Cutting Weight.

Martin Walker

Most, if not all, Pro MMA fighters make weight for fights by cutting a hell of alot of weight in saunas or by various other forms of dehydration in the days before weigh in for a fight.
All MMA promotions allow Pro fighters to weigh in 24hrs before the start of a show. This leads to people staving and cutting out water to step on the scales to make weight then they rehydrate and eat alot pushing there weight up one or two divisions from the one they are fighting in.
What are peoples thoughts on this?
Should people fight at there walk around weight?
Should there be a limit to how much weight can be put back on for the day of the fight?
Discuss.

roo1981

Weight cutting sucks, I personally hate it. Its part of the sport though, and the only way I can see of getting rid of it would be to have the weigh ins an hour or so before the fight-which would be a nightmare for promoters and fighters alike.

Even at that I'd say most fighters would still chance it-the MMA league is an example, I'd say most people competing would try cut at least a little weight the night before.

What I find a bit ironic is that most fighters now cut roughly the same amount of weight to fight in a lower division (there are of course exceptions). For instance you could have two guys of similar build\fitness that walk around at 82kg who cut to 77 to fight each other...chances are that if they fought at their normal weight, the fight itself would be a lot more entertaining and they wouldnt gas as quick.

Martin Walker

roo1981 wrote: »

...chances are that if they fought at their normal weight, the fight itself would be a lot more entertaining and they wouldnt gas as quick.

I thought this too. Especially at the lower divisions such as Fly, Bantam and Feather. These divisions are all action from the start but most times if its not finished early the pace drops and the fighters gas.

Sid_Justice

Tbh i don't think there is much more to discuss you've both summed up the major points.

If you want people to fight close to their natural weight you have to have weigh ins as late as possible. Thus you run the risk of fighters not making weight and having he administrative hassle of dealing with that.

In BJJ you weigh in immediately prior to your first bout, if you miss weight you're DQed. Imagine that in UFC? Half the fights would be at catch weight or cancelled!

Well that's not true, people would basically get used to it.

the only thing that can be said positively about making weight that it kinda ensures the guy stepping into the cage has prepared. If you have to cut 8 kgs to make weight you're probably going to be training hard and prepared to fight. if you could just ploddle along and hop in at any auld weight you may get more under prepared fighters.

wingnut4

In a dream world it would be ideal to have the weigh in's an hour before the fight but its too late for that really.

I dont think theres too much wrong with fighters cutting weight but its really up to the fighter themselves and if they loose to cutting too much weight then thats their own fault.

Again its difficult to say, as a girl its also extra hard I think because you need to be around a certain weight to get fight match ups as there isnt many girls in the country doing MMA.

Jason McCabe

It has worked in boxing for years so there is no real reason why it should not work this way in MMA.

I think the biggest issue is the gap between weight classes that we have in MMA.

Though the change would need to come from the big promotions like the UFC down

Plastikman_eire

I think same day weigh's could potentially be very dangerous, especially at the higher level where the purses are bigger. I think fighters would cut large amounts anyway, go into the fight dehydrated and risk very serious injury, just to hold onto the percieved advantage they feel cutting gives.

The Massachusetts athletic commission made an interesting change to their weigh in policy last week;

The Massachusetts ‘double weigh-in’ provision calls for a fighter to be weighed in no more than 36 hours before his fight and again on the night of the fight. The fighter cannot weigh more than 1.0625 times his initial weight on the second weigh-in. ”

If a fighter then comes in more the 1.0625 times his intial weight, possible penalties being suggested are docking them 20% of their purse and awarding it to the other fighter, or have them enter the bout a point down. Thereby negating much of the advantage the extra weight might afford.

This system might work in every state.

cowzerp

Pro fights legally have to be weighed in 24 hrs before for safety reasons, otherwise lads would still weigh in dehydrated and be at higher risk of brain injury due to less water cushioning the brain, so forget about it, its here to stay and thats it.

wingnut4

thats us told! lol

pablohoney87

I think the best way is for there to be more weight classes at pro level. If there wasnt such a large difference between weight classes (15-20 pounds) I dont think some guys would cut as much. Like how diego sanchez would fit perfectly into a weight class between 155 and 170. I think most people agree hes too small for 170 but looked pretty gaunt at 155. Like do they talk much about harsh cuts in boxing. I dont really listen to commentary or fighter backgrounds when i watch boxing I just sit back and enjoy.

Plastikman_eire

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I think the best way is for there to be more weight classes at pro level. If there wasnt such a large difference between weight classes (15-20 pounds) I dont think some guys would cut as much. Like how diego sanchez would fit perfectly into a weight class between 155 and 170. I think most people agree hes too small for 170 but looked pretty gaunt at 155. Like do they talk much about harsh cuts in boxing. I dont really listen to commentary or fighter backgrounds when i watch boxing I just sit back and enjoy.

I disagree. I think the ridiculous number of weight classes in boxing dilutes the importance of titles and I one of the main reasons boxing is in decline.

Personally Id like to see a return to open weight lol

pablohoney87

I dont think there should be as many as in boxing but i think in the case of 185-205 twenty pounds is too big a gap between weight classes. I think guys like rashad evans, james irvin and thiago silva would really benifit from an extra weight class in there.

cowzerp

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

I disagree. I think the ridiculous number of weight classes in boxing dilutes the importance of titles and I one of the main reasons boxing is in decline.

Boxing always had the weight classes so that's ridiculous, plus a minor fight on sat with wlad klitschko with no undercard got 51k fans to a stadium and 12.6 million Germans watched on tele, that's hardly in decline!!!

Stop listening to Dana White man, look at the facts

When Pacquiao and Mayweather fight it will be the highest ppv prize fight by miles, the Mosley v Mayweather fight will most likely be up there aswell..

Boxing is not on Decline, there just happens to be another fight sport worthy of been mentioned in the same breath for once.

Plastikman_eire

I think 185 is fine. Personally the only weight class I wouldnt mind seeing messed with is HW, 206 - 265 is too much, particularly with mutants like lesnar and carwin doing the rounds a crusier weight division between LHW and HW might be of benefit.

Plastikman_eire

cowzerp wrote: »

Boxing always had the weight classes so that's ridiculous, plus a minor fight on sat with wlad klitschko with no undercard got 51k fans to a stadium and 12.6 million Germans watched on tele, that's hardly in decline!!!

Stop listening to Dana White man, look at the facts

When Pacquiao and Mayweather fight it will be the highest ppv prize fight by miles, the Mosley v Mayweather fight will most likely be up there aswell..

Boxing is not on Decline, there just happens to be another fight sport worthy of been mentioned in the same breath for once.

Dont get me wrong, boxing isn't going anywhere.

It is in decline when compared to previous decades. With the exception of a couple of massive match ups, it isnt pulling the PPV numbers that it used to and I think the fact that there are so many champs over so many weight classes across several organisations is part of the reason that is happening.

ginoginelli

This might be a fairer way to divide up the weight classes.


185 - middle

200 - cruiser

215 - light heavy

215 + - Heavy (No 265 limit)

Tim_Murphy

cowzerp wrote: »

Pro fights legally have to be weighed in 24 hrs before for safety reasons, otherwise lads would still weigh in dehydrated and be at higher risk of brain injury due to less water cushioning the brain, so forget about it, its here to stay and thats it.

Legally according to whom?

For my money whilst the current system might not be perfect, it is the best anyone has come up with so far, and it is here to stay so shouldn't everybody just get on with it.

John Ferguson

cowzerp wrote: »

Pro fights legally have to be weighed in 24 hrs before .

Under which legislation?

cowzerp

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Legally according to whom?

For my money whilst the current system might not be perfect, it is the best anyone has come up with so far, and it is here to stay so shouldn't everybody just get on with it.

Fair question Tim, as far as i know the Nevada state commision, but we're not in any governing body so i suppose this may be void but if we dont go by these guidelines then we're playing with fire imo as they are there for safety reasons..

Tim_Murphy

cowzerp wrote: »

Fair question Tim, as far as i know the Nevada state commision, but we're not in any governing body so i suppose this may be void but if we dont go by these guidelines then we're playing with fire imo as they are there for safety reasons..

The rules of the athletic commision in Nevada may be void over here? Really? It isn't a question of them being void or not, they simply don't apply to anything outside of regulated MMA events in Nevada. I'm not in favour of same day weigh ins at all, I'm just pointing out that there are no legal requirements around the issue.

Plastikman_eire

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

The rules of the athletic commision in Nevada may be void over here? Really? It isn't a question of them being void or not, they simply don't apply to anything outside of regulated MMA events in Nevada. I'm not in favour of same day weigh ins at all, I'm just pointing out that there are no legal requirements around the issue.

Not exactly. The US athletic commissions are a bitchy little bunch by the sounds of it. If the UFC failed to adhere to NSAC rules on a show held outside the US, the the NSAC could pull their licence to promote in Nevada

Tim_Murphy

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Not exactly. The US athletic commissions are a bitchy little bunch by the sounds of it. If the UFC failed to adhere to NSAC rules on a show held outside the US, the the NSAC could pull their licence to promote in Nevada

That still doesn't sound like any kind of legal requirement.

Plastikman_eire

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

That still doesn't sound like any kind of legal requirement.

I dont recall mentioning that it was?

Tim_Murphy

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

I dont recall mentioning that it was?

I said 'there are no legal requirements...' you replied: 'Not exactly'

Plastikman_eire

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

I said 'there are no legal requirements...' you replied: 'Not exactly'

Apologies, I was replying to:

Originally Posted by Tim_Murphy
The rules of the athletic commision in Nevada may be void over here? Really? It isn't a question of them being void or not, they simply don't apply to anything outside of regulated MMA events in Nevada.

Mellor

Know its an old thread, but didn't see this mentioned elsewhere

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

The Massachusetts athletic commission made an interesting change to their weigh in policy last week;



If a fighter then comes in more the 1.0625 times his intial weight, possible penalties being suggested are docking them 20% of their purse and awarding it to the other fighter, or have them enter the bout a point down. Thereby negating much of the advantage the extra weight might afford.

This system might work in every state.

Does this still apply in massachusetts? Doesn't seem like much leeway

135 143.5
145 154
155 164.5
170 180.5
185 196.5
205 218
265 281.5

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I think the best way is for there to be more weight classes at pro level. If there wasnt such a large difference between weight classes (15-20 pounds) I dont think some guys would cut as much. Like how diego sanchez would fit perfectly into a weight class between 155 and 170. I think most people agree hes too small for 170 but looked pretty gaunt at 155. Like do they talk much about harsh cuts in boxing. I dont really listen to commentary or fighter backgrounds when i watch boxing I just sit back and enjoy.

And while i'm bumping it.
Don't see how more divisions changes anything with cutting. If a fighter can cut 20lbs to say 185, he'll cut 20lbs. Regardless to the fact that its one or two divisions.

More divisions weakens the whole lot imo. The one positive would be a fighter holding two belts at once is far more likely. Which would make things interesting. But not enough to justify addign more.
One exception is a 220 division