The Summer Tour Thread.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And therein lies the problem - every time he hits form, he get's injured, then you've a few weeks to rebuild form.

If he gets a good preseason in, he'll have a few months to try and earn a place for the Novemeber tests. All requires him to remain injury free though.

Leamy has been realitively injury free up to now. Ferris is much more injury prone. Its not the same injury that Leamy is getting which is when I would start worrying. The fact that he seems to have recovered earlier than expected is good news as he wasn't expected back until next season.

Exiled2NY

thehighground wrote: »

Do you not think its a big ask throwing quite a few inexperienced players away against the ABs & Australia. The last thing Ireland need is a depressing tour to the SH. McLaughlin didn't pull up many trees against Italy a month or so ago and I don't remember hearing that Muldoon was outstanding against Canada or USA last year.

Im not talking about throwing in quite a few inexperience players against the AB or OZ, not sure where you are getting this from? Theres plenty of experience in the front 5, 7 and 8 anyway. Id be starting a backrow of
6. McLaughlin/Muldoon
7. Wallace
8.Heaslip

I think having one or two new players come into the team for this game and the oz game will benifit the team and benifit the squad looking to the future

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Leamy has been realitively injury free up to now. Ferris is much more injury prone. Its not the same injury that Leamy is getting which is when I would start worrying. The fact that he seems to have recovered earlier than expected is good news as he wasn't expected back until next season.

Well it's like I said earlier, when you're coming back from injuries you're more likely to get injured. While Leamy's had an injury free career up to this point, that's not so much the case anymore.

Also, I've seen f all of him under the new rule interpretations. Wonder will they help or hinder him.

thehighground

Exiled2NY wrote: »

Im not talking about throwing in quite a few inexperience players against the AB or OZ, not sure where you are getting this from? Theres plenty of experience in the front 5, 7 and 8 anyway. Id be starting a backrow of
6. McLaughlin/Muldoon
7. Wallace
8.Heaslip

I think having one or two new players come into the team for this game and the oz game will benifit the team and benifit the squad looking to the future

Front row: Healy (5 caps), Court (4) Flannery (36), Best (34) Cronin (1?) Buckley (13)

2nd rows: DOC (55), Cullen (19) Toner (0)

Backrow: Muldoon (1) McLaughlin (1), Wally (61), Heaslip (24)

Not a huge amount of experience in that pack - particularly in the front row which would make a big difference to the rest of the team who will need their wits about them to survive.

Edit: Jennings also needs gametime at international level.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

Do you not think its a big ask throwing quite a few inexperienced players away against the ABs & Australia. The last thing Ireland need is a depressing tour to the SH. McLaughlin didn't pull up many trees against Italy a month or so ago and I don't remember hearing that Muldoon was outstanding against Canada or USA last year.

McLaughlin was excellent against Italy. Don't know what game you were watching.

McLaughlin has been one of the performers of the year for Leinster and more than deserves his place on the tour.

If Leamy comes back next year and out-performs McLaughlin and Muldoon then he'll take his jersey back, but at this stage he hasn't done anything of note in nearly 2 years, whereas McLaughlin and Muldoon have been excellent (although, as has been mentioned, Muldoon is playing at a lower level).

It's ridiculous to say that Leamy should be selected ahead of McLaughlin. That's like saying Fitzgerald should be selected ahead of Earls.


And also, someone said that Sexton is in poor form. And that Keatley is in better form. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this forum, ever. Keatley is currently playing poorly for Connacht, and Sexton is one of the most influential players in Irish rugby and has been in excellent form. And then someone said NOC is in better form as well (:pac:)... Niall O'Connor is playing some of the worst rugby of his career, and is slowly losing his place again to one of the worst defenders on the planet. Even ROG, who has been poor by his own standards, is miles ahead of Keatley and NOC at the moment. Keatley should be brought on tour based on his play earlier this season, where he showed potential, but if NOC is brought I'll eat my laptop.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

Front row: Healy (5 caps), Court (4) Flannery (36), Best (34) Cronin (1?) Buckley (13)

2nd rows: DOC (55), Cullen (19) Toner (0)

Backrow: Muldoon (1) McLaughlin (1), Wally (61), Heaslip (24)

You forgot Horan, who I imagine will likely start at this stage. Between himself and Flannery/Best there is plenty of experience in the front row. Likewise with Wally and Heaslip in the backrow.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Playing himself into top form? He had as many poor/rubbish games this season as he had good ones. For every Perpignan or Ulster performance you had a Glasgow, Embra or Leinster performance.

Glasgow was his first game of the season. Perp & Ulster were his last two games so yes, he was getting better as the season was progressing.

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

It is unfortunate that McLaughlin has been injured for 3 years because of injuries - but he is missing 3 years playing experience that others have.

So what? He has proven this season that he only needed one season to get up to speed. Hes had a better first season than Earls or Fitzgerald did and I think the guy is going to be something special.

I know Italy have a good pack, but McLaughlin only had an okish performance.

Just because you keep repeating that won't make it true. McLaughlin by all accounts had an excellent performance on his 6 nations debut against one of the most physical packs in world rugby. Don't believe me? Go to the newspaper archives and read the reports, he was brilliant.

FFS, Alan Quinlan at the age of 36 is the most inform 6 at the moment!

Hes had a few good games in succession but overall Muldoon and McLaughlin have been better. McLaughlin has been the form 6 all season and if you can't see that you must be blind, Leinster hardly felt the void left by Elsom.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

Leamy has been realitively injury free up to now. Ferris is much more injury prone. Its not the same injury that Leamy is getting which is when I would start worrying. The fact that he seems to have recovered earlier than expected is good news as he wasn't expected back until next season.

It's not the same injury for Ferris either. I don't understand your point.

Ferris has had injuries, but still managed to be one of the best players on our Grand Slam winning team, and then dominate the early Lions game, where the Brits fell in love with him and then came back to play the majority of this season.

So I don't understand how Ferris should be more worried about his injuries than Leamy? Leamy has been getting injured just as often as Ferris, except his injuries keep him out for months, instead of weeks.

LF1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

McLaughlin was excellent against Italy. Don't know what game you were watching.

McLaughlin has been one of the performers of the year for Leinster and more than deserves his place on the tour.

If Leamy comes back next year and out-performs McLaughlin and Muldoon then he'll take his jersey back, but at this stage he hasn't done anything of note in nearly 2 years, whereas McLaughlin and Muldoon have been excellent (although, as has been mentioned, Muldoon is playing at a lower level).

It's ridiculous to say that Leamy should be selected ahead of McLaughlin. That's like saying Fitzgerald should be selected ahead of Earls.


And also, someone said that Sexton is in poor form. And that Keatley is in better form. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this forum, ever. Keatley is currently playing poorly for Connacht, and Sexton is one of the most influential players in Irish rugby and has been in excellent form. And then someone said NOC is in better form as well (:pac:)... Niall O'Connor is playing some of the worst rugby of his career, and is slowly losing his place again to one of the worst defenders on the planet. Even ROG, who has been poor by his own standards, is miles ahead of Keatley and NOC at the moment. Keatley should be brought on tour based on his play earlier this season, where he showed potential, but if NOC is brought I'll eat my laptop.

Good post. Under thehighgrounds logic maybe Fitzgerald should instantly get his place ahead of Earls when he comes back? :rolleyes:
Sexton out of form He was off form with kicking in the 6 nations but other than that has been excellent. Against Clermont he was fantastic as was his kicking. O'Gara on the otherhand has had a nightmare with the boot since and fell apart against Biarritz miskicking and knocking on all over the place. Keatley isnt even first choice anymore! But thehighground wants us to ignore all that.... O'Gara and Keatley to tour, Leamy to be parachuted back into the 22 ahead of McLaughlin and Muldoon, Donnacha Ryan to be covering the backrow, luke Fitzgerald, Sexton and Sean O'Brien prob wont make the squad but Leamy will ....l.o.l

LF1

danthefan wrote: »

Playing himself into top form? He had as many poor/rubbish games this season as he had good ones. For every Perpignan or Ulster performance you had a Glasgow, Embra or Leinster performance.

But Danthefan, hes performed well in a handful of games over a 24 month period! Hes clearly done more than enough to warrant his place ahead of McLaughlin and Muldoon, who have been starting week in week out and consistently been playing excellent.

Oh and by the way, Leamy should tour upon coming back from injury but not Sean O'Brien, Luke Fitzgerald or Jonathan Sexton as there.....eh......not as fit as Leamy is

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

There are only 3 games to be played - how to you accommodate them all with gametime? Its the ABs & Aus who we are playing against, not the Dragons!

So you're worried about starting players like Cronin, Fionn Carr and Muldoon against Australia but not the least bit worried about starting a player who hasnt played a game in months against them?

Odd logic. By the way I reckon the likes of Cronin, Carr and Muldoon would have no problem stepping up to international level, just because they don't play for Munster doesn't mean they aren't up to it.

Exiled2NY

thehighground wrote: »

Front row: Healy (5 caps), Court (4) Flannery (36), Best (34) Cronin (1?) Buckley (13)

2nd rows: DOC (55), Cullen (19) Toner (0)

Backrow: Muldoon (1) McLaughlin (1), Wally (61), Heaslip (24)

Not a huge amount of experience in that pack - particularly in the front row which would make a big difference to the rest of the team who will need their wits about them to survive.

Edit: Jennings also needs gametime at international level.

What I see as the most likely pack for the first game anyway (caps from IRFU/provincial websites website

Healy(7)/Horan(66)
Fla(36)/Best(39)
Buckley(17)
DOC(61)
POC (70)
Mildoon(1)/Mclauglin(1)
Wallace(62)
Heaslip(26)

Leaving a bench of
Best(39)/Fla(36)
Court (7) - covers both sides
Cullen(24)
Jennings(3)/Muldoon(1)/McLaughlin(1)

From that I disagree I think it will still be a fairly experiences pack. Tighthead would cause me far more worry than either Muldoon or McLaughlin

I wouldnt be overly worried about Jennings due to all his club experience at a high level

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

McLaughlin was excellent against Italy. Don't know what game you were watching.

If he was so great against Italy, how come a obviously half fit Ferris started against France?

McLaughlin has been one of the performers of the year for Leinster and more than deserves his place on the tour.

If Leamy comes back next year and out-performs McLaughlin and Muldoon then he'll take his jersey back, but at this stage he hasn't done anything of note in nearly 2 years, whereas McLaughlin and Muldoon have been excellent (although, as has been mentioned, Muldoon is playing at a lower level).

It's ridiculous to say that Leamy should be selected ahead of McLaughlin.

Leinster (like Munster) haven't exactly had a great season. btw, McLaughlin didn't cover himself in glory against Connacht where I think it is fair to say Muldoon outperformed McL, whereas Munster thirds beat Connacht.

That's like saying Fitzgerald should be selected ahead of Earls.

No its not the same. As pointed out before, Earls competed with Trimble for the spot on the wing, won it and kept it in the 6Ns (and end up joint top try scorer - and now has a better try scoring record than Fitzy). At that, I would expect Earls & Fitzy to be swopping the bench on a regular basis for the next couple of years depending on who the opposition is. McLaughlin didn't do any of that.

And also, someone said that Sexton is in poor form. And that Keatley is in better form. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've read on this forum, ever. Keatley is currently playing poorly for Connacht, and Sexton is one of the most influential players in Irish rugby and has been in excellent form.

I said Sexton has a poor 6Ns (which seems to be a result of an injury). I said Keatley had a good game against Toulon who would be considered to be a good team.

Do you think Sexton had a good 6Ns? He has hardly played for Leinster in the last 4 months and seems to be very injury prone.

And then someone said NOC is in better form as well (:pac:)... Niall O'Connor is playing some of the worst rugby of his career, and is slowly losing his place again to one of the worst defenders on the planet. Even ROG, who has been poor by his own standards, is miles ahead of Keatley and NOC at the moment. Keatley should be brought on tour based on his play earlier this season, where he showed potential, but if NOC is brought I'll eat my laptop.

I don't recall seeing anyone saying anything about bringing NOC anywhere.

Stev_o

Personally i dont see Locky as the type of 6 you want in a dog fight game where its extremely physical compared to other 6's available he doesn't stand above the rest in that department. However when the game breaks up and becomes loose he's a wonderful link man to have. Id play him against Australia (which is a tall order considering the pack row they ll put out) with Muldoon having a go against the AB's. If Leamy or D Ryan or even SOB are considered fit to travel stick one of them at 6 against the Maori and see what happens from then on in. Personally id like to see SOB get more gametime at 6 where i think it suits him better then 7.

thehighground

LF1 wrote: »

So you're worried about starting players like Cronin, Fionn Carr and Muldoon against Australia but not the least bit worried about starting a player who hasnt played a game in months against them?

Odd logic. By the way I reckon the likes of Cronin, Carr and Muldoon would have no problem stepping up to international level, just because they don't play for Munster doesn't mean they aren't up to it.

Deep breath here .....

I never said Leamy should go on tour down under. Please read this thread (or at least a few posts back) as I don't want to bore everyone by repeating myself again.

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

If he was so great against Italy, how come a obviously half fit Ferris started against France?

Because Ferris is one of the best 6s in the world.

Leinster (like Munster) haven't exactly had a great season. btw, McLaughlin didn't cover himself in glory against Connacht where I think it is fair to say Muldoon outperformed McL, whereas Munster thirds beat Connacht.

Are you actually laying the blame of Leinster's season at the feet of McLaughlin? Thats pathetic and your really reaching. Hes been Leinster's best performer all season. Oh and one game doesnt change that especially a gamne where he was coming back from an injury and struggling with fitness! Also you beat a Connacht side with an eye on the upcoming cup game, that doesnt mean suddenly Muldoon shouldn't start. Your logic is quite frankly, absolutely insane.

No its not the same. As pointed out before, Earls competed with Trimble for the spot on the wing, won it and kept it in the 6Ns (and end up joint top try scorer - and now has a better try scoring record than Fitzy). At that, I would expect Earls & Fitzy to be swopping the bench on a regular basis for the next couple of years depending on who the opposition is. McLaughlin didn't do any of that.

Oh highground, were you not saying earlier how Donnacha Ryan was back up 6? Surely McLaughlin had to compete with him to get the 6 spot when Ferris got injured? Chris Henry was also used at 6 and wasnt chosen.

I said Sexton has a poor 6Ns (which seems to be a result of an injury). I said Keatley had a good game against Toulon who would be considered to be a good team.

Yes I am well aware you are fond of basing opinions of a player on one game that is favourable to your view.

Do you think Sexton had a good 6Ns? He has hardly played for Leinster in the last 4 months and seems to be very injury prone.

Lets see, nearly 100% kicking success rate at the start of the season, MOTM against Fiji is in his international debut, excellent game against the World Champions where he was praised by the media and nailed all his kicks. Returned to ML in excellent form. Got injured, returned to playing just as 6N kicked off and managed to work his way back into the team. Set up tries and was defensively brilliant in the games however due to his injury had a poor kicking return. Returned from 6N and started hitting form again peaking at the recent Clermont game where he was brilliant and kicked excellently before getting injured. I wouldnt say hes injury prone hes just been unlucky. Foul play from Parra. His injuries obviously arent helped by the fact that he likes to play on with fractured jaws, forearms and broken fingers though. That said its great to see an outhalf who can actually tackle!

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

Deep breath here .....

I never said Leamy should go on tour down under. Please read this thread (or at least a few posts back) as I don't want to bore everyone by repeating myself again.

You've stated he should be ahead of McLaughlin and Muldoon upon returning from injury. He returns from injury in time for summer tour (as you've mentioned) you are basically alluding to this summer. Now your backtracking.

Diom

Muldoon not going so that Leamy or SOB can would be ridiculous. Yes he hasn't played HEC (the usual excuse for ignoring Connacht players) but he has been playing quality oppposition, including French championship contenders, European Champions, Magners League champions etc.. He deserves his chance.
Mul brings a superb defensive game with him, can be a lineout option, offers 6 and 8 backup, and is a born leader. I am Connacht biased obviously but I'd have him ahead of McLaughlin as well. Would like Henry to travel as well.

JOC is the quintessential 7. He should go, because we have no-one else like him. Wally is one of my favourite payers of all time, but he doesn't bring what JOC brings, and Heaslips carrying ability would offset Wallys loss. With a backrow of Mul, Heaslip and Joc I think that we would have the best balance we could without Ferris. Jennings could offer a lot there as well, but he's more defensive and not as quick as JOC or offer as much of an open field threat.

Cronin and Carr (whose defense and positioning are much much improved this season) don't need defending.

Duffy IMHO is pushing Kearney. There, I said it. Kearney is admittedly in poor form, and perhaps he'll lift it once he faces an opposition worthy of his greatness, but Duffy has stated his own case. He's been exploiting opposition defensive flaws all season, is an aerial master, and again he's an experienced leader on the field. Murphy is my first choice at FB though (that makes Kearney 3rd... based on form, not quality).
Duffy is never fazed by the international game, and his bad performances in a couple of the games has damned him, thanks to fact that Connacht players only get one real chance. I can guarantee you that if Buckley/Jennings were Connacht players they'd never have gotten Irish caps. People might think I'm being paranoid, but look at the history of the IRFU and the CBIRFU... the discrimination was there from the start, it was endemic and it still is.

TheHighGround: Connachts defeat to Munster was devastating. Obviously (and I said as much before the game) the lack of the usual faces deadened the passions a little bit. The fact that they relaxed and underestimated the opposition was taken advantage of in a very good performance from Munster. It's very very harsh to discount a player like Muldoon on the basis one game.

thehighground

LF1 wrote: »

Because Ferris is one of the best 6s in the world.

He is one of the best 6s in the world when he is fully fit. He wasn't fully fit against France.

Are you actually laying the blame of Leinster's season at the feet of McLaughlin? Thats pathetic and your really reaching. Hes been Leinster's best performer all season. Oh and one game doesnt change that especially a gamne where he was coming back from an injury and struggling with fitness! Also you beat a Connacht side with an eye on the upcoming cup game, that doesnt mean suddenly Muldoon shouldn't start. Your logic is quite frankly, absolutely insane.

Nope I'm not claiming anything of the sort and you know it. (though now that you mention it, Leinster might have had a better season if Rocky was still with Leinster as he really is a world class player).

Leinster lost to Connacht when they presumably also had an eye on the Amlin Cup.

Oh highground, were you not saying earlier how Donnacha Ryan was back up 6? Surely McLaughlin had to compete with him to get the 6 spot when Ferris got injured? Chris Henry was also used at 6 and wasnt chosen.

Ryan is a backup Lock who also plays 6. Ryan made the bench for France when he got injured, McLaughlin didn't. Who knows what would have happened if Ryan wasn't injured.

Yes I am well aware you are fond of basing opinions of a player on one game that is favourable to your view.

For a new poster (welcome by the way), that is quite a sweeping statement.;)

Lets see, nearly 100% kicking success rate at the start of the season, MOTM against Fiji is in his international debut, excellent game against the World Champions where he was praised by the media and nailed all his kicks. Returned to ML in excellent form. Got injured, returned to playing just as 6N kicked off and managed to work his way back into the team. Set up tries and was defensively brilliant in the games however due to his injury had a poor kicking return. Returned from 6N and started hitting form again peaking at the recent Clermont game where he was brilliant and kicked excellently before getting injured. I wouldnt say hes injury prone hes just been unlucky. Foul play from Parra. His injuries obviously arent helped by the fact that he likes to play on with fractured jaws, forearms and broken fingers though. That said its great to see an outhalf who can actually tackle!

You are avoiding the question. Do you think Sexton had a good 6Ns? No one questions his bravery with playing with a fractured jaw, but at the end of the day he isn't much use to either Leinster or Ireland if he is continually picking up niggly injuries, particuarly when we don't have an abundance of goalkickers in our teams.

toomevara

LF1, thehighground: take it down a notch

thehighground

Diom wrote: »

Muldoon not going so that Leamy or SOB can would be ridiculous.

I don't think Leamy should travel

Cronin and Carr (whose defense and positioning are much much improved this season) don't need defending.

I think Cronin & Carr will travel - I don't see them getting a game ahead of Flannery or Best (who haven't had a lot of game time this year). Cronin's time will come. Who would you drop for Carr? Earls or Bowe? Would you have a back 3 of Carr, Bowe and Duffy? Would you drop BOD and play Earls at 13 (who only has about 8 caps)? And have a backrow of Muldoon, O'Connor & Heaslip against the ABs? Who would you put in the 2nd Row out of DOC, Cullen & Toner?

TheHighGround: Connachts defeat to Munster was devastating. Obviously (and I said as much before the game) the lack of the usual faces deadened the passions a little bit. The fact that they relaxed and underestimated the opposition was taken advantage of in a very good performance from Munster. It's very very harsh to discount a player like Muldoon on the basis one game.

I wasn't discounting Muldoon or Connacht for that. More pointing out that a good Leinster team shouldn't have lost to Connacht in the manner that they did.

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

He is one of the best 6s in the world when he is fully fit. He wasn't fully fit against France.

Even half fit the guy is world class just like O'Driscoll.

Leinster lost to Connacht when they presumably also had an eye on the Amlin Cup.

Leinster had their eyes on the semi there....

Ryan is a backup Lock who also plays 6. Ryan made the bench for France when he got injured, McLaughlin didn't. Who knows what would have happened if Ryan wasn't injured.

Ryan made the bench because he covered two positions. When it came down to it though and Ferris got injured, McLaughlin was started at 6 ahead of him. Ryan is an average player who is versatile. If Ferris is injured McLaughlin or Muldoon will start at 6.

You are avoiding the question. Do you think Sexton had a good 6Ns? No one questions his bravery with playing with a fractured jaw, but at the end of the day he isn't much use to either Leinster or Ireland if he is continually picking up niggly injuries, particuarly when we don't have an abundance of goalkickers in our teams.

Yes I do. Other than his kicking he was immaculate. In fact were it not for his injuries part on his kicking stats he would of been one of our best performers. When you ignore the kicking and look at his performance outside of that he was astounding. Unfortunately it was too soon for his kicking after the injury.
Well hes been unlucky with injuries as I've already said. I'd prefer if he made the tackles rather than cowered away even it means he might get injured. We've seen how costly it is for an outhalf not to make tackles for too long and besides ROG is there as back up if Sexton gets injured.

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

I don't think Leamy should travel

Yet you think he deserves to be ahead of Muldoon and McLaughlin based on the odd game over a period of 2 years?

I wasn't discounting Muldoon or Connacht for that. More pointing out that a good Leinster team shouldn't have lost to Connacht in the manner that they did.

But I fail to see what your point is? Every team has an off game and the Connacht game was the last game before the semi final for many of the players. Can you explain what your point is and how its relevant to this thread or are you just having a dig at Leinster?

outwest

leinster did target the connacht match, just look at the team they fielded.


i dont like how people are saying muldoon as impressed against lesser oposition,

he didnt look out of his dept when playing toulan, or leinster in fact muldoon out played the leinster backrow in that game, are leinster and toulan lesser teams, no leinster are hcup champs, and toulan are joint top in france.

it not good enugh to say leamy had a great here and a great game there. look at his bad performances, leamy is no longer a dead cert to go to the wrc, he will need to fight for his position,

thehighground

LF1 wrote: »

Yet you think he deserves to be ahead of Muldoon and McLaughlin based on the odd game over a period of 2 years?

Rated by the Irish management to start against Scotland for the GS year at No. 8. To come on for Ferris at 6 against France and most of the Welsh game when Ferris got injured. And Ireland did win the GS that year.

But I fail to see what your point is? Every team has an off game and the Connacht game was the last game before the semi final for many of the players. Can you explain what your point is and how its relevant to this thread or are you just having a dig at Leinster?

McLaughlin came second to Muldoon in that contest. I'm not having a dig at Leinster - I'm only too well aware that happens to all teams every now and again!

Ps - it wasn't Leinster's last game before the semi. There was a trip to Glasgow after that

eek.

I hope people do realise that players who are competing for a spot in the first 15, and are damn close, can be left out of the 22 very very often.

You may be not be the best 8 in the team, but because you can cover 4,5 and 6 you may well make the subs bench as opposed to someone who is better than you at each of those positions.

Subs = Utility players, and if this isn't done right (when we had O'Gara on the bench instead of Paddy Wallace) it can be extremely detrimental to the side, as so much gets unbalanced by an injury.

Diom

thehighground wrote: »

I don't think Leamy should travel

I know you hadn't said it. But the idea was bandied about, so I gave an opinion on it.

I think Cronin & Carr will travel - I don't see them getting a game ahead of Flannery or Best (who haven't had a lot of game time this year). Cronin's time will come. Who would you drop for Carr? Earls or Bowe? Would you have a back 3 of Carr, Bowe and Duffy? Would you drop BOD and play Earls at 13 (who only has about 8 caps)? And have a backrow of Muldoon, O'Connor & Heaslip against the ABs? Who would you put in the 2nd Row out of DOC, Cullen & Toner?

I'm very annoyed at Flannery over his recent behaviour to be honest. I think he needs to given a timeout. Let Best start. Cronin to start the BaaBaas game.
Back three for me would be Carr, Murphy, Bowe (start Duffy for BaaBaas, and he offers cover for the squad right across the backline). I would love to see Earls playing at 12 with BOD at 13 but with Nonu that may not be an option, perhaps against Australia.
Back row...yes... I honestly don't see why we shouldn't try new combinations and reward form. Putting Wally/Jennings in there simply because they have more caps achieves nothing.
I'd have POC and DOC. Unless POC is still injured, in which case I'd have Cullen (had a very very good year).

I wasn't discounting Muldoon or Connacht for that. More pointing out that a good Leinster team shouldn't have lost to Connacht in the manner that they did.

First off, thanks for being gracious in not discounting Mul or Connacht in general, but Connacht can only play what is in front of them. Leinster went after that game and did not play that badly, Connacht just were better.

thehighground

Deleted User wrote: »

eek.

I hope people do realise that players who are competing for a spot in the first 15, and are damn close, can be left out of the 22 very very often.

You may be not be the best 8 in the team, but because you can cover 4,5 and 6 you may well make the subs bench as opposed to someone who is better than you at each of those positions.

Exactly.

Subs = Utility players, and if this isn't done right (when we had O'Gara on the bench instead of Paddy Wallace) it can be extremely detrimental to the side, as so much gets unbalanced by an injury.

or Luke Fitzgerald/Keith Earls on the bench instead of Paddy Wallace. I don't think Kidney will be fielding any team if he can help it without a specialist 10 on the bench.

outwest

i for one would love to see this bench at least once during the summer

croinin
court i think he can cover both sides
leo 4 5
muldoon 6 and 8
boss
wallace 10 12
duffy, 13 14 15

i dont think ireland should have to out and out outhalfs in the 22, look at france, an injury at centre compleatly messed up the backline. not saying the bench i have is the one to have, but sub need to be able to cover more then one position

Diom

outwest wrote: »

duffy, 13 14 15

Duffy can cover 11->15 well enough.

irishbucsfan

I'd probably pick Trimble on the bench ahead of Duffy.

Duffy is a great player but I think if Earls and Kearney are both in the team (which they should be) then I don't think we really need a full back on the bench, whereas Trimble can cover the center just as well as he can cover the wings. Not only that, but it would allow us to pick ROG or Sexton on the bench as well.

outwest

i forgot about trimble, ya that would allow rog or sexton on the bench, but if 2 back got injured one of them would be out of position

LF1

thehighground wrote: »

Rated by the Irish management to start against Scotland for the GS year at No. 8. To come on for Ferris at 6 against France and most of the Welsh game when Ferris got injured. And Ireland did win the GS that year.

I dont believe McLaughlin was playing last year. Leamy was there because we had no one else simple as. Also why mention Ireland winning the GS unless you are actually trying to state Leamy was a major factor in the winning of the GS?

McLaughlin came second to Muldoon in that contest. I'm not having a dig at Leinster - I'm only too well aware that happens to all teams every now and again!

How did Quinlan come out against McLaughlin the two times Munster played Leinster?

Ps - it wasn't Leinster's last game before the semi. There was a trip to Glasgow after that

How many of those players started against Glasgow?

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

If he was so great against Italy, how come a obviously half fit Ferris started against France?

Just a note on this, as I feel it's important.

Both Ferris and O'Callaghan were put into the team half-fit.

A real case of Eddie O'Sullivan syndrome. Kidney shows enormous loyalty to his first choice players, far more than is shown anywhere in the world barring Martin Johnson's odd mancrush on Steve Borthwick.

Loyalty is neither a good nor a bad factor in team selection, merely a question of style, but it is something we're divvils for.

Leinster (like Munster) haven't exactly had a great season. btw, McLaughlin didn't cover himself in glory against Connacht where I think it is fair to say Muldoon outperformed McL, whereas Munster thirds beat Connacht.

Both Munster and Leinster got to Heineken Cup semi-finals. Munster might have been shíte in the Magners League, but Leinster certainly weren't. Both have had good, even very good seasons, just not as good as last year.

Looking at the players we have at our disposal, we either blood youngsters or go for a win down in New Zealand. Either way, I hope a clear plan is made.

thomond2006

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Just a note on this, as I feel it's important.

Both Ferris and O'Callaghan were put into the team half-fit.

A real case of Eddie O'Sullivan syndrome. Kidney shows enormous loyalty to his first choice players, far more than is shown anywhere in the world barring Martin Johnson's odd mancrush on Steve Borthwick.

Borthwick will miss the Summer Tour (in the news today) so he'll have to find someone else! :P

LF1

outwest wrote: »

i for one would love to see this bench at least once during the summer

croinin
court i think he can cover both sides
leo 4 5
muldoon 6 and 8
boss
wallace 10 12
duffy, 13 14 15

i dont think ireland should have to out and out outhalfs in the 22, look at france, an injury at centre compleatly messed up the backline. not saying the bench i have is the one to have, but sub need to be able to cover more then one position

I was thinking experimenting with this?

1.Healy
2.Cronin
3.Court
4.Cullen
5.O'Connell
6.Muldoon
7.O'Brien (if he can make it back)
8.Heaslip
9.Boss
10.Sexton
11.Carr
12.D'arcy
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Duffy

16.Flannery
17.Buckley
18.O'Callaghan
19.Henry
20.O'Leary
21.Kearney
22.Earls

Good mix of new players with experienced heads.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

If he was so great against Italy, how come a obviously half fit Ferris started against France?

There's no "if." He was great against Italy. It's recorded fact according to the journalists that reported on the match. He didn't play against France because Ferris was deemed fit by the coaching staff, and Ferris is an incredible player.

thehighground wrote: »

Leinster (like Munster) haven't exactly had a great season. btw, McLaughlin didn't cover himself in glory against Connacht where I think it is fair to say Muldoon outperformed McL, whereas Munster thirds beat Connacht.

He wasn't poor that day at all, again I don't know where you're getting that from.

Leinster have had a great season. Leinster are easilly top of the Magners League and got to the semi-final of the H Cup, where they were beaten by the best team in the competition (while having a huge injury list). That's a very impressive season. And McLaughlin has been one of our best performers.

Also, what Munster did against Connacht is irrelevant to McLaughlin and Leamy. Muldoon's performances have been excellent against everyone this season, and he deserves to tour. Whether he or McLaughlin starts will be very interesting.

No its not the same. As pointed out before, Earls competed with Trimble for the spot on the wing, won it and kept it in the 6Ns (and end up joint top try scorer - and now has a better try scoring record than Fitzy). At that, I would expect Earls & Fitzy to be swopping the bench on a regular basis for the next couple of years depending on who the opposition is. McLaughlin didn't do any of that.

McLaughlin started in the 6 nations. That's more than Leamy's done since the emergence of Ferris. Since the emergence of Ferris noones really going to get a look-in as a starter in the 6 jersey unless he's injured. The fact that McLaughlin doesn't start for Ireland because of Ferris is not a bad mark on him at all. There aren't many 6s in the world who would start for Ireland ahead of Ferris, Leamy certainly won't.

Maybe it's not the same, but the similarity is this: There is no argument to say that Fitzgerald is a better player than Earls, because he has no rugby under his belt to prove it. Earls is therefore, at the moment, the better player until Fitzgerald can come back and prove himself better. Now substitute the word Fitzgerald for Leamy and the word Earls for McLaughlin.

I said Sexton has a poor 6Ns (which seems to be a result of an injury). I said Keatley had a good game against Toulon who would be considered to be a good team.

Do you think Sexton had a good 6Ns? He has hardly played for Leinster in the last 4 months and seems to be very injury prone.

Yes, Sexton did have a good 6 Nations. Especially considering he was carrying an injury. Olly Campbell agrees. His goal-kicking was poor, apart from that he was as good as any out-half has ever been for Ireland in the modern era.

Sexton isn't injury prone, he broke his arm and then dislocated his jaw, two injuries which are not symptomatic of an injury prone player.

I don't recall seeing anyone saying anything about bringing NOC anywhere.

Must have misread it, it was somewhere above. Someone did say something about NOC and Keatley outperforming Sexton. Which is ridiculous.

irishbucsfan

outwest wrote: »

i forgot about trimble, ya that would allow rog or sexton on the bench, but if 2 back got injured one of them would be out of position

Boss covers full back and wing. I just remembered that!

LF1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's no "if." He was great against Italy. It's recorded fact according to the journalists that reported on the match. He didn't play against France because Ferris was deemed fit by the coaching staff, and Ferris is an incredible player.

Agreed I have no idea where thehighground got his opinion that McLaughlin didn't have a great game against Italy as he most certainly did. Looking through thehighgrounds posts its as if it almost pains him to even blurt the words 'he was ok' against Italy. The truth is he was stellar on his debut and for a player to play that well only a few months after getting a professional contract and in the 6 nations against one of the best packs was nothing short of an amazing accomplishment and McLaughlin deserves all the respect he got on the day.

He wasn't poor that day at all, again I don't know where you're getting that from.

He almost seems to be laying the defeat to Connacht at McLaughlin's feet just like he seemed to be laying Irelands GS success at Leamys. Odd to say the least.

Leinster have had a great season. Leinster are easilly top of the Magners League and got to the semi-final of the H Cup, where they were beaten by the best team in the competition (while having a huge injury list). That's a very impressive season. And McLaughlin has been one of our best performers.

Once again, no idea why thehighground thinks Leinster had a poor season. They finished first of the ML, are in the play offs and got knocked out of the semi finals of the HC by the best team in the competition. McLaughlin has been an integral part of this season and has been excellent.

Also, what Munster did against Connacht is irrelevant to McLaughlin and Leamy. Muldoon's performances have been excellent against everyone this season, and he deserves to tour. Whether he or McLaughlin starts will be very interesting.

Completely agree. Saying Muldoon doesnt deserve to tour because Munster beat Connacht in a game is absolutely insane. Just like saying McLaughlin doesnt deserve to tour because Connacht beat Leinster in a game. It seems the highground will twist anything to suit his agenda.

McLaughlin started in the 6 nations. That's more than Leamy's done since the emergence of Ferris. Since the emergence of Ferris noones really going to get a look-in as a starter in the 6 jersey unless he's injured. The fact that McLaughlin doesn't start for Ireland because of Ferris is not a bad mark on him at all. There aren't many 6s in the world who would start for Ireland ahead of Ferris, Leamy certainly won't.

Not only that but he did all of this in his first ever professional season which considering the injuries he had to come through is incredible.

Maybe it's not the same, but the similarity is this: There is no argument to say that Fitzgerald is a better player than Earls, because he has no rugby under his belt to prove it. Earls is therefore, at the moment, the better player until Fitzgerald can come back and prove himself better. Now substitute the word Fitzgerald for Leamy and the word Earls for McLaughlin.

Good point.

Yes, Sexton did have a good 6 Nations. Especially considering he was carrying an injury. Olly Campbell agrees. His goal-kicking was poor, apart from that he was as good as any out-half has ever been for Ireland in the modern era.

Yep I believe Olly Campbell was very impressed. Take out his kicking which was affected by his injury and Sexton looked incredible. His defence was impregnanable and some of try assists were world class.

Sexton isn't injury prone, he broke his arm and then dislocated his jaw, two injuries which are not symptomatic of an injury prone player.

Two injuries and hes apparently injury prone most Irish players have had more injuries this season.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Must have misread it, it was somewhere above. Someone did say something about NOC and Keatley outperforming Sexton. Which is ridiculous.

I said they were in better form than Sexton, as Sexton has "no form" as he is injured.

I was trying to point out how there are various ways to judge Players abilities vs form.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I said they were in better form than Sexton, as Sexton has "no form" as he is injured.

I was trying to point out how there are various ways to judge Players abilities vs form.

Oh well in that case I misunderstood

You have a point. But perhaps there's a difference to be considered between injuries like Fitzgerald's and Leamy's and then the ones that Sexton had. I don't know if you could say Sexton has "no form."

That gets kinda deep because you'd have to define form.

Deep / waffley.

I'm trying to point out that Sexton with bad form > NOC/Keatley in good form.

I've possibly made an absolute mess of it.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Just a note on this, as I feel it's important.

Both Ferris and O'Callaghan were put into the team half-fit.

And imo, if Leamy was fit he would have started and Ferris would probably have been on the bench. O'Callaghan's fitness was fine.

A real case of Eddie O'Sullivan syndrome. Kidney shows enormous loyalty to his first choice players, far more than is shown anywhere in the world barring Martin Johnson's odd mancrush on Steve Borthwick.

Loyalty is neither a good nor a bad factor in team selection, merely a question of style, but it is something we're divvils for.

I doubt if Peter Stringer, Shaune Payne, Anthony Foley or Ronan O'Gara would agree with that statement.

Both Munster and Leinster got to Heineken Cup semi-finals. Munster might have been shíte in the Magners League, but Leinster certainly weren't. Both have had good, even very good seasons, just not as good as last year.

Munster have had two good games this season - the one away against Perp and at home to Northampton in the QFs. How Munster topped its pool I have no idea - it was pure luck. Leinster looked good against the Scarlets - other than that Leinster were lucky to top their pool as well. Leinster did well in the Magners as you said - but that is not much of a measure really when coming to knock-out rugby.

Looking at the players we have at our disposal, we either blood youngsters or go for a win down in New Zealand. Either way, I hope a clear plan is made.

We can't blood all of the youngsters together - the ABs putting 40 or 50 pts on them is not going to do them any good.

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's no "if." He was great against Italy. It's recorded fact according to the journalists that reported on the match. He didn't play against France because Ferris was deemed fit by the coaching staff, and Ferris is an incredible player.

He wasn't poor that day at all, again I don't know where you're getting that from.

According to the English Press (impartial)! -

Kevin McLaughlin 6
Club Leinster Caps 1 A tough assignment. A game effort but Ireland need Stephen Ferris fit for Paris

David Wallace 8
Club Munster Caps 58 Carried the ball countless number of times, took any number of hits but always rolled with the punches

Jamie Heaslip 7
Club Leinster Caps 22 Some lovely touches but didn’t get his hands on the ball in space as often as he

Ferris was poor by his standards this season. He had one good game against England.

Leinster have had a great season. Leinster are easilly top of the Magners League and got to the semi-final of the H Cup, where they were beaten by the best team in the competition (while having a huge injury list). That's a very impressive season. And McLaughlin has been one of our best performers.

See my post above as to how I rate Leinster & Munster's performance this season.

Also, what Munster did against Connacht is irrelevant to McLaughlin and Leamy. Muldoon's performances have been excellent against everyone this season, and he deserves to tour. Whether he or McLaughlin starts will be very interesting.

I agree - the only point I'm making is that Muldoon should be ahead of McLaughlin going on recent head-to-heads.

McLaughlin started in the 6 nations. That's more than Leamy's done since the emergence of Ferris. Since the emergence of Ferris noones really going to get a look-in as a starter in the 6 jersey unless he's injured. The fact that McLaughlin doesn't start for Ireland because of Ferris is not a bad mark on him at all. There aren't many 6s in the world who would start for Ireland ahead of Ferris, Leamy certainly won't.

Ferris still only has 17 starts since his debut in 2006 as he seems to be very injury prone. If he is available for 50% of international games, we'll be doing well. Leamy has had probably double the number of starts that Ferris has had in that period, even though he has been nearly out for 18 months of that period.

Maybe it's not the same, but the similarity is this: There is no argument to say that Fitzgerald is a better player than Earls, because he has no rugby under his belt to prove it. Earls is therefore, at the moment, the better player until Fitzgerald can come back and prove himself better. Now substitute the word Fitzgerald for Leamy and the word Earls for McLaughlin.

Fitzgerald has a fair bit of experience under his belt (including starting for the Lions) which will stand to him. He can't lose that. McLaughlin has little or no international experience in comparision to either Fitzgerald or Earls. Leamy has a fair bit of experience as well. Even you must see that

Yes, Sexton did have a good 6 Nations. Especially considering he was carrying an injury. Olly Campbell agrees. His goal-kicking was poor, apart from that he was as good as any out-half has ever been for Ireland in the modern era.

Sexton isn't injury prone, he broke his arm and then dislocated his jaw, two injuries which are not symptomatic of an injury prone player.

Ollie Campbell is hardly going to say anything else. If he has another six nations like that he won't get the benefit of the doubt. Remember how much flak O'Gara got when his kicking game wasn't great against England last season! (and we still won that game).

He also had a dead leg which seems to have badly affected his kicking game.

anonymous_joe

thomond2006 wrote: »

Borthwick will miss the Summer Tour (in the news today) so he'll have to find someone else! :P

Could be the best thing that's ever happened to him.

thehighground wrote: »

And imo, if Leamy was fit he would have started and Ferris would probably have been on the bench. O'Callaghan's fitness was fine.

I reckon Kidney'd have picked Leamy too.

I doubt if Peter Stringer, Shaune Payne, Anthony Foley or Ronan O'Gara would agree with that statement.

It's odd alright. He's picked a clearly unfit O'Callaghan over Cullen, while he dropped O'Gara. I've always felt Kidney has a natural predisposition towards players he's worked with in the past (though not an absolute one). He's coached the likes of Paddy Wallace, O'Driscoll, O'Callaghan before, as well as a lot of the Munster lads. He does seem to go for lads he's worked with before. Such is not at all an unusual decision. For a parallel, Johnson and Leicester players.

Munster have had two good games this season - the one away against Perp and at home to Northampton in the QFs. How Munster topped its pool I have no idea - it was pure luck. Leinster looked good against the Scarlets - other than that Leinster were lucky to top their pool as well. Leinster did well in the Magners as you said - but that is not much of a measure really when coming to knock-out rugby.

Munster have one of the strongest sides in Europe. So too do Leinster. Major reason for topping their groups. Also, what's referred to as 'knowing how to win.' Clermont showed against Leinster all the talent that's gotten them to 9 (or is it 10?) Top 14 finals. They also showed why they got fcuked hard in all those finals. Bottlers. Leinster and Munster are not ever going to be guilty of such a tag. (Though I've heard the Biarritz game was close from a few Munster fans.)

We can't blood all of the youngsters together - the ABs putting 40 or 50 pts on them is not going to do them any good.

Aye. Johnny Wilkinson's the only survivor from England's tour of doom.

Given how awful New Zealand rugby is right now at this very second in time, I think we'll never have a better chance to beat them at home, and this is the one time we need to say fcuk development (at least in the Test matches) and get that win.

Unless we know we can beat New Zealand, we will never ever win a World Cup, or come close.

Ciaran-Irl

It doesn't just come down to who is a better player between McLoughlin, Leamy and Muldoon you know. One is a better lineout option, one covers more positions, one is a better leader and tackler. That's just for starters. You're not playing pro evolution here lads.

irishbucsfan

thehighground wrote: »

According to the English Press (impartial)! -

Kevin McLaughlin 6
Club Leinster Caps 1 A tough assignment. A game effort but Ireland need Stephen Ferris fit for Paris

David Wallace 8
Club Munster Caps 58 Carried the ball countless number of times, took any number of hits but always rolled with the punches

Jamie Heaslip 7
Club Leinster Caps 22 Some lovely touches but didn’t get his hands on the ball in space as often as he

Ferris was poor by his standards this season. He had one good game against England.

Well, again, I think whoever wrote this is in the minority. McLaughlin carried well against the Italians (I remember it was the first time I'd ever considered him as a ball carrier) and he's so solid around the park.

thehighground wrote: »

See my post above as to how I rate Leinster & Munster's performance this season.

Well I agree with you. Apart that I would say that you are undervaluing the Magners a little.

thehighground wrote: »

I agree - the only point I'm making is that Muldoon should be ahead of McLaughlin going on recent head-to-heads.

Agreed. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. But if McLaughlin is started I could understand it just as easilly, considering the different levels the two players are competing at.

Ferris still only has 17 starts since his debut in 2006 as he seems to be very injury prone. If he is available for 50% of international games, we'll be doing well. Leamy has had probably double the number of starts that Ferris has had in that period, even though he has been nearly out for 18 months of that period.

Ferris wasn't the player in 2006 that he is now, he was still very raw. He only really matured in 2008. And since then he's been a huge part of the team. But yes, they are both very injury prone, in the same way.

thehighground wrote: »

Fitzgerald has a fair bit of experience under his belt (including starting for the Lions) which will stand to him. He can't lose that. McLaughlin has little or no international experience in comparision to either Fitzgerald or Earls. Leamy has a fair bit of experience as well. Even you must see that

What Leamy has in experience he loses out on in lack of any rugby over the last 18 months. Over the past 9 months McL has been the form 6 in Ireland, Leamy hasn't played. I hope Leamy comes back and plays the way he did at the top of his game, and if that happens then we can talk about putting him back in the squad.

thehighground wrote: »

Ollie Campbell is hardly going to say anything else. If he has another six nations like that he won't get the benefit of the doubt. Remember how much flak O'Gara got when his kicking game wasn't great against England last season! (and we still won that game).

He also had a dead leg which seems to have badly affected his kicking game.

Well in fairness to Sexton, he played 3 games. He was excellent against England, and was below average with the boot. Against Wales he was good, but he was awful with the boot. Then against Scotland he played excellently, and only missed two kicks, and then slotted the highest-pressure kick he had in the whole competition. All while carrying a leg injury. ROG was then brought on, and everyone said Sexton played badly, because it suited people who are clinging onto the glory days of ROG, which based on this season are growing ever-distant. Sexton is the best 10 in Ireland, without question. Even carrying injuries. Himself and ROG are miles ahead of NOC, Keatley, Humphries etc. who just aren't on the same level. Hopefully Keatley can get there, or Cusack, or one of the other prospects. But at the moment that's how it is.

And on the ROG performance against England. I gave him flak. I give him flak any day he has a bad performance with the boot because that's the reason he's played. Without his kicking game he's a very poor player, so if that fails him then he deserves the flak. Sexton is a different story.

thehighground

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well, again, I think whoever wrote this is in the minority. McLaughlin carried well against the Italians (I remember it was the first time I'd ever considered him as a ball carrier) and he's so solid around the park.

McLaughlin & Muldoon lack experience - which will be exploited up against McCaw & Co.

Well I agree with you. Apart that I would say that you are undervaluing the Magners a little.

Great . I don think it was a vintage Magners - probably more to do with the disruption the Lions caused and the introduction of playoffs. The Ospreys had a fair few injuries for example and Cardiff & the Scarletts weren't really competitive.

Ferris wasn't the player in 2006 that he is now, he was still very raw. He only really matured in 2008. And since then he's been a huge part of the team. But yes, they are both very injury prone, in the same way.

Ferris if far more injury prone than Leamy. Leamy by the way according to Munsterfans has been back in training with Munster since early March.

What Leamy has in experience he loses out on in lack of any rugby over the last 18 months. Over the past 9 months McL has been the form 6 in Ireland, Leamy hasn't played. I hope Leamy comes back and plays the way he did at the top of his game, and if that happens then we can talk about putting him back in the squad.

Since Nov. 08 Leamy has played 23 games for Munster (first game back after his op was against the ABs in Thomond) and 9 internationals. McLaughlin has played 21 games for Leinster & 1 international in the same period.

Presumably you would also expect the same situation to prevail with Ferris who has played 24 games for Ulster & 14 internationals in the same period and he hasn't had major surgery on his shoulder.

Well in fairness to Sexton, he played 3 games. He was excellent against England, and was below average with the boot. Against Wales he was good, but he was awful with the boot. Then against Scotland he played excellently, and only missed two kicks, and then slotted the highest-pressure kick he had in the whole competition. All while carrying a leg injury. ROG was then brought on, and everyone said Sexton played badly, because it suited people who are clinging onto the glory days of ROG, which based on this season are growing ever-distant. Sexton is the best 10 in Ireland, without question. Even carrying injuries. Himself and ROG are miles ahead of NOC, Keatley, Humphries etc. who just aren't on the same level. Hopefully Keatley can get there, or Cusack, or one of the other prospects. But at the moment that's how it is.

Sexton's game control is well below average as well as his kicking. Its a great pity he was injured because he could have done with the experience of playing down in Toulouse before heading of to New Zealand/Aus. He has very little experience of playing in very hostile away games.

And on the ROG performance against England. I gave him flak. I give him flak any day he has a bad performance with the boot because that's the reason he's played. Without his kicking game he's a very poor player, so if that fails him then he deserves the flak. Sexton is a different story.

So you don't rate ROG's game management then? I have a sneaky suspicion that the Ireland pack does.

Podge_irl

I'm not entirely sure why do much of this thread is devoted to talking about Leamy when he's not going to be on the summer tour...