?

DaveyDave

I filed a complaint to the National Consumer Agency back in January but haven't heard back from them and don't expect to. It seems there's no winning in this battle for some reason. It's ridiculous.

dub45

You should contact Comreg about this and make a formal complaint. It is disgraceful that UPC can blast this ''unlimited'' thing all over their site without any qualification whatsoever and it is completely in conflict with Comreg's published policy on this:

Information about Fair Usage
A number of telephone and broadband packages being offered are described as ‘unlimited’. In this context the word ‘unlimited’ would normally be taken to mean that a subscriber, having agreed to pay a set price, may make as many calls or spend as much time online as he or she wishes. However, some service contracts qualify the meaning of ‘unlimited’ by stating that it is subject to an ‘acceptable’ or ‘fair’ level of use by the subscriber. This is referred to as a “fair usage policy” in some advertising.

ComReg would like to advise consumers that any provision of a contract which sets usage thresholds, or describes what constitutes ‘fair’ or ‘acceptable’ use, should be clear and unambiguous, particularly where the service is described as being ‘unlimited’.

Usage thresholds or limits should be clearly set out, as should the manner in which they may be updated or amended.

ComReg expects each service provider to implement a clear, transparent and policy for dealing with customer usage above any set thresholds. The policy should set out the rules for contract termination, including penalties, the charges that shall apply for any use above the threshold/limit, and the policy regarding migration of the customer to other packages, if applicable.

ComReg advises consumers to carefully read the terms and conditions of their contracts and to be aware of the particular limits or thresholds that apply before purchasing.

The emphasis above is mine.


http://www.askcomreg.ie/business/accessing_the_internet.346.LE.asp#L1002

yomamasflavour

dub45 wrote: »

You should contact Comreg about this and make a formal complaint. It is disgraceful that UPC can blast this ''unlimited'' thing all over their site without any qualification whatsoever and it is completely in conflict with Comreg's published policy on this:



The emphasis above is mine.


http://www.askcomreg.ie/business/accessing_the_internet.346.LE.asp#L1002

In reality, everyone should.

I imagine they will only consider doing something if they recieve enough complaints.

bealtine

dub45 wrote: »

You should contact Comreg about this and make a formal complaint.

Comreg couldn't regulate themselves out of a wet paper bag...

paulm17781

bealtine wrote: »

Comreg couldn't regulate themselves out of a wet paper bag...

True but that's no reason not to use them. We (the Irish) are great about complaining to anyone who'll listen accept for the person that we should actually be complaining too.

zeris

DaveyDave wrote: »

Just for reference, on their misleadingly titled 30Mb Fiber Power which is cable and not fiber optic, it is possible to download and upload over 10TB of data in a month. So we're essentially paying for 2.5% of the service.

If you can buy 30Mbps of IP transit for the price you would pay UPC a month I would strongly suggest you sign up with that provider.

d22ontour

DaveyDave wrote: »

Now, the past 5 months or so they've been hassling my mam about going over a so called 250GB monthly cap and have been charging double the cost each month, without warning, because of this.

Wow double the cost for exceeding...

DaveyDave wrote: »

Despite paying the extra fee, we're still capped at 250GB. Just to point out, there is NO mention of the 250GB cap on their website, and there is no mention of an €80 or so cost.

Bk, you told me this was the best option ??? wtf ???

Jonathan

How do you manage to transfer over 8GB of data every single day?

slave1

do we need another thread on this?

vibe666

Jonathan wrote: »

How do you manage to transfer over 8GB of data every single day?

sounds like flame bait to me, he's already stated that in his first post.

DaveyDave wrote: »

You'd think that after paying the extra money they would let us download 250GB+? It counts for upload too which doesn't help when uploading HD movies to YouTube, 320kbps DJ mixes, photos etc. It all ads up fast.

and yes, its been done to death already and could probably do with being merged with the last thread.

Ranicand

I like fair play and the UPC broadband packages are great value in my opinion.

The limits are more then fair in my opinion.

Misleading people about usage limits in underhanded and this does UPC more damage then good shame on them.

I agree with usage limits people hogging all the bandwidth is not fair but hiding these limits is not fair.

As regards people asking what do people use this bandwidth for well it's none of their business.

UPC is the limit 250GB up and down combined? if yes just state it.:rolleyes:

bk

Ranicand wrote: »

The limits are more then fair in my opinion.

I disagree, 250GB is too low for a 30mb/s package.

Also why is it that in other countries, UPC really don't have any cap. Rip off Ireland again.

bealtine

Ranicand wrote: »

The limits are more then fair in my opinion.

I have to disagree with that, a couple of heavy sessions on youtube and suddenly you've used up your allowance. So with that in mind I don't think the limits are fair at all, especially as the package is advertised as "unlimited".

Jonathan

bealtine wrote: »

I have to disagree with that, a couple of heavy sessions on youtube and suddenly you've used up your allowance. So with that in mind I don't think the limits are fair at all, especially as the package is advertised as "unlimited".

A couple of heavy sessions? More like a week of watching solid 1080p h.264 youtube.


Take for example the 1080p version of this video.

3500kbps*1min = 25.63MB/min
25.63MB/min*60min = 1.537GB/hour
250GB/1.537GB/hour = 162.65hours
166.66hours/24hours = 6.77days

vibe666

Jonathan wrote: »

A couple of heavy sessions? More like a week of watching solid 1080p h.264 youtube.


Take for example the 1080p version of this video.

3500kbps*1min = 25.63MB/min
25.63MB/min*60min = 1.537GB/hour
250GB/1.537GB/hour = 162.65hours
166.66hours/24hours = 6.77days

thats fine if you assume that no data is uploaded at all and there is no other activity on the connection during that time.

on average in my household we download 100-150gb per month, but the uploaded data usually takes care of the rest.

thats an average of 5gb per day on a 30mbps connection that could (at full speed) provide me with that full 250gb of downloaded data in 24 hours, 50 times my actual average daily usage.

zeris

bk wrote: »

Also why is it that in other countries, UPC really don't have any cap. Rip off Ireland again.

I would imagine if you read the T&Cs it'll say "take the piss and we'll cut you off".

zeris

vibe666 wrote: »

thats an average of 5gb per day on a 30mbps connection that could (at full speed) provide me with that full 250gb of downloaded data in 24 hours, 50 times my actual average daily usage.

Caps exist because UPC cannot afford to have customers maxing their 30Mbps link 24/7.

zeris

bealtine wrote: »

I have to disagree with that, a couple of heavy sessions on youtube and suddenly you've used up your allowance. So with that in mind I don't think the limits are fair at all, especially as the package is advertised as "unlimited".

Which limits would you feel are fair or are you against any limit?

PogMoThoin

zeris wrote: »

Caps exist because UPC cannot afford to have customers maxing their 30Mbps link 24/7.

Fine, Well then don't market it as an Unlimited product when its not

enfant terrible

Why don't comreg force them to label it as a 250GB limit per month instead of unlimited.

zeris

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Fine, Well then don't market it as an Unlimited product when its not

But is that what the problem is? Given some of the comments in this very thread if it was sold as a product with 250Gb bandwidth cap people would still be complaining.

Cabaal

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why don't comreg force them to label it as a 250GB limit per month instead of unlimited.

cause comreg are effectively as powerful and scary as a puppy, that and I also believe the advertising side of things would also come under the ASAI

hightower1

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why don't comreg force them to label it as a 250GB limit per month instead of unlimited.

I'm sure UPC would be delighted to label it with a 250 cap if every ISP was also forced to state their caps because everyone here seems to forget that every single ISP in Ireland all say their product is unlimited but in fact does have a limit.... why would UPC contest a blanket ruling to show caps when they are beating the pants off all the other ISP's cap wise. It'd be just another way for them to show off their superior specs. :cool:

rh5555

wow, i cant believe we are talking about the 250gb limit again. Maybe i didn't get the memo but is this now a weekly thing where someone else 'suddenly' discovers that UPC actually has a limit on bandwidth. I guess its because they don't like to go bankrupt having people downloading terabytes of data every month if they were allowed to.

I can say that the advertising of unlimited is practiced in several countries, the U.S. and Germany amongst them.
I am not condoning the use of the word 'unlimited' for broadband when there is a cap and hopefully that will change eventually.
However, nobody should expect to be able to download terabytes because even though the cost for the provider is fairly small it does cost money and almost no provider can afford those heavy users unless they increase the price.

Oh well looking forward to next week when we will have yet another discussion of someone who suddenly discovers that UPC is not truly unlimited.

hightower1

rh5555 wrote: »

wow, i cant believe we are talking about the 250gb limit again. Maybe i didn't get the memo but is this now a weekly thing where someone else 'suddenly' discovers that UPC actually has a limit on bandwidth. I guess its because they don't like to go bankrupt having people downloading terabytes of data every month if they were allowed to.

I can say that the advertising of unlimited is practiced in several countries, the U.S. and Germany amongst them.
I am not condoning the use of the word 'unlimited' for broadband when there is a cap and hopefully that will change eventually.
However, nobody should expect to be able to download terabytes because even though the cost for the provider is fairly small it does cost money and almost no provider can afford those heavy users unless they increase the price.

Oh well looking forward to next week when we will have yet another discussion of someone who suddenly discovers that UPC is not truly unlimited.

We could get lucky and people might actually start reading what their signing for and stop being naive? :eek::D

dub45

hightower1 wrote: »

We could get lucky and people might actually start reading what their signing for and stop being naive? :eek::D

Or maybe when apparently otherwise intelligent people will stop condoning dishonest advertising and dishonesty on their website on the part of UPC?

Any company that advertises an unlimited product that has a cap is being dishonest. The fact that many companies do it or that it happens in other countries is totally irrelvant!!!! It is dishonest pure and simple.

We should be demanding that companies behaven honestly not condoning their dishonesty.

And perhaps someone might point out where on UPC's website they tell you that there is a cap of 250g on an unlimited product?:rolleyes:

vibe666

hightower1 wrote: »

We could get lucky and people might actually start reading what their signing for and stop being naive? :eek::D

or (equally unlikely) the regulator could grow a pair of balls and actually, er, you know, 'regulate' the industry to stop ISP's from advertising and selling something that very clearly isn't what they state it is and then try and hide behind their small print. :rolleyes:

un·lim·it·ed [uhn-lim-i-tid]

– adjective
1. not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2. boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3. without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

—Synonyms
1. unconstrained, unrestrained, unfettered.

seems to me that the dictionary is very clear about the definition of 'unlimited'. :rolleyes:

i don't think anyone here thinks for a minute that they should be allowed to use their connection flat out 24/7 with no restrictions at all, just that the people selling the product are honest about the limits of their products, rather than hiding behind small print and then penalising people for going over a limit they didn't think they had due to the mis-advertisement of the service they are paying for.

hightower1

Dub .... vibe... when ye start an ISP thats bettering UPC's network, for less than or the same price and has all the honesty in the world..... I'll be the first to sign. (I'll still read the small print but dont take it personally its just good common sense)