Golf GT TSI, Leons, Civic Type S & others .. good / bad? Thoughts / Advice please ..

aidanodr

Hi Guys,

I am looking around for a replacement car for my unfortunate crashed / economically written off 03 MX5 Nevada 1.8i ( Ice in December ).

With a nod to the increasing day to day prices of ownership like fuel costs, tax, insurance and so on, I am looking at something a little sporty yet reasonably economical ( one might say sporty and economical do not belong in the same sentence ).

I mentioned elsewhere here I am looking at the 2008 Golf GT Sport TSI 1.4. Someone replied that they were problematic, is this true? Any owners of said car who can relay experience?

This is a new engine from VW ( engine of year in 06 and 07 ). The TSI is - apparently - the first successful combination of a Supercharger and a Turbocharger in the one engine. This delivers good torque across the gears and also good BHP while economical to drive - around 50 mpg? Torque is around 200nm while the engine comes in 140 or 170bhp. Their is a 120bhp version but this has no supercharger.

Please bare in mind I would be lucky to get 30 max from my old MX5 1.8i ...

Have their been lots of problems with this TSI engine?

It is also available in the Passat ... I think later polo's and the jetta too, maybe wrong.

Another Marque / car with this TSI engine is the Seat LEON. Again anybody with Seat experiences? Particularly a Leon 2008 on? Whatever about the Marque, the 08 Leon TSI with Aero Kit looks quiet nice.

I looked at the Mini Cooper S turbo charged - call me fickle, but I think this car has well and truely become a ladies car, I yet have to see a guy driving one though it is beefy on the BHP front.

Also a Honda Civic TYPE S. This is 1.8 with 140BHP. My wife has the 1.4 version. Anyone with Type S experience? Type R is a bit too far for me - 2.0 litre, high Insurance for anyone really!

Of course any other cars suggested would be appreciated ..

Aidan

alexmcred

Hi Op I had an 08 GT sport 140bhp and got rid was way to much hassle and wasn't willing to risk holding onto it after the warranty ran out.

Cracking car to drive and I do miss it but head over ruled heart in the end.

aidanodr

alexmcred wrote: »

Hi Op I had an 08 GT sport 140bhp and got rid was way to much hassle and wasn't willing to risk holding onto it after the warranty ran out.

Cracking car to drive and I do miss it but head over ruled heart in the end.

Hey Alex,

When you say HASSLE could you expand the description, just interested to hear. What did you buy instead?

Aidan

alexmcred

Over the first year it had a water pump replaced, recirculation valve and door seals replaced due to wind noise. The second year it had a fuel valve replaced for the turbo and had to have the Break servo replace.

After much messing about looking at different cars an x1 lives in my driveway now:)

kojack

Hi OP i had the Leon 1.4 tsi never gave me any trouble its nippy enough aswel. Now i've the fr and same thing never any hassle with it.

aidanodr

Hi,

Thanks Alex - man, its getting more difficult to find a car / marque that isnt problematic. That said - I have stuck with Honda's since the 90's - CRXes, Civic's, Integra's and I have to say I have had no problems what so ever. That 1.8 Type S Civic is looking good

My experience - brief - with the MX5 was tops too. Great car to drive - if I were to get one again it would be the 1.6. The 1.8 is quiet thirsty and higher tax of course! However I would say an 07 on 1.8 / 2.0 litre would be good on the economy front.

When I mention economy I am happy with high 30's or higher. When your at or below 30 ( as per MX 1.8 ) high 30's or even 50's sounds amazing

Kojack - I have been keeping an eye on the Leons, as I said the ones with the Aero kit particularly look nice.

The FR is 2.0L I think?

The general thoughts I am getting from people though - is to be careful with Seats - problems and questionable resale?

Aidan

alexmcred

Hi aidan yeah I had probs with mine but did love the car test drive all the ones your think of and go from there. Every car has its problems I could just have been unlucky (I hope).

kojack

Yeah Aidan the fr is 2.0L and the resale value is pretty poor i changed up from the 1.4 because it was goin so cheap it cost 36k brand new with the extras in it and i got it for just under 28k after 9 months.

I'd definately think of the type S if i were you, nice car and you wont get any trouble i've promised myself an fd2 sometime in the future.

jayok

We've a 1.8 Type-S in the family. Very sharp steering and I love to drive it. The 1.8 engine is quite sweet and the handling is fine. Comes with plenty of toys too. Not an ounce of bother with it.

aidanodr

Yip,

The TYPE S is well up there.

His and hers in our house, as I said my wife has the 1.4 version - Red.

JAYOK - is their that VTEC sweet spot in the rev range with the TYPE S? Whats the real world economy like? Hopefully a bit better than the MX that is greater than 30mpg?

Aidan

aidanodr

AND - maybe in June - we have the Honda CRZ ( out in UK then ) - Ahh, happy days, back to my CRX type look

Aidan

Leprechaun77

My wife drives a Type-S Civic and we have had no problems with it yet. I actually prefer to drive this myself, ahead of my own car. The iVTec engine is probably the best 1.8 I've driven, and I've gone through a few company cars in this engine size bracket. The steering is very sharp and it has a nice bit of acceleration for it's size. The body kit and lowered suspension make it look great, but does give it a bumpier drive on rough roads. We have just increased the family in size so are now moving up to a 4 door car....I will genuinely be sad when the car is replaced.

aidanodr

Hey Leprechaun77 - cant you get a 5 door version TYPE S??

Also mentioned to me was the new Renault Megane Coupe. 1.5 diesel. I realise these are discussed elsewhere here AND I DO NOT WANT TO START ANOTHER RENAULT BASHING FEST. But measured up against any of the cars in this thread title is it at the races so to speak? My gut says no - and definitely not near the TYPE S Civic!

Any 09 Megane Coupe owner experience here I wonder?

Aidan

Boardwatcher

I did take a 2007 Type S civic out for a day last year, was a nice car alright but i was put off by the road tax. Is prob slightly cheaper under the new system.

People generally seem to complain about the rear visibility in those cars as there is no rear wiper and Honda went and put a rear spoiler right across the rear window. Parking sensors might help in that case.

The fuel economy from what i remember was not to bad, definitely over 30MPG, maybe even closer to 40. I loved the dual sunroof, only a pity you cannot actually pop it up to let in air.

Right now though i have my eye on the Focus diesel.

aidanodr

Boardwatcher,

Under the new system the tax is €302. The type S falls into band C ... just .. the emissions are at 155g/km.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/co2_emissions_rates_2009_en.pdf

This is well over €200 less than under the old system.

I am used to the visibility .. or lack of, as I mentioned above my wife has a 1.4 Civic. Good to hear about the fuel economy too.

Aidan

JHMEG

Boardwatcher wrote: »

Right now though i have my eye on the Focus diesel.

Did a quick google on that and it seems to get within striking distance of hybrid-like fuel ecomony. Very impressive.

But, a few things worry me about the engine: turbo, direct injection diesel, French. Potential for tears?

Leprechaun77

aidanodr wrote: »

Hey Leprechaun77 - cant you get a 5 door version TYPE S??

The Type-S only comes in a 3 door to my knowledge, and accompanying 1.8l engine. I presume that Honda use this model to chase the coupe market, and then put on the extra bit of bodykit. You can get the same 1.8 engine in a 5-door, but not the same spec/styling as the Type-S.

jayok

@OP.

The Type-S gets about 42mpg on a long run and around town is about 33mpg. It all depends on how its driven I suppose.

Re the sweet spot on the VTEC, it's not like the old B16A engines - hitting 5.5K RPM and you'd a different beast. The power delivery is more linear. It also feels quite "torquey" to drive.

My daily driver is a 325Ci and I have to say the Type-S impresses me. It's only available as a 3 door, the 1.8 in the 5 door has softer suspension and no body kit.

aidanodr

Thanks Guys,

It seems one cannot argue with the CIVIC TYPE S really. I sort of stayed away from looking at them mainly because my wife has the 1.4 version Civic, so having two felt a bit odd

If I had an idea of when the CRZ was out and how much it will be here I would almost hang tough. Its out in the UK in June starting at ST£16999 for the S Model. Heavens knows what it will be here OR when ...

Another motor I was looking at is the Toyota Celica. Any thoughts on these guys? 1.8 vvti engine. Hard to get one reasonable and with lowish mileage ...

Aidan

cadaliac

This delivers good torque across the gears and also good BHP while economical to drive - around 50 mpg?

err......no afraid not. The 1.4TSI will just about get 30mpg. (in jetta form at least)

aidanodr

cadaliac wrote: »

This delivers good torque across the gears and also good BHP while economical to drive - around 50 mpg?

err......no afraid not. The 1.4TSI will just about get 30mpg. (in jetta form at least)

Interesting cadaliac,

from the posts here and elsewhere it would seem this TSI engine is not all its cracked up to be?

I think I have been satisfactorily moved off the Golf TSI anyway. I think ill stick to the japs, its all I have ever had - Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda - never any trouble at all. Only break was my first car which was way back - a hatch escort, late 80's early 90's!

Cheers
Aidan

Boardwatcher

JHMEG wrote: »

But, a few things worry me about the engine: turbo, direct injection diesel, French. Potential for tears?

Well the 1.6TDCI seems to be raved about on here.

The car i will be looking at is the 1.8TDCI which is all Ford I believe, some say it is not as reliable as the 1.6 :eek:

Boardwatcher

aidanodr wrote: »

Boardwatcher,

Under the new system the tax is €302. The type S falls into band C ... just .. the emissions are at 155g/km.

Aidan

Are you sure about this? For the 1.8 Type S? Cos i recently looked at a 2008 model and was told by the salesman that it was in band D or 447 tax per year

The 302 would obviously be a lot more attractive.

bazz26

Boardwatcher wrote: »

Are you sure about this? For the 1.8 Type S? Cos i recently looked at a 2008 model and was told by the salesman that it was in band D or 447 tax per year

The 302 would obviously be a lot more attractive.

The Civic hatchback got a mild facelift towards the end of last year, this included a new grill and tweaks to the engines reducing emmissions:



Type S is also available in 1.4 litre which costs €156 to tax.

aidanodr

Boardwatcher wrote: »

Are you sure about this? For the 1.8 Type S? Cos i recently looked at a 2008 model and was told by the salesman that it was in band D or 447 tax per year

The 302 would obviously be a lot more attractive.

Hi BW,

Lets look at the official honda brochure - Page 33:

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/_assets/downloads/civic3door/Civic_TypeS.pdf

Now look at the newer tax rates after 1st JULY 2008:

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/co2_emissions_rates_2009_en.pdf

From the TYPE S brochure any of the 1.8 i-VTEC CO2 (g/km) levels are at 155 grams. In the Motor Tax Brochure you can see Band C at €302 says:

"More than 140g/km up to and including 155g/km"

Of course maybe the issue is when the car you looked at was registered - PRE or POST 1st July 2008?

An anomaly created by the GREENS I think ..

Aidan

daRobot

I'll throw the Focus ST into the mix for you.

Great car, amazing 5cyl engine note, and loads of torque, but 2.5 litre and not so economical (23-25 around town, 30 ish on long run)

I also should probably mention that I have a beautifully specced blue 2008 (new model) for sale at under 19,000 euro :pac: PM me if you want more details.

Tea 1000

aidanodr wrote: »

Another motor I was looking at is the Toyota Celica. Any thoughts on these guys? 1.8 vvti engine. Hard to get one reasonable and with lowish mileage ...

Aidan

Excellent car, under rated by most to be honest, drive one on a twisty road and you'll see. Boardsies will insist that you go for the 190bhp, but the 140bhp isn't as bad as they'll tell you! They're both the same up to 6000 rpm, but above that the 190 really shines.

aidanodr

Yes,

The Celica has been on my mind. Its line finished in 05/06 I think. Apparently Toyota are looking at filling that slot with another new sporty model in 2011.

The Civic Type S is still edging it. Lower running costs for a 1.8 like lower tax, better fuel economy etc. For resale in these pricey motoring times 1.8 cars are going to need all the good excuses possible to sell on later. As I said earlier if you watch the market its going toward 1.5 diesels with high torque / bpm and mpg in the area of 50-60.

I think buyers in the future are going to buy on running costs - tax at €104, mpg up around 60 and so on. Thanks to government policy ala the greens the large engined ( > 1.6 ) sporty cars we like are going to become impossible to have on the road. Would you buy a 2.5l or a 3.2L car these days? Best of luck if you would

Re your Focus DaRobot - I think I have answered above ... sorry!

Aidan

aidanodr

Hey Boardwatcher,

Back to the CO2 emissions and tax - Was talking to a Honda dealer today. While I am correct as per above - the new Civic Type S is in fact at 155g/km and therefore IS Band C €302 tax, the older model ( pre this year I think ) were 1g more at 156g/km and so are at Band D €447 tax.

Man that kinda sucks - 1g costs you €147 more a year, jeez ...

Aidan

JHMEG

aidanodr wrote: »

Hey Boardwatcher,

Back to the CO2 emissions and tax - Was talking to a Honda dealer today. While I am correct as per above - the new Civic Type S is in fact at 155g/km and therefore IS Band C €302 tax, the older model ( pre this year I think ) were 1g more at 156g/km and so are at Band D €447 tax.

Man that kinda sucks - 1g costs you €147 more a year, jeez ...

Aidan

Even more ironic is that the 2.2 diesel is in the bottom band at only €156 a year.

Tea 1000

aidanodr wrote: »

Would you buy a 2.5l or a 3.2L car these days? Best of luck if you would

Absolutely! Never a better time to buy one. Large petrols have never been as cheap. Take a 530i. Early E60's are going for up to €5,000 cheaper than their 530d counterparts, which typically have higher mileage. In real life the mpg difference is typically as low as about 5mpg between them. You'd want to be doing a hell of a lot of miles before you'd claw back the difference, and the petrol would be more reliable to boot!
Op, you should consider a Boxter!!

aidanodr

JHMEG wrote: »

Even more ironic is that the 2.2 diesel is in the bottom band at only €156 a year.

Yip sure is - 134g/km so its in Band B

3.2 litre boxster ... yummie, but out of my range anyway!

Aidan

VolvoMan

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Absolutely! Never a better time to buy one. Large petrols have never been as cheap. Take a 530i. Early E60's are going for up to €5,000 cheaper than their 530d counterparts, which typically have higher mileage.

In the UK, late E39's are apparently fetching more than early E60's.

Tea 1000

VolvoMan wrote: »

In the UK, late E39's are apparently fetching more than early E60's.

I noticed that alright. The E39 has a better reputation than the E60 over there as having the best balance of excellent comfort and handling. The E60 is not as good at soaking up crappy road surfaces apparently and for no real gain in handling or balance over the E39.
I'm on the look out for a nice fresh E39 525i for the last few months myself, want a nice low mileage well cared for example. Hard to find, but they do crop up every now and again, but they're a little pricey! Still good value overall though.