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Fraudulent diamond certiificate

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  • 25-03-2010 2:45pm
    #1
    lorraine79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭


    Myself and my fiancee purchased my engagement ring in Antwerp at the end of January this year. We were very happy with the value we got. I wanted a good grade diamond so clarity and colour were my main focus. On Tuesday last I brought my ring to a reputable jewellers in dublin as I thought the clasps may need to be tightened as I recently noticed a rattling noise when I shake my hand. I decided to get it valued also. The assistant disappeared for a few minutes with my ring and the certificate I got with it, her manager returned telling me that the diamind and the cert did not match- it was of a much lesser clarity than stated and the diamond was supposed to be in the colourless group but actually has a pink hue running through it and looks like it may have also been filled with something. She couldn't value the ring for me but said we didn't pay over the odds for it. Obviously I am disgusted and disappointed. I'm not sure what to do next. Has anyone heard of this happening before?


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    #2
    cormicar
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭cormicar


    lorraine79 wrote: »
    Myself and my fiancee purchased my engagement ring in Antwerp at the end of January this year. We were very happy with the value we got. I wanted a good grade diamond so clarity and colour were my main focus. On Tuesday last I brought my ring to a reputable jewellers in dublin as I thought the clasps may need to be tightened as I recently noticed a rattling noise when I shake my hand. I decided to get it valued also. The assistant disappeared for a few minutes with my ring and the certificate I got with it, her manager returned telling me that the diamind and the cert did not match- it was of a much lesser clarity than stated and the diamond was supposed to be in the colourless group but actually has a pink hue running through it and looks like it may have also been filled with something. She couldn't value the ring for me but said we didn't pay over the odds for it. Obviously I am disgusted and disappointed. I'm not sure what to do next. Has anyone heard of this happening before?

    I'm sorry to hear that. I also bought my Fianee's ring in Antwerp. It never even crossed my mind that they could be selling fakes over there. If you are happy with your ring and you didn't pay over the odds, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Otherwise you could try contacting the dealer to seek a refund. Where did you buy it as a matter of interest?


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    #3
    KazDub
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭KazDub


    I have an engagement ring and eternity ring from Antwerp, both bought in Diamondland and both valued as much more than we (or should I say he?!!) paid for them. Have you contacted the jeweller that you bought your ring from? How did you pick this particular jeweller? I did all the research on Antwerp jewellers before we went over the first time for the engagement ring. There was one particular one which seemed to have many bad reviews posted about it. It would be interesting to know who you got the ring from. The jewellers closest to the train station are widely acknowledges to be the most expensive with few bargains. I assume you didn't go near them.


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    #4
    Blade
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Music Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,499 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blade


    Moved from BA


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    #5
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    lorraine79 wrote: »
    She couldn't value the ring for me but said we didn't pay over the odds for it. Obviously I am disgusted and disappointed. I'm not sure what to do next. Has anyone heard of this happening before?

    So you got what you paid for, except the certificate is not right (possibly a mistake). Before being disgusted and disappointed, you should contact the original retailer to find out why there is a discrepancy between the cert and what you bought. It could be a simple mistake.


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    #6
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Saying that the certificate is fraudulent is big assumption.

    It is possible that you were given the wrong certificate. I'd start by contacting the retailer and asking why you have a certificate for a different diamond.


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    #7
    lorraine79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭lorraine79


    As I said I wanted a diamond of a certain quality, I was told that the diamond I purchased was of the standard stated in the Certificate. If my budget did not allow for a diamond of the quality I required I would have compromised on size. The diamond is of a much lesser quality than I was led to believe. The shop was called Emerald bvba, one of the first shops on exiting the train station.


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    #8
    ShatterProof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭ShatterProof


    lorraine79 wrote: »
    As I said I wanted a diamond of a certain quality
    What differnence does it make, you cant tell them difference
    lorraine79 wrote: »
    ....If my budget did not allow for a diamond of the quality I required I would have compromised on size......
    had you no research done before ?

    anyway whats the problem , you got what you paid for.


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    #9
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Have you tried to contact the shop yet?


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    #10
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ShatterProof wrote: »
    What differnence does it make, you cant tell them difference.
    A jeweller could tell the difference, so its resale value is now less than expected if there ever came a time they needed to sell it. Doesn't really matter if the OP can tell the difference or not, if they bought a bar of gold which was only plated it would be the same thing really, it still has some gold in it but is not worth as much as originally valued at, which is sort of what the original seller did.
    ShatterProof wrote: »
    you got what you paid for.
    Not really, the irish jeweller saying they didn't pay over the odds for it is not the point, they could have being just nice to them to lessen the upset. Another analogy would be me trying to get a PC valued for insurance reasons. If I was told had 4GB of ram when it only had 1GB, I might not be knowledgeable enough to notice the difference in performance but I might have bought it from the deceitful seller on the basis it was a good price for 4GB. If the price I paid was the going rate for 1GB I should still complain, as I was deceived and now my insurance valuation will be less.

    If the diamond turned out to be just glass it would be the same thing to me, just even more of a loss, even if the OP could not tell the difference between glass & a diamond and they were lead to believe it was valuable and was not. Could be a fake or "initially overvalued" painting or anything.


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    #11
    lorraine79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭lorraine79


    ShatterProof wrote: »
    What differnence does it make, you cant tell them difference

    had you no research done before ?

    anyway whats the problem , you got what you paid for.

    Of course I did research beforehand, hence I knew exactly what I wanted. I didn't know how much it woud cost, now because I dont have a valid cert I can't get the ring valued for insurance purposes.I also have a much crappier diamond...


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    #12
    lorraine79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭lorraine79


    dudara wrote: »
    Have you tried to contact the shop yet?

    Yes I emailed them. Th replied saying they would look into it ,that was two day ago. The guy who mailed is the guy we dealt with so not very confident.I will ring the Antwerp World Diamond Center tomorrow.


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    #13
    jimoc
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭jimoc


    lorraine79 wrote: »
    Of course I did research beforehand, hence I knew exactly what I wanted. I didn't know how much it woud cost, now because I dont have a valid cert I can't get the ring valued for insurance purposes.I also have a much crappier diamond...

    Do you actually need to get it valued for insurance purposes, wouldn't the original receipt be enough to show the value of it?


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    #14
    lorraine79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭lorraine79


    I'm not 100% sure if I need to get valuation for insurance purposes but the point is the product I was sold does not fit the description I was led to believe it did. I want to ensure this does not happen to other people and I do not want to give business to someone who is deceitful.


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    #15
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    You should also bring it to a 2nd jeweller, in case the one you brought it to made a mistake in their evaluation, or deliberately misled you.


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    #16
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    jor el wrote: »
    You should also bring it to a 2nd jeweller, in case the one you brought it to made a mistake in their evaluation, or deliberately misled you.
    Reading again it seems very odd. The OP decided to get it valued, no doubt willing to pay for this, then the jeweller refused to value it, yet said they did not pay over the odds. In a way it could be in their interest to bad mouth the idea of people buying jewellery abroad, keeping business in "trusthworthy Irish jewellers", where the exact same thing could happen of course.

    I remember I used to go to get stuff in the army shops in little mary street in town, they were all in a line at the time, now the best one has moved. I remember in one shop they always used spot people who bought stuff in one of the other shops and point out that they were cheaper and far better quality.


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    #17
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    is this just a case of the jewellers in antwerp selling average sized/clarity diamonds and telling customers they are getting a huge discount(something for nothing) but in fact they get exactly what they paid for?


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    #18
    johno2
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭johno2


    lorraine79 wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure if I need to get valuation for insurance purposes but the point is the product I was sold does not fit the description I was led to believe it did. I want to ensure this does not happen to other people and I do not want to give business to someone who is deceitful.

    I don't understand why you have a problem at all. What is the diamond in your engagement ring for? I'm guessing it's for looking at, showing it to people and admiring it. Well you looked at it and admired it and you were happy with it until someone else told you it wasn't as nice as you thought it was. Forget about resale value btw, you can't sell a secondhand diamond back to a dealer for anything like what you paid for it. Diamonds supplies are rationed to keep them highly valued and the prices are artifically inflated beyond their real values by the DeBeers cartel. They have warehouse full of diamonds and have no use for the stone you are trying to sell back to them. Every diamond dealer in Antwerp is deceiving you if you pay the prices they ask for. If you just wanted a stone nicer than the diamond someone else has you should have got a manmade diamond. Diamond Nexus Labs sell cut stones for about $100 per carat. And they're guaranteed flawless.

    johno


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    #19
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    johno2 wrote: »
    I don't understand why you have a problem at all. What is the diamond in your engagement ring for? I'm guessing it's for looking at, showing it to people and admiring it. Well you looked at it and admired it and you were happy with it until someone else told you it wasn't as nice as you thought it was. Forget about resale value btw, you can't sell a secondhand diamond back to a dealer for anything like what you paid for it. Diamonds supplies are rationed to keep them highly valued and the prices are artifically inflated beyond their real values by the DeBeers cartel. They have warehouse full of diamonds and have no use for the stone you are trying to sell back to them. Every diamond dealer in Antwerp is deceiving you if you pay the prices they ask for. If you just wanted a stone nicer than the diamond someone else has you should have got a manmade diamond. Diamond Nexus Labs sell cut stones for about $100 per carat. And they're guaranteed flawless.

    johno

    Valid argument,

    But you could apply the same thing to buying a Ford Mondeo because it essentially has the same components as a Jaguar X Type.

    Items are valued at what people will pay for them. I guess you feel somehow irritated about why people want to buy an overpriced rock, but thats up to them really.

    Jees.. I could say the same thing about 90% of the people who bought a house in Ireland in the last 5 years.

    The point of the valuation is for when your insure it not to sell it on again. In this way if you lose it you can claim for what you paid for it. The reason the Valuation is higher in Ireland is because thats what the going market there will pay for it, ergo, replacement by an Insurance company would be higher than what you paid for it on the market in Belgium. It doesn't mean its 'worth' anymore because you couldn't sell it for that amount anyway.

    OP, I'd call the Jewelers and get advise on the situation, they could have just mixed the Certs up. People are human, they make mistakes. You might have gotten the diamond you paid for and got a Cert for a different one altogether.

    If you feel hard done by contact the ADJA (If their in the ADJA)
    http://www.adja.be/
    And get advice from them.

    In my opinion though, Ireland is incredibly overpriced for Jewelery, from the prices i've seen they charge well over the odds and don't really have a great selection. Even by going to the continent (or even the UK) your going to a market where theres much more competition, most of the Diamonds come through Amsterdam and Antwerp anyway.


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    #20
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    is this just a case of the jewellers in antwerp selling average sized/clarity diamonds and telling customers they are getting a huge discount(something for nothing) but in fact they get exactly what they paid for?
    :confused:But they did not get exactly what they paid for. I talked about RAM before, if pcworld had 1GB for €50 and peats had fake 4GB for €50 I would go with peats under the assumption it was real and a good bargain. It does not matter if I can not instantly tell the difference or not, I bought it on that basis due to a confidence trick. It is not exactly what they paid for, the jeweller said it was not "over the odds" (which I said could just be humouring her), if they went to another dealer in antwerp they might have got the genuine article for the same price which would have a higher resale value.
    johno2 wrote: »
    you can't sell a secondhand diamond back to a dealer for anything like what you paid for it.
    I cannot sell the 1GB/4GB of ram back to peats for the same price either, but I would still get more for a genuine 4GB one than a fake 4GB one.
    keithclancy wrote: »
    The point of the valuation is for when your insure it not to sell it on again. In this way if you lose it you can claim for what you paid for it.
    If lost you claim back the money, yes, and in this case she now gets less than what she would have if the article was genuine. She does NOT claim back what she paid for it, if that was the case I could not insure something I won, or I would get a very minimal amount back for something I got for a very low price in an auction.

    People here seem to be getting all caught up in the fact it is a diamond, and it is not surprising that people frequenting the consumers forum have a cynical view of the diamond trade and associated traditions, I certainly do but that should not come into it. If this person had been in Hong Kong and picked up a cheap memory card or camera which was really an item of lesser value then I expect there would have been quite different responses. If I had shopped around hong kong, wasting valuable holiday time, and got a cheap 4GB stick of ram and came home and a PC shop said "its only 1GB, but you paid what it is for 1GB here" I would still be pissed off.

    I expect some couples might take a trip to places like this specifically to save money, I know a guy who bought a Tag Heuer watch from a authorised dealer in the canaries and the saving in effect paid for the holiday.


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