Using full licence(automatic) as provisional(to learn manual)

djt0607

Hi,

I have a full license allowing me to drive vehicles with automatic transmissions. I am interested in learning to drive vehicles with a manual trasnmission.

I am wondering if I can use my existing full driving license (restricted to automatic transmissions) as a provisional license for learning to drive a manual or would I have to re-apply for a provisional license to drive a manual?

Cheers

DJT

Midnight_EG

Start at the bottom buddy, learner permit and work your way up.

djt0607

that doesn't exactly answer my question - a simple 'yes' or 'no' would have sufficed; but thanks for the reply non-the-less.

Midnight_EG

Start at the bottom implies you need a learner permit.
Learner permit implies you have to apply for one and get it.
Then work your way up to full license in a manual car.

Sorry if I came across as vague, somehow.

djt0607

ah ok so.

It doesn't really surprise me anyways to be honest. It makes absolutely no sense and is purley another one of the Irish governments money making rackets. In England you can use a full license (automatic) as a provisional without any problems (which makes logical sense), which is why I thought it would be the same here.

Thanks again anyways for your replies.

bothyhead

Interesting question OP. It's an unusual case. If you wanted to upgrade to a C licence, you would need a separate provisional C licence. But in your case you don't want to change category, only get a less restricted version of it. Hmm, it's a tough call. Your best bet is to check with the appropriate authorities e.g. Citizens' information, 1890 777 121

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driver-licensing

p.s. this web site doesn't really answer your question either.

MagicMarker

djt0607 wrote: »

ah ok so.

It doesn't really surprise me anyways to be honest. It makes absolutely no sense and is purley another one of the Irish governments money making rackets. In England you can use a full license (automatic) as a provisional without any problems (which makes logical sense), which is why I thought it would be the same here.

Thanks again anyways for your replies.

Thems the rules. Besides, a monkey could drive an automatic. Driving a manual is completely different.

RonnieT

MagicMarker wrote: »

Besides, a monkey could drive an automatic. Driving a manual is completely different.

If someone has passed a test in an automatic, they have proven they know the rules of the road and how to drive upon them. Whether they are shifting gears or letting an autobox do the work, there's a lot more to being able to drive than simply working the transmission.

Hence the OP's question; I think holding a full automatic licence shows a level of ability far beyond a total beginner who may never have ventured onto a road in their life before. Unfortunately it seems that the law does not agree.

Nor does MagicMarker. But from comments like the above, he's at least proving a monkey can type :P

Midnight_EG

RonnieT wrote: »

If someone has passed a test in an automatic, they have proven they know the rules of the road and how to drive upon them. Whether they are shifting gears or letting an autobox do the work, there's a lot more to being able to drive than simply working the transmission.

Hence the OP's question; I think holding a full automatic licence shows a level of ability far beyond a total beginner who may never have ventured onto a road in their life before. Unfortunately it seems that the law does not agree.

Nor does MagicMarker. But from comments like the above, he's at least proving a monkey can type :P

A monkey might be able to drive an automatic, but that doesn't mean it knows how to clutch and shift.
Hence the rules about auto's and manuals.

MagicMarker

RonnieT wrote: »

If someone has passed a test in an automatic, they have proven they know the rules of the road and how to drive upon them. Whether they are shifting gears or letting an autobox do the work, there's a lot more to being able to drive than simply working the transmission.

Hence the OP's question; I think holding a full automatic licence shows a level of ability far beyond a total beginner who may never have ventured onto a road in their life before. Unfortunately it seems that the law does not agree.

Nor does MagicMarker. But from comments like the above, he's at least proving a monkey can type :P

There's more to driving than working the transmission, true. But there's also more to driving than knowing the rules of the road, by that logic we should just let anyone drive a car, seeing as most people have a good grasp of the rules of the road anyway.

IMO if everyone did a test in an automatic, then pass rates would be much higher, which speaks for itself.

corktina

all you have to do is learn clutch control to convert, Id try the Dept of transport or phone your local test centre OP...you wont get a definaitive answer on here I suspect.

Eoin

Moved to learning to drive forum.

MagicMarker wrote: »

IMO if everyone did a test in an automatic, then pass rates would be much higher, which speaks for itself.

I don't think you can infer much from that. Anyway, let's not turn this into another "You're not really driving a car in an automatic" thread.

jimmyw

AFAIK off the top of my head, if you pass a test in an automatic you are only covered to drive that and not a manual. So you will probably have to start from scratch.If you pass in a manual, you are covered for both.



I think;)

**Timbuk2**

Unfortuneatly, you will have to start from scratch for a manual.

I never really thought about it before, but now that I do, it's not a great system. If you have already passed your test in an automatic, you have proven yourself to be a competent driver on the roads. To all those saying that pass rates would be higher if everybody drove an automatic, the most common faults on a driving test have nothing to do with the fact that the car is manual (e.g progress, reaction to hazards, clearance of stationery objects etc.)

lynski

wow as i may be in this situation if i dont pass my next test I am bewildered be the info on the websites - there is no mention i could find. will have to call the rsa and find out

Wishbone Ash

There is no ambiguity on the matter.

If you hold a full but restricted licence in any category and wish to do the test again in an unrestricted vehicle within that category, you are required to apply for another learner permit to enable you to legally utilise public roads.

erwinvr101

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

There is no ambiguity on the matter.

If you hold a full but restricted licence in any category and wish to do the test again in an unrestricted vehicle within that category, you are required to apply for another learner permit to enable you to legally utilise public roads.

is the learner permit for driving a manual different from an automatic? coz if there's no difference, the OP doesn't have to apply anymore for it but he has to drive accompanied by someone who has a full license. i could be wrong though. just my 2 cents...

Alanstrainor

erwinvr101 wrote: »

is the learner permit for driving a manual different from an automatic? coz if there's no difference, the OP doesn't have to apply anymore for it but he has to drive accompanied by someone who has a full license if he wants to drive a manual. i could be wrong though. just my 2 cents...

No it's not. The restriction is only added upon completing the full driving test in an automatic transmission.

erwinvr101

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No it's not. The restriction is only added upon completing the full driving test in an automatic transmission.

so he doesn't have to apply for a learner permit anymore, right?

Alanstrainor

erwinvr101 wrote: »

so he doesn't have to apply for a learner permit anymore, right?

As was already mentioned on this thread. If the OP wishes to drive a manual transmission they must apply for a Learner Permit. A full restricted license is not the same as a learner permit in this case.

erwinvr101

Alanstrainor wrote: »

As was already mentioned on this thread. If the OP wishes to drive a manual transmission they must apply for a Learner Permit. A full restricted license is not the same as a learner permit in this case.

but the OP already had his learner permit before which was converted to his automatic drivers license when he did the test, it doesn't make sense to get another one as is the case in the UK (according to the OP). ah well...

Permabear

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erwinvr101

donegalfella wrote: »

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then why is it legal in England to have the license for automatic (according to the OP) to be used as a means to learn to drive a manual and also doesn't require a driver to apply a learner permit anymore? i know what you're saying about having to go back again with all the L plates and accompanying full license driver. it's just that it doesn't make sense to apply for a learner permit again since there's no difference between a learner permit for an automatic and a manual and that the OP already had acquired it before.

Permabear

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Midnight_EG

erwinvr101 wrote: »

then why is it legal in England to have the license for automatic (according to the OP) to be used as a means to learn to drive a manual and also doesn't require a driver to apply a learner permit anymore? i know what you're saying about having to go back again with all the L plates and accompanying full license driver. it's just that it doesn't make sense to apply for a learner permit again since there's no difference between a learner permit for an automatic and a manual and that the OP already had acquired it before.

This is not England!

erwinvr101

Midnight_EG wrote: »

This is not England!

wow! i know that! at least they see logic about this matter

erwinvr101

donegalfella wrote: »

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i can clearly understand this if the learner permit for an automatic is different from a manual. it's not really logical. so how is he going to get a learner permit? by passing a theory test again? convenient...

dearg lady

erwinvr101 wrote: »

i can clearly understand this if the learner permit for an automatic is different from a manual. it's not really logical. so how is he going to get a learner permit? by passing a theory test again? convenient...

If he has passed a theory test in the last 5 years, this will still be fine, OP can just apply for a provisional licence with the form, pics and fee, btw, you also need to send in your current full licence with the application.

erwinvr101

dearg lady wrote: »

If he has passed a theory test in the last 5 years, this will still be fine, OP can just apply for a provisional licence with the form, pics and fee, btw, you also need to send in your current full licence with the application.

see, this is what's funny about this. he/she has to go back to the learner license that he had before. why can't the OP just use the automatic license, put L plates on the car and have an accompanying full license driver with him just like any other learning drivers out there? again, there is no distinction between the learner permit for an auto and a manual

dearg lady

erwinvr101 wrote: »

see, this is what's funny about this. he/she has to go back to the learner license that he had before. why can't the OP just use the automatic license, put L plates on the car and have an accompanying full license driver with him just like any other learning drivers out there? again, there is no distinction between the learner permit for an auto and a manual

not to be smart, but, cos it's the law. There's a ton of stupid laws in this country.

I dunno, maybe they like to keep track of number of provisionals or something.

erwinvr101

dearg lady wrote: »

not to be smart, but, cos it's the law. There's a ton of stupid laws in this country.

I dunno, maybe they like to keep track of number of provisionals or something.

i know. i'm just trying to state my opinion.

dearg lady

erwinvr101 wrote: »

i know. i'm just trying to state my opinion.

fair enough, but don't think anyone on here is gonna be able to answer your question past what I said.
It seems to kinda make sense to me, the person is in fact a learner, better than a complete beginner, but a learner nonetheless. Sending in the full licence is partly just to make sure the person isn't mistakenly issued another driver number.

erwinvr101

dearg lady wrote: »

If he has passed a theory test in the last 5 years, this will still be fine, OP can just apply for a provisional licence with the form, pics and fee, btw, you also need to send in your current full licence with the application.

i think you're talking about the learner permit here and not the theory test cert which is only effective for two years in that the learner should apply for a permit within that period of time. so in essence, the OP should sit a theory test again and pass it to get a learner permit which is exactly the point i'm trying to make

dearg lady

erwinvr101 wrote: »

i think you're talking about the learner permit here and not the theory test cert which is only effective for two years in that the learner should apply for a permit within that period of time. so in essence, the OP should sit a theory test again and pass it to get a learner permit which is exactly the point i'm trying to make

sorry yes, 2 years, not 5 years, but the point remains the same.

erwinvr101

dearg lady wrote: »

sorry yes, 2 years, not 5 years, but the point remains the same.

and all i'm trying to point out is that the automatic license be allowed to use or be recognised if a driver is trying to learn to drive in a manual car but also he has to follow what any other learners do by puting L plates up and being accompanied by a full license driver when driving, coz he already had the learner permit before and it's a lot of an inconvenience if he has to get one again

dearg lady

erwinvr101 wrote: »

and all i'm trying to point out is that the automatic license be allowed to use or be recognised if a driver is trying to learn to drive in a manual car but also he has to follow what any other learners do by puting L plates up and being accompanied by a full license driver when driving, coz he already had the learner permit before and it's a lot of an inconvenience if he has to get one again

I'm not entirely sure why this bothers you so much, but perhaps you should lobby for changes in this area?

Permabear

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Permabear

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erwinvr101

dearg lady wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure why this bothers you so much, but perhaps you should lobby for changes in this area?

i'm bothered by the principle, and seeing as the English people have put logic into this matter but hey! this is ireland. this does not affect me as i hold a full license

jimmyw

Well I am guessing that since you can drive an automatic having passed a test with a manual, driving an auto must be regarded as easier than driving a manual. So as was stated earlier, the best thing to do is to do a test with a manual so that one can drive both. Why cant you just keep driving an auto OP and you wont need to do any of this hassle, or do you need to drive a manual specifically for something?

Wishbone Ash

erwinvr101 wrote: »

and all i'm trying to point out is that the automatic license be allowed to use or be recognised if a driver is trying to learn to drive in a manual car but also he has to follow what any other learners do by puting L plates up and being accompanied by a full license driver when driving, coz he already had the learner permit before and it's a lot of an inconvenience if he has to get one again

I'm open to correction but if the Learner Permit is still valid from it's original issue date then they will issue it again for the period remaining without charge. If it is long past it's sell by date then there shouldn't be a huge problem as another Permit can be issued for up to 5 years after the last date on the previous. If more than 5 years have passed, it could hardly be described a huge inconvienence to start again. If it is a huge issue, why not stick with autos.

enwinvr101 wrote:

then why is it legal in England to have the license for automatic (according to the OP) to be used as a means to learn to drive a manual and also doesn't require a driver to apply a learner permit anymore?

People like to refer to select UK rules when it suits them. Many of the UK laws are stricter and enforced more that here. Would people prefer that we adopt all of theirs?

If a driver were permitted to use a restricted Driving licence as a Learner Permit, it could be open to abuse. What is there to stop a person from putting up L plates and being accompanied but never having any intention of doing a test. They could simply apply for another licence every 10 years without a test. You have to remember that a learner Permit is not a Driving Licence. It is only issued to allow a person to access public roads for the purpose of learning to drive. How could it be proven that a person using a restricted 78 Licence was actually learning to drive and not avoiding doing a test. At least with the Learner permit, one has to have sat a test or applied for one to continue.

erwinvr101

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm open to correction but if the Learner Permit is still valid from it's original issue date then they will issue it again for the period remaining without charge. If it is long past it's sell by date then there shouldn't be a huge problem as another Permit can be issued for up to 5 years after the last date on the previous. If more than 5 years have passed, it could hardly be described a huge inconvienence to start again. If it is a huge issue, why not stick with autos.

i don't understand this, the OP or anyone for that matter have already submitted the learner permit in exchange for the automatic license so how can he/she ask for another one? can they just submit their license back in exchange for the permit? thing is, if the permit is long past its date people may need to do the theory test again which is one of the inconveniences i'm talking about. it's not like these people have stopped driving and become new to the rules of the road. about the OP wanting to learn a manual, well, automatic cars are really boring to drive and driving with a stick breaks the monotomy.

People like to refer to select UK rules when it suits them. Many of the UK laws are stricter and enforced more that here. Would people prefer that we adopt all of theirs?

If a driver were permitted to use a restricted Driving licence as a Learner Permit, it could be open to abuse. What is there to stop a person from putting up L plates and being accompanied but never having any intention of doing a test. They could simply apply for another licence every 10 years without a test. You have to remember that a learner Permit is not a Driving Licence. It is only issued to allow a person to access public roads for the purpose of learning to drive. How could it be proven that a person using a restricted 78 Licence was actually learning to drive and not avoiding doing a test. At least with the Learner permit, one has to have sat a test or applied for one to continue.

you know it's already hard to find someone who would put their time and effort just to accompany someone who wants to learn to drive to do the test. how much more for the one's who have no intention to? there are also other reasons why people would not abuse their license such as cost of insurances, freedom from actually driving a manual alone, etc. and for someone with a license to put L plates again has got to mean something

by the way, i know what you and the other's are saying and you are right here. i'm just questioning the logic of the rules or law about this thing :P. actually, i don't know if this is actually the case in UK. i'm just taking the word of the OP.

Faith+1

I know you can exchange your full Irish license for any EU countries. My point is could you simply exchange your automatic license for an EU country that doesn't differ between Auto/Manual and then simply exchange it back for an Irish one????

Wishbone Ash

erwinvr101 wrote:

i don't understand this, the OP or anyone for that matter have already submitted the learner permit in exchange for the automatic license so how can he/she ask for another one? can they just submit their license back in exchange for the permit?

I can't see why it can't be reissued. It happens all the time in situations where people hold a Learner Permit in several categories. Suppose you have a LP in categories A1, B, M and W and you pass a category B test. You can they apply for a category B Driving licence and your learner permit will be reissued with the remaining categories in it. If you Driving Licence is restricted, you can request to have the B Learner Permit added again to enable you to drive category B unrestricted vehicles.

erwinvr101 wrote:

thing is, if the permit is long past its date people may need to do the theory test again which is one of the inconveniences i'm talking about. it's not like these people have stopped driving and become new to the rules of the road

If you take a bus driver who has trainer with Bus Eireann/Dublin Bus. They only operate automatic buses. Suppose a driver with 30 years experience wishes to seek employment with a private operator who used manual buses. The driver will have to go back and do the theory test and apply for a Learner Permit even though he will have years of experience and miles clocked up.

erwinvr101 wrote:

you know it's already hard to find someone who would put their time and effort just to accompany someone who wants to learn to drive to do the test. how much more for the one's who have no intention to? there are also other reasons why people would not abuse their license such as cost of insurances, freedom from actually driving a manual alone, etc. and for someone with a license to put L plates again has got to mean something

I know what you are saying but the law has to cover as many possibilities as it can. It is entirely possible that there are people out there who do not drive much but will be able to find a fully licenced driver with them when they go out.

Take an older couple for instance. Husband has many years left in his licence but doesn't feel confident to drive anymore. Wife has an auto licence but drives their manual car with L plates. They go everywhere together - shopping, church, visiting etc. If she didn't need a Learner Permit, wife could keep doing this for years.

erwinvr101 wrote:

i don't know if this is actually the case in UK. i'm just taking the word of the OP.[/B]

I meant to make that point last night. I somehow doubt that it is the case in the UK but I haven't time to check it out. As with so many myths relating to driving and learning to drive, perhaps he heard a man in a pub saying it!

Faith+1 wrote: »

I know you can exchange your full Irish license for any EU countries. My point is could you simply exchange your automatic license for an EU country that doesn't differ between Auto/Manual and then simply exchange it back for an Irish one????

Do we allow exchange of licences from European countries who don't differ between manual and auto? I know that we don't recognise US licences for that reason.

erwinvr101

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Take an older couple for instance. Husband has many years left in his licence but doesn't feel confident to drive anymore. Wife has an auto licence but drives their manual car with L plates. They go everywhere together - shopping, church, visiting etc. If she didn't need a Learner Permit, wife could keep doing this for years.

i guess you can have another example as that one don't make much sense to me. see, the husband has no confidence driving their manual car yet it's the wife with an automatic license who will drive it for him. how she got the confidence to drive a manual or why she got the automatic license when they have a manual car i find it hard to get.

and as for someone who has an auto license but is displaying L plates and accompanied by someone with a full license is hardly doing abuse at all. specially that we know how driver with L plates are treated on the road. he/she would be just doing the way other learners are doing.

again, i'm just questioning the rule/law here for this matter. i've no problems with it TBH.

djt0607

WOW! I am astounded at the amount of replies my query got. I didn't expect even a quarter of the responses I received. Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on this issue.

I have rang the rsa and i can confirm that i do indeed need to start from scratch again. (i.e. take the theory test again and apply for a provisional license and so on..)

I respect everyone's thoughts and opinions on this matter, however, no matter who thinks that "thats the way it is and thats that" or "thats the law" or stuff like that; it basically boils down to one thing....money.<SNIP>

This type of system is not in place because its "the law"; it is in place because its another way of generating revenue by squeezing more money out of people.

If we think of it logically, we would do it like England where a person holding a full driving license (automatic) can use that license as a provision to drive a manual transmission vehicle (in the same class) provided he/she is accompanied by a fully qualified driver that holds a manual license.

As the provisional license covers all transmissions and the process for getting it (be it with the intention of driving a manual or an automatic) is the same, it is totally illogical to require someone that has been through the system before and completed the process (ie. is now a fully qualified driver) to have to go back to square one and do it again. As this is totally illogical, it comes back to my origonal statement that this is just another typical IRISH MONEY MAKING RACKET.

I will finish with three simple words "RIP-OFF-IRELAND!"

Permabear

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djt0607

You see, it is abosolute clowns like you that has this country the way it is. Why dont we all just bend over and take it up the backside without as much as flinching?

First of all, it doesnt matter what bull**** random statistic (of 5% for automatic drivers on the roads) you pull out of you head, at the end of the day once you pass the test you are a "fully qualified driver"! Almost all cars in the US are automatic. Does this mean that almost all drivers are not fully qualified?

Secondly, which is better: €15 in my pocket or €15 in the states? (and once its in the states hands it gets spent on ridiculous things like the spire on o connell street).
I would take a guess (and believe i am pretty damn accurate with it) that your simply a spotty little teenager living with your parents who has never had to graft for anything in your life and therefore knows nothing about the value of money. If you had to graft for it, you would think more of "just €15". Dont forget, there is approximately 4 million people in ireland. Even if 1% of them (thats 40,000) is in a similiar situation to myself, thats €600,000 that the state is taking off people (and that could only be within a certain time frame: one year, two years or even three years maybe). But of coarse to you its "just €600,000". Go back to school!

Permabear

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djt0607

Apologies. It's just that frustration is often an extremely difficult emotion to withold.

It anoys me when people give credit (no matter how small) to a bunch of mindless nincompoops that cant tell the difference between their heads and their asses.

You do take my point though (dont you?) that €15, which may seem a small amount, is being taken from our pockets, for something that is totally illogical and which in reality does not need to happen. And as I said, a relatively small sum of €15 when multiplied by 1% of the population becomes an enormous amount. It is just far simpler and more logical to let the full automatic license act as a provisional liscense. If this was to cause confusion or any sort of problems for the guards, the rsa, whoever,.. i would say yes, by all means people must go back to square one and resit everything again, but it doesnt.

Permabear

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