New Import Duty/VAT Thread. Read Post #1 for Rules Updated 10/9/2024

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338136#Comment_118338136

There shouldn't be any extra charges since you've paid the customs upfront. If it were An Post I wouldn't trust them not to try and charge you again but DHL are well setup for this. I did the same with something from a Singapore website with DHL earlier this year.

whiterebel

You would need to ask the seller. It sounds like they are paying all charges, but we can’t be sure from the information provided/

tiegan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338136#Comment_118338136

In theory, no you should not be liable for anything further as this would be DDP - duty delivery paid. But I have had issues with UPS still charging fees and having to go to the hassle of getting a refund. I usually used DPD and no extra charges. So you should be ok, but nothing surprises me now!

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189763#Comment_118189763

I thought Amazon UK had a minimum price not subject to fees

camz09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338722#Comment_118338722

I checked out their website for further information, idk of this adds any info:

"The goods will be imported on behalf of the consignee/ebuyer. The consignee authorizes *nameofretailer* to import the goods on his behalf. Further, the consignee/buyer agrees that *nameofretailer* may delegate the obligation to import the goods on his behalf to a subcontractor (e.g. customs broker). The consignee will pay the taxes & duties in addition to the purchase price of the goods."

I can also confirm they ship from MA, USA. I'm gonna email them to clarify, I guess. Thanks for all the help!

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336424#Comment_118336424

Show me some evidence.

Even a miniscule bit of evidence.

Go on, just a tiny bit.

[Snip]

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336424#Comment_118336424

None of this is proof. Don't post in this thread again and consider this a warning to stop trolling this forum

dxhound2005

The Revenue are very busy, not much chance of them being able to give individual attention to cases where the Computer says No.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/post-brexit-customs-on-packages-helps-revenue-post-85-per-cent-rise-in-duty-haul-1.4744975

Also a year ago An Post were handling 3.3 million parcels a week, and probably not much less now.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321219#Comment_118321219

Customs insist on full value declaration.

So if the price is £99 but reduced to £59 and free shipping, the customs value will be about £110 (£99 + value of "free shipping,")

tphase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349328#Comment_118349328

when it's An Posts computer saying no, it's not up to Revenue to deal with it

tphase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349368#Comment_118349368

a few years ago, I bought something on sale which included free shipping. Sender automatically put full value on the customs invoice, DHL charged me VAT on the value + shipping. I provided proof to Revenue of the actual amount I'd paid and got a refund. They may not accept the valuation provided in the customs declaration but if you can prove it's correct, you should be able to get any overpayment back

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349598#Comment_118349598

Rules were a lot different a few years ago.

The price before any discount is the price that is stated. Applies both to commercial and private imports.

A business supplier had 30% off certain lines and free shipping, but for customs they had to put price before discount and also state the cost of shipping.

Same with online stores such as Amazon

tphase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349627#Comment_118349627

a few years ago was in late 2018. good to know anyway.

whiterebel

I worked in Customs clearance many, many moons ago and you did clearance on full value, not taking into account discounts. Makes sense, otherwise you would have everyone showing 95% discounts. I don't think the rules have changed, and its quite clear on the revenue website that discounts are not taken into consideration. DHL were correct, someone in revenue got it wrong, I would think.

tphase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118350749#Comment_118350749

have you a link to that? I'm not turning up anything specific on the Revenue site.

whiterebel

It was quite clear on the website. But I can’t find it now either. The reason I knew about it was that I changed the 1st post in the Import VAT/Duty thread because it was being asked so often. It wasn’t that long ago that I added it, either. Since Brexit and 1st July they seem to have pruned a lot of pages.

dxhound2005

There is a lot of information here about valuations. Discounts are mentioned Page 11 onwards. But that is for traders.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/customs/valuation/valuation.pdf

I think Revenue would be asking why a one off purchase, if that is what is at question, would qualify for any sort of discount to an individual in Ireland.

tphase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118352168#Comment_118352168

saw that but can't find anything relevant in there

The question to me anyway, is why would Revenue not use the price paid as the basis for assessing VAT? They may question it but if you have proof of the amount paid and there's no question of you attempting to avoid tax by undervaluing the product, they should accept it. Whether or not you got a discount off the normal or recommended retail price is immaterial.

dxhound2005

They could question the nature of the discount being offered, as per 3.8 in the document. The seller is making things difficult for personal customers, by simply not declaring the intrinsic value plus the carriage costs being charged to the buyer. Why complicate that by showing some sort of unspecified discount? (If that is what applies in your case). Or on a separate matter claiming that there are no carriage costs, the so called Free Postage.

3.8 Are there any deductions allowable from the customs value?

Where the value is based on the invoice price, certain deductions are normally allowable provided the deductions are clearly distinguished in the documents produced.

Discounts. These can only be left out where they relate to the imported goods being valued and there is a valid contractual entitlement to the discount at the material time for valuation.

Discounts (such as contingency or retroactive discounts) related to previous importations cannot be claimed in full on the current importation.

(i) Quantity or trade discounts. The trader can leave out these discounts where earned. In other words, the price paid or payable net of these discounts is acceptable. If the trader is related to the seller the discounts will also be allowed if that relationship has not affected the price of the goods. Tax and Duty Manual Customs Manual on Valuation 12

(ii) Cash and early settlement discounts. The trader can also leave out these discounts on the following basis: a) when the payment reflecting the discount has been made at the time of entry to free circulation b) if the payment has not been made at the time of entry to free circulation, it will be allowed at the level declared provided it is a discount generally accepted within the trade sector concerned c) if the discount is higher than is generally accepted within the trade sector concerned it will only be accepted if you can demonstrate, where required, that the goods are actually sold at the price declared as the price actually paid or payable and the discount is still available at the time of entry to free circulation.

Care should be exercised where discounts other than these are shown on the invoice. Instances may occur where the term “discount” is used in a special sense or in respect of special considerations, e.g., compensation for defects in fulfilling earlier orders. In such cases and in all cases where a discount of a non-straightforward nature is claimed, the rationale underlying the discount should be examined.

tphase

the nature of discounts I'm thinking of would be sales and special offers - fairly normal consumer stuff, where the declared value would be the price paid and any discount would not be specified

Sapele

I've ordered several regular items from ebay and other uk sellers in the last several months, half of them have not arrived to me & i know they have been sent. One of them cost 7 euro got a letter from an post demanding 5 euro to release it. Not sure whats going on but at least i have info on one of the packages, the rest have just gone missing completely. All sent regular post. Something is definitely not quite right somewhere im thinking. Sending an item from the uk to ireland without tracking seems to have become very hit and miss lately.

silver2020

Plenty of English people think Ireland is still part of their empire and forget that UK is no longer in the EU even though they voted for Brexit themselves.

Anything coming from Britain has to have customs declaration with taric codes.

It all needs clearance. An post charge €3.50

The vat is on the landed price. Eg, price of item plus delivery cost

Applies to all items of all value

Markus Antonius

Regardless of what's going on here, I'm surprised the amount of people jumping in to defend An Post. They are one of the most despicable organisations going - dare I say the new Eir.

They whined and complained for years saying "email is killing the business, nobody is buying stamps anymore boohoo now we have to close branches". Now that they have the lion's share of the amazon package market they fleece everyone left, right and centre with zero customer service. 6.50 for Addresspal with the "customs fee" to make a nice round 10€ figure on top of the import duty itself is ridiculous.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491934#Comment_118491934

You could always set up an import service yourself.

They never complained about email. In fact they saw how parcels were going and invested heavily and unlike many national postal services, they are clear market leaders.

Local post offices have been loss makers for years and years. Same with small bank branches.

As for Amazon, maybe you don't read the news, but Amazon deliver a huge amount of their own parcels directly with their own substantial fleet of drivers. They also use DPD and ups for delivery.

But moan away.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118491968#Comment_118491968

Ha! You must be joking! Have you had your head under a rock for the last 20 years? They cried and wailed for years that the business was dying because of email and nobody sending letters anymore:

Mr Hogan said ComReg had failed to take into account An Post management's view of the grave position the company would be in without letter price increases and had instead sought to "micromanage" the company, although it had no such power.

ComReg had failed to recognise that the postal sector was unique, among regulated utilities, in that demand for its core product was in fundamental decline.

The internet is littered with articles about it

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/an-post-could-lose-70m-by-2010-court-told-1.1030906

I also like how you talk as though I'm an outlier in my disgust at them as an organisation. Well unfortunately for you the trustpilot reviews leave a lot to be desired:

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492002#Comment_118492002

Comical. The bad reviews are almost all people who think they can still import from Non EU countries without duty it fees.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118492078#Comment_118492078

You didnt even look at the reviews. I looked at every one from Jan 1st of this year (20+ reviews) and not a single one of them was related to a misunderstanding of the import duty requirements.

Bizarre how people shill hard for this farce of an organisation.

Caranica

Have you seen what the couriers are charging for customs admin? €10-15 are standard.

cormie

Absolutely ridiculous service from Address Pal/An Post. I'm still waiting on the one on the right hand side. Contacted them regarding customs as soon as they sent an email requesting payment for each item (like the same day). These orders are VAT exempt (whole foods) and I disputed the charges and their system does not like this. I've emailed them ( eCommChargeQuery@anpost.ie) 12 times about these two orders, sent them copies of invoices multiple times, hearing back from different agents who aren't aware of the email conversation in the body of the emails below etc. There's no phone number to ring, the An Post customer service say the people to speak to can only be contacted by email. This has happened with every address pal delivery I've had from these whole foods suppliers since Brexit, but never with this much of a delay so I'm guessing Christmas crippled them. They seriously need to put a procedure in place for when VAT is not applicable to orders. I've had other orders shipped, customs paid and delivered in the mean time, but this is taking the piss.

rock22

Cormie, can you not source the product within the EU?

I have switched all purchases from UK to EU suppliers where i can. I don't think , long-term, it is viable to continue buying from the UK

silver2020

Connie, considering you have been importing for many years I'm surprised you don't understand that whilst something maybe be exempt from vat, it still has to be cleared.

Also not all foods are exempt. It's a very specific list.

Did you even check what customs fees were asked for? Or just ignore it and think an argument with a customer service person would supercede customs?

Your supplier most likely was not very accurate with their description. "Food products" would not have been enough.

cormie

I'll definitely have to start looking at suppliers from mainland Europe instead alright, the previous times I'd ordered since Brexit it wasn't so bad, but this is ridiculous.

@silver2020 what's with all the assumptions? I do understand it has to be cleared of course, but there's clearly vast room for improvement with an post's system.

I know the foods shipped are exempt from VAT, they are orders from whole food suppliers and I know the customs fees asked for should not have been applied. I also haven't been arguing with anyone, there is no argument to be had.

The supplier provides a full list of what's in the package, and an post usually open it up anyway for inspection and it's very clear as to what's in the package.

This is simply a case of an post not having a system in place to efficiently deal with packages where import duties may not apply. As mentioned, I've had other orders shipped from the UK, long after these packages were shipped from the supplier, via address pal too, where customs have been applicable and I've paid customs and have received it already. So they can handle those efficiently but once they try charge customs on a package that shouldn't have customs charges applied, and this is disputed, there's clearly no efficient system in place to deal with this.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498531#Comment_118498531

Exactly, it's not a customs issue, it's an An Post issue with them hoarding packages in a warehouse somewhere. I paid the fee and had the package released only to have it retained by An Post for over a week.

68 lost souls

I got sent a free tshirt, socks diary etc from attending a community day event with a software company we use and they tried to charge me €9.19

I doubt Ill be receiving it as I am not going to pay for something that was free.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498932#Comment_118498932

Being free to you doesn't stop it having a value for import purposes. Same with gifts from non EU countries.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498887#Comment_118498887

But the problems an Post are having is because of the Customs/Duty changes brought about by Brexit and the volume of shipment from the UK. Getting a fee of €3.50 per item means that any package that is 'atypical' is likely to be delayed as they get on delivering the 99% typical package.

I have suffered the same way last year. But I am now avoiding UK , and other non-EU, suppliers where I can.

Ultimately, I think that it is sensible, where possible, to source from EU suppliers.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500375#Comment_118500375

I would agree with much of that but I continue to buy from UK sellers who are geared up for sale to the EU and do all the processes properly. I've had no delays in delivery at all.

68 lost souls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499960#Comment_118499960

But being marketing material not otherwise available for sale does make it exempt

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502778#Comment_118502778

Not from Import VAT, they're not.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498531#Comment_118498531

If it was foodstuffs I presume all the necessary paperwork was included including origin of ingredients.

Moving food from UK to EU is an utter nightmare.

Addresspal simply will not and should not have that expertise. I'm surprised that they have not excluded foodstuffs at this point

dollylama

I've had no issues with orders coming in from AliExpress or Wish despite the new VAT rule, brexit, shipping backlogs and what not. They still take anywhere from 4 weeks to 8 weeks to get here but I've about 30 orders in since last summer and all of them received. AliExpress collects Irish or EU VAT at checkout as far as I know and I've never needed to pay VAT or import fees on receipt. Granted, I don't think any orders were over the €150 or whatever threshold for import duty.

Orders from UK companies on the other hand... and particularly those shipped by Fedex. It's a sh*tshow

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503027#Comment_118503027

I'm not sure about origin being included on the invoice, it may be on the packaging of the foods, but it's never been an issue before, I think this is just a case of the Christmas backlog and not having a system in place to deal with disputed charges than what's actually in the order though.

I think it's just going to be easier to find a supplier in NL or DE or somewhere instead from here on!

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503057#Comment_118503057

Aliexpress made sure they had it all worked out in advance

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503057#Comment_118503057

That's because AliExpress has an entity in Europe and registered for VAT. Some GB companies don't even know that Ireland is another country. Seller, if not reaching thresholds, doesn't have to register for VAT in Ireland. Some must but they don't. Some are slow to learn how to fill in the export papers...

Fedex are bad but better than nothing. DPD no longer do shipping between ROI and GB, for example.

cormie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505595#Comment_118505595

DPD go the other way though? GB to ROI?

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500526#Comment_118500526

That doesn't change that fact that there's been massive issues since July with receiving orders from non EU countries. Look up Ebay forums, Amazon forums, Etsy forums, and you'll find large amount of sellers who tried to comply with everything, that still had all their packages sent back. I personally had 3 or 4 orders that were sent back, and I know of several places that outright stopped using AnPost and started using couriers instead. I've had so many issues with them, that I now use a UK address for all non EU mail, as I can't run a business dependent on AnPost.

dollylama

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506094#Comment_118506094

They do. I have a parcel coming from Amazon UK via DPD at the moment.. which is surprising as I haven't seen DPD on any Amazon or fulfilled by Amazon orders in some time

bertiebomber

i got a parcel from China i had thought it was from the UK, the cost of the item declared on the package was the original cost where i had bought a sale item for 75% less. customs emailed me to tell me they had it gave me a number to pay the tax on then i got another number i had to give to an post as otherwise they wouldnt deliver to me. so i did that i ended iup paying the original price in total so wasnt worth it . However i did contact the company in China and told them i was going to go to their facebook page and tell customers the name of the company was misleading and that they would be way over charged and guess what they asked me for the receipts of what i had paid to the customs and immediately refunded me. Win Win ME. Dont be afraid to call these companies out facebook has its uses !!

MOD - Moved as it was not relevant to the topic.

JoePirate

I received a parcel from amazon.co.uk yesterday. I thought all the customs were taken care of by Amazon but as it was a third party Amazon seller, which I guess doesn't include the customs, because I got a Customs Charge note in the postbox today from AnPost. But I've already got the parcel!

Anyone know what happens if I don't pay? I assume they'll send a bounty hunter or hit squad around eventually, but how long do I have?

tnegun

They won't come looking for it, I had the same with a 3rd a party seller on Amazon and had a proper fight with them and Amazon to be refunded the charges. It was odd as usually Customer Service refund instantly once there is an issue but this took weeks.