Gracie Combatives belts in irish BJJ competition

Sid_Justice

Ug Lee wrote: »

Sorry if it came across as disrespectful, its not my intention.

I wonder what the motivation is for blue belts starting gyms? If getting good at BJJ is the goal, why not stay as a blue belt student learning and training with other blue/purple belts under a brown/black belt instructor who you train with every week. As opposed to opening your own school as a blue belt, spending most of your time teaching people who are not as good as you and having a teacher in another country who you only see once or twice a year.

I am sure Irish BJJ is doing very good with medalists across Europe in 2010 however maybe with the Gracie University years ago the learning time could have been more efficient and Ireland could now have twice the medals.

you don't know what you're talking about and your posts reek of ignorance.

Ug Lee

Sid_Justice wrote: »

you don't know what you're talking about and your posts reek of ignorance.

That may be true but if you want to discuss anything specific with me, let me know.

Barry.Oglesby

Ug Lee wrote: »

Sorry if it came across as disrespectful, its not my intention.

I'm open to questions and I'll answer anything. however when people question my motivations, especially after I have ust answered them thoroughly, it comes across as disrespectful. So does this part:

I wonder what the motivation is for blue belts starting gyms? If getting good at BJJ is the goal, why not stay as a blue belt student learning and training with other blue/purple belts under a brown/black belt instructor who you train with every week. As opposed to opening your own school as a blue belt, spending most of your time teaching people who are not as good as you and having a teacher in another country who you only see once or twice a year.

If you're questioning my motives, if you think there's somehow some alterior motive for me coaching as a blue belt, then I think your best bet is to ask my students how happy or unhappy they are. We compete, go to other gyms, have had other coaches and players from other gyms in to coach, and have opened our mats to people on lots of occassions. I coach a young children's class which hasn't made a profit... ever. Now if my motivation was somehow sinister, why would I expose those who I train to this stuff? Why would I go out of my way to get others in? If you think it's for money, then you have a warped idea of how much money you think is in coaching.

I am sure Irish BJJ is doing very good with medalists across Europe in 2010 however maybe with the Gracie University years ago the learning time could have been more efficient and Ireland could now have twice the medals.

Well done. In one sentence you've managed to belittle the achievements of almost everybody involved in BJJ.

Also, as a very simple request, would you mind signing your posts with your real name? It's all very well slinging mud at "blue belt coaches" anonymously, but I wonder would you continue to do so without the carte blanche anonymity gives you?

I have no doubt you won't honour that request, but I won't be answering any further queries until you do.

Doug Cartel

Ug Lee wrote: »

I am sure Irish BJJ is doing very good with medalists across Europe in 2010 however maybe with the Gracie University years ago the learning time could have been more efficient and Ireland could now have twice the medals.

Gracie Jiu Jitsu (TM) do not encourage their students to compete, their moves are strictly for the deadly streets.

Ug Lee

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I'm open to questions and I'll answer anything. however when people question my motivations, especially after I have ust answered them thoroughly, it comes across as disrespectful. So does this part:

Just to make clear, I respect you and I respect what you do. I am just trying to flesh out some questions as I don't feel you answered me thoroughly. You didn't mind me doing the same with Niall Keane and I am sure Niall doesn't mind me doing the same with you. However remember that at the end of my discussion with Niall I freely admitted that he had the last word. I will probably do the same with you. I just like to challange arguments/ways of thinking.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

If you're questioning my motives, if you think there's somehow some alterior motive for me coaching as a blue belt, then I think your best bet is to ask my students how happy or unhappy they are. We compete, go to other gyms, have had other coaches and players from other gyms in to coach, and have opened our mats to people on lots of occassions. I coach a young children's class which hasn't made a profit... ever. Now if my motivation was somehow sinister, why would I expose those who I train to this stuff? Why would I go out of my way to get others in? If you think it's for money, then you have a warped idea of how much money you think is in coaching.

I think there is very little money in coaching and if you wanted to make money then you would have stayed teaching Taekwondo. I don't think there is anything sinister is your teaching. But you haven't answered my question which I think is a legitimate question. People are slagging the Gracie Garage guys for starting a training grouip while a white belt and not training under an existing school. I notice that some BJJ people in Ireland seem to do the same. They get to get to blue belt and then open a school. What is their motivation? Why not just stay training?

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Well done. In one sentence you've managed to belittle the achievements of almost everybody involved in BJJ.

I don't know how. Maybe you can tell me? You know that if you make a good point that I will acknowledge it.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Also, as a very simple request, would you mind signing your posts with your real name? It's all very well slinging mud at "blue belt coaches" anonymously, but I wonder would you continue to do so without the carte blanche anonymity gives you? I have no doubt you won't honour that request, but I won't be answering any further queries until you do.

Who I am only detracts from the debate and I am not mud slinging. I am only asking questions, none of which were directed at you personally.

yomchi

I think there is very little money in coaching and if you wanted to make money then you would have stayed teaching Taekwondo

LMAO... good one.

Barry.Oglesby

Ug Lee wrote: »

Who I am only detracts from the debate and I am not mud slinging. I am only asking questions, none of which were directed at you personally.

Perhaps I should register anonymously and that would enhance the debate even further then? No dice. Sign your posts and I'll answer you. I refuse to further discuss this with a username.

Sid_Justice

ug lee wrote:

People are slagging the Gracie Garage guys for starting a training grouip while a white belt and not training under an existing school. I notice that some BJJ people in Ireland seem to do the same. They get to get to blue belt and then open a school. What is their motivation? Why not just stay training?

I think the fundamental questions that started this thread are what's the difference between Gracie combatives and Brazilian jiujitsu and what's the difference between training in a gracie garage and training in a BJJ club. I think the guy above is trying to muddy the waters.

Firstly, Gracie combatives is primarily a business enterprise run by a small part of the Gracie family to use their trademark name to sell a product. Like all dodgy martial arts programmes it uses the popular news letter style advertisement to sell its self. This is an example website.

Diagnositic characteristics
It's a quick fix -

The Fastest way to Learn Gracie Jiu Jitsu Guaranteed.

It the use of meaningless adjectives -

devestating self defense system

It's exclusive -

Train at Ireland's only Gracie Combatives Centre.

Implies you'll be able to beat people up on the street quickly -

36 techniques - 23 Lessons - Reflex Development - Street Ready

What's my issue? All of these things are lies. It's not a particularly quick way to learn GJJ. It takes 10 years on average to get a black belt in Brasilian Jiujitsu. Gracie combatives has no evidence to suggest in the slightest it's even useful as a SD system. There are at least 2 GC centres. The concept of learning 36 techinques to make your street ready is bullshido mcdoju martial arts at its best.

Having said that, it's all just marketing, and in this world we live in of rip off merchants its to be expected, if people buy into this nonsense there's not a lot we can we do for them.

Here is an example of a Gracie garage. This guy teaches BJJ to children but he doesn't seem to have ever trained in BJJ under a real life coach. This is his testimonial from only last year. The issue is this guy is a mickey mouse martial arts teacher of JakDaeKiDo and WonHwaDo which are basically made up martial arts. He has decided he's qualified to teach BJJ , here is some small print from the Gracie Combatives website to show he isn't qualified.

www.gracieuniversity.com/ wrote:

GRACIE GARAGES ARE NOT ENDORSED, CONTROLLED, LICENSED, CERTIFIED OR INSPECTED BY THE GRACIE JIU JITSU ACADEMY OR ANY RELATED PERSONS OR ENTITIES. GRACIE GARAGES AND GRACIE GARAGE LEADERS ARE NOT SPONSORED, LICENSED, ENDORSED OR CERTIFIED BY THE GRACIE JIU JITSU ACADEMY OR ANY RELATED PERSONS OR ENTITIES.

Doing a Gracie Combatives course doesn't make you qualified to teach BJJ.

Some people want to run their own gym and that's fine. Some people have worked hard for a long time to get their grade in BJJ, whether it's blue belt (usually ~3 years) or black belt (10 years). All the bjj schools I know of in Ireland are part of a larger organisation (Revolution, Gracie Barra, SBG, Drysdale, Chris Brennan, etc.) which supervises their grades and advises their training.

As previous posters have said, most of these guys started training together and then spread out and opened their own gyms and expanded the sport. If they didn't, there would only be one location in Dublin to learn the sport and there would be only a fraction of people participating.

The Gracie garages aren't opening up in a BJJ vacuum, they're operating as an alternative to more established BJJ clubs. This isn't a problem for anyone, the problem is some of these guys are trying to make out that they are operating out of areas without BJJ clubs. There is no problem being self-taught or learning from videos, I just think it's a slow method when there are a range of different clubs to train in.

Some of the gracie garages seem like legit places for gangs of beginners to train together and if they think that's the best way for them to train that's none of my business. Just don't pretend it's the only way to train.

Ug Lee

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I think the fundamental questions that started this thread are what's the difference between Gracie combatives and Brazilian jiujitsu and what's the difference between training in a gracie garage and training in a BJJ club. I think the guy above is trying to muddy the waters.

Nope. The difference between Gracie Combatives and other BJJ has already been discussed. My point is that a skeptic could look at what BJJ teachers (with the exception of JK) has done and drawn negative conclusions using similiar justification that others have used against the Gracie Garage guys. You say to the Gracie Garage guys, "train with an existing teacher". A skeptic could say to various BJJ blue belt teachers, "stay training with a black belt until you get to a higher grade. "

EnjoyChoke

Ug Lee wrote: »

Nope. The difference between Gracie Combatives and other BJJ has already been discussed. My point is that a skeptic could look at what BJJ teachers (with the exception of JK) has done and drawn negative conclusions using similiar justification that others have used against the Gracie Garage guys. You say to the Gracie Garage guys, "train with an existing teacher". A skeptic could say to various BJJ blue belt teachers, "stay training with a black belt until you get to a higher grade. "

Rubbish. It's not practical in Ireland to expect the bulk of participants to train at one or two locations. Without the independent Blue belt coaches setting up (by and large excellent) training groups and gyms, the sport in this country would simply not have grown.
I have zero time for "Gracie Combatives" and "Gracie garages" which I think are cynical ploys to extract money with as little effort and measurement as possible.
I would rather have one good "Blue belt teacher" in the country than a hundred "Gracie Garages".

Your comment about Ireland having double the medalists if there was a "Gracie University" in the country is Ignorant and insulting.

Ug Lee

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Rubbish. It's not practical in Ireland to expect the bulk of participants to train at one or two locations.

Why not? If the aim of training in BJJ is to get good at BJJ then why not simply train under someone who is better than you. [/QUOTE]

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Without the independent Blue belt coaches setting up (by and large excellent) training groups and gyms, the sport in this country would simply not have grown.

Maybe, maybe not. Again, this goes back to my question, what is the motivation for training? All that time and energy getting a premises, advertising, teaching beginners when you could just train, train, train! Especially as a blue belt there is so much more to learn, why teach instead of train?

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

Your comment about Ireland having double the medalists if there was a "Gracie University" in the country is Ignorant and insulting.

A lot of people are getting VERY insulted. I only suggested it and I used the word "maybe". My point is that introducing a martial art to a country is a bit of a challange and the pioneers did what they could, watching videos, reading books, the odd seminar, etc and I feel they maximised their efforts and got good results.

However I think that "maybe" it might have been easier if they had a resource like Gracie University which is more structured than various videos. If it was easier and they still maximized their efforts then "maybe" the BJJ "might" be more successful in Ireland, successful being "maybe" more medalists, etc.

BobbyOLeary

Ug Lee wrote: »

Why not? If the aim of training in BJJ is to get good at BJJ then why not simply train under someone who is better than you.

Good point. The majority of blue belts in Ireland do this.


Maybe, maybe not. Again, this goes back to my question, what is the motivation for training? All that time and energy getting a premises, advertising, teaching beginners when you could just train, train, train! Especially as a blue belt there is so much more to learn, why teach instead of train?

Teaching BJJ is training BJJ. You learn a lot from teaching a group of people. Your techniques must be sound and you have to understand them very clearly to be able to answer questions. Again, it's obvious you don't understand BJJ or at least have little experience of it as anyone involved with the sport can tell you that a Blue Belt is capable of running a school.

In BJJ you have to roll with people better, worse and of the same level as you. Teaching allows this.

A lot of people are getting VERY insulted. I only suggested it and I used the word "maybe". My point is that introducing a martial art to a country is a bit of a challange and the pioneers did what they could, watching videos, reading books, the odd seminar, etc and I feel they maximised their efforts and got good results.

However I think that "maybe" it might have been easier if they had a resource like Gracie University which is more structured than various videos. If it was easier and they still maximized their efforts then "maybe" the BJJ "might" be more successful in Ireland, successful being "maybe" more medalists, etc.

You know exactly why this is annoying people so don't act all innocent about it. Oh and stop acting like a child and sign your name.

Couldn't be bothered multi-quoting.

Ug Lee

I am sure you get better at BJJ when teaching but if you want to maximise your ability at BJJ then I imagine the best thing to do is train rather than teach. No?

BobbyOLeary

Ug Lee wrote: »

I am sure you get better at BJJ when teaching but if you want to maximise your ability at BJJ then I imagine the best thing to do is train rather than teach. No?

Sign your name.

cletus

Ug Lee, are you aware that the Gracie Combatives course doesnt teach bjj or gjj. It teaches a set of (I think) 36 moves only, that are only designed, according to the bumfs, to deal with "th3 str33tz" Rorion Gracie actually expressly states that that this course wil ot be any good for sport bjj.

So overall, this course, had it been introduced earlier in Ireland, may have hindered progress of the sport.

Chris89

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Why not? If the aim of training in BJJ is to get good at BJJ then why not simply train under someone who is better than you.

Good point. The majority of blue belts in Ireland do this.

Ehm, no they definitely dont.

Signed,

Chris Leddy
21 years old
around 5 foot 9, brown hair

edit: oh wait, you mean they do train under people better than them. Well this is akward.

Dyr

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Sign your name.

Is there a requirement on boards to sign your name, or are you just acting the hard man?

BobbyOLeary

Chris89 wrote: »

Ehm, no they definitely dont.

edit: oh wait, you mean they do train under people better than them. Well this is akward.

I can't tell if you're serious or not. So the majority of blue belts in Ireland run a school? Or they train under a white belt? I can't really see where you're going with this?

Is there a requirement on boards to sign your name, or are you just acting the hard man?

Yep. I'm well 'ard me. No requirement no, it just seems that the people who come on here with "out-there" opinions tend to hide who they really are. It's the reason I have my real name on this (or did I fake this whole Bobby O'Leary backstory??). If you want to piss about on boards grand, if you want to engage in a discussion that is clearly agitating people then you should have the dignity to explain where you are coming from. This usually involves your name.

I disagree with the notion that a blue belt should just "train train train". This stunts the growth of BJJ in Ireland. If all the blue belts in Ireland were just training I would never have gotten an intro to this sport (first through O'Reilly and now Jim, both Blue Belts).

Dyr

if you want to engage in a discussion that is clearly agitating people then you should have the dignity to explain where you are coming from. This usually involves your name.

Really? Because there's plenty of forums here that have far more contentious and substantial debates than this one without anyone trying to take names.

Barry.Oglesby

Ug Lee wrote: »

Why not? If the aim of training in BJJ is to get good at BJJ then why not simply train under someone who is better than you.

Ignoring the fact that you have still failed to provide me with the common courtesy of telling me your name for just a moment, I'll once again reitterate my previous statement. If I wasn't able to begin a training group in BJJ, then I would never have been able to train. Also, and while I hate to blow my own trumpet, once I started coaching, a lot of people came along with me who would never have even contemplated BJJ. When we opened our first gym and expanded the BJJ, a lot of people who weren't able to train for geographical reasons came to the gym and trained and are still training.

If blues didn't take the bull by the horns and open BJJ gyms, then there would be one school in Belfast and one in Dublin. Everybody else opened a school as a blue. Actually scratch that I think they may have been opened by blues as well. I'm open to correction on that though, they may have had purple belts.

Maybe, maybe not. Again, this goes back to my question, what is the motivation for training? All that time and energy getting a premises, advertising, teaching beginners when you could just train, train, train! Especially as a blue belt there is so much more to learn, why teach instead of train?

You honestly can't have read my post. I HAD a gym, as in, already HAD a gym.

However I think that "maybe" it might have been easier if they had a resource like Gracie University which is more structured than various videos. If it was easier and they still maximized their efforts then "maybe" the BJJ "might" be more successful in Ireland, successful being "maybe" more medalists, etc.

I was also thinking that if Sonia O'Sullivan had run a bit faster she might have got a few more medals too. And when I meet her I'll tell her and use the word "maybe" so she can't possibly be offended.

Is there a requirement on boards to sign your name, or are you just acting the hard man?

The reason I asked the guy to sign his posts isn't so I can go visit him on his doorstep, it's because I think it's common courtesy when casting aspersions on someone's character (in this case questioning my "motivations" behind starting a BJJ class) to identify yourself. I'm the very same in person as I am on the internet (you can decide for yourself if that's a good thing) and nothing I say or type is anything I wouldn't say to your face. If Ug Lee is who I've been told he is (and I really don't know if he is) then we've met, and talked and nothing like this has ever come up. Quite the opposite in fact. That sentence might be null and void mind you as I've only been told someone's pretty good idea of who he is.

BobbyOLeary

Bambi wrote: »

Really? Because there's plenty of forums here that have far more contentious and substantial debates than this one without anyone trying to take names.

Fair enough maybe they do. I don't partake in those debates, for debates I do partake in I like to know who I'm talking to. Some people don't but I suppose horses for courses. I'm out until I'm discussing this with a real person.

Ug Lee

This is deadly! :-)

Chris89

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I disagree with the notion that a blue belt should just "train train train". This stunts the growth of BJJ in Ireland.

what?? that may have been the case 5 or more years ago, surely you cant be serious.

Tim_Murphy

What's with all the belt obsession? Also, people are talking about 'blues' like they are all the one standard. In my experience that is anything but the case.

Ug Lee wrote:

However I think that "maybe" it might have been easier if they had a resource like Gracie University which is more structured than various videos. If it was easier and they still maximized their efforts then "maybe" the BJJ "might" be more successful in Ireland, successful being "maybe" more medalists, etc.

:rolleyes: Dude, you are coming across as completely clueless.

Tim (real name is actually Timothy, I've been living a lie! :eek: )

BobbyOLeary

Chris89 wrote: »

what?? that may have been the case 5 or more years ago, surely you cant be serious.

Not true. UCDMMA would have fallen by the wayside if blue belts didn't teach. Similar for DCUMMA I'd imagine.

Chris89

But its not like theres no clubs that those lads could train at, the point that barry was making was that if it wasnt for the blues and purps starting up gyms all those years ago, then the sport wouldnt have grown.

Not true. UCDMMA would have fallen by the wayside if blue belts didn't teach. Similar for DCUMMA I'd imagine

Im not sure whats not true, because i didnt really say anything, but you said that you dont agree that bluebelts should be just training training training, come on man. Of course they should.


If every bluebelt reads your gospel, and go off teaching their own classes, surely the quality of lads being produced will fall? Obviously as opposed to training with a nearby brown, black, high level purp or whatever.

Keep in mind im talking about the new blubelts, not the lads who set up years ago and obviously have heaps of teaching experience.

weemate

Can I just say that John Kavanagh was teaching bjj as a blue belt,Graham Keys was teaching bjj as a blue belt,Andy Ryan was teaching as a blue belt,Alan Lowry was teaching as a blue belt..and so was I.
Peter Lavery
small guy
bald
has been known to teach bjj........and isnt a black belt in it.

cowzerp

Ug Lee wrote: »

Why not? If the aim of training in BJJ is to get good at BJJ then why not simply train under someone who is better than you. .

Lots of BJJ clubs have started from MMA Clubs, so the BJJ is a side effect of the club and not the driving force behind it, At present both me and Barry Oglesby both run BJJ classes out of MMA gyms and neither claim to be anything we are not and our clients are getting a service there happy with, If i was to run a BJJ club alone it would cost more to run than to pay for the rent etc... When im training with other blue belts they teach me things and i also teach them occasionally, considering most my students are white belts im more than able to teach them the fundementals.

from my own point of view i train extra with Andy Ryan who is European Brown belt champion to help me keep improving and i have trained a number of lads up to blue belt level myself, I've also shown some purple belts a few things but sure they showed me more in return, I'm pretty sure there is better blue belts out there than me but there not in the area i live so im the best that the town has to offer.

Ug Lee wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. Again, this goes back to my question, what is the motivation for training? All that time and energy getting a premises, advertising, teaching beginners when you could just train, train, train! Especially as a blue belt there is so much more to learn, why teach instead of train? .

My motivation is simple, i run an up and coming MMA gym and to be a good MMA club you need to be well rounded, So BJJ is a necessity in this regard, If i sent all my fighters to other clubs to do BJJ they simply would not go, they are though welcome to train with Andy in Baldoyle if they can also plus when Rodrigo Medeiros is over we train with him and learn loads, May 1st is the next time and thats going to rock.

BobbyOLeary

Chris89 wrote: »

Im not sure whats not true, because i didnt really say anything, but you said that you dont agree that bluebelts should be just training training training, come on man. Of course they should.


If every bluebelt reads your gospel, and go off teaching their own classes, surely the quality of lads being produced will fall? Obviously as opposed to training with a nearby brown, black, high level purp or whatever.

I don't agree that every blue belt should just train train train. Some teaching is required. Not taking up all their time, just some of it. You've taken me up wrong.

Ug Lee

Barry,

Just to say again, I respect you and what you do. You know from other threads with Da Brow (Hapkido) and Niall Keane that I like to debate existing ideas and you didn't mind when I was challanging Niall for example.

I think that the Gracie Garage guys are getting a bit of a hard time and I just wanted to challange some of assumptions against them. There is a lot that I don't agree with the Gracie University but there is a lot of things that I also think they do well.

cletus

out of curiosity, what do you feel that they do well?

itch53

I've been reluctant to join in as I didn't want to drag the thread far off topic (which belt class should we compete at), but I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring as someone who practices the Gracie Combatitives, and as a practitioner my take on Gracie Garages etc.

The first thing I'd address is the "Why bother" when it comes to Gracie Garages. If you are planning to keep going with the Gracie University setup, (The 36 combatitives take you to blue belt, you then follow a curriculum all the way to black, roughly 50-60 techniques per stripe with a sparring session required to pass each stripe, with online testing being available up to brown I believe) then becoming a Gracie Garage is worthwhile, as it sets you up something like an affiliate. The rules are very strict, you can't charge for usage, you can't officially teach, and it puts you in touch online with other students etc. As well as this you get early access to training videos, discounts on tuition, you can train at the academy for free if you ever fly over etc. Basically it works out like a loyalty scheme if you plan to follow this course all the way to the end.

For the average group I would imagine this is the equivalent of a small training group, just with almost a "club" tag attached to it. It's more for a sense of community, similar to how you guys in the BJJ community operate, going from club to club, training with each other etc. The only difference I can see (and just to clarify, not stating it's better or worse, I know most peoples opinion is worse but all I can say is I like it), is that you have a third party organising the instruction layout for you, and providing a set curriculum of training material. It is more rigid following the Gracie Garage principal than say, a group of people learning by rolling and figuring things out via experience. Strictly with the Gracie Garage you are limited to the 36 techniques up to Blue, and the "Fight Simulation Drills" that ship as part of the material. I don't know how other places operate, but we are learning techniques from the Gracie Combatitives, and then trying to incorporate them in 3 minute rounds of rolling, so it's a bit of a blend.

I don't know if anyone has ever viewed the GC course, but the instruction is extremely detailed and very well laid out. Obviously it doesn't replace the benefits of having an experienced coach watching your every move and tailoring lessons to your specific games/strengths/weaknesses, but I think it should also be acknowledged that it's not two guys in their parents basement charging €100 for "Teh Ultimate in defense for teh streetz!!!11!", it's two very legitimate BJJ Black Belts. They do also address in each section many of the frequent problems seen with the specific technique (for example I was having trouble doing arm bars from mount accurately on first try, they addressed the exact problem in the video afterwards and that allowed me to tweak my technique). That and they are very good at answering specific questions on the forum with regards to problems with technique, it's not a complete cookie cutter set, that once you complete the viewing you send off your cheque and get your belt. Having been graded and seeing my training partners grading, they do deduct marks for incorrect grips, leg placement etc. So I don't think it's quite the McDojo that it's being made out to be. Is it completely genuine in spreading love for the sport? I doubt it, I do see it as a business venture as well as an effective way of spreading the art. But is it complete rubbish being sold as a quick fix? I don't believe it is, I know 5 - 6 months to a rank of blue is very fast compared to BJJ, but as it has been pointed out, it's not BJJ.

Just for people who missed my earlier posts, the reason I train this way is due to odd work hours and not being able to keep a steady schedule, so going to the likes of SBG isn't a possibility as my schedule doesn't match with the class timetable. So this training group is a flexible way to get some training in, and socialise with a decent bunch of people.

To slightly get back on point, the reason I posted the question in the first place was I wanted to know when I do wish to try my hand at a BJJ competition, would the GC blue belt rule me out at white belt, or is that fine as it's a different kettle of fish, so I'm a BJJ white belt. Personally I feel white belt, but I don't mind either way, just want to be let play!

Also I haven't forgotten your kind offer Barry, and I hope to have a Saturday off during May to head up to see where I'm at with regards to rolling with a live participant!

Stephen

cletus

Stephen, how long, roughly, does it take to get a purple, brown and black belt in GC

itch53

cletus wrote: »

Stephen, how long, roughly, does it take to get a purple, brown and black belt in GC

Depends on the amount of training time you have available I suppose. As a rough guide it's 6 months to 1 year per stripe. 4 stripes at blue and purple I believe, then brown and black. Blue is the only one that seems to come a bit quicker as it's based on a self defence layout, it switches to BJJ/Gi technique once you hit stripe 1 on the blue. I haven't seen the course past that so I'm not 100% on how the online portion will work from purple onwards.

Stephen

Ug Lee

cletus wrote: »

out of curiosity, what do you feel that they do well?

One of things that I like is that they differenciate between techniques for competition and for "self defence". For example they won't teach jumping into guard or flying armbars too much.

I like the Gracie Combatives which is just the name of the course up to blue belt. After that it is just Gracie Jiu-Jitsu mastercycle. The Gracie Combatives course looks at the most useful GJJ/BJJ techniques for self defence as opposed to competition. So for example they acknowledge that for basic self defence you don't really need to learn guard passing that much and so they spend more time on escaping from the mount more. The Gracie Combatives course teaches GJJ/BJJ against an untrained attacker. The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu mastercycle after that teaches techniques against a trained grappler. So I like that they are quite focused on what they teach.

Gracie Barra seems to do the same for beginners. They have a fundamentals course which is more self-defence orientated.

I also think that the lessons on Gracie University are well presented. The average Gracie Combatives lesson is about 30 mins. The average mastercycle lesson is about 55 mins and covers a lot of detail. Then they have a dedicated forum where you can ask questions on any problems that you are having with the lessons. I think the concept of the Gracie Garages is good and is a structured way of setting up training groups.

These are just some of the things I like about the Gracie University. Now ask me what I don't like about Gracie University.

weemate

To be honest,in my opinion,I think the original poster should enter tournaments at whatever level he feels right.He is obviously enjoying what he is doing along with whoever it is he trains with.He's not claiming to be something that he's not and he's not ripping people off.Is that not the important part??and not the snobbery that I see in this thread?I would have more respect for the poster 'ug lee'if he would front up as to why he has so much against certain belt level instructors,as in,do you train in bjj???because if you dont then you have no part in the discussion except to stir up trouble sir.If you do......then you should give some background to who your instructor is,what level he is and how long you have been with him.
To the original poster......Fair play to you sir and if you ever find yourself in Belfast you will be more than welcome to stop by Kyoujin and join in a session or three.
Peter

Ug Lee

weemate wrote: »

To be honest,in my opinion,I think the original poster should enter tournaments at whatever level he feels right.He is obviously enjoying what he is doing along with whoever it is he trains with.He's not claiming to be something that he's not and he's not ripping people off.Is that not the important part??and not the snobbery that I see in this thread?

I 100% agree with you. I have just made my point in a different way.

weemate wrote: »

I would have more respect for the poster 'ug lee'if he would front up as to why he has so much against certain belt level instructors,

I don't have any problem with "certain belt level instructors". I am just challanging what you see as snobbery in this thread. I am drawing a parallel between the criticism of the Gracie Garage/University guys and the background of most existing BJJ teachers in general.
I am not putting anyone down. I respect the background of these belt level instructors and by pointing out their background I am hoping people will give the Gracie Garage/University students the same respect or at least the benefit of the doubt.

But I also realise I am being a bit of a pain in the arse.

weemate

I am hoping people will give the Gracie Garage/University students the same respect or at least the benefit of the doubt.

and rightly so.......that should be it really.