I wanna be an Technologist

celticgooner

Ok guys im looking for your input here.Ive got a few months before i start my 3 yr course so i want to be a bit clued up beforehand I dont want to end up just as a Cad monkey .Ive got 20+ yrs exp on site,Ive certs in Carpentry/joinery,Autocad 2D and 3D,ECDL and a small fetac in Health and safety.What books/articles should I be reading now? What laws or regs should I start learning?What else should i be doing? My wife says i spend to much time playing games on the computer (Student version of Revit arch).
Cheers

sinnerboy

Download DEAP and start playing with it

http://www.sustainableenergyireland.com/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Technical/DEAP/?print=1

same with THERM ( software to calculate thermal bridges )

http://windows.lbl.gov/software/therm/therm.html

All b regs can be found here ( prioritize Parts L , M and K )

http://www.environ.ie/en/TGD/

Pay particular attention to

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,18749,en.pdf

Subscribe to Construct Ireland magazine ( and check out the forum there too )

http://constructireland.ie/Back-Issues/

Ditto with this magazine and forum

http://www.greenbuildingpress.co.uk/products.php?category_id=7

Attend this

http://www.sustainableenergyireland.com/News_Events/Energy_Show_2009/

Buy the Homebond Manual

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

Buy the Homebond Manual

+1. Essential/

You would also need to familiarise yourself with all aspects of the Planning Legislation and also have a good read through your local Planning Authority's Development Plan.

This thread is also worth a read.

celticgooner

Cheers Guys I do have a copy of the Homebond manual gathering dust somewhere and thanks for the links they should keep me busy for the next week or so lol

YouWantWhat

celticgooner wrote: »

Ok guys im looking for your input here.Ive got a few months before i start my 3 yr course so i want to be a bit clued up beforehand I dont want to end up just as a Cad monkey .Ive got 20+ yrs exp on site,Ive certs in Carpentry/joinery,Autocad 2D and 3D,ECDL and a small fetac in Health and safety.What books/articles should I be reading now? What laws or regs should I start learning?What else should i be doing? My wife says i spend to much time playing games on the computer (Student version of Revit arch).
Cheers

Hi Celticgooner
I was just reading your comments on a different thread about you starting your three year course in architectural technology.
I admire your determination, but would advise you to think carefully about what you are about to embark on. When you finish your course, what qualification will you have? I'm guessing it will be a diploma or equivalent, which isn't really a recognizable qualification. You'd probably want to have at least a degree, to be reconised by banks and solicitors or even CIAT. If you don't have a recognizable qualification, you'll find it very difficult and expensive to get PI insurance, and you cannot operate on your own without it. You'll probably end up working under somebody else's supervision. Also think of your age, I'd be guessing you are in your 40's, you'll probably end up studying for at least 4 years (you won't be a technologist after 3 years) and need at least five years work experience to be competent - you'll then be in your 50's before things start happening for you -just think of the practicalities of this and the fact that you will be competing with people in their 20's. Have a chat to an architect or technician if you know any. Have you considered other possibilities, I would have thought someone with your trade background would be an ideal canditate for project management!
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck and hopefully the economy will have picked up by the time you qualify.

muffler

There are so many inaccuracies and assumptions in the above post that it would take too long to respond to them.

Mellor

muffler wrote: »

There are so many inaccuracies and assumptions in the above post that it would take too long to respond to them.

Somebody should.

YouWantWhat wrote: »

I admire your determination, but would advise you to think carefully about what you are about to embark on. When you finish your course, what qualification will you have? I'm guessing it will be a diploma or equivalent,

You're "guessing" it's a diploma???? One, why the hell are you guessing at random bits of info, two, it's likely a degree. AFAIK, all (or at least the top) courses are degree status now, and have been for some years.

which isn't really a recognizable qualification.You'd probably want to have at least a degree, to be reconised by banks and solicitors or even CIAT. If you don't have a recognizable qualification, you'll find it very difficult and expensive to get PI insurance, and you cannot operate on your own without it.

Even when it was a diploma it was a recognised qualification, many of the sole practitioners operating today are from pre-degree days, these are recognised by banks, solicitors and also CIAT (they still do btw).
As I said not applicable, anymore.

You'll probably end up working under somebody else's supervision. Also think of your age, I'd be guessing you are in your 40's, you'll probably end up studying for at least 4 years (you won't be a technologist after 3 years) and need at least five years work experience to be competent

Working under somebody else applies to every graduate.
You won't be a technologist after 4 years either. Add on courses are now available. I'm not sure what you meant by 5 years, guessing it was just a rough timescale for being good enough to go on there own.

celticgooner

YouWantWhat wrote: »

Hi Celticgooner
I was just reading your comments on a different thread about you starting your three year course in architectural technology.
I admire your determination, but would advise you to think carefully about what you are about to embark on. When you finish your course, what qualification will you have? I'm guessing it will be a diploma or equivalent, which isn't really a recognizable qualification. You'd probably want to have at least a degree, to be reconised by banks and solicitors or even CIAT. If you don't have a recognizable qualification, you'll find it very difficult and expensive to get PI insurance, and you cannot operate on your own without it. You'll probably end up working under somebody else's supervision. Also think of your age, I'd be guessing you are in your 40's, you'll probably end up studying for at least 4 years (you won't be a technologist after 3 years) and need at least five years work experience to be competent - you'll then be in your 50's before things start happening for you -just think of the practicalities of this and the fact that you will be competing with people in their 20's. Have a chat to an architect or technician if you know any. Have you considered other possibilities, I would have thought someone with your trade background would be an ideal canditate for project management!
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck and hopefully the economy will have picked up by the time you qualify.

Hi YouWantWhat the course is here http://www.dit.ie/study/undergraduate/browse/title,27474,en.html

I have no probs competing with 20 yr olds I might end up being 50+ by the time ive enough exp but ive a mental age of about 25 so i should be ok lol. I do have alot of site years in me so im not completely without knowledge which i think gives me an edge.
You make a good point about the project management I did consider it, DIT offer a full time and a part time course (which I could do at a later date if i wished) but its the designing and the structural side of buildings im really interested in.
The money i guess would be a lot better in project management but my kids have nearly all left school my wife has a good job and pays the morgage (Its her turn) and I believe at this point this is the direction I wish to go in .
Ask me again in 10 yrs lol

YouWantWhat

celticgooner wrote: »

Hi YouWantWhat the course is here http://www.dit.ie/study/undergraduate/browse/title,27474,en.html

I have no probs competing with 20 yr olds I might end up being 50+ by the time ive enough exp but ive a mental age of about 25 so i should be ok lol. I do have alot of site years in me so im not completely without knowledge which i think gives me an edge.
You make a good point about the project management I did consider it, DIT offer a full time and a part time course (which I could do at a later date if i wished) but its the designing and the structural side of buildings im really interested in.
The money i guess would be a lot better in project management but my kids have nearly all left school my wife has a good job and pays the morgage (Its her turn) and I believe at this point this is the direction I wish to go in .
Ask me again in 10 yrs lol

Hi Celticgooner,

if its what you want to do and you've researched it and know whats involved, then go for it. It's alot of hard work though, and many nights burning the midnight oil. If you could get in with a local architect, and work with him in your holiday times, it would be a geat help to you and no doubt speed up your progress.

Best of luck.

beyondpassive

Hi Celtic Gooner,

You'd be well advised to do your homework on this one. While the course is excellent in what it does, unfortunatly it is becoming less relevent. Theres a notion doing the rounds that the economy will pick up and there will be meaningful roles for graduate technicians and technologists. I don't see it. We are moving from boom bust cycles within over incremental growth to a de-growth scenario. (revisiting limits to growth). The Nordic countries experience this in the 90's and re-engineered their economies to quality of life targets rather than prodictivity indexes. Thats another story. I'll just add that my understanding of technologist is more than the local lad who draws up pattern book plans of bungalows and symmetrical mock Victorian McMansion one-off's for d'plannin.

As I see it, the skills that Technicians posses coming of University are not what the market wants now or in the future. I'll qualify that by saying that the discipline of Architectural technology has the most intelligent practical skilled people in the construction industry and can work at any level in the business, but I 'll leave my own sentiment aside. I'm talking about graduates here specifically. The biggest issue is that 'technical' architectural staff need a very comprehensive and analytical understanding of energy and sustainability and the cost implications of interventions. This involves understanding tools such as BREEAM, LEED and SBEM, Passivhaus and DEAP, Therm and HEAT 3. This is not the mechanical engineers role and it so so fundamental to good design that it must be done in house.

The second issue is simply supply and demand. Why employ a degree level member of staff with specific skills when you can get post grad with a broader range of skills for the same cost. How many architect grads are being disgorged out into the market these years, with equivalent technical and graphic abilities to technology students. Many have a good understanding of sustainability, occupant comfort, material science and energy efficiency.

So , nothings going to get built till 2015 at least, when you graduate then make sure you have very good technical skills in sustainability metrics, you're not going to get that in the DIT technology courses. I can recommend honours degree's because they allow you to do a masters after, but after 4 years you'll want to work. Hopfully the fourth year will allow you to specialise in an area of sustainability and technology.
Fair dues man for going back to education, I did similar the last 4 years and it was the toughest but best decision I ever made. Best of Luck.

Mellor

beyondpassive, I'd disagree with most of what you said.
Obviously, a degree geared specifically towards sustainability will give you an advantage in that field, but would you would fall short.
I am assuming that you haven't actually done the DIT degree, if so how do you know what they are like in terms of environmental design.

As for the employability of graduates, the standard varies. A number of ATs in the field have been bogged down in mundane roles for years, ignoring the advances in the fields of sustainability, in my opinion the better graduates would be far more learned than these people.
Obviously, it doesn't apply to everyone.

There are certain jobs that are simple, but required. A graduate is suited to these, unless of course a guy with 10+ years is willing to do it for a graduates salary. But I doubt it

beyondpassive

Whats it like in Oz Mellor. Hope the work is good.

As a former Arch Tech, I often look at posted up work and final year exhibitions in DIT, I'm well aware of the high standard of work being produced. I've seen some incredible freehand exploded perspectives of a mullion holding down plates and archicad type rendered section details, but this is not what the market wants. Things have changed irrevocably. The new 4th year needs to produce graduates who have the skills that the market wants. There is no market in ireland and the discipline of AT is obsolete. I dont know of any Technicians who are working at the moment and if the market comes back in any shape or form, technicians will be the last to be employed. In the UK, graduates are being taken on to undertake BREEAM assessments, unfortunately many of these are engineers. Its a good niche for technologists, a fourth year guided towards sustainability metrics might at least offer some hope of a career beyond drafting.

sinnerboy

The more things change the more they stay the same .

AT training is today what it was when I started it in 1982 . An excellent grounding for a varied and interesting career - if you are motivated to achieve this later on . Never sell yourself short.

If you later get stuck doing nothing but door schedules and editing other peoples mark-ups - change that as soon as you can. As a matter of fact I have seen both AT's and Arch's get pigeon holed like this . It depends on the force of one's own personality .

I particularity recall one poor sod of an Architect in a UK practice who for years only produced sanitary schedules for the hospital design consultancy I worked for then . Every day he died a little more - his own fault . Another Architect I knew was stuck on the windows schedule ( for a £35 million hospital ) for 3 months . Guess what he did ? Moved on sharpish at the earliest opportunity .

To celticgooner I say again - don't listen to reasons not to train . Your experience will stand to you both during and after college . Have fun doing it too - very important that . The futures bright .

Mellor

beyondpassive wrote: »

Whats it like in Oz Mellor. Hope the work is good.

It's very good, at least compared to Ireland. I left a job last month, and within a week I had 3 guys ring me and offer me a job.

As a former Arch Tech, I often look at posted up work and final year exhibitions in DIT, I'm well aware of the high standard of work being produced. I've seen some incredible freehand exploded perspectives of a mullion holding down plates and archicad type rendered section details, but this is not what the market wants.

Obviously it's not what the market wants. Just like most other courses. That isn't the point of a final project, its to assess ability.
It would be fairly mundane if the final project was to produce a BER report, a window schecule, bind the specifcation and fold the A1s, not to mention a lot harder to spot the best ones.

Things have changed irrevocably. The new 4th year needs to produce graduates who have the skills that the market wants. There is no market in ireland and the discipline of AT is obsolete. I dont know of any Technicians who are working at the moment and if the market comes back in any shape or form, technicians will be the last to be employed.

I'm working. Strictly speaking as an architect as there is no dedicated AT role here.

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

I'm working. Strictly speaking as an architect as there is no dedicated AT role here.

Just out of curiosity B. is the "architect" title not protected?

Mellor

muffler wrote: »

Just out of curiosity B. is the "architect" title not protected?

It is. But I'm an employee ( or strictly, I have my own business and I am hired in), not the person advertising or offering services. So it doesn't apply to me. I never formally call myself anything, nor am I registered. It's just like a part 2 Arch Who isn't reg'd working in Ireland for a company, obv as an architect, even though they can't formally use the title.

roz135

Hi Celtic Gooner,

i have just finished my first year in architectural technology in DIT Bolton street. it is a course which involves a lot of work and alot of dedication, but if u would like to know more about the course or what kind of prep u will need just replay back to this message and ill be more than happy to assist.

celticgooner

Hi roz135
I went with Colaiste Dhulaigh in raheny in the end. 1)Because they will put me straight into 2nd yr to start with as i have c+g in autocad already. 2)Its alot nearer to me and i get there in 15-20 mins on my new pushbike(and loose the gut) Maybe we can compare notes and teachers next yr. I want to get big into conservation/restoration I think so maybe I will have to go to DIT in a few years to continue with that.
At the moment while im waiting to start Im doing an evening course in photoshop with fas. every little bit helps I suppose
Cheers

roz135

ah thats good to here hope everthing works out of ya nd enjoy the course if possible lol coz it is very hard :-)

celticgooner

roz135 wrote: »

ah thats good to here hope everthing works out of ya nd enjoy the course if possible lol coz it is very hard :-)

Roz ive heard its a hard course from a number of people including the woman that interviewed me for it, but how hard can it be?Surely if youre in to it and youre enjoying it then you should sail through it right I am a bit of a plank though
Cheers

Bobon

Celtic Gooner, went to colaiste dhulaigh and then onto Wolverhampton where I got my degree. I enjoyed colaiste dhulaigh and it definitely gave me a good grounding when going on to wolves. For example, you do a 10,000 word+ dissertation in colaiste dhulaigh. Having done that you're well prepared for the dissertation in wolves, although you obviously can't use the same dissertation Do you think you'll go to wolves at all?

Edit to say: you did the right thing, getting the c+g in cad before the course. I had this also and it really helped as you could focus on other modules whereas other members of the class were still struggling with cad. The ****ers never let me skip first year though.

Bobon

Mellor, are you working as an arch tech over in Oz? Working/holiday visa? Have things picked up over there at all?

celticgooner

Bobon wrote: »

Do you think you'll go to wolves at all?

Hi Bobon
Not sure the wife would let me lol only time will tell. To be honest Id prefer to stay in Dublin
What subject was your dissertation on and did you have a choice?
Cheers

Mellor

Bobon wrote: »

Mellor, are you working as an arch tech over in Oz? Working/holiday visa? Have things picked up over there at all?

As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm working as an architect, basically because Arch Tech doesn't fully exist and having the technical background gave me a step up.
Strictly speaking the role of sole practising architect here is a combo or both professions.

I don't know if it ever really slowed down here, not like in ireland anyway and anyone I know is pretty solid with work, in all fields

Bobon

Celtic gooner,

Thats fair enough. Sure you'll get the qualification all the same whether you stay or go. Yes you had the option of covering any related subject for the dissertation. I did mine on the effects that the EU energy performance for buildings directive would have on the construction industry in Ireland. So basically all about building energy ratings. I interviewed SEI, architects etc. It hadn't been implemented at the time.

Actually I got away with doing the same topic dissertation in Wolves by discussing the effects on the UK industry i.e interviewing the organisational body in Uk who are implementing it, UK architects etc, so I was lucky :P.

Membership@CIAT

For all those students studying on a construction related course leading to a career in the indusrty, you should sign up as a student member for FREE. The membership will last for the duration of your course and once completed you can upgrade to Associate (ACIAT) membership for FREE. You can do this online at:
http://www.ciat.org.uk/en/Join_CIAT/Grades/Student.cfm

Any queries just ask.

Bobon

I was a student member about 3-4 years ago. Would I still be able to upgrade for free?

Membership@CIAT

No - (Sorry) you must keep your student membership active and upgrade the same year as you graduate to get the special offer.

celticgooner

Membership@CIAT wrote: »

For all those students studying on a construction related course leading to a career in the indusrty, you should sign up as a student member for FREE. The membership will last for the duration of your course and once completed you can upgrade to Associate (ACIAT) membership for FREE. You can do this online at:
http://www.ciat.org.uk/en/Join_CIAT/Grades/Student.cfm

Any queries just ask.

Thanks I will sign up but I suppose i will have to wait until the course starts to get all the details to fill out the form
Cheers

woody1

just to pick up on what a few people have said,
1. i am a technician graduated 12 years ago and have never been out of work yet all in ireland too, so there is work out there a lot less but its there i work in a company of 2 technicians, doing mostly subcontract work from architects and engineers and " architects " in our area, we both have sub specialised into other relevant areas this broadens our base to get work in

2. what you do after you get your basic education.. if you sit on it and do nothing other than sit in front of pc all day drawing up what your told then yes you will have trouble youl need to specialise go on and get a postgrad in prooject management , fire , energy, passive whatever this is where you make yourself valuable , employable and if you want to work for yourself these are skills that you will need...

3. if architectural technicians technologists whatever are now defunct i have one question who is or who is going to do the work basic drawing, detailing, running projects, making tea.. and all the other stuff that technicians have done and will do for years... architects ! dont think so, i still get phone calls every day asking me the most basic technical stuff and i mean basic, i do sub contract work for a few in my part of the country and most of them are great designers and comunicators but they dont like and in some cases arent able for the technical stuff,


anyway if your interested in the design / technical end of things go for technology and then go for passive or energy efficiency or whatever keep up to date in the meantime and by the time your qualified i think youl be okay

celticgooner

Im glad you and others are still finding work in the reccession Woody its good to hear.As Im not one to sit still Im sure I wont end up just drawing all day. Id probably hang myself if i was stuck in an office permanently With all the courses I plan to do I should be ready to retire once im finished LOL
Cheers