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Dog killing birds
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20-03-2010 2:22pm#1
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CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »Ive done a lot of courses in canines (animal grooming, canine studies, canine psychology etc.) and read many books. Killing wild animals has never been a major topic in any so I dont think its fair to accuse the OP of being uneducated in dog care.
You must have missed the bits in those books where dogs are classified as carnivores
Having said that, the hunting behaviour of dogs is controllable, especially so in your own back garden.
You have to be there though and watch your dog. Whenever your dog starts to display hunting behaviour (stalking, staring, following a scent), call it off and do something else with it instead. Play or do some small excercises ... something fun.
A dog that just hunts out of boredom will be easily persuaded to partake in other activities, one with a strong prey drive will need a stronger hand, close supervision and some patience ...but it can be done.
BTW...a good, regulated game of throw and fetch is a very good outlet for a strong prey drive.0 -
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CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »Ive owned many dogs all my life and i've never had one kill a bird. And we have lots of birds in our garden.
Ah, so by your experience no dogs hunt or kill birds. You are wrong if you think that.I would be shocked and upset if any of my dogs killed a bird. Not because i'd be surprised that its in a dogs nature, but because its sad to see any animal die, and sadder to know that it was caused by an animal I love.
This is why you should understand your dog, or any pet for that matter, so if something like this does happen, which is perfectly natural, you won't be so shocked. Not all dogs do it, but it's not uncommon. Same with cats hunting birds or rabbits. People are in disbelief that they do this, but it's their basic instinct.Ive done a lot of courses in canines (animal grooming, canine studies, canine psychology etc.) and read many books. Killing wild animals has never been a major topic in any so I dont think its fair to accuse the OP of being uneducated in dog care.
That's great, you got lots of knowledge on the animal you chose to keep as a pet, if only more done this. Thing is, some behavioural traits in pets won't be explained to you in these pet books, so you have to dig a little deeper, study the animal in it's natural habitat, which is in the wild. Then you will get a better understanding of the animal.OP I would agree with the suggestion to put a bell on the dog, and from your post im under the impression that it only began happening recently. Whats changed?
It's quite possible that this is the only case that the OP has witnessed and this has happened in the past. The bell on the collar is a good idea, there are other things you can do too, but remember this is a basic instinct, not something unnatural or odd.Is the dog getting less exercise, and therefore bored and just playing? More exercise should help if thats the case.
While tiring the dog out and channeling the energies into something benificial, I don't think this behaviour is for fun, I doubt the dog sees the birds as play things.
Does the dog leave the bird when it is dead or does it bring it to you OP?Have you recently begun feeding the dog outdoors? If so perhaps the dogs are getting cheeky and trying to get the dogs food. If so I'd suggest feeding the dog indoors.
A possibility but highly unlikely.You might want to calm down there old chap.
I am quite calm, thanks for your concern
We have had 4 dogs down through the years,
and not ONE of them ever attacked birds.
4 is not a very big number compared to the amount of dogs there are in the world. You would need a bigger sample in order to have a good idea. Also, this is only something you have witnessed, you have no idea what they do when you are not looking, or at the very least, less of an idea. I know we would all love to know what they do be up to when we are not watching, but we don't. They might be at nothing, or they might be catching birdsAnd you shouldnt have to read a friggin book to see wether dogs should kill birds, i bet you'll find very little on that topic in the main sellers out there.
You are right, you wouldn't find much about them killing anything, chickens, pheasants, lambs etc etc. Why would books cover that? That doesn't make for a good read, but this does happen. To deny outright that this does not happen is not good. Dogs kill birds, amoungst other things. It's sad but true.This has to be the biggest uncalled for drama i've ever witnessed on boards.ie!
A bit of an over statement to say the least.+1 to the last post - a dog killing birds IS a bit unusual
It's unusual for us to witness, definately, but it's not unusual behaviour.our one tends to chase them out of the garden alright, I think it's a territorial thing, could be the same thing with the OP's dog, so disciplining or a bell could be options ok. I don't know if the poster claiming that 'dogs kill wild animals' has ever owned a dog, obviously breeds like terriers were originally reared for hunting rats or flushing out foxes, and hounds were obviously bred for long range hunting of large animals but killing small birds? That's what cats do, and they're pretty good at it so not really a dog speciality.
I have owned a variety of animals If it is me who you are referring to.
Dogs are predatory in nature, and this is a natural behavior. Taming a dog will not remove this trait.Why do people on here so often have to attack other posters?
Often? It's not an attack, if it was it would have been worded completely different and I wouldn't be posting nowJust because the OP didn't know his dog would kill birds doesn't mean he shouldn't own a dog or should read every book under the sun about dogs! :rolleyes:
No, but at least have the courtesy and respect of the animal to do some research on it. Take a look at their habits, go further than the dog grooming books, study them in the wild, see what they do. You don't have to know every single thing, but in my opinion, this would be something I would want to know. Some may not care, that's understandable.Mr Hat my friend's dog does the same and they've tried everything, even a dog trainer! No luck, he still does it but he's grown out of it a bit so at least it's not as regular as it used to be. I'm not sure there's much you can do, if he wants to do it he will. Just like cats do, it's in their nature.
Yay
At least we agree on one thing
Bell seems to be the best thing to do, if you can put up with the noise that is
It gets to me when people purchase or take ownership of an animal and they don't know much about it. In some cases that's fine, taking care of an animal instead of putting it to sleep. I see people getting dogs, cats, fish, birds etc etc and not having a clue about them, they don't know how to treat them right and when they do natural things the owners freak out completely. Why would you get an animal you know very little about? I don't understand that at all.0 -
thats clearly not what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure the other posters here understand what I said. In my experience, I've never seen any of my dogs kill a bird (nor have I seen evidence of it happening... feathers, dead bird, etc.).Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »Ah, so by your experience no dogs hunt or kill birds. You are wrong if you think that.
I understand my dog.Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »This is why you should understand your dog, or any pet for that matter, so if something like this does happen, which is perfectly natural, you won't be so shocked. Not all dogs do it, but it's not uncommon. Same with cats hunting birds or rabbits. People are in disbelief that they do this, but it's their basic instinct.
I also have an honours degree in Zoology from UCC, so I understand animals, predation, circle of life, and so on.
Im not shocked that animals kill animals, but, again, i would be shocked if my dogs killed an animal. Tthe instinct for preditory drift is not high in many dogs. My dogs in the past havent even blinked an eye at our rabbits, guinea pigs, budgies, and wild birds.Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »That's great, you got lots of knowledge on the animal you chose to keep as a pet, if only more done this. Thing is, some behavioural traits in pets won't be explained to you in these pet books, so you have to dig a little deeper, study the animal in it's natural habitat, which is in the wild. Then you will get a better understanding of the animal.
Then why did you tell the OP to "I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs" you've just admitted that "some behavioural traits in pets wont be explained in these books" so you've just contradicted yourself
!
Many dog owners do a lot of research before getting a dog, but in my opinion, the chances of their dog killing another animal is very rare so its not a topic that they are likely to research!Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »It's quite possible that this is the only case that the OP has witnessed and this has happened in the past.
Chances are they would have found evidence of this.Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »4 is not a very big number compared to the amount of dogs there are in the world. You would need a bigger sample in order to have a good idea. Also, this is only something you have witnessed, you have no idea what they do when you are not looking, or at the very least, less of an idea. I know we would all love to know what they do be up to when we are not watching, but we don't. They might be at nothing, or they might be catching birds
I've owned 6 dogs through my live, variety of breeds/cross breeds, none have ever killed an animal. Might be interesting to do a survey here. See how many dog owners here have had their dog kill an animal, and which breed it was.
I have also worked full-time as a dog walker over the last three years. The dog owners like to report back to me with any events and behavioural changes in the dog (good and bad) no word of any of them killing an animal yet!
I dont think anyone is denying that it happens, but what people are arguing is that it is rare and it is unlikely to be a major factor in your training of your dog.Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »You are right, you wouldn't find much about them killing anything, chickens, pheasants, lambs etc etc. Why would books cover that? That doesn't make for a good read, but this does happen. To deny outright that this does not happen is not good. Dogs kill birds, amoungst other things. It's sad but true.
I dont get why you think that our dogs are killing birds without us knowing. Are you suggesting they eat the bird whole?Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »It's unusual for us to witness, definately, but it's not unusual behaviour.Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »It gets to me when people purchase or take ownership of an animal and they don't know much about it. Why would you get an animal you know very little about? I don't understand that at all.
The OP doesnt own the dog. She said its her son so to tell her to go read some books is unfair, she's better coming straight on boards (as she did) where she can describe the situation and get some advice!!0 -
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CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »thats clearly not what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure the other posters here understand what I said. In my experience, I've never seen any of my dogs kill a bird (nor have I seen evidence of it happening... feathers, dead bird, etc.).
I understand my dog.
I also have an honours degree in Zoology from UCC, so I understand animals, predation, circle of life, and so on.
Im not shocked that animals kill animals, but, again, i would be shocked if my dogs killed an animal. Tthe instinct for preditory drift is not high in many dogs. My dogs in the past havent even blinked an eye at our rabbits, guinea pigs, budgies, and wild birds.
Then why did you tell the OP to "I mean seriously, go read a few books on dogs" you've just admitted that "some behavioural traits in pets wont be explained in these books" so you've just contradicted yourself !
Many dog owners do a lot of research before getting a dog, but in my opinion, the chances of their dog killing another animal is very rare so its not a topic that they are likely to research!
Chances are they would have found evidence of this.
I've owned 6 dogs through my live, variety of breeds/cross breeds, none have ever killed an animal. Might be interesting to do a survey here. See how many dog owners here have had their dog kill an animal, and which breed it was.
I have also worked full-time as a dog walker over the last three years. The dog owners like to report back to me with any events and behavioural changes in the dog (good and bad) no word of any of them killing an animal yet!
I dont think anyone is denying that it happens, but what people are arguing is that it is rare and it is unlikely to be a major factor in your training of your dog.
I dont get why you think that our dogs are killing birds without us knowing. Are you suggesting they eat the bird whole?
The OP doesnt own the dog. She said its her son so to tell her to go read some books is unfair, she's better coming straight on boards (as she did) where she can describe the situation and get some advice!!
Lets not argue about trivial things. What I said was a metaphor. You know some books are great for certain things, but they will exclude the gritty details of some animals. You will have to look at other mediums to find this out.
There are also other factors involved, such as where you live. I don't live in a city, I live in a town, before that I lived in the sticks and before that I lived in a city. They are different habitats, with different types of wildlife and behaviours. While a dog in a city might be scavaging in bins, dogs in the countryside may be chasing rabbits, sheep and birds.
From my experience I have witnessed first hand dogs doing some serious damage to wildstock. Two lovely springers got into a pheasant pen and killed them all, a pack of dogs killing lambs, my own dog killing blackbirds and other birds, he brings them back to us quite a lot, leaves them on the door step for us. It's cute. I have other dogs that didn't hunt birds, but they did hunt rabbits. The dog I have now doesn't go near our avary, or our rabbits. Dogs also bury food. This is another instinct so it is possible that you may not witness your dog killing any animal, in a lot of cases this would be impossible, but in my case it would not as we have a lot of land surrounding us.
I didn't go to college to study wildlife, I got the knowledge I have now from my father, who got it from his fater and so on. From a young age we were exposed to the wonders and cruelties of nature. Best education I recieved as a child.0 -
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I think this is lovely.Maximilian Fast Gurney wrote: »From a young age we were exposed to the wonders and cruelties of nature. Best education I recieved as a child. I grew up in the country and I think that I can actually pick one specific moment in time where I "grew up" thanks to the cruelty of nature. There is a lot to be said for listening to older and wiser people and just watching how the world works. Sometimes nature can be incredibly cruel. But the wonders more than make up for it.
I have a cat who now can only be let out in the middle of the day. She's a super huntress. I only ever got one bird but the mice show up all the time. She is so small and sweet and delicate looking in the house. Her brother is a big tom who looks like a real alley cat but is the biggest scardy cat going. I left a full chicken carcass down for them once. She, the delicate little flower that she is, dived on the carcass and buried her head in it like some sort of feeding frenzy. He sat beside it, licking it. :rolleyes:To see her inside you would never think that she turns into a killer once on the lose.
It can be easy to forget at times that your pet is an animal, they become a part of your family.0 -
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