Graphics card trouble?

Bodhan

Hi guys,

I was playing GTA IV last night when all of a sudden I got some freezing and red lines up and down the screen. Now this being GTA (bug city) I thought it was just crashing, but when I returned to the desktop there was loads of artifacts and red lines until windows said that the graphics driver had recovered from a crash.
I restarted the machine and the bios screen has the same lines running through everything, distorted text the lot. I've had the machine about 2 years and just changed over to windows 7 64bit.
All temps are fine and normal. Graphics card sitting at 48 degrees in idle and about 65 under load. Right now I can only get into windows in safe mode.

Do ya think the card is banjaxed or is there something else? Can I reset the bios of the card maybe?

Qty SKU Description
1.00 318627 Komplett Intel Gamer
1.00 122990 Norman IC, 1 year license Virus Control,
only for PC sold with Windows XP
1.00 105353 PC box
1.00 123324 SoftThinks Installation software,
only for PC sold with Windows XP
1.00 311890 Gigabyte 3D Aurora GZ-FSCA1-AN Black
Aluminium Body (Without PSU)
1.00 331912 OCZ Technology Powersupply ATX/EPS 720W,
80mm Fan, SATA, 4/8pin CPU, 20/24pin
1.00 321774 Asus P5W DH Deluxe,I975X,Socket-775,ATX,
SATAIIx7, Dual-GbLAN, DDR2, 2xPCI-Ex16
1.00 322633 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz Socket
LGA775, 4MB, BOXED w/fan
1.00 312054 Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2, 2048MB CL5
Kit w/two matched CM2X1024A-6400 Dimm's
1.00 331136 Gainward GeForce 8800GTS 320MB GDDR3 GS,
PCI-Express, "BP8800GTS-320M-GS-TV-DD"
1.00 320711 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB SATA2
16MB 7200RPM
1.00 325416 Samsung DVD±RW burner, SH-S182M, 18x,
Dual, LightScribe, DVDRAM, Zwart OEM
1.00 330707 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Eng
OEM DVD 32bit (note now running Windows 7 64bit)

Bodhan

Here's a screenshot just to show the lines

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40249758@N04/4453337363/

chin_grin

Bodhan wrote: »

Here's a screenshot just to show the lines

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40249758@N04/4453337363/

No lines in that pic that I can see. Eh might be a really stupid question, but did you try another monitor?

Sykk

I'ma gonna go with the obvious one here but have you uninstalled and reinstalled the graphics drivers?

Bodhan

Damn, you can't see any line in the screenshot? I'm still getting a lot of crashes and BSOD the monitor wouldn't do that though would it?

Bodhan

Yea, I updated everything although windows had the latest drivers anyway

Sykk wrote: »

I'ma gonna go with the obvious one here but have you uninstalled and reinstalled the graphics drivers?

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

Damn, you can't see any line in the screenshot? I'm still getting a lot of crashes and BSOD the monitor wouldn't do that though would it?

Nope, monitor wouldn't do that.

Couple of things - card may be broken, drivers may need updating, motherboard may have a defective PCI-E slot (though unlikely), PSU may be suffering problems.

If you have another PCI-E 16x slot, try move your card to there and see if that helps.

Secondly, try booting your machine as a very basic build. i.e 1 HDD, 1 stick ram, gfx card. See if your machine boots.

Generally when I see issues such as these, more often than not its either A) PSU or the GFX card itself.

Do you have another GFX card you could try? Or could you try your GFX card in another computer?

Also, is anything overclocked?

Also, any chance you can upload your pic here on Boards? (I can't get onto flickr in work)

Bodhan

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Nope, monitor wouldn't do that.

Couple of things - card may be broken, drivers may need updating, motherboard may have a defective PCI-E slot (though unlikely), PSU may be suffering problems.



If you have another PCI-E 16x slot, try move your card to there and see if that helps.
There is another slot further down for dual cards, I'll swap the card to that slot and see what happens

Secondly, try booting your machine as a very basic build. i.e 1 HDD, 1 stick ram, gfx card. See if your machine boots.

Generally when I see issues such as these, more often than not its either A) PSU or the GFX card itself.

Do you have another GFX card you could try? Or could you try your GFX card in another computer?

I don't have a spare to try either way, but I could try booting with on-board graphics to see if the lines are still there

Also, is anything overclocked?

No everything runs as stock

Also, any chance you can upload your pic here on Boards? (I can't get onto flickr in work)

done

Dublin_Gunner

Nothing wrong with that screen shot

Generally, if a screenshot turns out well, but you're seeing funny stuff on screen, its the monitor - but then again that should not be causing BSOD's..

(screenshots come directly from the framebuffer of the gfx card, so should be EXACTLY what the gfx card is outputting to the screen).

By any chance do you have the monitor hooked up to the PSU? (I know, clutching at straws here lol)

**edit
Also, how is the screen connected to the gfx card? Can you try maybe using the other DVI / VGA port on the card?

Bodhan

Its a Samsung Syncmaster 930bf. It has it's own power supply, as you say if the monitor was faulty I wouldn't be getting the BSOD and trouble with the divers/card. but I do have an old 17" monitor I'll give it a try for a laugh

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that screen shot

Generally, if a screenshot turns out well, but you're seeing funny stuff on screen, its the monitor - but then again that should not be causing BSOD's..

(screenshots come directly from the framebuffer of the gfx card, so should be EXACTLY what the gfx card is outputting to the screen).

By any chance do you have the monitor hooked up to the PSU? (I know, clutching at straws here lol)

noodletop

what nvidia driver are you using ?

the reason i ask is that the latest batch they released are causing the fans to cut out in game and the cards are gettin fried in the process:eek:. there was a note on their website about it the other day.



this is it

Nvidia 196.75 GPU Drivers Bugged, Causing Fans To Fail, Cards To Overheat
Mar 05, 2010 at 1:04 AM - Andrew Burnes - 10 Comments
A rather serious bug has been discovered in the recently released Nvidia 196.75 GPU drivers. So serious in fact, that it could cause your graphics card to be permanently damaged. As such, I'll put the warning in bold: downgrade immediately to the 196.21 drivers unless you want your GPU fans to slow to a crawl or stop altogether, causing your shiny, expensive video card to overheat and possibly suffer a permanent hardware failure.
Here's Nvidia's official statement, along with an extra warning from Blizzard:


We are aware that some customers have reported fan speed issues with the latest 196.75 WHQL drivers on NVIDIA.com. Until we can verify and root cause this issue, we recommend that customers stay with, or return to 196.21 WHQL drivers. Release 196.75 drivers have been temporarily removed from our Web site in the meantime.
-Nvidia PR

We're getting reports where users are getting intermittent low FPS after installing these drivers. It seems that it is related to the fan control included in these drivers not working correctly and is causing the video card to overheat on 3D applications. This will affect Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft and StarCraft 2 Beta. Please uninstall the drivers and revert back to the older ones.

-Blizzard PR

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

Its a Samsung Syncmaster 930bf. It has it's own power supply, as you say if the monitor was faulty I wouldn't be getting the BSOD and trouble with the divers/card. but I do have an old 17" monitor I'll give it a try for a laugh

As per my edit above, please try using the other output from the GFX card.

(I assume you're using the DVI port, not the D-Sub on the monitor)

Bodhan

That was my first thought, but I'm using the 196.21 drivers and I can see the fan turning anyway

noodletop wrote: »

what nvidia driver are you using ?

the reason i ask is that the latest batch they released are causing the fans to cut out in game and the cards are gettin fried in the process:eek:. there was a note on their website about it the other day.



this is it

Nvidia 196.75 GPU Drivers Bugged, Causing Fans To Fail, Cards To Overheat
Mar 05, 2010 at 1:04 AM - Andrew Burnes - 10 Comments
A rather serious bug has been discovered in the recently released Nvidia 196.75 GPU drivers. So serious in fact, that it could cause your graphics card to be permanently damaged. As such, I'll put the warning in bold: downgrade immediately to the 196.21 drivers unless you want your GPU fans to slow to a crawl or stop altogether, causing your shiny, expensive video card to overheat and possibly suffer a permanent hardware failure.
Here's Nvidia's official statement, along with an extra warning from Blizzard:


We are aware that some customers have reported fan speed issues with the latest 196.75 WHQL drivers on NVIDIA.com. Until we can verify and root cause this issue, we recommend that customers stay with, or return to 196.21 WHQL drivers. Release 196.75 drivers have been temporarily removed from our Web site in the meantime.
-Nvidia PR

We're getting reports where users are getting intermittent low FPS after installing these drivers. It seems that it is related to the fan control included in these drivers not working correctly and is causing the video card to overheat on 3D applications. This will affect Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft and StarCraft 2 Beta. Please uninstall the drivers and revert back to the older ones.

-Blizzard PR

Bodhan

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

As per my edit above, please try using the other output from the GFX card.

(I assume you're using the DVI port, not the D-Sub on the monitor)

Right I'm gonna give a bare bones boot with the graphics card in the other slot. Yes, there's only DVI output connectors on the card anyway

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

Right I'm gonna give a bare bones boot with the graphics card in the other slot. Yes, there's only DVI output connectors on the card anyway

Cool. Well do one at a time (to isolate the possible cause).

1. Bare build boot.

2. Bare build boot using the other DVI port on the card.

3. Bare build boot placing GFX card in other PCI-E slot.

Let us now how you get on.

noodletop

why not try taking out the graphics card and using the onboard graphics to see if it is actually a card issue. if you still get the dreadded blue screen then you can at least rule out the gpu

Dublin_Gunner

noodletop wrote: »

why not try taking out the graphics card and using the onboard graphics to see if it is actually a card issue. if you still get the dreadded blue screen then you can at least rule out the gpu

But as its a dedicated card being used, removing the GFX card could still leave 3/4 possible causes - GFX card itself, PSU, PCI-E slot, DVI port.

Personally, I'd rather try to isolate each of the scenario's first, before resorting to removing the card altogether. Instead of removing the card and going with onboard, I'd rather swap the card for another one of around the same power requirements, at least we'd be isolating possible causes then.

Coupled with the fact his motherbaord doesn't have onboard gfx......

Bodhan

So here's the latest, I swapped the card to the other slot and changed the monitor. Still no luck, its the same as it was.

If I boot into windows normally then no display, I mean blank screen. If I go into safe mode then I can get into windows no problem. I take it safe mode loads no drivers. Anyway I'm at a loss now unless I buy a new graphics card.

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

So here's the latest, I swapped the card to the other slot and changed the monitor. Still no luck, its the same as it was.

If I boot into windows normally then no display, I mean blank screen. If I go into safe mode then I can get into windows no problem. I take it safe mode loads no drivers. Anyway I'm at a loss now unless I buy a new graphics card.

Does anything pop up on the display? like no signal or out of range or something?

Can you see the POST screen?

This could very well be a driver issue.

D/L the latest drivers from Nvidia and install them in safe mode.

Yes, safe mode installs basic GFX drivers.

Bodhan

No there's no pop ups, just blank like the screen is waiting for the card to send something.

The POST screen is there, the text is garbled like hieroglyphics but still there

I'll try the drivers, but methinks I'm buggered

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Does anything pop up on the display? like no signal or out of range or something?

Can you see the POST screen?

This could very well be a driver issue.

D/L the latest drivers from Nvidia and install them in safe mode.

Yes, safe mode installs basic GFX drivers.

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

No there's no pop ups, just blank like the screen is waiting for the card to send something.

The POST screen is there, the text is garbled like hieroglyphics but still there

I'll try the drivers, but methinks I'm buggered

Even the post screen is garbled? Yeah, could be the card or the PSU alright. Drivers won't help that. (could even be the mainboard I suppose).

Can you get a loan of a gfx card to test with?

Bodhan

My brother might have one, I'll find out. I was thinking of buying this http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=584578 as a replacement, what do you think?

Dublin_Gunner

Good replacement for that card (its essentially a 9800GTX+), as it should be decent a bit faster, and use less power.

A good price/performance card.

But get a lend to test if you can, I'd hate to see you splash out on a new card only to have the same issues.

Bodhan

Thanks to all who tried to help today, I'm still in deep doo doo but I'm getting a loan of a graphics card tomorrow and then I'll see whats what I hope.

Not sure if this is relevant but the Bios is recognising all the ram I have. What I mean is the bios isn't reserving any of it for what it needs. I have 4gig, usualy the bios takes 800mb and leaves the rest for windows. But now the bios says 4096mb. maybe its nout but at this stage I'll clutch at A straw!

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

Thanks to all who tried to help today, I'm still in deep doo doo but I'm getting a loan of a graphics card tomorrow and then I'll see whats what I hope.

Not sure if this is relevant but the Bios is recognising all the ram I have. What I mean is the bios isn't reserving any of it for what it needs. I have 4gig, usualy the bios takes 800mb and leaves the rest for windows. But now the bios says 4096mb. maybe its nout but at this stage I'll clutch at A straw!

?? BIOS doesn't reserve ram....

It should always report the full amount at POST.

Only if you are using a 32bit OS will you see when in Windows that you actually only have about 3.2Gb available.

Actually, is this IN windows that you're seeing this? This could indicate a problem with the ram on your GFX card or your motherboard.

The reason you see less than 4gb when in a 32bit OS, is because the OS can only address 4GB TOTAL - this includes i/o devices, gfx ram etc

So if now your gfx ram is not reserving any address space, it says to me there is a problem with your card, or indeed your motherboard.

Bodhan

I finally got back into real windows, I still have lines all over the place but at least I can do some normal stuff. I did it by uninstalling the 8800gts and installing a standard VGA driver, the one that comes with windows.
So I think the problem will be the card, damn if i could just get rid of these lines now!

jimoc

Before you spend money you could try the trick that worked for me, baking your graphics card.
I had exactly the same trouble as you 6 months ago, cooked the card and its still going strong.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055705759

Dublin_Gunner

jimoc wrote: »

Before you spend money you could try the trick that worked for me, baking your graphics card.
I had exactly the same trouble as you 6 months ago, cooked the card and its still going strong.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055705759

Nothing to lose I suppose if the card is fecked anyway.

Bodhan

As an update, I got a loan of an nvidia 6800 and all is well, perfect display. So now I must go get a brand new card. I might bake my old one in the oven tonight. What temperature and for how long?

I want to thank all the guys who got involved in the problem especially Dublin_Gunner

Dublin_Gunner

Bodhan wrote: »

As an update, I got a loan of an nvidia 6800 and all is well, perfect display. So now I must go get a brand new card. I might bake my old one in the oven tonight. What temperature and for how long?

I want to thank all the guys who got involved in the problem especially Dublin_Gunner

No problem, pity couldn't help more!

On baking, remember to remove ALL plastic components first (fan, shroud, connectors etc).

(here's my chef description)
Place it on a baking tray covered in foil, in a pre-heated oven @ 180c for 10-15 minutes.

Take it out on the tray, and leave it to cool until its cold to the touch. Replace fan / shroud / heatsink / plastic connectors and re-install card.

With any luck - hey presto it will be fixed!

I'm really interested in how this goes, so be sure to post back!

Bodhan

Well its in the oven now, took ages to get the fan and all the plastic off it. Fingers crossed now. I'm hoping I don't smell anything burning

Bodhan

Out of the oven now, kinda crispy lol, gonna put the plastics back on in a minute and install. Back soon

Overheal

Ugh.

Rather than replace a ****ty nvidia card with another slightly less ****ty nvidia card why not consider switching brands?

You often hear how people dont feel comfortable doing that because they are "unfamiliar" with nvidia or ati, etc. - but I guess if you need to put one of their cards in the oven, that makes you painfully familiar with them.

Time to switch. After all the Class Action Suits, I decided it time to switch to competitor cards and give nvidia several years to live down the incident. The 8800s, btw, were some of the cards affected in those lawsuits. For precisely that issue: poor soldering and connections.

In hindsight I would NOT have baked it before trying to get it warranty claimed (2 years EU plus whatever extension you could have weasled out of the lawsuits aftermath) before doing something that would void all of the above.

jimoc

The issue with the nvidia cards was that their reflow ovens were too cold when the cards were being assembled.
Basically the solder is laid down as little beads on the PCBs and this is then passed into an oven which melts the beads into the nice shiny solder we're all familiar with.
The problem with Nvidia is that the beads didn't all melt properly.
Therefore under normal working conditions the beads would move slightly, causing the lines and failures that we see.
The baking causes the solder beads to melt properly and improves the connection.
I did mine for 15 minutes at 220 degrees C and its been working perfectly since then.

Hopefully the OP will be as lucky

Bodhan

You would never believe it, it works!! Just dropped into TF2 and its blasting away at full tilt!

Thanks again to Dublin_Gunner and jimoc, it might only last awhile but feck it, I can't believe that it's working perfect again lol

Overheal

Hope it stays that way. But yeah, im still personally beefed at the yokels >_>

Dublin_Gunner

Overheal wrote: »

Ugh.

Rather than replace a ****ty nvidia card with another slightly less ****ty nvidia card why not consider switching brands?

You often hear how people dont feel comfortable doing that because they are "unfamiliar" with nvidia or ati, etc. - but I guess if you need to put one of their cards in the oven, that makes you painfully familiar with them.

Time to switch. After all the Class Action Suits, I decided it time to switch to competitor cards and give nvidia several years to live down the incident. The 8800s, btw, were some of the cards affected in those lawsuits. For precisely that issue: poor soldering and connections.

In hindsight I would NOT have baked it before trying to get it warranty claimed (2 years EU plus whatever extension you could have weasled out of the lawsuits aftermath) before doing something that would void all of the above.

What has switching brands got to do with it?? Seriously? What have lawsuits got to do with it?
There is no "I always buy this brand" "dont buy this brand". Its all about price/performance ratio, to think otherwise is approaching fanboyism tbh.

Every manufacturer has trouble with certain products - lord knows ATI have (R600 anyone?) So really, your reasons for chosing ATI are all really based on the wrong ideology.

Do you by any chance have an Intel CPU? Run Windows? If so, you're using those despite the very same reasons you decided not to buy Nvidia....


Bodhan - excellent stuff!! I'm delighted that such a non-standard fix worked. Enjoy!!

Overheal

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

What has switching brands got to do with it?? Seriously? What have lawsuits got to do with it?
There is no "I always buy this brand" "dont buy this brand". Its all about price/performance ratio, to think otherwise is approaching fanboyism tbh.

Every manufacturer has trouble with certain products - lord knows ATI have (R600 anyone?) So really, your reasons for chosing ATI are all really based on the wrong ideology.

Do you by any chance have an Intel CPU? Run Windows? If so, you're using those despite the very same reasons you decided not to buy Nvidia....


Bodhan - excellent stuff!! I'm delighted that such a non-standard fix worked. Enjoy!!

If as many CPUs had catastrophically failed for Intel as GPU chipsets had failed for Nvidia, believe me: I'd never buy them again.

Im not talking about the usual anti-trust bs im talking about class actions about wide reported failures of entire product lines that nvidia actively tried to cover up and deny existed.

Much for the same course it will be quite a while before I sit inside of a Toyota again.

Dublin_Gunner

Overheal wrote: »

If as many CPUs had catastrophically failed for Intel as GPU chipsets had failed for Nvidia, believe me: I'd never buy them again.

Im not talking about the usual anti-trust bs im talking about class actions about wide reported failures of entire product lines that nvidia actively tried to cover up and deny existed.

Much for the same course it will be quite a while before I sit inside of a Toyota again.

In fairness, it only affected 1 product line (G84 & 86 - I'll say '1' product line, as they both use the same ASIC). These things happen. And in fact, I'm amazingly surprised that it doesn't happen more often.

But I wouldn't let that sway my decision on whether to buy an Nvidia or ATI part.

I've had numerous amounts of GPU's from both sides of the fence, and it always goes down to price/performance. I couldn't give a crap if a relatively small percentage of some of their parts were defective through one manufacturing run.

But, each to their own I guess.

jimoc

Bodhan wrote: »

You would never believe it, it works!! Just dropped into TF2 and its blasting away at full tilt!

Thanks again to Dublin_Gunner and jimoc, it might only last awhile but feck it, I can't believe that it's working perfect again lol

Excellent news
Another convert to the GCCC!!! (Graphics Card Cookery Club )

Overheal

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

In fairness, it only affected 1 product line (G84 & 86 - I'll say '1' product line, as they both use the same ASIC). These things happen. And in fact, I'm amazingly surprised that it doesn't happen more often.

But I wouldn't let that sway my decision on whether to buy an Nvidia or ATI part.

I've had numerous amounts of GPU's from both sides of the fence, and it always goes down to price/performance. I couldn't give a crap if a relatively small percentage of some of their parts were defective through one manufacturing run.

But, each to their own I guess.

Yeah but in this case, I Had one of those G84s..

If its not an issue anymore - great - but I cant say its not going to affect my buying decision in the future.

Dublin_Gunner

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah but in this case, I Had one of those G84s..

Ah, so its a bit of a sore spot!

Bodhan

jimoc wrote: »

Excellent news
Another convert to the GCCC!!! (Graphics Card Cookery Club )

Yes GCCC I'm in, still going strong.

I'm very wary of NVIDIA's claims that only the G84 and G86 are affected. I've seen several G80 chips (8800GTS/GTX) keel over and also a handful of the 7 series, though nowhere near as many as the 8s.

Glad to hear the oven trick worked by the way!

Overheal

Karsini wrote: »

I'm very wary of NVIDIA's claims that only the G84 and G86 are affected. I've seen several G80 chips (8800GTS/GTX) keel over and also a handful of the 7 series, though nowhere near as many as the 8s.

Glad to hear the oven trick worked by the way!

Thats kinda the main reason why I've boycotted the brand for a while - within a year or two more they'll have HAD to have burnt through all of their Stock of any faulty products.

The second reason was of course the abject denial and conduct-unbecoming.

Bodhan

Well, as an update. After working for about 24 hours I'm afraid there's some bad news. The graphics card is dead. There was no signal from the card in the earily hours of this morning, the motherboard reported that there was a problem contacting the video.
Condolences for the associated hardware.

On a bright note I've orderd this http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/4293143/art/asus/radeon-hd-5770-cucore-1-g.html wayyyyy cheaper than Komplett, pixmania are very good and most important cheap