Advice needed for 5.1 system, €2000 budget.

C14N

I'm planning on getting a new home cinema this summer. I expect to spend about €2000 on an amp plus speakers, but it's been a while since I last did research on the subject and since then I don't know what speakers are good to go for anymore. I already have a PS3 Slim so I don't need a Bluray player.

Can anyone offer some recommendations on what to get?

Btw, I'll probably be shopping in Dublin and the only shops I know really are Sevenoaks and Cloney so if anyone knows any others then I'd appreciate that help too.

higster

check out here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1105

cdb

I'd recommend checking out the Denon 1910 or 2310 AV receivers.

Speakers are a personal choice to be honest so try to narrow down your choice by deciding on small 'lifestyle' speakers or traditional floorstander & satellites.

Richersounds will work out way cheaper than Cloney & Seven Oaks and should definitely be on your list. The RS shop is in Belfast but they ship to addresses in the south, often for less than £20. They also own the Philips shop on Dame St so they have a presence in Dublin. Read the stickies linked to in the post above. Good luck with your purchases

C14N

cdb wrote: »

I'd recommend checking out the Denon 1910 or 2310 AV receivers.

Speakers are a personal choice to be honest so try to narrow down your choice by deciding on small 'lifestyle' speakers or traditional floorstander & satellites.

Richersounds will work out way cheaper than Cloney & Seven Oaks and should definitely be on your list. The RS shop is in Belfast but they ship to addresses in the south, often for less than £20. They also own the Philips shop on Dame St so they have a presence in Dublin. Read the stickies linked to in the post above. Good luck with your purchases

I was hoping to go for the traditional ones. I've never been pulled in much by the whole "lifestyle" thing. Anything that would be good in this range?

I haven't ever dealt with Richersounds so I can't comment but I'd prefer to have a place more local so if anything goes wrong I can get my warranty easily and since I'll want it to be installed. Also, Richersounds don't seem to have a massive amount of choice (looking at the site) and there isn't really much of a saving between the RS amp prices on the Denons and the ones I've been offered by the shop (about 20 quid).

MAJJ

+++++++++++1 for RS.

In terms of looking after customers, they go over and above ANY company in any industry I have had a contact with. Don't be limited by the range you see on the .ie site go to .com. Best bet is to post up your query and let John quote for you. He's the MD it's not often you see an MD so hands on and so so helpful, he really gets the words customers and service.

Best of luck with your purchase. I've bought many times from them so it's just my experience plus that of folks I've sent there way.

With your budget you will get a great system. I spent about that a few years back and went with a KEF style system and an Onkyo amp. Very, very good. Have since changed the system to stereo Monitor Audio floorstanders and have no regrets.

Best of luck with the system, also price in quality interconnects and speaker cable (there's a deal to be done) also RS do installation.

F.Galway

+1 for RS aswell they truly are exceptional!

They will always try to give you the best deal that they possibly can and after sales is great too!They always give good honest advice an what will give you best for your buck.

System wise maybe something along the lines of an Onkyo 807 or a Denon 2310.
Speakers worth considering might be Kef 3005 for discrete and maybe Jamo

Hope this helps ya.

C14N

I didn't think they did installation. In that case it can't hurt to stick up a request and see what I get.

Idleater

cdb wrote: »

Richersounds will work out way cheaper than Cloney & Seven Oaks and should definitely be on your list.

While I agree that RS are cheaper than Cloney you are not comparing like with like, because generally what Cloney offer is much higher up the audio scale than the stuff in RS. Even Sevenoaks would be generally higher end of the brands carried by RS.

However, for the budget of €2k, I'd think that you would get more equipment from RS. The system 4 idea from cloney audio would be close (with excellent B&W speakers) when you remove the BD player.

As with Hi-Fi in general, the less money you throw at it, the more compromises (audio wise) you make, but after a point, the more money you throw at it, the less that increase in audio quality can be noticed assuming an imperfect listening environment.

What you could do, is go for for a good 2.0 (or 2.1 if you want) system and expand the surround speakers as you go. I have basically done this, with a pair of System Audio XP-30's and a combination of B&W M-1 and CCM-50's for surround duties.

lethal dose

Have to agree with previous poster. As for RS there are great to deal with no worries on that front. I have bought most of my stuff from them over the years, never a hiccup! I have a Denon AVR1906 and it's does what I want it to do very well so I can whole heartedly give them the thumbs up. I also went with the Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 system and later upgraded to a pair of 9.1's to the front. It all depends on what your plans are and if you plan upgrading in the coming years.

cdb

nereid wrote: »

While I agree that RS are cheaper than Cloney you are not comparing like with like, because generally what Cloney offer is much higher up the audio scale than the stuff in RS. Even Sevenoaks would be generally higher end of the brands carried by RS.

However, for the budget of €2k, I'd think that you would get more equipment from RS. The system 4 idea from cloney audio would be close (with excellent B&W speakers) when you remove the BD player...

I don't want to go off thread here but I have to disagree.

You highlight Cloney's 'System 4' advertised as less than €3,000.

System 4 ( < €3,000.-)
Denon BD60 Blu-Ray Player
Denon AVR1909 AV Receiver
B&W 685 Theatre Package (685 Front with stands, 686 Rear with stands, HTM62 Center and ASW608 Sub



RS do not sell the B&W 685 theatre package but for comparison purposes, the package has an RRP of £1206 according to Whathifi link

Richersounds do sell the newer model Denon 1910 for £379 Post 48

They also recently advertised the Pioneer BD60 at £99 Post 27 (Denon BD60??)

or how about the superior Denon DBP-2010 for £599 post 29

So a superior AV / blu-ray player combination for £478 in addition to the £1206 for the 685's would give us a grand total of £1684 (€1872 today on xe.com)

Or the far superior AV / blu-ray player combination for £978 plus the B&W's would give us £2184. (€2428)

If the OP was to replace the B&W entry level home theatre speakers with say a full set of speakers from KEF or Monitor Audio (example)he would have a system that would compete with Cloney's offering for less than his budget of €2000. So not only would he would get more for less but it would be as good if not better.

Idleater

cdb wrote: »

Richersounds do sell the newer model Denon 1910 for £379 Post 48

If we are comparing special offers/open box/eol stuff we might as well throw a s/h krell showcase into the mix, which would blow anything you mention out of the water sound wise.

cdb wrote: »

If the OP was to replace the B&W entry level home theatre speakers with say a full set of speakers from KEF or Monitor Audio ... So not only would he would get more for less but it would be as good if not better.

Sigh... The B&W's are arguably in a different league to Kef and most certainly Monitor Audio. More for less is not always a good stratagem in HiFi Audio.

What you are arguing is moot anyway because the way Cloney work is that they work with you to customise the system to suit you (just like RS do) but with a different product base. The price on "system 4" is <€3000 so, if it came in at €2000 because that price is about 2 years old it would be similar to the RS price.

At the end of the day, it is up to the OP to decide where to spend their money. I merely offered opinions on how to spend the budget in a different manner to going all out on a "relatively" cheap 5.1 system.

cdb

Did you even read follow the link?? The 1910 is brand new and unopened at that price. It is not an open box product.
Anyway, you said that RS do not sell similar lines to Cloney and then you give an example of an older Denon 1909 in a package for £3000!!!!

Look, there is no disputing that B&W makes some great speakers - the point I was making is that Cloneys are expensive and that he has options.

And yeah I'd hope the Krell sounds better - especially if it is going to cost €1500 - but there wouldn't be much point in spending 75% of the OP's budget on a second hand processor would there?

The Ritz

Mod Comment:

I think that you've both made your points sufficiently well for the purposes of the OP's question, I don't think that any useful purpose will be served by following this line of argument in this thread.

I think that a debate on value for money in terms of new mainstream vs. secondhand more esoteric gear/whatever is a separate issue and frankly one that is impossible to debate objectively - it all comes down to whatever you regard as being good value/suited to your purpose/worth paying for.


Thanks,


Ritz.

C14N

nereid wrote: »

While I agree that RS are cheaper than Cloney you are not comparing like with like, because generally what Cloney offer is much higher up the audio scale than the stuff in RS. Even Sevenoaks would be generally higher end of the brands carried by RS.

I know, I've kind of got a budget where I could go with a cheaper place like RS or get something cheaper from a higher class places like Sevenoaks or Cloney.

nereid wrote: »

What you could do, is go for for a good 2.0 (or 2.1 if you want) system and expand the surround speakers as you go. I have basically done this, with a pair of System Audio XP-30's and a combination of B&W M-1 and CCM-50's for surround duties.

I had considered that, but the money for this is going to be from a summer job so I wouldn't really be able to upgrade for another year and I don't really want that. It would be a good idea otherwise.

cdb wrote: »

I don't want to go off thread here but I have to disagree.

You highlight Cloney's 'System 4' advertised as less than €3,000.

System 4 ( < €3,000.-)
Denon BD60 Blu-Ray Player
Denon AVR1909 AV Receiver
B&W 685 Theatre Package (685 Front with stands, 686 Rear with stands, HTM62 Center and ASW608 Sub



RS do not sell the B&W 685 theatre package but for comparison purposes, the package has an RRP of £1206 according to Whathifi link

Richersounds do sell the newer model Denon 1910 for £379 Post 48

They also recently advertised the Pioneer BD60 at £99 Post 27 (Denon BD60??)

or how about the superior Denon DBP-2010 for £599 post 29

So a superior AV / blu-ray player combination for £478 in addition to the £1206 for the 685's would give us a grand total of £1684 (€1872 today on xe.com)

Or the far superior AV / blu-ray player combination for £978 plus the B&W's would give us £2184. (€2428)

Well Cloney sell the B&W 685 set for €1500 and the Denon 1910 for €450 (I sent an email to check). So the speakers aren't quite the perfect conversion but I'm sure that has to do with the manufacturer as much as the shop. Amp is the same price as Richersounds since they also seem to use a slightly older conversion rate.

I'm sure they don't still run that offer since it is quite old and that's why the price seems a little off nowadays.

cdb wrote: »

If the OP was to replace the B&W entry level home theatre speakers with say a full set of speakers from KEF or Monitor Audio (example)he would have a system that would compete with Cloney's offering for less than his budget of €2000. So not only would he would get more for less but it would be as good if not better.

I haven't actually gotten to give any of the above a go, but I don't think the Bronze Monitor Audio speakers would be at the exact same level as the 685s just from looking at the price and from what a friend told me. I could save some cash and go with them yet, I'm just saying that they don't seem fully equal. I'm not exactly sure which KEF speakers you mean so I can't comment there.

I put up a post on the RS thread and got some prices.

Denon 1910 £380/€450 (as mentioned above)
Denon 2310 £600/€700

Monitor Audio BR2 £750/€885
Monitor Audio RX1 £1500/€1770

So I could even end up going for the RX1 set if I stretch it a little. I did notice that Richersounds don't do an exact conversion rate though. I wonder if I could pay in sterling and save some money like that? If I could then I could squeeze in the RX1 and 1910 amp much more easily in my budget.

Idleater

C14N wrote: »

I put up a post on the RS thread and got some prices.

Monitor Audio BR2 £750/€885
Monitor Audio RX1 £1500/€1770

For how many speakers are those prices? I presume it's 5? If it is, then you'd get the SA xp30's + 3 or 4 M-1's for the price of the RX1 set, and you probably wouldn't need a sub where you probably would notice the lack of bass with the standmounts alone. I find I have no issues with small surround speakers, and I am not running a centre channel.

Another option to keep in mind is to use the same speaker as your Front L+R as your centre channel (if you are choosing standmounts). This can give a much more even sound field from the front channels.

eddiem74

C14N wrote: »

I wonder if I could pay in sterling and save some money like that? If I could then I could squeeze in the RX1 and 1910 amp much more easily in my budget.

I always pay in sterling with RS, or at least when the exchange rate works out better than the euro quote.

C14N

nereid wrote: »

For how many speakers are those prices? I presume it's 5? If it is, then you'd get the SA xp30's + 3 or 4 M-1's for the price of the RX1 set, and you probably wouldn't need a sub where you probably would notice the lack of bass with the standmounts alone. I find I have no issues with small surround speakers, and I am not running a centre channel.

Another option to keep in mind is to use the same speaker as your Front L+R as your centre channel (if you are choosing standmounts). This can give a much more even sound field from the front channels.

Yeah it's for the full 5.1 setup. Unfortunately, although I'd like to get some floorstanding speakers, they simply won't work. The thing holding all my stuff (PS3, Sky+ box etc) will come between the speakers and the couch so if I get a floorstander the bottom two thirds at least will be cut off:( Also, Cloney offered me the M1s for a fair bit less than the RX1 setup or the 685s. It's just that I know they're classed as "style speakers" which makes me believe that there's got to be a little more money going toward design than sound, and funnily enough I think the traditional wooden boxy speakers look better.

I don't really want to ditch the subwoofer though. From everything I've seen and heard it seems a pretty integral part of the system. Especially since a lot of music I listen to is heavy on bass.

eddiem74 wrote: »

I always pay in sterling with RS, or at least when the exchange rate works out better than the euro quote.

Oh that's good. I could definitely go for the RX1 setup then.

Idleater

C14N wrote: »

Also, Cloney offered me the M1s for a fair bit less than the RX1 setup or the 685s. It's just that I know they're classed as "style speakers" which makes me believe that there's got to be a little more money going toward design than sound

You are right in that regard, I wouldn't use them for main duties.

Which sub would you be getting with the rs1's?

SmithySeller

Call me biased but I bought the B&W 685 Theatre with an upgraded sub to the 10". I bought them all in Black. They look superb and sound absolutely incredible, no exageration whatsoever, simply incredible. I did aim for a higher end Marantz or a Denon 2310, but went with the 1910 in the end, because like you I had a budget of 2k and did not want to go over. The 1910 does a fine job. Only when 7.1 becomes a bit more regular will I buy an additional 2 x 686 speakers. Just watched Band of Brothers on Blu-Ray, stunning sound!!

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685-Theatre/

SmithySeller

Sorry, just sieved through the posts there, My honest opinion is that the 685 Theatre is far superior the MA Bronze, I auditioned both in the North. I didn't listen to the MA Silver Im afraid. The B&W for me just seemed a more quality product as well, the look and feel, apart from the sound that is. For what it's worth I bought the 1910 off RS and the B&W off another crowd in Belfast, I can dig up the name if you like. But I basically sent an email to as many suppliers in the North and South and haggled as best I could until I got the best price I could. TBH, if you bought either I think you'll be a very happy man. One warning, and I dont know if this is still the case, it took 3 months to order in the equipment there was such a backlog with B&W equipment. This was the same everywhere, they might have had a pair of 685 speakers, but to get the package there was quite a wait. Best of luck

C14N

nereid wrote: »

You are right in that regard, I wouldn't use them for main duties.

Which sub would you be getting with the rs1's?

Well I suppose it would be the RXW12 sub since that's included in the package I asked about.

SmithySeller wrote: »

Call me biased but I bought the B&W 685 Theatre with an upgraded sub to the 10". I bought them all in Black. They look superb and sound absolutely incredible, no exageration whatsoever, simply incredible. I did aim for a higher end Marantz or a Denon 2310, but went with the 1910 in the end, because like you I had a budget of 2k and did not want to go over. The 1910 does a fine job. Only when 7.1 becomes a bit more regular will I buy an additional 2 x 686 speakers. Just watched Band of Brothers on Blu-Ray, stunning sound!!

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685-Theatre/

I did try out one set of B&W speakers before (I think it was the CM ones though) and I have to say they blew me away. Hopefully when I test out the 685s or Silvers I'll get the same thing again:)

Afaik, 7.1 won't be coming for quite a while yet. Apparently it's on lots of Blurays in the US but they bring it down to 5.1 for the PAL regions for some reason.

SmithySeller wrote: »

Sorry, just sieved through the posts there, My honest opinion is that the 685 Theatre is far superior the MA Bronze, I auditioned both in the North. I didn't listen to the MA Silver Im afraid. The B&W for me just seemed a more quality product as well, the look and feel, apart from the sound that is. For what it's worth I bought the 1910 off RS and the B&W off another crowd in Belfast, I can dig up the name if you like. But I basically sent an email to as many suppliers in the North and South and haggled as best I could until I got the best price I could. TBH, if you bought either I think you'll be a very happy man. One warning, and I dont know if this is still the case, it took 3 months to order in the equipment there was such a backlog with B&W equipment. This was the same everywhere, they might have had a pair of 685 speakers, but to get the package there was quite a wait. Best of luck

Hopefully that doesn't happen. I want to get these in about 2 months and use them a lot in summer. If you still have some of those suppliers then I'd be glad to hear them.

SmithySeller

I'm guessing the Silvers could be a step up again. They have come down a bit from when I was looking. Make sure you have room for the Centre speaker, they are pretty big, especially depth wise. Anyhow, I emailed quite a few people, and eventually the best deal was with LRG Sound and Vision in Belfast. I did a lot of playing off each other, and I remember I had to deal with John, as he was the owner, the rest didn't seem to have the ability to be as flexible. Understanding I suppose. Anyhow, whichever you choose, at this price level you are going to be very happy!

eddiem74

I went from an Onkyo 606 and Kef 3005 speaker package to a Denon 2310 and Monitor Audio RX6 AV Package from RS. While I had thought the Onkyo and 3005's were amazing, I have now moved up a significant notch, so much more clarity and detail.

I am still a relative novice in all this, and tend of buy off reviews, and feedback, rightly or wrongly. Still some more tweaking required as my system runs in, but loving it.

I know you are looking the Amp, and speakers but if you go with the RX1's you will need to consider the cost of stands and/or wall brackets (if they do these?), these often are not cheap if you go for the manufacturers version. You will also need a sub cable, and speaker cable, so you will need to measure the distance from where your amp will be to the location of the the sub and speakers to determine the lengths required.

Exciting stuff!

C14N

SmithySeller wrote: »

I'm guessing the Silvers could be a step up again. They have come down a bit from when I was looking. Make sure you have room for the Centre speaker, they are pretty big, especially depth wise. Anyhow, I emailed quite a few people, and eventually the best deal was with LRG Sound and Vision in Belfast. I did a lot of playing off each other, and I remember I had to deal with John, as he was the owner, the rest didn't seem to have the ability to be as flexible. Understanding I suppose. Anyhow, whichever you choose, at this price level you are going to be very happy!

I'm sure I'll have plenty of room for the centre. My AV stand is about 60cm deep and about 2.5m wide.

eddiem74 wrote: »

I went from an Onkyo 606 and Kef 3005 speaker package to a Denon 2310 and Monitor Audio RX6 AV Package from RS. While I had thought the Onkyo and 3005's were amazing, I have now moved up a significant notch, so much more clarity and detail.

I am still a relative novice in all this, and tend of buy off reviews, and feedback, rightly or wrongly. Still some more tweaking required as my system runs in, but loving it.

I know you are looking the Amp, and speakers but if you go with the RX1's you will need to consider the cost of stands and/or wall brackets (if they do these?), these often are not cheap if you go for the manufacturers version. You will also need a sub cable, and speaker cable, so you will need to measure the distance from where your amp will be to the location of the the sub and speakers to determine the lengths required.

Exciting stuff!

Yeah I'm certainly narrowing down with reviews, like yourself.

I hadn't thought of the cost of stands and cables too much. How much do the stands usually cost?

eddiem74

C14N wrote: »

I hadn't thought of the cost of stands and cables too much. How much do the stands usually cost?

Looking at the RX1 AV Pack, it always seems to show the RX1's on stands, so perhaps they come with 2 stands? Something you could check. If not stands could easily cost €100+ as you need to consider the weight they need to hold, ensure they fit/suit the speaker, help hide cables for neatness, and also have good weight so they won't be knocked over easily.

The main point is that you don't get caught up with just the price of the Amp and Speakers, but also consider the likely extras such as stands and cables (sub, HDMI, speaker, etc..), as a stretched budget can easily become a blown budget as my wife knows only to well. Although some of this might be thrown in by the dealer if you are spending serious cash.

Tea 1000

SmithySeller wrote: »

Call me biased but I bought the B&W 685 Theatre with an upgraded sub to the 10". I bought them all in Black. They look superb and sound absolutely incredible, no exageration whatsoever, simply incredible. I did aim for a higher end Marantz or a Denon 2310, but went with the 1910 in the end, because like you I had a budget of 2k and did not want to go over. The 1910 does a fine job. Only when 7.1 becomes a bit more regular will I buy an additional 2 x 686 speakers. Just watched Band of Brothers on Blu-Ray, stunning sound!!

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685-Theatre/

Sorry for the hi-jack, but just on that highlighted part there... I have a Denon 1910, but it's beginning to become apparent that in order to go for a 7.1 surround set up, you have to sacrifice bi-amping the front speakers. Is this the case do you know? There are enough sockets to cover that option, so I'm not sure if that's the case or not.