16yr old refusing to go to school

Cavehill Red

So much so, I went and got my log in after years of absence so that I could post a response to this thread.
One poster reasonably suggested pursuing the core problem. And was flamed for it by the moderator.
Another suggested tough love (with no reference to physical chastisement that I could discern) and got banned by the moderator.
I wonder to what degree the moderator is inhibiting debate here so that their own (in my view, pretty poor) advice is the only advice on offer.
To the OP: I got custody of my child at the age of 13, at a time when she'd refused to attend school at all for four months.
I was in a different area, so there was of course a new school and a new surroundings. They do help a bit, in that they remove surface antagonists (I don't like that teacher, that bully, etc).
But they didn't solve the problem. I did.
My child's mother had little control in her own life, and therefore was unable to create a climate of stability in her offspring's. I dealt with this via a comprehensive system of implementing self-discipline (doing chores for pocket money, cooking her own breakfast, basic money management and saving, keeping her room and clothes clean, etc.)
With a reward-based system, positive behaviour is reinforced. OP, you've gone down the opposite direction of giving in to everything, which leads to confrontation when you finally reach issues you literally cannot allow to slide, such as education.
Whatever the moderator might think, tough love IS the answer and it is the only one. It requires loving them but being tough with them so that they learn the basic lessons of life. It also requires being a role model, which goes double for parents of the same gender as the child.
To clarify: the tough love I gave my child never involved any form of abuse. I've never had to lift my hand to her in my life, and rarely even raised my voice.
Initially it wasn't easy. I had to undo her natural resistance to authority figures. I had to demonstrate I really did have her best interests at heart and also that I was prepared to face down anything and anyone, including herself, if it was in her best interests.
That requires patience, as you will have to face down teen stubbornness. It also requires an almost zen ability to remain calm in the face of intense provocation.
At 16, it's almost too late. But the child is still likely desperately in need of a stable environment.
I'd start by discussing her expectations of life, and of her life now. I'd start comparing that to reality, and if necessary demonstrating reality - take her out on a day trip, show her the dole queues, the junkies, the streetwalkers. Show her the courts, the cop station, the A+E, the wet shelters.
I'd remind her that her best way up and out is education. I'd offer to hold her hand and help her. She likely wants to do well in life, but simply doesn't know how.
That will involve hard deadlines, clear penalties for failure, no moral judgements just encouragement to do better at all times, but a rigid implementation of any penalties.
What sort of penalties? Take her phone at weekends or block it to all but certain numbers, or stop paying the bill. Lock her out of the house during school hours.
Stop cleaning her clothes and linen. Stop cooking for her. With all of these, offer to assist, but insist that she does them. And as I said, reward good behaviour to reinforce it.
What's clear is that your daughter is protesting about something vehemently, and it is now essential that you find out what that is and deal with her protest adequately and effectively.
That may well involve taking a lot of blame for your relationship with her father. But you can't expect a child to take responsibilities if you as their parent and role model duck them. So whatever they're protesting, you need to get to the bottom of it, and make amends.
I loathe my ex-partner, for how she screwed up her life and nearly did the same to my daughter. But I am obliged to remain positive and respectful to her for my daughter's behalf, because to do otherwise would undermine the example I am setting for her.
Bottom line: talk to her about what she's angry about and accept it, even if you don't like what you hear, and follow through by doing whatever you promise to change things.
In return, offer her a deal that she changes to, with a series of responsibilities linked to rewards and punishments, that you'll help her with, so that she can attain what she's capable of to the best of her abilities.
In very short: tough love, as previously said.

littlebitdull

We have had this self same situation with our son - now 19 - for the past four /five years. We have days when nothing we do or say will get him up out of that bed. We have taken away privilidges, phones, computer time... pocket money - everything we can think of. We have tried rewards - extra pocket money for attending school. Tried just spending extra time with him. We have done parenting courses. And at this stage there is nothing physical we can do to get him up, he is bigger than both of us.

I would love to be able to give you the answer, to say there is light at the end of the tunnel. But we are still in that tunnel. It darkens our house.

We too have tried everything we can think of - most weeks he has reduced pocket money. But he seems to prefer to stay in the bed than have money for a pint of a saturday night!

We have no home issues - so in a way I think its unfair of anyone to assume that your problem comes from there. We have a very stable and secure marrage, and while we are not rolling in money we have no worries there either.

Some posters have focused in on your situation - with her father being gone as the core issue. But in my opinion its not always the answer - just a convienent bandwagon to jump on. Sure sometimes it is the answer - but its not always. Sometimes even in a secure household - you can have a child who will not go to school or has other problems. Sometimes its not always the parent who is wrong - sometimes the problem can actually lie with the child/teenager.

It does however sound to me like she is suffering from a form of depression - you describe her health issues and it ticks most of the boxes. Some times medication is needed to help cure this - just as with other illnesses. You have tried the non-meds route - perhaps its time to give science a try.

Best of luck ... honestly !

Cavehill Red

With due respect, you do have a home issue. You have a young man who is sleeping his life away in your house.
In your case, probably only the enforcement of responsibilities is likely to have any effect at this time. He is, after all, an adult.
Kick him out of the house unless he gets up and leaves it at the same time you do, not returning until the same time you do. Take the house key off him. Demand he sign on and sign over his money in lieu of rent.
If someone is spending all day everyday in bed, they possibly are significantly depressed.
But if they're simply ducking chores and responsibilities while they get up and go out when it suits them to do so (such as the pub) then the likelihood is that they are not suffering a medical condition.

Khannie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Another suggested tough love (with no reference to physical chastisement that I could discern) and got banned by the moderator.

You didn't see the original link that he posted as the moderator (rightly) removed it. I think you need to get down off that high horse. If you have a problem with moderation, I'd suggest you take it to feedback.

edit: So you have the facts, this is the post that was edited (you can see that at the bottom of the post). The link was to a very violent clip of a parent beating their child. The user who was banned was very clearly trolling, was warned and told not to do it again, then did it again. Easy ban decision.

littleoulme

I'd make her get a job if she is not going to school and pay half the bills. Tough Love. Does she get on with her father? Would he stand for it if she was "Hypothetically speaking" told that she would have to go and live with him?

Cavehill Red

Khannie wrote: »

You didn't see the original link that he posted as the moderator (rightly) removed it. I think you need to get down off that high horse. If you have a problem with moderation, I'd suggest you take it to feedback.

I was referring to merightone's post which shows no evidence of anything having been added or removed.
I have a problem with someone promoting a particular piece of advice to the OP while blocking other voices from being heard.
If I wanted a single person's opinion about something I'd go ask a friend. If I wanted general advice from other parents, then I'd open a discussion as the OP had.
I think it's clear the OP is seeking a variety of opinions on this, and I think it's important the OP receives that.
You can have your high horse back, clearly you need it much more than I do.

LegacyUser

littleoulme wrote: »

I'd make her get a job if she is not going to school and pay half the bills. Tough Love. Does she get on with her father? Would he stand for it if she was "Hypothetically speaking" told that she would have to go and live with him?

Hi,
I've thought of that too.. he wouldn't stand for it (nor do i think she'd pull this stunt with him) but i am worried that if it is indeed depression or something that the last thing she need's is me forcing her to live with her dad as i said their relationship is extremely volatile - i would be worried if that would have an adverse affect on her if there is an underlying issue like depression or something.

@ redhill cave - thank you for taking time to post your thoughts and opinion on my issue - however, I think the moderator was correct in banning poster that posted a link promoting a child being beaten

Khannie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I was referring to merightone's post which shows no evidence of anything having been added or removed.

This will be my final response to this in thread. me_right_one was a troll and got banned for it having been warned earlier in the thread and having posted up extremely violent content. That you are referring to a post which was not edited is irrelevant. He was trolling, got warned, deliberately ignored the warning then got banned.

If you have a problem with the moderation of this thread, bring it to feedback or go through the dispute resolution process. Do not post about it again in this thread. It is not appropriate to do so (on any thread in any forum, but I am being leniant since you are new).

Cavehill Red

I'm familiar with the phenomenon whereby people seek personal reinforcement under the guise of asking for advice.
Generally, the difference between the two can be discerned by whether the person engages with all the advice they receive or just that which reinforces their existing personal position.
It's becoming clear that views dissenting from 'You're not to blame!' are not to be tolerated in this discussion. Sadly, usually the parents ARE to blame, by omission, or neglect, or failure to convey a clear set of behaviours and ethics in what is often a complex and confusing world for young people.
I can't believe people who are suggesting that the parenting style needs to change here are being badgered and silenced, while others with no apparent medical skills are being permitted to diagnose depression in the absence of the 'patient' and prescribe serious medication!
If the OP genuinely wants to resolve the situation they described, then they have a lot of work to do, but it is possible.
If they just want to feel better about not resolving the situation, then I've no doubt there will be those to provide them all the 'support' they need with that.

Vodkat

I was similar to your daughter when i was 16. I refused to get up in the mornings. I never did my homework and i had an extremely poor attendance record. My background has some similar qualities as your daughters. My parents never married and my father was constantly in and out of our home. I wrote a diary and can count 16 times he left us. My mom is highly educated and had an extremely well paid job, until she had to retire early due to ill health. I have completely changed since i was 16, im now 21 and repeating my leaving cert so i can go to college and study midwifery. I hope i can help your daughter to understand what shes doing to her future and you're relationship.

The reason i believe i refused to go to school and get up when told is because i wanted to take some control of my life. I couldn't control whether my dad stayed or left. I had to watch my mom suffer an illness that i couldn't help. So i felt the need to control something and that was my education.

My Mom was tired of arguing and having to fight with me every day. She came up with a plan with the help of the schools guidance counselor. she wrote up a realistic list of house rules. There were 4. She kept them simple. She got me to sign a contract to obey the rules. And she explained what was to happen if i broke the rules. She called it the ''3 strike rule''. If i was to break the rules once she would deny my privileges: she stopped trying to get me up, she stopped doing my washing, she stopped cooking my dinner, she stopped my pocket money even, she took my phone off me and she ignored me. She said i didnt respect her so she wont respect me. i was told if i wanted dinner to cook it myself, And if i wanted to skip school then i would have to get a job because i would have to pay for my clothes etc, She explained that if i was to leave school then she wouldnt be getting a childrens allowance so therefore she would have no money to support me. For three days she refused to speak to me. She explained that my behaviour wont be tolerated in our home, she explained that i breached the rules of our contract and she was disappointed. Then during those three days i broke another rule I stayed out passed 12 i think. I returned to a locked house and there was a note on the door saying that she had pitched a tent in the garden for me and left out a sleeping bag. she said that if i didnt appreciate the warm bedroom that she provided for me then i dont deserve it. I was Furious. I know this sounds drastic. The next day she opened the door in the morning and had breakfast and tea left on the table. She sat down and we had a heart to heart. She said she understands why im so mad all the time and she says that she really wants to help me. She asked me what career i would like to have and what do i see my future being like? we both researched the paths that i could take to achieve what i wanted. And she was offering to get school grinds if i needed them. Eventually i began going back to school. She never thanked me... she said if she did then i would have seen that i was doing it for her not me. So she told me she was proud instead. I was glad that i was making her proud. I know repeating now but i had missed out on so much i didnt get the results i wanted so i took two years out to work and save so i could financially support myself when i decided to go back. I have soooooo much control over my life now and I have matured. I hope this helps your situation and if your daughter took a look at the post maybe that could help! If she needs someone who understands whats going on PM me i would love to help if possible, If she wants to chat!!

LegacyUser

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm familiar with the phenomenon whereby people seek personal reinforcement under the guise of asking for advice.
Generally, the difference between the two can be discerned by whether the person engages with all the advice they receive or just that which reinforces their existing personal position.
It's becoming clear that views dissenting from 'You're not to blame!' are not to be tolerated in this discussion. Sadly, usually the parents ARE to blame, by omission, or neglect, or failure to convey a clear set of behaviours and ethics in what is often a complex and confusing world for young people.
I can't believe people who are suggesting that the parenting style needs to change here are being badgered and silenced, while others with no apparent medical skills are being permitted to diagnose depression in the absence of the 'patient' and prescribe serious medication!
If the OP genuinely wants to resolve the situation they described, then they have a lot of work to do, but it is possible.
If they just want to feel better about not resolving the situation, then I've no doubt there will be those to provide them all the 'support' they need with that.

Just because I have not engaged with all posts does not reinforce my personal position or belief that i am "not to blame" - i feel it's not a "blame game" and would rather put my energy's into helping my child as best i can - I am taking on board ALL suggestions & comments people, including you, have taken time to post.

However, I believe your comments about the people being "silenced" or "badgered" are completely unfounded and unhelpful.

gagiteebo

Hi OP,

Reading through your posts it sounds like you are doing everything possible for your daughter and it is obvious you love and care for her very much so she is very lucky to have you I know that is of little consolation to you right now.

You spoke in your first post about boarding school. I am a teacher in an all boys' boarding school and I would really say to you to not send her to one in your current situation. The majority of the boys do not like being at boarding school and they are very angry about this as they feel they are being abandoned. This is taken out on teachers and other staff so really what you would be doing is shifting the problem to someone else. While it may not seem like it, she is better off with you at the moment.

The advice about the gardai is a good one imo. Also there have been a couple of boys at school who went completely off the rails and their parents took them out of boarding school and sent them to one of those bootcamps. I think there's a programme on telly at the minute Anyway they worked wonders and the boys changed completely and they were in far worse situations than your daughter. Maybe this is something you could consider?

Besf of luck

AvaKinder

OP -
I was going to PM but I since you're unreg I will post.#

I'm really sorry but I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread.
From your post, it's sounds like your daughter is very like me. I just wanted to say to you that although I understand using sending her to live with her father as a threat, I too had a volatile relationship with my father and when my mother used this as a threat it always made me feel ten times worse.

So please don't use sending to her to her fathers as a threat for bad behaviour. It's rarely effective, as you've seen, and often it makes the child feel even more miserable.

Cavehill Red

WorriedMom wrote: »

Just because I have not engaged with all posts does not reinforce my personal position or belief that i am "not to blame" - i feel it's not a "blame game" and would rather put my energy's into helping my child as best i can - I am taking on board ALL suggestions & comments people, including you, have taken time to post.

However, I believe your comments about the people being "silenced" or "badgered" are completely unfounded and unhelpful.

If you don't identify the cause of her problems and address that, then you are unlikely to help your child as best as you can.
Children don't act up as you describe for the craic. It's almost always the culmination of a long process of events and incidents that leads them to feel trapped in their protest behaviour of last resort.
And parents are never exempt from having contributed to that, as they are the most formative influences on any child.
Your child won't change if you won't change. That's not playing a blame game - it's being brave enough to pursue the problem right to its root and resolve it fundamentally.
Anyhow, you seem disinterested in what I have to say, even though I have previously resolved exactly this problem. Perhaps Vodkakat's contribution, which echoes mine from the child's perspective, may have more impact.
I have been badgered on this thread. So you can't tell me my feeling is unfounded. It's certainly been unhelpful, because I stepped into this thread with the sole intention of offering a potentially useful perspective and a proven strategy that works on this exact issue to you. I doubt I'll bother again.
I wish you the best of luck. If you're not prepared to speak to your child and get at the cause of her problems and address those, whatever they may be, then luck's all you're left with.

Nevyn

The site rules state no attacking the posters, and don't be a dick.
The forum rules state civil posting and being respectfull and suportive of other parents.
The site rules also state do not argue about moderation actions on the forum.
This is the last warning in this thread, ban will be just hand out after this.
If anyone has a complaint the can pm the mods or the cat mods about it.

LegacyUser

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If you don't identify the cause of her problems and address that, then you are unlikely to help your child as best as you can.
Children don't act up as you describe for the craic. It's almost always the culmination of a long process of events and incidents that leads them to feel trapped in their protest behaviour of last resort.
And parents are never exempt from having contributed to that, as they are the most formative influences on any child.
Your child won't change if you won't change. That's not playing a blame game - it's being brave enough to pursue the problem right to its root and resolve it fundamentally.
Anyhow, you seem disinterested in what I have to say, even though I have previously resolved exactly this problem. Perhaps Vodkakat's contribution, which echoes mine from the child's perspective, may have more impact.
I have been badgered on this thread. So you can't tell me my feeling is unfounded. It's certainly been unhelpful, because I stepped into this thread with the sole intention of offering a potentially useful perspective and a proven strategy that works on this exact issue to you. I doubt I'll bother again.
I wish you the best of luck. If you're not prepared to speak to your child and get at the cause of her problems and address those, whatever they may be, then luck's all you're left with.

I never said i was not prepared to speak to my child??? i have done nothing but talk to her about this at length and gotton professionals involved also. So Please stop twisting the facts.

As far as blame goes - You said parents are to blame - i merely said at this stage i don't feel its a about who's to blame - i wanted advice on how to help her, however, you have gone off topic on more than one occasion i.e... the moderators were out of order - and now You are being badgered? and say i am disinterested in what you have to say? i'll repeat again to you - i have taken your opinion/experience on board - but will not entertain or respond your off topic remarks either. thank you for sharing your experience on the matter.

LegacyUser

Vodkat wrote: »

I was similar to your daughter when i was 16. I refused to get up in the mornings. I never did my homework and i had an extremely poor attendance record. My background has some similar qualities as your daughters. My parents never married and my father was constantly in and out of our home. I wrote a diary and can count 16 times he left us. My mom is highly educated and had an extremely well paid job, until she had to retire early due to ill health. I have completely changed since i was 16, im now 21 and repeating my leaving cert so i can go to college and study midwifery. I hope i can help your daughter to understand what shes doing to her future and you're relationship.

The reason i believe i refused to go to school and get up when told is because i wanted to take some control of my life. I couldn't control whether my dad stayed or left. I had to watch my mom suffer an illness that i couldn't help. So i felt the need to control something and that was my education.

My Mom was tired of arguing and having to fight with me every day. She came up with a plan with the help of the schools guidance counselor. she wrote up a realistic list of house rules. There were 4. She kept them simple. She got me to sign a contract to obey the rules. And she explained what was to happen if i broke the rules. She called it the ''3 strike rule''. If i was to break the rules once she would deny my privileges: she stopped trying to get me up, she stopped doing my washing, she stopped cooking my dinner, she stopped my pocket money even, she took my phone off me and she ignored me. She said i didnt respect her so she wont respect me. i was told if i wanted dinner to cook it myself, And if i wanted to skip school then i would have to get a job because i would have to pay for my clothes etc, She explained that if i was to leave school then she wouldnt be getting a childrens allowance so therefore she would have no money to support me. For three days she refused to speak to me. She explained that my behaviour wont be tolerated in our home, she explained that i breached the rules of our contract and she was disappointed. Then during those three days i broke another rule I stayed out passed 12 i think. I returned to a locked house and there was a note on the door saying that she had pitched a tent in the garden for me and left out a sleeping bag. she said that if i didnt appreciate the warm bedroom that she provided for me then i dont deserve it. I was Furious. I know this sounds drastic. The next day she opened the door in the morning and had breakfast and tea left on the table. She sat down and we had a heart to heart. She said she understands why im so mad all the time and she says that she really wants to help me. She asked me what career i would like to have and what do i see my future being like? we both researched the paths that i could take to achieve what i wanted. And she was offering to get school grinds if i needed them. Eventually i began going back to school. She never thanked me... she said if she did then i would have seen that i was doing it for her not me. So she told me she was proud instead. I was glad that i was making her proud. I know repeating now but i had missed out on so much i didnt get the results i wanted so i took two years out to work and save so i could financially support myself when i decided to go back. I have soooooo much control over my life now and I have matured. I hope this helps your situation and if your daughter took a look at the post maybe that could help! If she needs someone who understands whats going on PM me i would love to help if possible, If she wants to chat!!

Hi Vodkat,
thank you for sharing this; and for the offer of my daughter to PM you - however, we are unregistered so this is not possible as yet, Your mom must be so proud of you and well done for turning it around...
best regards

LegacyUser

gagiteebo wrote: »

Hi OP,

Reading through your posts it sounds like you are doing everything possible for your daughter and it is obvious you love and care for her very much so she is very lucky to have you I know that is of little consolation to you right now.

You spoke in your first post about boarding school. I am a teacher in an all boys' boarding school and I would really say to you to not send her to one in your current situation. The majority of the boys do not like being at boarding school and they are very angry about this as they feel they are being abandoned. This is taken out on teachers and other staff so really what you would be doing is shifting the problem to someone else. While it may not seem like it, she is better off with you at the moment.

The advice about the gardai is a good one imo. Also there have been a couple of boys at school who went completely off the rails and their parents took them out of boarding school and sent them to one of those bootcamps. I think there's a programme on telly at the minute Anyway they worked wonders and the boys changed completely and they were in far worse situations than your daughter. Maybe this is something you could consider?

Besf of luck

Hi,
thanks for your response - that's a very good point about boarding school - i didn't think of it as shifting the problem onto the teachers tbh - i was thinking more like she'd have no choice but to go to class - and once her grades came up it'd be an incentive for her to continue.

I was watching that programme "teen's in the wild" also with my daughter. Are there bootcamps like that around?

I've rang the Junior Liason Officer and am waiting for them to call me back.

Cavehill Red

One last time, just for fun then.
I said: "If you're not prepared to speak to your child and get at the cause of her problems and address those, whatever they may be..."
Sure you've spoken to her. But you haven't got at the fundamental causes of her behaviour and addressed them, because otherwise her behaviour would have changed.
You used the word 'blame'. I prefer the word 'responsible', because it's more accurate and less emotive. You are responsible for your child's behaviour morally, ethically and even in part legally.
If the behaviour is wrong, or dysfunctional, then it is your responsibility to resolve it. If that involves accepting responsibility for your share in whatever has led to this, then that's what it takes to put the child back on track.
Once again, I wish you the best of luck. You will need it.
But by way of encouragement, I would tell you that my child managed a decent junior cert, hasn't missed school in a year, and was recently awarded for contributions to Young Social Innovator and Young Scientist projects.
And that all came despite two years of mostly missed school and four solid months of non-attendance before she entered my custody.
So no situation cannot be resolved. But it's a lot harder unless someone stands up and takes responsibility for the situation and then leads by example.
Or of course, there are meds and bootcamps if you don't want the responsibility.

tfitzgerald

seanybiker wrote: »

A few years back when my father was a guard he called to one gir friends house (his friend asked him to) and gave the son a good stern talking to. Dont know what he said but it worked.
Call into your local station and explain your problem to the JLO and see if he/she could help you out. Its worth a shot.

i actually did this when i discovered my 14 year old thought she was pregnant by another 14year old and the garda laughed at me and told me she was bold and in the real world i would not bother them with this sort of problem i have since taking her to a group called youth reach and she seems to have calmed down a bit at least the abuse been thrown around the house has

Nevyn

Given that WorriedMum is actively looking to get help for her and her daughter I would say she is trying to take on the parental responsiblity and it looking for suggestions on what to do.

LegacyUser

Furthermore - i believe that coming onto boards after persuing other avenues IS taking responsibility and accepting my duty as a parent to do all i can to get the best for my daughter - i came on here looking for other parents experience/help and suggestions.

Nevyn

WorriedMom the rules of not attacking other posters also aplies to you.
Please report posts for the mods to deal with and don't let certain people disrupt the thread.

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

WorriedMom the rules of not attacking other posters also aplies to you.
Please report posts for the mods to deal with and don't let certain people disrupt the thread.

sorry - didn't mean it as an attack, i agree completely with you. thanks

littlebitdull

Cavehill Red wrote: »

With due respect, you do have a home issue. You have a young man who is sleeping his life away in your house.

True he is causeing me worry and is an issue. However I was clearly saying I do not have issues within my marrage ....


In your case, probably only the enforcement of responsibilities is likely to have any effect at this time. He is, after all, an adult.
Kick him out of the house unless he gets up and leaves it at the same time you do, not returning until the same time you do. Take the house key off him. Demand he sign on and sign over his money in lieu of rent.

Really - you would honestly suggest kicking him out of his home? Putting him on the streets? - there is tough love and there is no love. He is not going to school. This is an annoyance and is pissing me and his father off big time. He is not however - stealing from me - doing drugs - being volent towards us or his siblings - causing me any other major stress. But for one thing I should throw him out of the house.

And as he is bigger and taller than I - I can not physically evict him when he decides not to get out of bed. So I should what - ?????

Sign on - are you for real ..... sign on for what?


If someone is spending all day everyday in bed, they possibly are significantly depressed.

I for one never said all day everyday ....


But if they're simply ducking chores and responsibilities while they get up and go out when it suits them to do so (such as the pub) then the likelihood is that they are not suffering a medical condition.

Nor did I say he was ducking chores or other things. Just school.

But thanks for all your positive imput and help. You've been great.

cbyrd

Hi there,
I'm sorry to hear how difficult you're finding this patch of parenting. I haven't gotten there yet my eldest is only 11 but i think you need to get back to basics on this one.

When a child is pushing the boundaries no matter what age they start with the control a parent takes. She won't go to school, fine she wants to be an adult then she can, so work out a rent. adults have to look after themselves so you can explain what you expect form her if she decides to leave school.

work out a price for the front door key,ie: if she's out past curfew the key gets taken away and she has to buy it back. Same with the bed she's not up by a certain time bedroom door is locked and she has to buy back the key. Where she get the money from?? Get a job.Give her a date that this will start.

A toddler will lie down on the ground and scream and roar, it doesn't care if you shout or if you cajole, it's getting attenion. Same applies here only in a more hurtful way. She is using the breakup to make you feel bad so you will give in, and in return she can see you giving in and has no respect for you.
You need to get the respect back!!
Speak to her, not at her, if she sees you are not going to let her walk over you she will know where the boundary line is and stop pushing.
And remember that hormones are playing a huge part in this too. she's 16 and to be honest doesn't know her ass from her elbow, remember she is still the child she's just bigger;) A book i found gave me a great insight to my little one's changing moods is The Female Brain by Dr. Louann Brizendine M. D. my american sister in law gave it to me.
and remember.... this too will pass
There is only so much a parent can do, after a time you have to say enough is enough you want your life here it is go for it.
Best of luck

Cavehill Red

littlebitdull wrote: »

True he is causeing me worry and is an issue. However I was clearly saying I do not have issues within my marrage ....

I think we both clarified the distinction here. Just because a parent is responsible for their children, especially if they're under adulthood, doesn't mean they themselves are delinquent if the children get into trouble. It just means they have a problem to address.

littlebitdull wrote: »

Really - you would honestly suggest kicking him out of his home? Putting him on the streets? - there is tough love and there is no love. He is not going to school. This is an annoyance and is pissing me and his father off big time. He is not however - stealing from me - doing drugs - being volent towards us or his siblings - causing me any other major stress. But for one thing I should throw him out of the house.

I really would propose it. He's 19, an adult, and not respecting the rules of your home. Perhaps he might prefer to try a home with other rules for a while? Or setting his own rules? He'll soon find they come with bills and responsibilities attached.
I'd sit him down and tell him that he can't continue being parasitic on others without seeking to become independent and better himself. Otherwise, what's going to happen when you're old and grey? Are you still going to run around after him?
You could set targets for attendance, and change the locks if he didn't meet them. Returning to the house would be dependent on signing a contract agreeing to attend school, be respectful at home, obey curfew on weekday nights, etc.

littlebitdull wrote: »

And as he is bigger and taller than I - I can not physically evict him when he decides not to get out of bed. So I should what - ?????

Wait till he goes out to the pub and change the locks. Or just change them with him there and don't give him a key.
I'm concerned that I'm reading too much into this, but it's twice you've mentioned his physical presence. Does his behaviour include physically threatening behaviour in any way?

littlebitdull wrote: »

Sign on - are you for real ..... sign on for what?

For whatever benefits he can get in lieu of getting a job, which he should be told he needs to start looking for if he won't go to school.

littlebitdull wrote: »

Nor did I say he was ducking chores or other things. Just school.

Okay, he's not depressed. He does his bit around the house. But there seems to be an atmosphere of some sort, because he's peeing off you and your partner.
If it's just the school, then you could look to change schools. But be sure it is that. It's possibly bigger than that.
Perhaps it's the academic work he's struggling with and doesn't want to admit that. Perhaps it's something else again. Like the OP, you're going to have to close in on the core issue and address that.
Best of luck with it.

LegacyUser

Hi, this is a difficult time for you and your daughter.

Have you tried these:

Carrot - does she have a school friend that she can go to and sleep over at theirs and go to school straight from theres? If so, try that first, then try a sleepover at yours, and 'spoil' them on that occasion, DVD's, music a bit louder than normal, food, make-up, mags, mobile phones, internet, whatever. Hopefully, she will want to go to school and be with her friend, and hopefully she has at least one friend that will do this with her. You will also need to be on good terms with the other Mother as you may want it to be a regular occurence.

Stick - when she 'misbehaves', by all means send her to her room but make sure her room has zero entertainment, maybe a few books, but thats all, no magazinesm no music, no TV, no DVD, no anything. Only then will it be a deterrent. All too often I hear of parents sending their kids to their rooms only for the room to be haven of entertainment that they can virtually live in.

As for underlying issues, the teenage years are complex and difficult for many and she may have 'issues' she needs to deal with. She will only be able to deal with then once she accepts that she has some 'issues' and can see a better way of living dealing with them and egtting over them, avoiding them, etc. If she has close firends, in school or elsewhere, this may help.

Good Luck, and keep persevering, its all you can do.

Mountainsandh

Hi OP, your daughter reminds me of me, except that I was a late bloomer, this all hit me around the age of 18-19.
My father was very badly depressed for a long time, it was a hard life because of that at home, and I took this as an excuse. Of course it had some bearing on my life, but I just really basically had to... grow up.

I was depressed, I started fearing a lot of situations, developping OCDs...

But my point is not the depression, your daughter may not be depressed, what I'm saying is that therapy (not for long, I quit after a few months) helped me grow up, it just brought on the "click" in my mind, it turned me into an adult. I had to face the facts : my life was my own, I couldn't just let myself be carried through it, and avoid facing responsibilities all the time, just because my Dad was depressed. I was blaming my Dad for everything that I didn't do, and that I knew I should be doing. I said to my therapist : "I need this, I need that..." (implying it was somebody else's fault for not delivering) and he just said : "do you need it, or do you want it ?" and then implied that if I wanted it, why wasn't I just making it my business to get it, rather than wait on other people to deliver. Boy did I hate him for that, and did I feel sorry for myself and hard done by
I hated hearing these things, but I kept going, and thinking, and thinking... and eventually it worked.

I suppose because your daughter is 16, she's nearly there, she's on the verge of taking that "growing up" step, and maybe like me, she's stuck in a rut and needs the help of therapy to set her off.

If you are in touch with the school liaison officer, it might be an idea to explain that your priority for the next while would be to get her to go to the counsellor, rather than school, and let her know too, and try like you have done before, but this time, just focus on the one thing : counsellor.

I disagree with Cavehill Red, I think you are doing everything you can for your child, and you are going about it the right way. But because there is school involved, at this moment in time it's just not working fast enough. If that's any comfort, with a concerned parent like you, she will come round I'm sure, sometime... Pity in her situation, you sort of have to rush her maturing a bit, it seems to come spontaneously to some kids around that age, but for others it's just not coming fast enough !
But like another poster said, a lot of people in different situations do make up for the ... delays, and end up qualifying for something at a later stage, and having happy and fulfilled lives. It's all easier if you do it earlier of course, and I understand how that worries you.

Cavehill Red, please consider that your theoretically and academically brilliant advice unfortunately does not apply to all children. Taking away priviledges, not responding to conflict/challenging behaviour with the like, being consistent, blah blah blah... Yes, that's wonderful, we've all read the books about this, or taken the course. In real life, this does not work on all children. What will work wonderfully on your child, and maybe on a majority of children, will unfortunately fail miserably with other kids. This lady is indeed taking responsibility, and also taking another route, since she seemingly has already taken the steps you describe, without success.

OP, goodluck with it, remember, it will happen sometime, with your support, so keep going. Sorry this is so long but I hope it helps.

Gaspode

Mountainsandh wrote: »

....... we've all read the books about this, or taken the course. In real life, this does not work on all children. What will work wonderfully on your child, and maybe on a majority of children, will unfortunately fail miserably with other kids.

Nail, head, hit!

OP hang in there, this too will pass.
Keep doing what you are doing, and keep the lines of communication open with your daughter.