First Rifle

Indubitable

Hello all,

A nephew of mine will be turning 16 very shortly and desires his first rifle that would be used for plinking and small game hunting. I own a lot of land and his father has a phobia of firearms so I have the task of going around with my nephew to get this rifle and to bore-sight the scope and shoot it with him.

I don't have a huge experience with rifles but for his first rifle i am thinking along the lines of a .22LR rimfire as the ammunition is very cheap and then if he enjoys shooting he can get a centrefire rifle later on.

In the recession money is tight but he has a budget of around €250 for the rifle and i will be buying him a scope for a present.

I am no firearms expert and my rifle is an old piece of sh*te but i get by. Would you guys be able to recommend a good rifle at that price? I expect to get it used at that budget. I was also wondering whether he should get a semi auto or bolt-action rifle as a beginner.

murph226

try irishguntrader.ie

kay 9

For 250 I think you should be able to get a very good s/h .22lr. if ya went another 100-150, you would have the price of a new CZ which are one the best around But second hand is alright too, will leave ya with bit more cash to hunt for a scope (excuse pun)

bunny shooter

CZ 22lr which is a bolt action is the way to go most dealers should have a few s/h in stock and €250 should get you a decent one

Indubitable

Thanks for the information guys. I love boards, so much valuable information....


I have another question. Would it be hard for my nephew who only turned 16 to obtain a firearms licence for a .22 cal rifle?

He has never gotten in trouble with the law and has a reason to obtain a firearm.

In regards to land, I am a farmer with over 150 acres of land and I have two friends of mine living close to me with lots of land who would gladly give my nephew shooting rights (keeps down the number of foxes;)).

I know that the refusal or acceptance of an application varies greatly on the superintendant but it would be nice to get a general idea

foxshooter243

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

Thanks for the information guys. I love boards, so much valuable information....


I have another question. Would it be hard for my nephew who only turned 16 to obtain a firearms licence for a .22 cal rifle?

He has never gotten in trouble with the law and has a reason to obtain a firearm.

In regards to land, I am a farmer with over 150 acres of land and I have two friends of mine living close to me with lots of land who would gladly give my nephew shooting rights (keeps down the number of foxes;)).

I know that the refusal or acceptance of an application varies greatly on the superintendant but it would be nice to get a general idea

By my reckoning with you behind him and his clean bill of health with the powers that be, and having a good reason to own a firearm , he has a watertight case..good luck!:)

poulo6.5

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

Thanks for the information guys. I love boards, so much valuable information....


I have another question. Would it be hard for my nephew who only turned 16 to obtain a firearms licence for a .22 cal rifle?

He has never gotten in trouble with the law and has a reason to obtain a firearm.

In regards to land, I am a farmer with over 150 acres of land and I have two friends of mine living close to me with lots of land who would gladly give my nephew shooting rights (keeps down the number of foxes;)).

I know that the refusal or acceptance of an application varies greatly on the superintendant but it would be nice to get a general idea

cz style €450 new, i'm sure there are plenty of them around s/h
its ideal for plinking, bunny's, crows and magpies etc. not ideal for fox.
a magnum would be better for fox.
bang for buck you cant beet the .22lr.

this is my one with a grey crow,

Cass

Would agree 100% with the lads on a CZ .22lr. Excellent little rifle, accurate enough, cheap and readily available from most gun dealers. What neck of the woods are you from? County will do? Might be able to recommend a few dealers near you.

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

........... Would it be hard for my nephew who only turned 16 to obtain a firearms licence for a .22 cal rifle?

Well he is the right age and as Foxshooter said you/he seem to tick all the right boxes. Only snag might be that as this is his first rifle/firearm he must complete a competency course to show he can safely handle the rifle. The MNSCI (Midlands National Shooting Centre of Ireland) has a competency course being run. Check out their website here and in the bottom right hand corner under "Facilities for Visitors" you will see a list of facilities and the competency course is listed among them. Contact details are on the main page. Worth a ring.

Indubitable

ezridax wrote: »

Would agree 100% with the lads on a CZ .22lr. Excellent little rifle, accurate enough, cheap and readily available from most gun dealers. What neck of the woods are you from? County will do? Might be able to recommend a few dealers near you.



Well he is the right age and as Foxshooter said you/he seem to tick all the right boxes. Only snag might be that as this is his first rifle/firearm he must complete a competency course to show he can safely handle the rifle. The MNSCI (Midlands National Shooting Centre of Ireland) has a competency course being run. Check out their website here and in the bottom right hand corner under "Facilities for Visitors" you will see a list of facilities and the competency course is listed among them. Contact details are on the main page. Worth a ring.

I am based in roscommon and am very near the borders between sligo and leitrim and he is based in north county dublin, so anywhere near there would do.

My nephew is no fool and knows how dangerous a gun can be but I might enroll him in the course. Even if he knew everything already, at least his mother wouldn't worry about him as much.

Cass

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

............ he is based in north county dublin, so anywhere near there would do.

A few to start with......
Balbriggan

Courtlough Shooting Grounds

Courtlough Shooting Grounds, Courtlough Balbriggan, Co. Dublin
01 8413096
www.courtlough.ie
Contact: Liam Flynn
Email: liam@courtlough.ie
Mobile: 0876803224
Dublin

MAY-TEC Sporting Arms

Derek May
Telephone 087 6641599
FAX 01 8097206
http://www.may-tec.com/
AMSport

Co. Dublin http://www.amsport.info/
Lucan

Angling & Sporting Centre

Ballydowd, Lucan, Co. Dublin
Monkstown

Crescent Sports

10A, The Crescent, Monkstown, Co. Dublin
Neil
01 2808988
Naul

Christopher Lindsay

Fingal sports, Baldaragh, Naul, Co. Dublin
Christopher Lindsay
086 2620243
http://www.fingalsports.com
Tallaght

Tallaght Rod & Gun

Unit 2, Castletymon Shopping Centre, Tallaght, Co. Dublin.
01 4526522
087 2445022

My nephew is no fool and knows how dangerous a gun can be but I might enroll him in the course. .............

I'm afraid for first time applications a competency course is mandatory, and all Gardai will insist on a cert from an authorised range/club/organisation to show one has been done. It in no way was intended as an insult or to imply your nephew was unsafe.;)






PS - You would be looking at something like this for no more than €550 - €600 max.(second hand)

jap gt

i did it last month its basically just a talk from a safety advisor, its very straight forward and he will learn a bit from it, its worth doing it when starting out as he will learn a lot about safety backstops etc

Cass

For my own curiosity, where did you do it?

Indubitable

With this "Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009" does it say that I would need a gun cabinet for a .22 rimfire rifle or am i reading this wrong?

Cass

Yes. You need a safe for a rifle.

transit260

I had a complete clear out last year and bought me a new cz.22 and a cz .223,I must say they are top notch at what they do,Ive had loads of rabbits with the .22 and Im shooting many farms with the .223 for fox before lambing starts.For 250 euros you'll get a decent enough gun but the sights are as important as the rifle and I think you'll find they cost as much as the gun to get a decent reliable set.

J.R.

You could try here - they're based in Navan, Co. Meath.

http://www.sportsden.ie/guns/gun-showroom/rifles.html?rifle_caliber=293

jap gt

ezridax wrote: »

For my own curiosity, where did you do it?

it was done in a place called broadford, pj o connor owns a clay shoot there and himself and jim o connor whos a safety officer in the nargc and Tom O'Donnell the chairman of nargc where there, good course to do and jim said he is doing courses all over the country

jamesomara

If you are looking for an auto, here's the best choice you can possibly make for a first rifle: the Ruger 10/22.

It is a work horse, priced right, cheap ammo, simple to break down, incredibly reliable, and will get a newbie into the game. There's a reason why this model is coming up on its 50th birthday: quality, affordability, and reliability.

http://www.ruger.com/products/1022/index.html

You will be able to cull smaller varmints and indeed it will do the job on bigger vermin like foxes. If you cannot take a fox within 100 yards with a 22LR, you shouldn't be allowed to shoulder a weapon.

Junior should learn safety, trigger control, proper form, and a myriad of other shooting safeties and protocols before you ever attempt to let him shoot a hotter round. A hotter bigger round at this age will probably result in bad habits being formed: flinching, trigger anticipation, and more.

Junior will need to learn a lot and this is the gun to learn on. No matter how old you get, this firearm is one you always keep around.

Cass

jamesomara wrote: »

........ If you cannot take a fox within 100 yards with a 22LR, you shouldn't be allowed to shoulder a weapon.

Firearm, once more for the late comers..............FIREARM.

Sparks

jamesomara wrote: »

If you are looking for an auto, here's the best choice you can possibly make for a first rifle: the Ruger 10/22.

Oh good grief no. Horrible rifle. Inaccurate, designed to be cheap and reliable rather than accurate, overly complicated with more to break compared to a bolt-action.

Stick with something that's bolt-action or falling-block or martini or something simple, where there's time between each shot so you don't rush into firing just to fire, but have to think about that last shot for a second or five.

CZs are cheap and cheerful and decent for the money; but if you can find an old BSA martini that's not shot out, they're probably the best value for money it's possible to find. Granted, the sights are old, but as IWM will tell you from looking at DURC's BSA (which is about thirty years older than he is and still outshoots some of the club's anschutz rifles), those BSAs were crafted rather than made.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

Oh good grief no. Horrible rifle. Inaccurate, designed to be cheap and reliable rather than accurate, overly complicated with more to break compared to a bolt-action.

Stick with something that's bolt-action or falling-block or martini or something simple, where there's time between each shot so you don't rush into firing just to fire, but have to think about that last shot for a second or five.

CZs are cheap and cheerful and decent for the money; but if you can find an old BSA martini that's not shot out, they're probably the best value for money it's possible to find. Granted, the sights are old, but as IWM will tell you from looking at DURC's BSA (which is about thirty years older than he is and still outshoots some of the club's anschutz rifles), those BSAs were crafted rather than made.

Must try get some photos of that gun next time I'm down, because there are just some absolutely beautiful aspects of it. Hard to have a love of or interest in firearms without being able to appreciate a gun like that.

Indubitable

We have settled on the cz 452 or the remington 597. I am trying to explain that there is more maintenance in a semi auto and alot more bits and pieces.

jamesomara

King,
Have you had many autos? I have never had to do anything to my 10/22 but keep it clean. Thousands of rounds and never a problem, not even a barrel.

There is no 22 auto around that price that out performs it. It is a work horse and a fundamental for most beginners.

You need to determine what action you want: auto, bolt, pump, lever, break, or whatever. Have you asked Junior? It would be a nice surprise to just show up with it. However, maybe Junior has the heart set on something? It's nice to get a surprises, however, it will be even nicer a year or two down the road to have gotten something that you wanted.

If you have narrowed it down between CZ and Remington - go with Remington, hands down.

I have had my Ruger 10/22 for decades, never rebuilt, will never sell it.

CZ's come in cheaper due to politics and the Ruger's and Remmy's suffer at the hands of trade. If you want to be thoroughly depressed, have a look at the prices these things are going for at gunbroker.com . How about a Rem 700 in 223 for €360. Taxes, taxes, taxes: free stuff for some winds up costing a lot more for others.

For the record, I have owned several CZ products and Ruger. Both make a fine product. I do like CZ's pistols.

However, I caution that you do not listen to those slagging the 10/22. Please do not take my word for it. Go post questions on a boards where people are not constrained to owning a 22 and needing a reason to own it. Not trying to be political, however, suss out a board where people can own as many 22's as they like and see what they have to say. When you buy an item, you naturally think that you bought the best. If you are limited to only buying one of those, how big can your sample size be?

I have to wonder if CZ's are that great, why is the board chock full of people wanting to sell them? Why would you want to get rid of your 22 if it is that great?

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eddiemc5

Hi guys, my first time using this thread but i would love some advice. I'm considering buying my first rifle for mainly foxes and some rabbits. i have a budget of €500 incl. scope. i've been told a centrefire is best but i'm not sure after that. Some advice would be great. Thanks

yog1

james can i ask your opinion, (not looking to stir), witch do you feel is the more accurate rifle, bolt action of semi, or do you feel one is as good as the other, i'm in the market for a new .22, and up until now i was told that bolt was normaly more accurate, i'd like to compair like for like, say a £300-£400 stg gun

jamesomara

eddiemc5
As I am sure the purists will be along to correct, contradict, and bad mouth just about everything I have to say, I will make my case brief.

Remington Model 700 in 223.

Centerfire - absolutely. I would not consider the rim fire.

If you are independently wealthy, go for the 700 in 22-250.

If you are like me (most bang for buck) get the 223.

The 22-250 is a hot round. We used to call it the barrel burner. Nowadays the barrel technology prevents this problem.

The 223 is not as fast as the 22-250, however, it does fly flat and fast. The big difference is price. The 22-250 is much more expensive. If the cost-benefit is one you agree with - enjoy.

jamesomara

yog1
Now that's a different question.

In general, I agree that bolt actions are more accurate. However, let's not compare the Kimber to the Ruger.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161310806

In the price range you are talking I would try and go with something German. However, there's lots of nice 22's out there: Anschutz, Sako, Kimber, Walther, Savage...

Here's fun Walther
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161182073

If you haven't seen this one - great for outdoors - it even floats!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=162126232

Do you mean to say that you have a 22 and looking for another or you are just looking for a 22?

What would you like to do: plink, shoot cheap, have fun, get serious about competition, some of the afore, all of the afore.

Give us a bit of an idea. Is it going to live on a farm and cull vermin? Are you going to go to the club, bog, or family farm?

Cass

jamesomara wrote: »

eddiemc5
As I am sure the purists will be along to correct, contradict, and bad mouth just about everything I have to say, I will make my case brief.

Paranoid much???????????

Remington Model 700 in 223.

Centerfire - absolutely. I would not consider the rim fire.

If you are independently wealthy, go for the 700 in 22-250.

If you are like me (most bang for buck) get the 223.

The 22-250 is a hot round. We used to call it the barrel burner. Nowadays the barrel technology prevents this problem.

The 223 is not as fast as the 22-250, however, it does fly flat and fast. The big difference is price. The 22-250 is much more expensive. If the cost-benefit is one you agree with - enjoy.

I don't see anything wrong with that advice. I was only holding one yesterday, while out with a mate looking at .223s. Its a lovely feeling and very solid rifle. Great action and looks great in the "light" timber effect. That and the fact that my cousin has one in .243 and if the .223 performs anything like it, it will be a tack driver.

yog1

jamesomara wrote: »

yog1
Now that's a different question.

In general, I agree that bolt actions are more accurate. However, let's not compare the Kimber to the Ruger.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161310806

In the price range you are talking I would try and go with something German. However, there's lots of nice 22's out there: Anschutz, Sako, Kimber, Walther, Savage...

Here's fun Walther
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161182073

If you haven't seen this one - great for outdoors - it even floats!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=162126232

Do you mean to say that you have a 22 and looking for another or you are just looking for a 22?

What would you like to do: plink, shoot cheap, have fun, get serious about competition, some of the afore, all of the afore.

Give us a bit of an idea. Is it going to live on a farm and cull vermin? Are you going to go to the club, bog, or family farm?

i'll probably do all of the above apart from compete, i'm planing on changing my old 22 for a new one, i want to learn to shoot with a cheap round then move on to a bigger one, old 22 seems to have sh*t itself and i dont really fancy learning to shoot with a 22-250, it will be on a farm and will be used for rabbits but mainly plinking

jamesomara

yog1
I think you're choice depends upon the action: auto or bolt. Auto - definitely the 10/22 bolt, I recommend the Remington.

For general merriment and my farm duties I love the 10/22.

Have a look at the Swiss K31
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161461251

They designed a bolt action that was a straight-pull. Just back and forth, no need to rotate the bolt handle towards the head.

When you rotate the bolt your head will normally move out of the line of sight. Your cheek may come off of the stock as well. Cheek coming off of stock is why sooooo many right handed trap shooters miss shots going to their right and nail the ones to the left.

Once you have changed these variables (head, cheek) the next shot is like a new shot. The auto will allow you to minimize these variables and keep time/sight on target. Less fiddling, moving, and resetting helps keep you on target.

This is exactly the reason the Swiss developed the straight pull - so that the head movement was minimized.

Do you have any prices on models that you are looking at?

You did quote Sterling, correct? Is there enough in the pot to get the 10/22 and the 223?

The 10/22's on GunBroker go for a scant €170. Doubtful it arrives in your county without a dublin of that.

yog1

have a separate budget's for the 22-250 and the .22, was only going to get a new 22-250 untill the old .22 started to mess about so it's a new project,

was thinking of somthing simple and cheap somthing like a cz, (heard lots of good reports), have an old anschutz 520 semi and i love's it, but dont think i can streach to get another, but i'm always open to suggestions, want accuratesy more than fun, (need's to be a little fun though;)), like i said it's going to be a starter rifle for me, so it's going to be a all rounder