Garda to begin 'withdrawal of goodwill'

MagicSean

bamboozle wrote: »

interesting post, i didnt know any of the above. my point still is the same though, why didnt the GRA negotiate improved conditions for its members when this was a land of milk and honey?

not trying to be smart but are gardai allowed supplement their income by coaching inter county football teams?

These things have been raised before but nothing is ever been changed. As far as I know that job is ok.

nesf

Fuhrer wrote: »

Are you simple?


He said because of the risk of catching HIV the Guards was the most difficult job, I said the risk for catching HIV is much higher in other jobs.


Smells like stupid!

Banned for a week for trolling.

irishh_bob

targus wrote: »

I wouldnt think so.. If you read his quotes he is obviously a bitter private sector worker with a gripe towards public servants. He is looking for a reaction so I wouldnt entertain getting involved in his narrow minded, mis-informed opinions.

As with all, I'm sure the opportunity was there for him to apply for a public sector job in the past. Like many others, he obviously passed up on the opportunity as public servants have been seen as poorly paid relative to the private sector during the boom years. Now with jobs in the private sector dried up he feels its fair game to 'have a go' at public servants.

However having viewed his previous posts and his choice of language its debatable whether a position in the public service could be found which would be suitable for his talents.

the public sector were better paid than the private sector right throughout the boom , the opposing arguement rests on one fact , the super rich ( developers , bankers ) were all in the private sector

irishh_bob

k_mac wrote: »

Gardaí have no unions. Not allowed. They have a lot of prohibitions. Running for political office for one. There's also many jobs they would be suited to take up as a second job, like security, but they are not allowed. I think this is why the G.R.A. want the pay restored. Because Gardaí are very limited in how they can supplement their wage.

lmfao , have you never heard of the phenomenon of the jobbing cop , many guards woked in construction during the boom and in the case of the recentley retired copper in my local small town , long before the boom , the seargeant ( in the local town ) who retired about five years ago was straight into a job as a labourer on sites , through a long established network , guards have always always had options in terms of employment after retirement

markpb

irishh_bob wrote: »

guards have always always had options in terms of employment after retirement

That's not what k_mac said - he said it was illegal for Gardai to have a second job *while serving with* AGS. If you think a guard is breaking the law, feel free to report them.

MagicSean

markpb wrote: »

That's not what k_mac said - he said it was illegal for Gardai to have a second job *while serving with* AGS. If you think a guard is breaking the law, feel free to report them.

It depends on the job. What Irish_bob said is correct. A garda with a trade can work in that trade for the most part. But most gardaí dont have a trade. A lot go in straight from school or college.

TheNog

Fuhrer wrote: »

Anyone smell that?


Smells like bull...

Actually its not BS. Policing has taken a turn for the worse since your Dad and friends were in the job.

Fuhrer wrote: »

The risk of catching HIV from spit is massively low


The risk of catching HIV from a needle is much higher, some occupations deal with junkies and needles a lot more the guards do.

The risk is extremely small but there is still the risk. AGS would not tolerate any Garda who does not take measures to reduce that risk even further by taking medication. Also by taking the medication requires the member to take time off work becuase it knocks the **** outta you.

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Explain me this..

When does a member of the guards need to use a personal laptop?? When they are walking up and down o'connel street?? dont think so...
Rolling around in their cars? doubt it.. At checkpoints? not a chance..

Mobile phones?? Dont they have radios?? Very good radios at that!! Why would they need a mobile.. Not for ordering their dinner.. Friend is in the business of radios/receivers.. have listened in on occasion... I can tell you what the local super's chipper order is!!!

Camers i can give them that.. they may need to take pics of an assaulted victim/accused.. broken into car etc..
But anytime guards have been up to my house for a broken into car or arrest a shoplifter in work they have never produced a camera for anything!!!!

So i can only assume the disruption on these 3 things is not going to be hugely significant... But if someone can prove me wrong on these points ill happily listen!!

Laptops were used to do up investigation files.

Phones were used to pass on confidential information because the old radio system could easily be eavesdropped.

Fuhrer wrote: »

Obviously they have stuff issued to them like computers and cameras but most of it is old, broken and already in use.

They use their own stuff to get the job down quicker.

Laptops and cameras were never personal issue. Instead one or two computers would be used for files but this computer would have to be shared by many Gardai.

TheNog

bamboozle wrote: »

interesting post, i didnt know any of the above. my point still is the same though, why didnt the GRA negotiate improved conditions for its members when this was a land of milk and honey?

It has taken 10/11 years of campaigning to get a secure radio system. It has taken many stabbings and shots fired at Gardai to get stab vests. Back in 1999 I think, it took two fatalities of Gardai in north dublin to get a proper modern fleet with airbags and abs.

The GRA are a representative group only and therefore legally dont hold as much power as a union. This is reflected in current times where the Government will hold talks with public services unions but the GRA are not allowed to attend.

Stark

Flamed Diving wrote: »

It's low, but not massively low. The HIV virus dies on contact with oxygen and/or lower than body temperature. However, if the virus can cocoon within the spitball, then transfer is possible. But let's concede the point to you anyway. All of it is bull****. It still remains a job where people are spitting blood at you.

Delightful. Where do I sign up?

The spit would also have to land directly into an open cut for there to be any chance of transmission.

In any case, face masks would be a cheaper solution than an indefinite "danger premium".

pah

Stark wrote: »

The spit would also have to land directly into an open cut for there to be any chance of transmission.

In any case, face masks would be a cheaper solution than an indefinite "danger premium".

Why not call it an "abuse premium" :rolleyes:

Sure you're ok if you don't have any open wounds, let them spit away at you sure tis part of your job isn't it? That's why you get paid SO much money

Stark

I didn't say it was okay for junkies to spit at Gardaí but it's not clear what the Gardaí are actually looking for. If it is extra pay and conditions, then how much is the "spit premium" that they're looking for?

Flamed Diving

Stark wrote: »

The spit would also have to land directly into an open cut for there to be any chance of transmission.

In any case, face masks would be a cheaper solution than an indefinite "danger premium".

I think people seem to be struggling to get my point. Perhaps this is my fault for not relaying it properly. I think that being a Garda in Dublin is a dangerous job, where you are the subject of constant abuse, and which doesn't end when you take your hat off, in the evening. Whether or not you can get HIV from the spit is irrelevant, so how about this to appease who it troubles? You cannot get HIV from people spitting blood at you. Just scrub that point from the record. However, I still do not envy the person who must go to work everyday, knowing that they must deal with such sub-humans.

MagicSean

Stark wrote: »

The spit would also have to land directly into an open cut for there to be any chance of transmission.

In any case, face masks would be a cheaper solution than an indefinite "danger premium".

Not for hep B. Doesnt that travel through saliva?

Do you really want a masked police force?

Stark

It makes no odds to me whether the Gardaí wear masks or not. I would have thought if there is a genuine danger, such as junkie spit getting in one's mouth, then the necessary protective equipment should be provided.

FlutterinBantam

murf313 wrote: »

basically you are becoming tiresome..... same speel post after post. you have the biggest chip on your shoulder ever. are you sure your not jimmmy?

How about rebutting the points I have made instead of launching a personal attack.


If I said anything untrue in that post ,please tell me. :cool:

murf313

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

How about rebutting the points I have made instead of launching a personal attack.


If I said anything untrue in that post ,please tell me. :cool:

that wasnt a personal attack... sorry if it sounded as such.

gold plated pensions, the fact you said the entire ps were whinging and the fact the entire public service has taken a pay cut- not the case with the private sector!

as usual this will be ignored, but i dont know 1 person in the private sector who has taken a paycut!

TheNog

Stark wrote: »

The spit would also have to land directly into an open cut for there to be any chance of transmission.

In any case, face masks would be a cheaper solution than an indefinite "danger premium".

Stark wrote: »

I didn't say it was okay for junkies to spit at Gardaí but it's not clear what the Gardaí are actually looking for. If it is extra pay and conditions, then how much is the "spit premium" that they're looking for?

Stark wrote: »

It makes no odds to me whether the Gardaí wear masks or not. I would have thought if there is a genuine danger, such as junkie spit getting in one's mouth, then the necessary protective equipment should be provided.

Are you for real? Have you fully thought out a scenario of a possible junkie getting violent and being restrained? Should Gardai tell that junkie to pause for a few seconds while PPE is put on?

C'mon Stark seriously

FlutterinBantam

murf313 wrote: »

that wasnt a personal attack... sorry if it sounded as such.

gold plated pensions, the fact you said the entire ps were whinging and the fact the entire public service has taken a pay cut- not the case with the private sector!

as usual this will be ignored, but i dont know 1 person in the private sector who has taken a paycut!

Laddie you need to get out a bit more.

I'll say it slowly... 56m out 36 m in... no room to increase taxes.

Now tell me what you would do?

Flamed Diving

Sorry, but is this an argument on the level of?

'Hey, I know you might get stabbed while on the job, but here is a stab vest. Now your job is no different to an office worker.'

Boston

TheNog wrote: »

Are you for real? Have you fully thought out a scenario of a possible junkie getting violent and being restrained? Should Gardai tell that junkie to pause for a few seconds while PPE is put on?

C'mon Stark seriously

It's standard garda procedure for members to put on latex gloves while dealing with junkies. They manage to do that, why not a mask. That said a mask would make it rather difficult to talk.

murf313

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Laddie you need to get out a bit more.

I'll say it slowly... 56m out 36 m in... no room to increase taxes.

Now tell me what you would do?

i would get out more only im usually working 12hr shifts at weekends. oh wait, im in the public sector i dont do any work do i???

you can say it slowly all you want, i still dont care...........

pah

Stark wrote: »

I didn't say it was okay for junkies to spit at Gardaí but it's not clear what the Gardaí are actually looking for. If it is extra pay and conditions, then how much is the "spit premium" that they're looking for?

Please :rolleyes: - Gardaí are not looking for extra pay and conditions as you put it. The GRA are acting to try and preserve them. They are our representative body and they are addressing the issue of paycuts being imposed. They wouldn't be representing us if they didn't. I think everyone knows paycuts won't be reversed but what they will do now is campaign to try and prevent anymore.

pah

Boston wrote: »

It's standard garda procedure for members to put on latex gloves while dealing with junkies. They manage to do that, why not a mask. That said a mask would make it rather difficult to talk.

He was talking about someone kicking off and being violent. There are no gloves put on either when that happens. It's best practice to wear the latex gloves when searching anybody, junkie or not

AlekSmart

Am I mistaken totally or was there an agreement reached some years ago now (Haughey era perhaps?) whereby Gardai recieved some form of mobile telephone benefit in return for the Dept of Justice giving Esat or somesuch the sole right to erect masts on Garda Stations and barracks countrywide..?

FlutterinBantam

murf313 wrote: »

i would get out more only im usually working 12hr shifts at weekends. oh wait, im in the public sector i dont do any work do i???

you can say it slowly all you want, i still dont care...........

Never said you didn't do any work.

I'll say it even slower.... the country can't afford the current public service pay and pension bill based on tax income.

The economy cannot afford to raise taxes to bridge the gap.

They are currently borrowing 20m a week to pay you and your colleagues.

They cannot print the money so, what is the obvious way to try to address the problem.


Answers on a 55c stamp.

GuanYin

Moderation Post

FlutterinBantam and murf313, if you can't be civil to each other and debate without snide remarks and insinuations about each other, I'll remove you both from the forum and you can settle your debate by PM.

GY

pah

AlekSmart wrote: »

Am I mistaken totally or was there an agreement reached some years ago now (Haughey era perhaps?) whereby Gardai recieved some form of mobile telephone benefit in return for the Dept of Justice giving Esat or somesuch the sole right to erect masts on Garda Stations and barracks countrywide..?

No idea but haughey retired 1992, not many mobiles around back then

cursai

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Have you met many guards? A lot of them are just thickos from kerry (no offence to thickos from kerry meant)

I like Ixoy's idea, give the guards proper laptops, work mobiles etc and cut some of their expenses, that would seem like a logical idea....which is probably why it isn't happening in the PS

And what are you. A well educated person from Dublin. Give up your ignorance.

murf313

fair enough mods.

flutterinbantam- if we dont act now to preserve current pay (which is after paycuts), where will they stop? if you were in our position you would be doing the same, no doubt about it

dolby

AlekSmart wrote: »

Am I mistaken totally or was there an agreement reached some years ago now (Haughey era perhaps?) whereby Gardai recieved some form of mobile telephone benefit in return for the Dept of Justice giving Esat or somesuch the sole right to erect masts on Garda Stations and barracks countrywide..?

You are correct however I thing it was 1996/97, I believe it was to erect phone masts in most Garda stations and esat would give free phone/bills to every Garda but they(state) only gave free phones to ranking members dont no why! but could give a few guesses:rolleyes::rolleyes:

TheNog

Boston wrote: »

It's standard garda procedure for members to put on latex gloves while dealing with junkies. They manage to do that, why not a mask. That said a mask would make it rather difficult to talk.

Because not all scenarios will slowly build up to violence. Sometimes a situation can be violent from the off and there is no time to put on a mask or even gloves. These types of scenarios would assault on Gardai.

If we take what other ES are faced where PPE is required such as FB or paramedics. The fire is not going anywhere for the FB folks and usually, neither is a patient going anywhere fast for paramedics.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Am I mistaken totally or was there an agreement reached some years ago now (Haughey era perhaps?) whereby Gardai recieved some form of mobile telephone benefit in return for the Dept of Justice giving Esat or somesuch the sole right to erect masts on Garda Stations and barracks countrywide..?

There were and in some cases still are state mobile phones from O2 (afair) but in many cases when they were lost or broken, they werent replaced despite repeated requests.

Anyways communication via mobile phone is very limited in its capacity.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Never said you didn't do any work.

I'll say it even slower.... the country can't afford the current public service pay and pension bill based on tax income.

The economy cannot afford to raise taxes to bridge the gap.

They are currently borrowing 20m a week to pay you and your colleagues.

They cannot print the money so, what is the obvious way to try to address the problem.


Answers on a 55c stamp.

The answers were pay cuts and cuts in resources which have already have been done for all employees in the Public/Civil service. Current measures being taken by Gardai are to ensure no further cuts in pay and conditions. We cannot afford to take any more cuts in pay. Same as private sector cannot take any increase in taxes or those on welfare cannot take anymore cuts either.

FlutterinBantam

Then we will have to reduce our standard of living.

cursai

Boston wrote: »

It's standard garda procedure for members to put on latex gloves while dealing with junkies. They manage to do that, why not a mask. That said a mask would make it rather difficult to talk.

???? are people this naive. how can a person have enough room on themselves to carry a supplement of face masks. they'll be going around like clowns. remember all the other equipment they have to carry like. like heavy bulky, ill fitting stab vest that are hand me downs from the English police. a belt that is as thick as luggage strap on. a personal radio, handcuffs, a baton, notebook, mobile phone and that silly hat.

You'd be fecked before getting out of the station.

And after working long shifts and just because these things are issued doesn't mean they'll always be accessible to get. All these things are supposed to make a Gards jobs equal or comparable to a job in the private sector, dont be a monkey. theres nothing to compare to it.

In the real world outside of the world most people are kept by the Gardai, these men and women have to live and work with the scum you don't want think about except to read about with shock and horror in the Daily rags.

Grow up.

Dont begrudge these people cause there jobs are harder than yours, applaude them

AlekSmart

You are correct however I thing it was 1996/97, I believe it was to erect phone masts in most Garda stations and esat would give free phone/bills to every Garda but they(state) only gave free phones to ranking members dont no why! but could give a few guesses

Thank`s dolby,i`m not senile yet....however as the Nog adds to our understanding of what should still be an enforceable deal...

There were and in some cases still are state mobile phones from O2 (afair) but in many cases when they were lost or broken, they werent replaced despite repeated requests.

Is/was this a Denis O Brien production ?

I would have thought that such a business arrangement would have been operated in a professional manner and not simply fall into disrepair in the manner of the Country itself....?

pah

cursai wrote: »

???? are people this naive. how can a person have enough room on themselves to carry a supplement of face masks. they'll be going around like clowns. remember all the other equipment they have to carry like. like heavy bulky, ill fitting stab vest that are hand me downs from the English police. a belt that is as thick as luggage strap on. a personal radio, handcuffs, a baton, notebook, mobile phone and that silly hat.

You'd be fecked before getting out of the station.

And after working long shifts and just because these things are issued doesn't mean they'll always be accessible to get. All these things are supposed to make a Gards jobs equal or comparable to a job in the private sector, dont be a monkey. theres nothing to compare to it.

In the real world outside of the world most people are kept by the Gardai, these men and women have to live and work with the scum you don't want think about except to read about with shock and horror in the Daily rags.

Grow up.

Dont begrudge these people cause there jobs are harder than yours, applaude them

I agree mostly but I would say our job has harder aspects such as shifts and everything mentioned in above posts which happen day after day around the country.

Personally I would find it harder to sit in a 6x6 cardboard prefab office space crunching numbers. I'd go off my game!! Which is one of the reasons I opted for the Gardaí as a career.

While I don't enjoy being spat at or abused I do enjoy telling the judge all about it

pah

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would have thought that such a business arrangement would have been operated in a professional manner and not simply fall into disrepair in the manner of the Country itself....?

LOL professional. There's nothing professional about how most of this country is run. I wouldn't have expected anything less.

cursai

"I agree mostly but I would say our job has harder aspects such as shifts and everything mentioned in above posts which happen day after day around the country.

Personally I would find it harder to sit in a 6x6 cardboard prefab office space crunching numbers. I'd go off my game!! Which is one of the reasons I opted for the Gardaí as a career.

While I don't enjoy being spat at or abused I do enjoy telling the judge all about it"



Ha Ha. You have to laugh! i'd give my day off to go court just to vent that kind of frustration to a judge and let him screw the guy. Even if he does get out three days later due to overcrowding.

dolby

AlekSmart wrote: »

Thank`s dolby,i`m not senile yet....however as the Nog adds to our understanding of what should still be an enforceable deal...



Is/was this a Denis O Brien production ?

I would have thought that such a business arrangement would have been operated in a professional manner and not simply fall into disrepair in the manner of the Country itself....?

The phones which had been offered would have been personal issue and would not have replaced the radio system just an aid. How much are 02 saving putting masts in the 600 Garda stations around the country, another health hazard. :rolleyes: eyes up again!!

MagicSean

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Have you met many guards? A lot of them are just thickos from kerry (no offence to thickos from kerry meant)

I like Ixoy's idea, give the guards proper laptops, work mobiles etc and cut some of their expenses, that would seem like a logical idea....which is probably why it isn't happening in the PS

Have you met many gardaí? Doesn't sound like it.

Poccington

cursai wrote: »

???? are people this naive. how can a person have enough room on themselves to carry a supplement of face masks. they'll be going around like clowns. remember all the other equipment they have to carry like. like heavy bulky, ill fitting stab vest that are hand me downs from the English police. a belt that is as thick as luggage strap on. a personal radio, handcuffs, a baton, notebook, mobile phone and that silly hat.

You'd be fecked before getting out of the station.

To be quite honest, if a member of the GS finds it in any way difficult or physically taxing to wear and carry the above kit there's something very wrong going on.

Angry_CS

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Never said you didn't do any work.

I'll say it even slower.... the country can't afford the current public service pay and pension bill based on tax income.

The economy cannot afford to raise taxes to bridge the gap.

They are currently borrowing 20m a week to pay you and your colleagues.

They cannot print the money so, what is the obvious way to try to address the problem.


Answers on a 55c stamp.

maybe, and only maybe we should look at 20 year old lads getting rent allowance for apartments and why the dole is 3 times higher than it is in the north.

Zambia

Cursai I finished shift about an hour ago and wore pretty much everything you mentioned and a lot more on said luggage belt.

If I wanted I could wear stab vest but I would suffer from the heat quicker. I find you comment not very well informed.

Alexsmart is right about the Phone mast deal I believe that that erections(dont start:rolleyes:) on a Gardai site do not require planning permisson hence O2 could shoot up Masts all over ireland in no time. I know the guy who was meant to have brokered the deal, it was genuis for a emeraging network. What the deal was regarding free phones I wont say as its all rumour.

In relation to the use of phones if an officer needs to talk to the control room he/she can always request the control room ring them. If they need to talk to each other quickly well its their choice to use their mobiles. Despite what any of these garda say, they will not stop doing things that make their life easier.

Pah said it very well he wants to be a Guard he enjoys the Job, others dont. each to their own.

Personnally I feel risk does not factor in the equation of Pay. It does factor in the provision of risk limitation expenditure. There are member's of the Garda reserve taking the risk every night for no money whatsoever. So Why should we pay Garda members more for risk when we have people who would do the job for free?

As for the comment about knowing nobody asked to take a pay cut in the Private sector (In ireland) I know at least 30 I can name.

Sadly for the gardai they for the most part needles , scumbags, bites, knives and all love their job you could cut their pay by a lot more than is proposed and they would stay in it. Put them in a 6x6 cubicles answering calls for the same money and they would resign in the morning.

pah

Zambia232 wrote: »

Cursai I finished shift about an hour ago and wore pretty much everything you mentioned and a lot more on said luggage belt.

1 Handheld Radio, 1 OC Spray, 1 ASP, 1 Pouch (Gloves, Alcohol Wipes) 2 Pairs Handcuffs, 1 Mobile Phone Pouch.....

Zambia232 wrote: »

There are member's of the Garda reserve taking the risk every night for no money whatsoever. So Why should we pay Garda members more for risk when we have people who would do the job for free?

No Offence but the Garda Reserve do absolutely nothing along the line of work that regular members do and would not in a Million years do our job Full Time for nothing. The Reserve is a PR Beat Walking waste of time IMHO

Zambia

pah wrote: »

1 Handheld Radio, 1 OC Spray, 1 ASP, 1 Pouch (Gloves, Alcohol Wipes) 2 Pairs Handcuffs, 1 Mobile Phone Pouch.....

all that
- 1 handcuffs
- Alcohol wipes
+ Utility Tool
+ Spare Mag
+ Firearm
+ Light Source
+ Back up Light Source

I probably carry the least amount of gear on my roster

pah wrote: »

No Offence but the Garda Reserve do absolutely nothing along the line of work that regular members do and would not in a Million years do our job Full Time for nothing. The Reserve is a PR Beat Walking waste of time IMHO

True my piont was in regards to the risk, they are prepared to run the risk for nothing part time. It was a stroke of genuis on the part of the goverment, free policemen who could turn that down??

TheNog

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Then we will have to reduce our standard of living.

We already have reduced our standard of living. With the levies and cutbacks in everything, my wages are down about 1/3 from 2 yrs ago.

How much more am I expected to have taken from me?

pah

TheNog wrote: »

We already have reduced our standard of living. With the levies and cutbacks in everything, my wages are down about 1/3 from 2 yrs ago.

How much more am I expected to have taken from me?

2/3

jonsnow

pah wrote: »

No Offence but the Garda Reserve do absolutely nothing along the line of work that regular members do and would not in a Million years do our job Full Time for nothing. The Reserve is a PR Beat Walking waste of time IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixTS7QdkFbs

rasper

Th Gardai are very well compensated in the jobs here, in comparison to their colleagues in the UK and on the continent. Use your phones and laptops or don't just shut up whining about it in your safe, secure, unsackable , over paid jobs

irishh_bob

TheNog wrote: »

We already have reduced our standard of living. With the levies and cutbacks in everything, my wages are down about 1/3 from 2 yrs ago.

How much more am I expected to have taken from me?

forgive me for not believing you that your wages are down 33% on two years ago

pah

rasper wrote: »

Th Gardai are very well compensated in the jobs here, in comparison to their colleagues in the UK and on the continent. Use your phones and laptops or don't just shut up whining about it in your safe, secure, unsackable , over paid jobs

jealous much?