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painting brake pads?

  • 23-03-2010 12:24am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭


    I was in town today and I noticed some sports cars with red painted brake pads inside the alloy wheels. Anybody have good advice on this? What is the best way to do it? Is it a DIY job or is it better to get a mechanic to do it? I would like to get it done on my car. It really brightens up the appearance of the car IMO.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭B00MSTICK


    I think by brake pads you mean brake calipers, yep its a DIY job.
    I'm sure Google has the answers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    Its not a lot more than removing the callipers, getting a can of spray paint, painting them, letting them dry and installing them back in.

    Because the callipers are mostly hidden behind the tires and you only mostly see them from far so you don't need to get an amazing finish or anything on them. Just as long as you can see the red callipers behind your alloys, you're in business!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Its a very boy racer type thing to be doing. You can do it though. You should use a special paint which is formulated to withstand the temperature etc. Caliper would need to be thoroughly cleaned & primed before the top coat is applied. Also be careful not to get paint on the rubber dust sleeves on the caliper as I imagine it would destroy them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Those sports cars you see actually have better braking systems, and the colour is there to compliment the car, such as a Ferrari's Brembos may be red, or a Porsches be yellow :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭kev91


    mickdw wrote: »
    Its a very boy racer type thing to be doing. You can do it though. You should use a special paint which is formulated to withstand the temperature etc. Caliper would need to be thoroughly cleaned & primed before the top coat is applied. Also be careful not to get paint on the rubber dust sleeves on the caliper as I imagine it would destroy them

    sorry but why is this a boy racer thing
    and are you talking about boy racers in there mothers car or the car enthusiasts in there own cars that have spent thousands on improving the car

    most of the cars and car enthusiast cars with these coloured brake calipers
    have not painted them it is simply the colour of them from the manufacturer
    the likes of brembo and k sport plus many more

    but in relation to your question

    what you do first is clean the calipers back to the bare metal to make sure its clean for painting with a drill and steel wool bit or a wire brush. i used the drill with the steel bit.

    first clean it down to get ready for painting,
    then i gave it the first coat, using simoniz high temp paint use at least 3 coats of high temp paint on them
    hope this helps

    kev


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  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭kev91


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Because you see 1.0 litre Corsa`s with tiny discs/rear drums with red painted calipers/red drums.

    so bassicly the young drivers do this sorry if i goin on a bit but i am a car enthusiast or knowin to others as a "boy racer "

    but i dont understand why i am put in the same as a young lad drivin his mas corsa or punto with big 17 or 18" alloys and an exhaust

    lads/girls like me spend hunderds and thousand on improving the car handiling and looks and performance but people look at us like we are goin around killing people

    people say about adding performance to the car but they dont understand that we have also but big brakes on the car that will stop the car quicker and better but were still branded as scum bags

    again sorry for the ot and the rant

    kev


  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭kev91


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Painting your brake calipers doesnt increase the performance. Most of the so called "enthusiast" spend thousands adding tacky body kits,spoilers and stupidly large exhausts. Rarely do they actually increase performance in fact these mods usually do the opposite. And I cant even remember the last time I saw a car with a brake upgrade that wasnt a proper sports car.

    sorry if i said painting your calipers adds performance in no way did i mean to say that
    i worked for a year and ahalf with a tunning company and not one person that crosed the doors of the workshop had put a tacky or over sized body kit on there car and these are all enthusiasts

    your comment above just proves my point that that if your a car enthusiast all you do is decreas the performance and add stupid body kits which is not true

    if you would like to know the true story of a car enthusiast join up to some of the enthusiast sites and leave a comment like above and see what everyone says to you or just simply ask them wats the differance between a proper enthusiast and a boy racer


    kev


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Marty McFly


    Have to agree with lightning on this one most boy racers drive cars like fiestas because they want a sports car but cant get insured afford to drive one instead they spend silly amounts of money trying to make the car look better but failing miserably, they dont tend to modify the engine, brakes etc.

    Plus no one said boy racers are always neccessarily dangerous they just drive annoying cars that with stupid exhausts that wake up the whole neighbourhood going ten mph.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭kev91


    ok there are alot of boy racers but why do i fall in to that category
    once you have an exhaust your put in that category of been a boy racer

    what track do u work at


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    kev91 wrote: »
    sorry but why is this a boy racer thing


    kev

    Ah now, it is pretty clear from the OP that he is talking about painting the brakes, not upgrading the braking system. Therefore this is clearly what I was referring to as a 'boy racer' action.
    I dont know how you could read it any other way tbh.
    A car enthusiast would laugh in the face of anyone who would paint brake calipers. They also wouldnt spend thousands of Euro on a car that will never see its money back. They would spend on mechanical upgrade first & foremost and they would only start with a suitable car, not a citroen saxo or similar.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭kev91


    mickdw wrote: »
    Ah now, it is pretty clear from the OP that he is talking about painting the brakes, not upgrading the braking system. Therefore this is clearly what I was referring to as a 'boy racer' action.
    I dont know how you could read it any other way tbh.
    A car enthusiast would laugh in the face of anyone who would paint brake calipers.

    i also said under that in the same post are you talking about boy racers or car enthusiasts

    Originally Posted by kev91 viewpost.gif
    sorry but why is this a boy racer thing
    and are you talking about boy racers in there mothers car or the car enthusiasts in there own cars that have spent thousands on improving the car


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I am talking about anyone who would paint the brake calipers. Maybe thats the 17 year old in mothers fiesta or maybe it the guy who thinks he is an enthusiast cause he has spent a few grand on wheels, a body kit & some sounds which in many cases seriously devalue the car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,592 ✭✭✭tossy


    Painting your brake calipers will only highlight how small your brakes are and the will look worse,especially if you have big alloys! If you want fancy looking calipers get these,i have a set on my car and love them!

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Brembo-Style-Brake-Caliper-Cover-Front-Rear-4-PCS_W0QQitemZ120542578006QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c10e5c556#ht_2723wt_1165


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,801 ✭✭✭✭Gary ITR


    tossy wrote: »
    Painting your brake calipers will only highlight how small your brakes are and the will look worse,especially if you have big alloys! If you want fancy looking calipers get these,i have a set on my car and love them!

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Brembo-Style-Brake-Caliper-Cover-Front-Rear-4-PCS_W0QQitemZ120542578006QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c10e5c556#ht_2723wt_1165


    I'd say they look bitchin on your Bora


  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭kev91


    im sorry for all the ot posts
    with seen that last post i have to go

    i will continue to talk about this in another thread or in pms but not in this thread anymore


    kev


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,592 ✭✭✭tossy


    Onkle wrote: »
    I'd say they look bitchin on your Bora

    Bitchin! i like that description.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    tossy wrote: »
    Painting your brake calipers will only highlight how small your brakes are and the will look worse,especially if you have big alloys! If you want fancy looking calipers get these,i have a set on my car and love them!

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Brembo-Style-Brake-Caliper-Cover-Front-Rear-4-PCS_W0QQitemZ120542578006QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c10e5c556#ht_2723wt_1165

    funny-pictures-cat-thinks-he-is-better-than-you.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,592 ✭✭✭tossy


    Tigger wrote: »

    :D

    I was taking the piss,my original point still stands.Don't paint standard calipers the will look crap behind big alloy wheels,i know because i did it on an old golf,as soon as i put the wheels back on i regretted it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i know :cool:

    i was joining in

    this is my favorite look tho

    how-much-hp-does-this-add.jpg

    there really is everything on the net


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    There really is nothing worse than painting your drum brakes.

    To be honest I think that all sliding calipers look a bit **** painted, unless they are proper opposed piston jobies I think its just highlighting the fact that they are a bit crap!

    And as for the Brembo caliper implants :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Tigger wrote: »
    i know :cool:

    i was joining in

    this is my favorite look tho

    how-much-hp-does-this-add.jpg

    there really is everything on the net

    Brilliant - Could only be improved by these!:

    picture.php?albumid=63&pictureid=5552


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    mickdw wrote: »
    A car enthusiast would laugh in the face of anyone who would paint brake calipers. They also wouldnt spend thousands of Euro on a car that will never see its money back. They would spend on mechanical upgrade first & foremost and they would only start with a suitable car, not a citroen saxo or similar.

    It doesnt matter what car you upgrade you will never see your money back whether its a fiesta or a cossie. In some cases like the cossie upgrading the car actually devalues it.

    I upgraded the brakes on my old honda crx with honda legend 2 pot calipers. They were filthy when i bought them so i reconditioned them with new seals and spray painted them gold while i was at it. They looked fantastic under 15" wheels with the 282mm disks.

    I recently reconditioned my brembo calipers as the lacquer was peeling off them, people who are into cars are into maintaining their car in every way not just upgrading their performance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    Theres nothing wrong with modifying/upgrading your car when done correctly.

    However, some of the above is the automotive equivalent of shoving a pair of socks inside your y fronts for dramatic effect.

    Makes you feel good, but everybody knows your secret ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,158 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Modern cars are engineered to a very specific standard, which is a fine balance between cost/performance/safety/durability/comfort. Obviously there's a very strong emphasis on saftety nowadays, so you can be assured that the braking systems aren't just the way they are for some arbitrary reason.

    Also rememeber that there's more to improved braking than just improved brakes - shocks, tyres, brake balance, weight, weight distribution, etc all comes into play.

    (I'm sure car enthusiasts know all this in any case...):pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    My car has 6 piston brakes, with 320mm drilled and grooved discs. It's only a MINI, and my calipers are black. Why black? Well, if someone knows about brakes, the size of the caliper and discs will do the talking. If I see little 200mm standard discs, and single piston calipers painted red, I just think - the guy wants looks, not safety or performance.

    Those who know, don't need to show.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,854 ✭✭✭✭MetzgerMeister


    How does one control the fluid from the brake line when taking the calliper off???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    My car has 6 piston brakes, with 320mm drilled and grooved discs. It's only a MINI, and my calipers are black. Why black? Well, if someone knows about brakes, the size of the caliper and discs will do the talking. If I see little 200mm standard discs, and single piston calipers painted red, I just think - the guy wants looks, not safety or performance.
    Those who know, don't need to show.

    Is there really something wrong with that though at the end of the day? A 1.4L toyota corolla with 242mm disks hardly needs anything more substantial than that and painting the calipers is a nice upgrade over the rusty/brown colour they end up. Its definitely way down the list of fashion faux pas's car enthusiasts end up with.

    Oh and if you really werent into the attention you would have left off the drilled and grooved disks and got for standard blanks - they really make feeck all difference on a road car. We all care about looks at the end of the day :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    cpoh1 wrote: »
    Is there really something wrong with that though at the end of the day?

    Its just the whole image it conveys. Everytime I see painted calipers, they're always on a ****box. Never on a family car, or an SUV, or a MPV, it's always some skanger hatch with a big noisy exhaust. And that's the problem. It's always about show, no go, and in the odd occassion when someone does them on a normal car, they're pigeonholed into the boy racer category even if their intentions were purely asthethic.
    Oh and if you really werent into the attention you would have left off the drilled and grooved disks and got for standard blanks - they really make feeck all difference on a road car. We all care about looks at the end of the day :D

    Well no. Not really. They do make a difference on a road car, and if you've ever had some fun in the Kerry mountains early in the mornning, you'd know how easy it is to cook brakes with a few fast roads one after another. Having drilled and grooved discs are a must once you start using 6 piston calipers. The amount of heat and brake dust generated by 6 pistons needs to be removed, or they are as useful as single piston calipers after a few corners. And it may be a 'road car', but it came second at Silverstone during the MINI United Festival at one of the track sessions - purely because of the brakes, other cars had similar power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    My car has 6 piston brakes... ...not safety or performance.
    This is where I'm skeptical. I can lock up the front wheels on my car by just stomping on the brake pedal hard enough. It really requires very little effort - my wife could probably also do it with ease. That's with single piston calipers.

    Is there any benefit to bigger brakes/more pistons on a small light car when the ones you have are already able to lock up on demand?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    Its just the whole image it conveys. Everytime I see painted calipers, they're always on a ****box. Never on a family car, or an SUV, or a MPV, it's always some skanger hatch with a big noisy exhaust. And that's the problem. It's always about show, no go, and in the odd occassion when someone does them on a normal car, they're pigeonholed into the boy racer category even if their intentions were purely asthethic.



    Well no. Not really. They do make a difference on a road car, and if you've ever had some fun in the Kerry mountains early in the mornning, you'd know how easy it is to cook brakes with a few fast roads one after another. Having drilled and grooved discs are a must once you start using 6 piston calipers. The amount of heat and brake dust generated by 6 pistons needs to be removed, or they are as useful as single piston calipers after a few corners. And it may be a 'road car', but it came second at Silverstone during the MINI United Festival at one of the track sessions - purely because of the brakes, other cars had similar power.


    Fair enough on the image thing, i must say ive never really noticed it myself. Ive seen quite a few newer lukewarm hatches/saloons like the golf gti with painted calipers either from the factory or diy and they look well

    Whatever about a track car your brakes should never get hot enough on the road to get the benefit from drilled brakes and the cooling they offer, there really is no place for that type of driving on public roads and youy need to slow down if they are and thats coming from someone who has a 380whp skyline as a weekend car and a modified dc5 integra. Grooves are fine but i would be looking at what pads im running if i am having a problem with dust, how many pots you have is irrelevant in that sense. My mintex m1155's are a bitch for dust but its got nothing to do with my 8 pot front calipers! Even so brake dust has never been a factor for me in reducing braking performance, more an inconvenience and possible problem of corroding my alloys. Id be pretty confident that standard rotors with no grooves or holes will perform at elast to 95% the ability of drilled and grooved disks without the worry of cracking/warping the disks depending on the quality. Congrats on the silverstone reault by the way, very impressive. :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    JHMEG wrote: »
    This is where I'm skeptical. I can lock up the front wheels on my car by just stomping on the brake pedal hard enough. It really requires very little effort - my wife could probably also do it with ease. That's with single piston calipers.

    Is there any benefit to bigger brakes/more pistons on a small light car when the ones you have are already able to lock up on demand?

    You don't have ABS?

    Manufacturers sell BBKs, or Big Brake Kits. MINI do the JCW kit (4 piston 317mm setup from Brembo). Other manufacturers have their kits too. Otherwise, why would a lightweight car like an M3 with its carbon roof need big brakes. It weighs roughly around the same as a normal 320d :)

    Its nearly the first upgrade anyone performs when taking their car out on a track, and its proven to reduce lap times. My stopping distance (And I've tested it in the MINI, with the standard kit, and the Wilwood 6 piston kit) is nearly halved from 60mph. They're so good now, you nearly feel you're going to go out through the windscreen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    cpoh1 wrote: »
    Whatever about a track car your brakes should never get hot enough on the road to get the benefit from drilled brakes and the cooling they offer, there really is no place for that type of driving on public roads and youy need to slow down if they are and thats coming from someone who has a 380whp skyline as a weekend car and a modified dc5 integra.

    There are a few incredible roads in Kerry which will cook your brakes, within legal limits. The road down from Valentia to the coast is a steep downhill drive, with plenty of twists and turns. Give it any bit of gusto, and you'll feel brake fade at the end.

    It's not the point though, and I'm not going to get into a big debate about how I drive, or where, or how anyone else drives for that matter. If I decide I want a BBK setup for more performance and safety, surely it's a better thing than putting more and more power under the bonnet and having no way to haul it up?
    Id be pretty confident that standard rotors with no grooves or holes will perform at elast to 95% the ability of drilled and grooved disks without the worry of cracking/warping the disks depending on the quality.

    If that's the case, why then does everyone fitting BBKs always go with drilled and grooved? There is a proven reduction in brake dust, and heat with these. And sure they're not a whole lot more expensive than standard discs either, so it makes sense to get them. My 2 320mm discs are less than 200 euro for the pair.
    Congrats on the silverstone reault by the way, very impressive. :cool:

    Cheers, just wish there were silverware to prove it. Damn open track sessions :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    JHMEG wrote: »
    This is where I'm skeptical. I can lock up the front wheels on my car by just stomping on the brake pedal hard enough. It really requires very little effort - my wife could probably also do it with ease. That's with single piston calipers.

    Is there any benefit to bigger brakes/more pistons on a small light car when the ones you have are already able to lock up on demand?


    The maximum deceleration is limited by the frictional force between the tyre and the road. Therefore, for a given tyre compound and size, and assuming a uniform road surface there is only so quickly you can stop regardless of the type of brake used.

    The aim is to decelerate the vehicle whilst mantaining contact with the road, as the coefficient of friction is higher when the two surfaces interacting are static relative to each other i.e. the car is not skidding. (This is the whole point of ABS). A real world example is pushing something very heavy. Its often v hard to get it moving initially but once the static friction is exceeded and it starts moving it becomes easier as the frictional force is reduced.

    So, a brake will be specced so that it can provide this max level of braking force. If you can brake on a dry road and activate your ABS, then there are no brakes in the world that will stop you any quicker unless changed in conjunction with a raft of other stuff.

    The challenge is to eliminate brake fade, so that maximum braking force can be applied multiple times without degredation.

    The larger the vehicle, the more kinetic energy to convert to heat energy so the larger the discs. The larger the discs, the larger the pads!

    Larger pads need more pistons for a uniform pressure distribution across the pad to prevent taper wear.

    I've to go now :D but if I havent bored anyone to death I can continue this after lunch!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Otherwise, why would a lightweight car like an M3 with its carbon roof need big brakes. It weighs roughly around the same as a normal 320d :)
    Does it tho? Or is it all part of the packaging/marketing strategy? Would it be taken seriously unless it had loads of pots in brightly coloured calipers? I'd imagine a 320d needs twin pot calipers as it'd be heavy enough.

    Maybe the standard brakes aren't up to it on the MINI, but locking up on demand is a sign your single pots are doing just fine, imo.

    (I have ABS. Hard braking to a stop will result in several small chirps from the tyres, and end in a short skid as ABS stops interfering below 20km/h)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    Just to clarify, I genuinely do have a shorter stopping distance on my MINI. I'm not sure after reading Mr Davids post why though. :confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    BTW ned, according to wikipedia the current M3 weighs 1680 Kg. I don't think I'd class that as lightweight. It's two and a half times the weight of an Elise, and half a tonne heavier than my 4-door family saloon!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    JHMEG wrote: »
    This is where I'm skeptical. I can lock up the front wheels on my car by just stomping on the brake pedal hard enough. It really requires very little effort - my wife could probably also do it with ease. That's with single piston calipers.

    Is there any benefit to bigger brakes/more pistons on a small light car when the ones you have are already able to lock up on demand?


    thats not how brakes work
    if you have abs the little bites that are taken are sharper and stronger with a bigger set up
    without abs you will have more feel and quicker response with bigger brakes

    brakes are not an on off switch

    you will get more benifit form a suspension upgrade and better pads than with big brakes and no suspension mods. suspension mods dosen't mean no longer being able to enter housing estates with speed ramps either


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    Here's my BBK setup.

    69.jpg

    The weird thing was the price. Anyone considering something like this, don't bother buying it here, or anywhere in Europe. This setup, from the states came in at less than 800 euro. Closest thing I could get here was a 4 piston setup for a grand and a half.

    Sorry for the pic size :/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭neilthefunkeone


    tossy wrote: »
    Painting your brake calipers will only highlight how small your brakes are and the will look worse,especially if you have big alloys! If you want fancy looking calipers get these,i have a set on my car and love them!

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Brembo-Style-Brake-Caliper-Cover-Front-Rear-4-PCS_W0QQitemZ120542578006QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c10e5c556#ht_2723wt_1165

    Yeah thats the spirit.. Advertise your rocking brembos when actually its all oem!!!

    Do you have your brembo and Bilstein decals down your door!!!;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Mr.David wrote: »
    If you can brake on a dry road and activate your ABS, then there are no brakes in the world that will stop you any quicker unless changed in conjunction with a raft of other stuff.!

    I dont buy that. I know the point you are making re the grip being dependant on the tyre & road surface but a bigger brake setup will be working to such a lessor % of its overall ability that it will offer a much stronger initial braking phase, scrubing off the top end speed much faster & with less heating problems etc leading to shorter braking distance. It may feel as though the standard brakes can activate the abs instantly but its not quite instant.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    mickdw wrote: »
    I dont buy that. I know the point you are making re the grip being dependant on the tyre & road surface but a bigger brake setup will be working to such a lessor % of its overall ability that it will offer a much stronger initial braking phase, scrubing off the top end speed much faster & with less heating problems etc leading to shorter braking distance. It may feel as though the standard brakes can activate the abs instantly but its not quite instant.
    Do brakes offer their best from cold? Or, like tyres, do they need a bit of heat in them for maximum efficiency?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    They do need to be warmed up, they have a optimal temperature.
    So the ideal is brakes that warm up quickly but still resist fade? Would a bigger setup warm up as quickly as a smaller one under hard braking?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    This is very interesting.

    Anan1, yes temperature is very important, the friction coefficient of different pad material compounds is dynamic and changes wrt temp. Some compounds are designed to operate well at low speeds where as others become more effective at higher temps resulting in the driver feeling encouraged to press on. Classic example of this is the Ferrodo DS 2500.

    Wrt grooves/cross drilling, it makes practically no difference. Its main justification is gassing - trapping air/gas between the pad and the disc. The slots reduce this. On the other hand, by drilling slot/grooves you have reduced the mass and thermal capacity of the disc. We've done lots of testing on this and the difference is very specific to the type of braking cycle and is of limited appeal. Its mainly cosmetic.

    A brake disc is simply a device used to convert energy from one form to another (kinetic to heat).

    People are touching on brake feel, this is something that is important. It creates confidence in the system and when pedal feel is poor it really destroys your ability to push on in a car. It is influenced by a number of things such as stiffness - how much does the caliper deflect under the reactive force when you brake? Deflection = fluid consumption = pedal travel. Same theory for the brake lines.

    Another interesting point, is that people often over spec brakes for the vehicle. You can just as easily end up with discs that are TOO BIG as too small. You will end up with cold wear issues on the pads, and the discs and pads will not get into the temp range where they operate most effectively.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    Here's a spec from a pad we were looking at using recently:

    Cold 0.36RS4-2-1.gif

    At 100°C 0.38
    At 300°C 0.42
    Max at (@ 500°C)0.45
    Constant working temperature: 300 – 500°C
    Max temperature for short period only: 550°C

    You can see the friction coeff rises with increasing temperature up to a max of 500C. If you over spec your discs and pads, you will never reach this operating temp on a track. Look at an F1 car - the discs are tiny! Why? Because the car is light.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Here's my BBK setup.
    Looks the part. Did that require changing the master cylinder for a bigger one (more juice to pump)?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Mr.David


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Nice one you save me typing something similar. Do you work for a well known braking sytem manufacturer?

    Work for Jaguar (as a chassis design engineer).

    Been working (for the last yr or so) on an all new high performance braking system for a car due out June 2011. Its a really big brake, not really sure how much I can divulge but the discs are 400mm :)

    Don't tell anyone i told you!


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its just the whole image it conveys. Everytime I see painted calipers, they're always on a ****box. ..........It's always about show, no go, and in the odd occassion when someone does them on a normal car, they're pigeonholed into the boy racer category even if their intentions were purely asthethic.

    Surely a chap in a Bini isn't bothered about image, also you should be sick of being pigeon holed into a category. You're obviously not a blond hotty with a great pair of t1ts :) Nor a grandad sucking on werthers original (iirc you have a 75 too)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    Rofl, your a bad bad man James!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭Muckie


    You sure know your stuff Mr.David. Kudos.
    Just wondering did the OP tune out :pac: or what colour
    if any did he paint he's calipers with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭Tefral


    I painted the calipers on my Integra red on the front because i have gunmetal grey wheels (which are mostly black with brake dust) This was to match the red seats etc.

    8 laps around mondello, i pulled in and smoke was comming out, the paint had melted away ha ha.

    The brakes on my Teg are twin piston and are very good. Im sure id get better lap times out of it but i dont do trackdays every weekend so i see no point.

    OP theres two ways to look at this, if you are just painting them for a road car that wont be going on track

    1. Go to halfords and get a tin of BMW brilliant red paint in a spray can and clear laquer.
    2. Take off your wheel and mask off the disk and brake line.
    3. Take a wire brush and scrub the calliper with it.
    4. Wash the caliper with a bit of thinners and rub with a cloth. Leave dry
    5. Get a bowl of hot (not boiling) water and pot the tins in while your waiting for the thinners to dry. This warms the paint making it sticky.
    6. Spray the caliper with the red paint sparingly. Leave dry and repeat this about 5 times for an even coat.
    7. Coat with a few coats of the laquer leave dry.
    8. Take off the masking tape and disk cover and ensure theres no paint on the surface of the disk
    9. Pop on your wheel and be happy with your work.

    If you do, do trackdays dont bother with the halfords can, your gonna need heat resistant paint as it will just burn off like what happened me.

    You could also take off the caliper and paint it with red hammerite or something but the finish isnt as smooth and also seeing as its probably just for asthetics theres no point getting the back part of the caliper where you wont see anyway

    Before
    DSC00134.jpg
    DSC00135.jpg

    After
    DSC00141.jpg
    DSC00142.jpg
    DSC00140.jpg
    DSC00143.jpg
    DSC00144.jpg


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