Guinness Dark Lager

IRLConor

I haven't seen any description of what this actually is and a quick skim over their website shows nothing. "Dark Lager" could be pretty much anything TBH. Does anyone have any idea what it might be? A German-style Dunkel/Schwarzbier maybe?

If it turns out to be decent, I hope it doesn't go the way of Breo.

pa990

where did u hear about it?

BeerNut

Story.

IRLConor wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea what it might be? A German-style Dunkel/Schwarzbier maybe?

Yeah, German schwarzbier is one kind of dark lager. It's quite a popular style in the Czech Republic too -- you see Budvar Dark over here a fair bit, and there's another one on tap in the Czech Inn. BrewDog in Scotland make an excellent one called Zeitgeist.

IRLConor wrote: »

If it turns out to be decent, I hope it doesn't go the way of Breo.

It's a long time since Guinness/Diageo have had a successful Guinness-branded product. I think they would have been wise to brand it completely different rather than have Guinness drinkers say "I'm not switching and don't interfere with my pint" while non-Guinness drinkers say "Ewww, Guinness".

neilthefunkeone

Testing it in the north first.. then selected offies and pubs down here later..

If its like a Dunkel ill be all over it!!!!!

Meeja Ireland

It's not a hopeful sign that the MD can only muster up the the most witless adspeak about it: "With this lager, the master brewers of Guinness have built upon 250 years of rich brewing heritage to take lager enjoyment to a new level."

He could be talking about anything.

IRLConor

pa990 wrote: »

where did u hear about it?

Twitter.

BeerNut wrote: »

It's a long time since Guinness/Diageo have had a successful Guinness-branded product. I think they would have been wise to brand it completely different rather than have Guinness drinkers say "I'm not switching and don't interfere with my pint" while non-Guinness drinkers say "Ewww, Guinness".

Yep, I remember when Breo was around my first impression was "White Guinness? Sounds dodgy!" rather than "Widely distributed weissbier on tap? Sign me up!"

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Testing it in the north first.. then selected offies and pubs down here later..

If its like a Dunkel ill be all over it!!!!!

It it's like a good Dunkel I'll be all over it too, especially if it's widely distributed. In most pubs my choice is limited to Guinness or perhaps a bottle of Erdinger. It's not as bad as some places in the world, at least I can always count on there being a pint of Guinness available, but I would like more choice of beer beyond GBH.

oblivious

IRLConor wrote: »

A German-style Dunkel/Schwarzbier maybe?

I would be really surprised if was or a harp lager with black food coloring. Good Dunkel/Schwarzbier really on multi decoction mashing regimes/ long cool lagering an that's something Diageo don't do

But only taste test will tell

IRLConor wrote: »

If it turns out to be decent, I hope it doesn't go the way of Breo.

Depends on weather if you believe Breo was that good, an not a weird attempt at pesudo Belgian citrus infusion

BeerNut

IRLConor wrote: »

but I would like more choice of beer beyond GBH.

If you're in Dublin (or Cork or Galway) there is a wealth of beer choice available. You just have to pick your pubs.

If you continue drinking the same old same old you end up reinforcing the Big Two's belief that this is all drinkers really want.

oblivious

Its will be limited to Northern Ireland for the next six to nine months as a test market

az2wp0sye65487

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0323/breaking12.html?via=mr

Guinness is launching a black lager in Northern Ireland as the company hopes to improve sales in an increasingly difficult trading environment.

Aimed at a younger market, the drink will come in 330ml bottles and will go on sale at selected pubs and off-licences, priced similarly to other premium lagers.

Parent company Diageo will be anxious the drink — called Guinness Black Lager — doesn’t suffer the same fate as other “innovations” such as Breo and Guinnes Light that struggled in the shadow of the black stuff’s coveted brand image.

Mr John Kennedy, Diageo’s managing director, said the new beer has a unique taste which is an evolution in lager making.

“With this lager, the master brewers of Guinness have built upon 250 years of rich brewing heritage to take lager enjoyment to a new level." he said.

"Guinness Black Lager represents a real evolution in the lager category, offering consumers greater choice".

Guinness is planning to test the 4.5 per cent proof beer in the Northern market over a period of five to nine months.

An increasingly difficult trading environment has seen off-licence and pub sales fall significantly in recent years and thousands have lost their jobs in the sector as a result.

A report published yesterday found Ireland's per capital alcohol consumption fell by 9.6 per cent in 2009 and is now 21 per cent below an all-time peak in 2001.

Some 15,000 jobs have been lost in the last year alone and the Drinks Industry Group of Ireland has warned of a further 5 per cent fall in volume sales this year, with a further knock-on effect for jobs.

I'd like to give this a try, and see for myself before shooting it down completely. But I fear it's going to be sh**e!!!

What do y'all think?

az2wp0sye65487

Apologies,

I didn't see this thread until now. I've just started a thread on it here too.

wicklowwonder

what market share do they hope to capture?

IRLConor

oblivious wrote: »

I would be really surprised if was or a harp lager with black food coloring. Good Dunkel/Schwarzbier really on multi decoction mashing regimes/ long cool lagering an that's something Diageo don't do

But only taste test will tell

Indeed. Maybe I'm just asking too much from them.

oblivious wrote: »

Depends on weather if you believe Breo was that good, an not a weird attempt at pesudo Belgian citrus infusion

There was only a very narrow window between me being able to get served in pubs and Breo being pulled so I don't entirely trust my ability to appreciate beer back then!

BeerNut wrote: »

If you're in Dublin (or Cork or Galway) there is a wealth of beer choice available. You just have to pick your pubs.

I live and work in Dublin city centre, so it's true I do have a choice of pubs. I'd normally hit a Porterhouse or the Bull & Castle (three decent selections within ~15 mins walk of home - spoilt or what!) but sometimes I'm not the one choosing the pub.

seamus

I'm presuming that this differs from the fizzy extra stout that comes in the old-style bottles.

As BeerNut and IrlConor say, I think branding could be their downfall. "Guinness" itself represents a specific product or at most a group of products which are barely different from eachother. "Guinness", to guinness drinkers doesn't represent a brewery or a trusted company. Fizzy lager-guinness sounds disgusting. But I'll taste it and compare it to my Guinness. And it'll fail. However, a Dunkel-ilk from Diageo, I can give it a whirl without any preconceptions.

oblivious

IRLConor wrote: »

Indeed. Maybe I'm just asking too much from them.

Who know it may have gotten a special release right!

IRLConor wrote: »

There was only a very narrow window between me being able to get served in pubs and Breo being pulled so I don't entirely trust my ability to appreciate beer back then!

Slightly larger window for me;)

IRLConor wrote: »

I'd normally hit a Porterhouse or the Bull & Castle (three decent selections within ~15 mins walk of home - spoilt or what!) but sometimes I'm not the one choosing the pub.

Luckly you!

oblivious

There heard about it, maybe they could be merged?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055862483

Meeja Ireland

BeerNut wrote: »

It's a long time since Guinness/Diageo have had a successful Guinness-branded product. I think they would have been wise to brand it completely different rather than have Guinness drinkers say "I'm not switching and don't interfere with my pint" while non-Guinness drinkers say "Ewww, Guinness".

That sounds exactly right.

I've had Budvar Dark, however, and I liked it a lot. Maybe this stuff will be similar.

norrie rugger

uses roasted barley for the colour, same as guinness.

Cold filtered/brewed using lager yeast

BeerNut

norrie rugger wrote: »

Cold filtered

Pretty much every beer is cold filtered, except the ones which are deliberately cloudy. It's one of those standard brewing practices marketeers like to throw out in the copy to make their beer seem different.

norrie rugger

BeerNut wrote: »

Pretty much every beer is cold filtered, except the ones which are deliberately cloudy. It's one of those standard brewing practices marketeers like to throw out in the copy to make their beer seem different.

Filtered at a colder temp than Guinness stout then also seems to be brewed colder also

BeerNut

norrie rugger wrote: »

Filtered at a colder temp than Guinness stout then

Huh? Why? Filtering is filtering: why do it in a less efficient way?

norrie rugger wrote: »

also seems to be brewed colder also

And this means what? 'Cos it sounds to me like a massive clunking failure on the part of the label designer to understand the basic science of brewing. Have you inside information?

_blank_

I wonder if it's a Schwarzbier, if it is, I hope it comes down here, because they are really delicious.

In fact, my favourite beer in the world is a black beer, made, and only available, in NZ



Sam Adams do a passable impression, and is available here sometimes. Sam Adams Black Lager

thelynchfella

norrie rugger wrote: »

also seems to be brewed colder also

brewing as in steeping or the whole process?

I presume Guinness stout uses Ale yeast so the lager would have to be brewed at a lower temp surely

BeerNut

thelynchfella wrote: »

I presume Guinness stout uses Ale yeast so the lager would have to be brewed at a lower temp surely

Depends on whether you count fermenting as "brewing" or not. So it's either a tautology or an untruth, depending.

Ham'nd'egger

I had a Diageo rep in my taxi last week and she was telling me about this new brew. It's been developed/brewed from new but other than that she didn't really describe it well to me other than the usual buzz words; I held her back from using the flip chart as we drove along

The two reasons why I feel it's doomed was her use of the phrase "refreshing" towards this product (Many people who try beers as products to savour or to be genuinely nice never drink a beer to be "refreshing", it's almost a kiss of death in a Carvills or Redmonds) and the small matter of Guinness being perceived by potential drinkers as fiddling with it's product yet again and putting drinkers off. Coldflow, Light and Breo did more harm to Guinness sales and status not because they were inferior products (They were) but they scream "Old Guinness is broke or wrong" to potential customers who end up getting confused or pissed off with what they perceive as pale imitations.

brianthebard

What's a dark lager? I was under the impression that the length of time spent roasting the grain was what separated a stout/porter from a lager. [edit; nm, des' link pretty much clears everything up.]

Secondly, if this is a dunkel-like beer as suggested, will it actually be popular in Ireland? I have never noticed a huge demand for dunkel judging by the shelves in dunnes and offies, or regular pubs.

BeerNut

brianthebard wrote: »

Secondly, if this is a dunkel-like beer as suggested, will it actually be popular in Ireland?

Depends on how well it's marketed: that's what decides if a beer is going to succeed in Ireland or not.

I'll stick my neck out and say this might work: a by-the-neck cold, crisp, lager with a slight roasty dryness to it. But then I really like dark lager. I'd be very interested to taste it for comparison's sake.

shivs

Black Harp????

johnnyskeleton

...hopes to improve sales in an increasingly difficult trading environment.

Aimed at a younger market, the drink will come in 330ml bottles and will go on sale at selected pubs and off-licences, priced similarly to other premium lagers.

There's the problem right there - in a recession introducing a premium (i.e. highly priced) bottled beer sounds like a very bad idea, as does introducing a product aimed at the people who have been hardest hit in terms of jobs etc (I assume aimed at a younger market means means the 18-30 year old men).

BeerNut

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

in a recession introducing a premium (i.e. highly priced) bottled beer sounds like a very bad idea

I suppose they think the brand will carry them. In reality it may mean 50p a bottle in six months' time -- excellent!

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

as does introducing a product aimed at the people who have been hardest hit in terms of jobs etc

I'd say their homework has shown that those people always have enough money for drink.

Ronan|Raven

They should just sell the wonderful black beer Bernard.