Chelsea vs Aston Villa // 3:00pm // 27th March (EPL)

Raekwon

BastardPrince wrote: »

eh who exactly is bashing him? since when is saying a person is good but not great at what they do bashing?

Well he is hardly been heaped with praise now is he? If you read the Villa thread later I guarantee you will see a good few "MON out!" posts (not have a pop at you Helix) which I find ridiculous. One bad defeat does not make a season and not one Villa fan expected anything from todays gave today anyway.

flahavaj

ntlbell wrote: »

MON out?

Not at all. Just hopefully the silly talk you hear about him someday managing at a big club at United will be quelled.

He's overrated thats all.

opr

Made two attempts to read that noodler and had to give up.

Opr

noodler

JPA wrote: »

It's pure jealousy that MON gets praise and other managers don't.
And as for money spent, MON started in a position where the squad was worth next to nothing so net spend is high.


Also, United fans angry at Villa,don't know what to make of that.

Thats a good point.

You are starting to sound a little bitter with all your owner comments AL, i.e. "he's not so great, its only because he has owners that back him" etc.

I don't think we should completely disregard the improvements he has made at Villa Park because of this.

MementoMori

Seeing as looks to be relevant to the discussion.

Cost of the Villa squad

Brad Friedel £2m
Luke Young £5m £500k
Wilfred Bouma £3.5m
Steve Sidwell £5m
Stewart Downing £12m
Ashley Young £8m £1.75m
James Milner £12m
Marlon Harewood £4m
John Carew Swap with Baros (who cost £5m)
Gabriel Agbonlahor Youth
Marc Albrighton Youth
Nathan Delfouneso Youth
Curtis Davies £10m
Fabian Delph £6m £2m
Moustapha Salifou Free
Emile Heskey £3.5m
Stiliyan Petrov £6.5m £1.5m
Nigel Reo-Coker £8.5m
Nicky Shorey £3.5m
Brad Guzan £600k
Habib Beye £2.5m
Carlos Cuéllar £7.8m
Stephen Warnock £6m £2m
Ciaran Clark Youth
Richard Dunne £6m
James Collins £5m
Andy Marshall Free

Esse85

ntlbell wrote: »

MON out?

Correct

noodler

opr wrote: »

Made two attempts to read that noodler and had to give up.

Opr

Hey, you are very good and all, keeping up the party line.

However, if you would like anything explained to you then go ahead - it is all pretty much in on-line points though. Not entirely sure what your comprhension issues are.

Helix

Sizzler wrote: »

Does MON still have the receipt?

He is championship standard at best. Hammers must have been breaking their hoop laughing when he bid for him

Big Cas said last night on today FM Chelsea were in miserable form lol

collins has been brilliant for us this season to be fair

hes been a super signing, and im no o'neill fan

Johner

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

daithijjj

flahavaj wrote: »

With the money he's spent he should have assembled a squad that's capable of challenging on several fronts.

LOL 7. Embarrassment.

Well thats a bit 'rich' from a fan of united to be honest. Villas full squad cost the same as 5 united players.

DazMarz

Come to daddy... That will be all...

ROCKMAN

WOW
7-1
Well done Chelsea
CHD hope you enjoyed that ,mate

Hopefully I'll be as happy at 7.30ish

noodler

Sizzler wrote: »

Does MON still have the receipt?

He is championship standard at best. Hammers must have been breaking their hoop laughing when he bid for him

Big Cas said last night on today FM Chelsea were in miserable form lol

That is a little reactionist, isn't it? Himself and Dunne were being (rightly) praised to the hilt earlier in the season.

Raekwon

flahavaj wrote: »

With the money he's spent he should have assembled a squad that's capable of challenging on several fronts.

LOL 7. Embarrassment.

Eh.........League Cup Finalists, FA Cup Semi-Finalists (so far!) and upto about a week ago, Champions League qualification contenders :rolleyes:

dr.bollocko

Bloody hell. Some confident results for Chelsea. The Utd. Vs Chelsea clash has even more meaning now. Talk about piling the pressure on Utd before Bolton game. Utd only need 6 now tonight to draw level on GD

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Thats a good point.

You are starting to sound a little bitter with all your owner comments AL, i.e. "he's not so great, its only because he has owners that back him" etc.

I don't think we should completely disregard the improvements he has made at Villa Park because of this.

I amn't disregarding wat he's done, i think talk of getting rid of him is silly. I just think its hardly right to be praising him calling him a great manager.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

I amn't disregarding wat he's done, i think talk of getting rid of him is silly. I just think its hardly right to be praising him calling him a great manager.

Again, I'll downgrade to very good if it makes it go down any easier.

That he is high in my estimation is the point - I really can't help but sense a degree of begrudgery over the funds issues of his club and ours though.

ntlbell

Raekwon wrote: »

Eh.........League Cup Finalists, FA Cup Semi-Finalists (so far!) and upto about a week ago, Champions League qualification contenders :rolleyes:

Also, I don't see why they're not contenders?

People regard Liverpool to be still contenders for 4th on the same points and games as Villa, why not Villa?

MementoMori

ntlbell wrote: »

Also, I don't see why they're not contenders?

People regard Liverpool to be still contenders for 4th on the same points and games as Villa, why not Villa?

Probably a combination of Villa's recent performances and their collapse from last season.

Also Torres.

Raekwon

Mr Alan wrote: »

Moyes, while over-rated hasn't had anywhere near the backing o'neill has.

We both know that is bóllox!

Just an example of 3 players he signed over the last 3 years of his 8 year reign that cost a combined today of £36 million.

£15 million - Marouane Fellaini
£12 million - Aiyegbeni Yakubu
£9 million - Diniyar Bilyaletdinov

noodler

MementoMori wrote: »

Probably a combination of Villa's recent performances and their collapse from last season.

Also Torres.

The collapse one has been used against them a fair bit, I would have thought personally that it would mean they would be mentally tougher this season but have probably not as it turns out.

Spurs have been known to bottle 4th as well.

Bukman13

Pat Dolan

"Well. I thought Lampard was the difference today."

Clever bloke!!

Sizzler

noodler wrote: »

That is a little reactionist, isn't it? Himself and Dunne were being (rightly) praised to the hilt earlier in the season.

I wasnt basing my opinion of collins just on today, I said hes been muck anytime I have seen him. Dunne carrying him by the looks and today even the honey monster couldnt mask his shortcomings.

Raekwon

ntlbell wrote: »

Also, I don't see why they're not contenders?

People regard Liverpool to be still contenders for 4th on the same points and games as Villa, why not Villa?

Liverpool have two of the best players in the world in Gerrard & Torres........Villa don't have players of that calibre, simple as that.

Helix

Sizzler wrote: »

I wasnt basing my opinion of collins just on today, I said hes been muck anytime I have seen him. Dunne carrying him by the looks and today even the honey monster couldnt mask his shortcomings.

you havent seen much of him then, coz hes been almost as good as dunne

BERBA

noodler wrote: »

Spurs have been known to bottle 4th as well.

7 pts clear of villa and pool
and an fa cup final to look forward to. Happy days !

MementoMori

Raekwon wrote: »

We both know that is bóllox!

Just an example of 3 players he signed over the last 3 years of his 8 year reign that cost a combined today of £36 million.

£15 million - Marouane Fellaini
£12 million - Aiyegbeni Yakubu
£9 million - Diniyar Bilyaletdinov

The current Villa squad cost pretty much twice the cost of the Everton squad.

Taking isolated examples won't disprove this.

everdead.ie

BERBA wrote: »

7 pts clear of villa and pool
and an fa cup semi final to look forward to. Happy days !

FYP you never know whats going to happen could be a completly different team that comes out that day and Daws could be out for a while too

PHB

Chelsea are putting together an impressive goal difference which I think could come into play.

Raekwon

Helix wrote: »

you havent seen much of him then, coz hes been almost as good as dunne

Collins has been absolutely superb this season.........it's also kind of ironic that he scored the winner when Villa beat Chelsea 2-1 at Villa Park this season isn't it?

LeBash

Raekwon wrote: »

Liverpool have two of the best players in the world in Gerrard & Torres........Villa don't have players of that calibre, simple as that.

Outside of your keeper, Torres and Gerrard Liverpool dont have another player in the first eleven that would take a Villa shirt, but those 3 are good enough and have proven it, that they can drag the convayer belt of mediocrity that Liverpool FC have been since the premiership started over the line, and I envy Liverpool for it as well.

MementoMori

noodler wrote: »

The collapse one has been used against them a fair bit, I would have thought personally that it would mean they would be mentally tougher this season but have probably not as it turns out.

Spurs have been known to bottle 4th as well.

See I think a large part of the collapse is down to MON's refusal/inability to rotate/rest players/effectively use the full squad. It's not as if the same group of players have become bad players all of a sudden - it's just that they are tired and fatigued. People say that they re professional and that fatigue/tiredness/stamina shouldn't come into it but this is plainly just nonsense. However if a large number of players' performance drop 5 or 10%, that can make a big difference to the results.

I'm fully expecting/hoping for Spurs to bottle it as well.
The difference with Spurs is I expect them to do it in some sort of imaginative innovative manner.

ntlbell

Raekwon wrote: »

Liverpool have two of the best players in the world in Gerrard & Torres........Villa don't have players of that calibre, simple as that.

Milner has been far superiror to gerrad this season IMHO

Raekwon

MementoMori wrote: »

The current Villa squad cost pretty much twice the cost of the Everton squad.

Taking isolated examples won't disprove this.

What are you talking about?

Mr. Alan said that Martin O'Neill has got more backing in the transfer market than David Moyes........I showed an example of how that is not the case.

And saying that the current Villa squad has cost twice as much as Everton's current squad is very much wide of the mark. I'd say there is like something like £10m between them. Moyes has been shrewder though, Cahill (£1.5m) & Arteta (£2m) were absolutely amazing signings.

Raekwon

ntlbell wrote: »

Milner has been far superiror to gerrad this season IMHO

That is true........but we don't have a Torres and that is a major difference. A prime example was Liverpool's 1-0 win at Villa Park, one moment of magic from Torres was all it took to turn 1 point into 3.

ntlbell

Raekwon wrote: »

That is true........but we don't have a Torres and that is a major difference. A prime example was Liverpool's 1-0 win at Villa Park, one moment of magic from Torres was all it took to turn 1 point into 3.

which is really irrelvant your 7 remaining games aren't against liverpool.

BERBA

Raekwon wrote: »

That is true........but we don't have a Torres and that is a major difference. A prime example was Liverpool's 1-0 win at Villa Park, one moment of magic from Torres was all it took to turn 1 point into 3.

to be fair we havent seen many of those magic moments from torres or gerrard this season

Raekwon

ntlbell wrote: »

Who were bought at a compltley different time evaluations balooned in years after they were bought.

How so? 2004 & 2005 were in the boom era for football transfers, Chelsea were spending hundreds of millions back then, as were Madrid (nothing new there) but to hammer the point home Everton has just received £30m of Wayne Rooney!!!

MementoMori

Raekwon wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Mr. Alan said that Martin O'Neill has got more backing in the transfer market than David Moyes........I showed an example of how that is not the case.

And saying that the current Villa squad has cost twice as much as Everton's current squad is very much wide of the mark. I'd say there is like something like £10m between them. Moyes has been shrewder though, Cahill (£1.5m) & Arteta (£2m) were absolutely amazing signings.

Everton Squad

Carlo Nash £300k
Tony Hibbert Youth
Leighton Baines £5m
Joseph Yobo £5.25m
John Heitinga £7.04
Phil Jagielka £4m
Diniyar Bilyaletdinov£8.9
Louis Saha Undisclosed
Mikel Arteta £2m
Iain Turner £50k
Tim Cahill £1.5m
Phil Neville £3.5m
Steven Pienaar £2.35m
Leon Osman Youth
Yakubu Aiyegbeni £11.25m
Tim Howard £3m
Marouane Fellaini £15m
Jack Rodwell Youth
Phillipe Senderos Loan
Victor Anichebe Youth
Shane Duffy Youth
Dan Gosling £1.5m
Kieran Agard Youth
Jose Baxter Youth
James Wallace Youth

Total of £71.14m

Saha is undisclosed but the sum can't exactly have been much considering he was supposedly on a pay-for-play contract when he arrived.

So MON has spent the bones of £50m more than Moyes.

Clearly they haven't been equally backed in the transfer market.

the_monkey

GET IN THERE !!!!!!

7-1 !!!! LEGEND .... nice to see Arsenal dropping points aswell....

LeBash

MementoMori wrote: »

Everton Squad

Carlo Nash £300k
Tony Hibbert Youth
Leighton Baines £5m
Joseph Yobo £5.25m
John Heitinga £7.04
Phil Jagielka £4m
Diniyar Bilyaletdinov£8.9
Louis Saha Undisclosed
Mikel Arteta £2m
Iain Turner £50k
Tim Cahill £1.5m
Phil Neville £3.5m
Steven Pienaar £2.35m
Leon Osman Youth
Yakubu Aiyegbeni £11.25m
Tim Howard £3m
Marouane Fellaini £15m
Jack Rodwell Youth
Phillipe Senderos Loan
Victor Anichebe Youth
Shane Duffy Youth
Dan Gosling £1.5m
Kieran Agard Youth
Jose Baxter Youth
James Wallace Youth

Total of £71.14m

Saha is undisclosed but the sum can't exactly have been much considering he was supposedly on a pay-for-play contract when he arrived.

So MON has spent the bones of £50m more than Moyes.

Clearly they haven't been equally backed in the transfer market.

Moyles also bought Johnson for 8 million, and had a misfit winger there that couldnt get his game that was bout for about 12. Im sure you'll know who Im talking about. They have had to sell like Villa as well eg Barry and Lescott.

In fairness to O'Neill, he has had to spend cause when he got there the team was bare bones and the bench was untested kids or washouts like Djemba Djemba.

I wouldnt say there is as much as 50 million in it

MementoMori

BERBA wrote: »

to be fair we havent seen many of those magic moments from torres or gerrard this season

You're right about Gerrard but Torres has scored 16 league goals in 1564 mins on the pitch (just under 17 and a half full games). That's a goal every 98 mins he on the pitch.

...and that's been playing in a team which has been performing very poorly will a very mixed level of service a lot of the time. Pretty special in my book

Raekwon

MementoMori wrote: »

So MON has spent the bones of £50m more than Moyes.

Moyes has been at Everton for 8 years. O'Neill has been with Villa for 4 years. And considering Moyes was spunking £15m on the likes of James Beattie & Andrew Johnson while MON was still at Celtic I seriously doubt that MON has out spent him in his 4 years with Villa.

But I couldn't give a fúcking toss anyway...........my team has just been beaten 7-1 and are out of the race for a top 4 finish. I'm in a state of depression right now.

Gonzovision

great result great performance great atmosphere. Go on the Blues!!!!!

MementoMori

LeBash wrote: »

Moyles also bought Johnson for 8 million, and had a misfit winger there that couldnt get his game that was bout for about 12. Im sure you'll know who Im talking about. They have had to sell like Villa as well eg Barry and Lescott.

In fairness to O'Neill, he has had to spend cause when he got there the team was bare bones and the bench was untested kids or washouts like Djemba Djemba.

I wouldnt say there is as much as 50 million in it

I think Johnson bought Moyles for £8.5 but then he sold him for £10.5m to Fulham. I'm not saying Moyles hasn't received some backing in the transfer market but the level of backing MON has received has been at a higher level.

Posted the current Villa squad a few pages back - the current squad cost around £121m. At a guess I'd say Villa's wage bill is a bit higher than Villa as well.

I don't think looking at the net spend would change matters all that much as Moyles has probably done a fair bit better in what he received for players he moved on (Lescott, Rooney, Johnson)

The arguement was that MON and Moyles have received equivalent backing in the transfer market and that simply isn't true. Currently there is roughly £50m in the difference in the price of squad, which when you consider the Everton squad cost around £70m is a massive gap in terms of the level of backing the two managers have received.

The initial statement was that MON has received similiar levels of backing to Moyles and Redknapp which given the current Spurs squad was assembled for around £180m is clearly nonsense.

LeBash

MementoMori wrote: »

I think Johnson bought Moyles for £8.5 but then he sold him for £10.5m to Fulham. I'm not saying Moyles hasn't received some backing in the transfer market but the level of backing MON has received has been at a higher level.

Posted the current Villa squad a few pages back - the current squad cost around £121m. At a guess I'd say Villa's wage bill is a bit higher than Villa as well.

I don't think looking at the net spend would change matters all that much as Moyles has probably done a fair bit better in what he received for players he moved on (Lescott, Rooney, Johnson)

The arguement was that MON and Moyles have received equivalent backing in the transfer market and that simply isn't true. Currently there is roughly £50m in the difference in the price of squad, which when you consider the Everton squad cost around £70m is a massive gap in terms of the level of backing the two managers have received.

The initial statement was that MON has received similiar levels of backing to Moyles and Redknapp which given the current Spurs squad was assembled for around £180m is clearly nonsense.

But think outside the current squad. I understand Moyles is in the job alot longer, but Randy wont open up the purse as easy next year, and will tighten it up again the year after id imagine.

Without doubt though Moyles has bought extreamly well with only the odd exception.

MementoMori

LeBash wrote: »

But think outside the current squad. I understand Moyles is in the job alot longer, but Randy wont open up the purse as easy next year, and will tighten it up again the year after id imagine.

Without doubt though Moyles has bought extreamly well with only the odd exception.

Well given the shocking state of Everton's finances, I'd expect Villa to comfortably outspend Everton over the next few years.

According to Everton supporters the only reason Everton were able to buy anyone at all last summer was because of the sale of Lescott to City.

homer simpson

lads this is a match thread for the chelsea villa game if its not on that topic please doint be posting here, if you wana discuss various teams managers please go to that them's thread if it has one, and please stopp spamming about how great spurs are cos they are pure and utter dung and will not finish 4th, stop cluttering the chelsea villa match thread Rant over


Well done chelsea today, Villa were bad but we were still ruthless great result to spur us on now, but when we face UTD its a totally different prospect but i have faith we call do one over them.....

everdead.ie

homer_simpson wrote: »

lads this is a match thread for the chelsea villa game if its not on that topic please doint be posting here, if you wana discuss various teams managers please go to that them's thread if it has one, and please stopp spamming about how great spurs are cos they are pure and utter dung and will not finish 4th, stop cluttering the chelsea villa match thread Rant over


Well done chelsea today, Villa were bad but we were still ruthless great result to spur us on now, but when we face UTD its a totally different prospect but i have faith we call do one over them.....

Just trying to put in prespective villa's spending compared to the teams around them it's all very similar in reality Chelsea where the better team today but there are obviously problems if villa are unable to perform consistently for a 38 game season

Xavi6

A lot of off topic crap has been deleted.

Discuss this game and this game only.