TIME TO SACK THE POPE

fontanalis

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/richard_dawkins/2010/03/ratzinger_is_the_perfect_pope.html

Joey the lips

Is the op religious.... Doubt it. Catholic doubt it... really care doubt it :rolleyes:


I get it you all hate the pope.... Well done.

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

Is the op religious.... Doubt it. Catholic doubt it... really care doubt it :rolleyes:


I get it you all hate the pope.... Well done.

I love him and the wonderful moral choices him and his fellow men in dresses have made.

Joey the lips

fontanalis wrote: »

I love him and the wonderful moral choices him and his fellow men in dresses have made.

Well done I take it your a practising and devot catholic.

dr.bollocko

Don't sack him

Joey the lips wrote: »

Well done I take it your a practising and devot catholic.

I don't get what point you're trying to make tbh Joey.

rubadub

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Surely there is a way to sack the pope?

Get with the times, all the cool priests call it teabagging now.

Joey the lips

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I don't get what point you're trying to make tbh Joey.

The point is clear and has been expressed to death in the christanity forum... We as catholics must forgive. Granted its hard. but we must. But I imagine that many that subscribe to these thread could not give a dam about weather or not the pope is in office. All they hear is abuse abuse abuse. While i understand this is wrong. I think it should be discussed and investigated. The op has no reason or proof for saying the pope should be "sacked"

Due process should be allowed and if all the litrature was read in full yes we would see the catholic leadership is wrong but sack the pope....

How daft are we going to go.... Lets burn all christians or maybe just catholics on the fire...

I doubt you will agree.... But lets call a spade a sade... We are being daft afterall...

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

Well done I take it your a practising and devot catholic.

I'm a devout nothing, I just don't go around preaching piety based on stories from ancient goat herders and try to protect child rapists.
What do you not get?
This organisation saw fit to deominse homosexuals, single mothers, couples living together out of wedlock etc but over the years they sheltered the lowest form of criminal life and they are now going to be held RESPONSIBLE. Sad old cnuts who threw their lives away (no marriage, no children) and made some of the worse moral choices anyone could make; would you sit in a room with two young victims of a monster and watch them sign an oath of silence and be comfortable with it?
It's nothing to do with anti-catholic (after the famine, mass emigration and mass unemployment do Irish people not get god doesn't really like us more than anyone else) it's empathy, try it.

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

The point is clear and has been expressed to death in the christanity forum... We as catholics must forgive. Granted its hard. but we must. But I imagine that many that subscribe to these thread could not give a dam about weather or not the pope is in office. All they hear is abuse abuse abuse. While i understand this is wrong. I think it should be discussed and investigated. The op has no reason or proof for saying the pope should be "sacked"

Due process should be allowed and if all the litrature was read in full yes we would see the catholic leadership is wrong but sack the pope....

How daft are we going to go.... Lets burn all christians or maybe just catholics on the fire...

I doubt you will agree.... But lets call a spade a sade... We are being daft afterall...

[sarcasm] Yes I want to burn all christians, even the ones who disagree with you over transubstantiation! [sarcasm]

Nevyn

m@cc@ wrote: »

He's appointed by God and can only be sacked by God. He'd need to be given 3 written warnings first as well.

No he was elected by men, he was elected by the cardinals of the church and who knows who many of them indulged in raping kids or covered up for men who did.

Personally the pope should get the same ending as the first one did and then the rest of the members of the clergy who are abusers or did not report abusers to the law should follow.

Glenster

I think sacking the Pope doesn't go far enough!

I think the people at the top should pay for this, the big three, Buddha, Moses and Ali, their heads should roll....


....oh wait THEN WE WOULDNT HAVE ETERNAL SALVATION WOULD WE???????

We cant throw the baby Jesus out with the bathwater, sure there are problems but we, here, together, going forward can solve them, nailing some Sith Lord to a tree isn't going to make much difference.

Joey the lips

fontanalis wrote: »

I'm a devout nothing, I just don't go around preaching piety based on stories from ancient goat herders and try to protect child rapists.
What do you not get?
This organisation saw fit to deominse homosexuals, single mothers, couples living together out of wedlock etc but over the years they sheltered the lowest form of criminal life and they are now going to be held RESPONSIBLE. Sad old cnuts who threw their lives away (no marriage, no children) and made some of the worse moral choices anyone could make; would you sit in a room with two young victims of a monster and watch them sign an oath of silence and be comfortable with it?
It's nothing to do with anti-catholic (after the famine, mass emigration and mass unemployment do Irish people not get god doesn't really like us more than anyone else) it's empathy, try it.

So you feel that it should practise what it preaches so to speak... So what do you think of your parents who tell you not to smoke and they smoke away. You can see hypocritical if you want to... I dont necessarilary think the church is right in all its done but we all live by the bible and they are preachers of the bible. You can choose not to listen or you can choose the parables that explain the situation perfectly.

As for single mothers... and that rant. it also discourages the use of condoms. Whats your point. Its critical because you dont follow the rules?

fontanalis wrote: »

Yes I want to burn all christians, even the ones who disagree with you over transubstantiation!

Well done.





It would actually be nice if those of the faith actually gave there opinion... As for example I dont believe i am qualified to say what the jewish,muslim or indeed athiest traditions do.


My point..... How can you expect an intelligent debate when the op has not structured an actual question but more a rant.

dr.bollocko

Don't sack him

Joey the lips wrote: »

The point is clear and has been expressed to death in the christanity forum... We as catholics must forgive. Granted its hard. but we must. But I imagine that many that subscribe to these thread could not give a dam about weather or not the pope is in office. All they hear is abuse abuse abuse. While i understand this is wrong. I think it should be discussed and investigated. The op has no reason or proof for saying the pope should be "sacked"

Due process should be allowed and if all the litrature was read in full yes we would see the catholic leadership is wrong but sack the pope....

How daft are we going to go.... Lets burn all christians or maybe just catholics on the fire...

I doubt you will agree.... But lets call a spade a sade... We are being daft afterall...

I think catholicism in Ireland will never recover from the abuses that have been uncovered. I hope it doesn't recover anyway for the sake of progress.
However the pope has been implicated in a cover up that took place when he was a cardinal. He was aware of abuse and yet did nothing which makes his position very difficult. Similarly Cardinal Brady. How has he not yet been stood down? Surely if these people were complicit in the covering up of the abuse of children they should be tried for it? And imprisoned?

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

So you feel that it should practise what it preaches so to speak... So what do you think of your parents who tell you not to smoke and they smoke away. You can see hypocritical if you want to... I dont necessarilary think the church is right in all its done but we all live by the bible and they are preachers of the bible. You can choose not to listen or you can choose the parables that explain the situation perfectly.

As for single mothers... and that rant. it also discourages the use of condoms. Whats your point. Its critical because you dont follow the rules?



Well done.





It would actually be nice if those of the faith actually gave there opinion... As for example I dont believe i am qualified to say what the jewish,muslim or indeed athiest traditions do.


My point..... How can you expect an intelligent debate when the op has not structured an actual question but more a rant.

I guarantee you wouldn't live in a country where you live exactly by the bible.

Joey the lips

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Surely if these people were complicit in the covering up of the abuse of children they should be tried for it? And imprisoned?

If this can be proven yes.. I agree.

However if it cannot and no charges are made well then why sack people in the position to actually make the changes nesessary.

The catholic church is going through its wost time and instead of protecting the faith people are leaving it. You have to wonder if they ever had faith. This is fine if they dont. But how can someone who has no faith maintain they know whats good for it....?

Futhermore... The first change in all this should be a change of consitution so the catholic faith operates seperate from the state constitution... Is this being done... No... Why not.. Because those in power are not hearing it from catholics of faith....

fontanalis

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I think catholicism in Ireland will never recover from the abuses that have been uncovered. I hope it doesn't recover anyway for the sake of progress.
However the pope has been implicated in a cover up that took place when he was a cardinal. He was aware of abuse and yet did nothing which makes his position very difficult. Similarly Cardinal Brady. How has he not yet been stood down? Surely if these people were complicit in the covering up of the abuse of children they should be tried for it? And imprisoned?

They are obviously special, still can't figure out why though.

Joey the lips

fontanalis wrote: »

I guarantee you wouldn't live in a country where you live exactly by the bible.

The goal is to live exactly by it... But in reality we never achieve that... Its the point that we are all sinners...

fontanalis wrote: »

They are obviously special, still can't figure out why though.

again thank you for proving the point.... Just in case you missed it... the one I made where I said you dont actually care.

Joey the lips

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055855692&goto=newpost


perhaps this thread will help... The rational i believe that merging threads is that no answer can be achieved.... Why.... possibly because no question has been asked...

dr.bollocko

Don't sack him

Just because people don't practice a religion doesn't mean they don't care about the negative impact that religion may have on the community. So I'm an atheist, but it doesn't prevent me from pointing out abuses of the church.

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

The goal is to live exactly by it... But in reality we never achieve that... Its the point that we are all sinners...



again thank you for proving the point.... Just in case you missed it... the one I made where I said you dont actually care.

So because I/you won't live by the lovely Leviticus I/you am/are a sinner? And we are all sinners because a talking snake (a serpent not the divil) told two blind naked peopel to eat some fruit?
Anyway, regarding the initial arguement I think it's important to differentiate between catholocism and the vatican (at this stage it looks like a political party or a corporation, just out to save it's neck).

goat2

Don't sack him

TIME TO SACK THE POPE


but since he is the ultimate head of the rcc, who is going to sack him, he has no one to answer to, so he does as he pleases,
not even God can help us here

Joey the lips

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Just because people don't practice a religion doesn't mean they don't care about the negative impact that religion may have on the community. So I'm an atheist, but it doesn't prevent me from pointing out abuses of the church.

Thats your mistake... Its not the negative impact of a religion. Its a negative impact of a few people within the religion.Additionally if your not practasing do you really speak for the faith or for your beliefs... after all we are thought there is only one god. You forget that.

Example can be demonstrated by the fact I doubt all muslims agreed with the bombing of the world trade centre however it was a group of fanatical muslims.... Is this an example of the negative impact of the religion or even an example of the abuses of the religion.

fontanalis wrote: »

So because I/you won't live by the lovely Leviticus I/you am/are a sinner? And we are all sinners because a talking snake (a serpent not the divil) told two blind naked peopel to eat some fruit?
Anyway, regarding the initial arguement I think it's important to differentiate between catholocism and the vatican (at this stage it looks like a political party or a corporation, just out to save it's neck).

If you are not a practicioner of faith you will not understand that the this testament consists of "parables" For example... Ever christian does not honestly believe that the first 2 people on the earth were adam and eve... or for that matter, blocker and charline.

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thats your mistake... Its not the negative impact of a religion. Its a negative impact of a few people within the religion.Additionally if your not practasing do you really speak for the faith or for your beliefs... after all we are thought there is only one god. You forget that.

Example can be demonstrated by the fact I doubt all muslims agreed with the bombing of the world trade centre however it was a group of fanatical muslims.... Is this an example of the negative impact of the religion or even an example of the abuses of the religion.





If you are not a practicioner of faith you will not understand that the this testament consists of "parables" For example... Ever christian does not honestly believe that the first 2 people on the earth were adam and eve... or for that matter, blocker and charline.

So if the Adam and Eve story isn't true where does original sin come from? I don't care if this is a parable it's one of the most disgusting concepts created, the fact that a child the minute it is born has sin attached to it is ridiculous!

dr.bollocko

Don't sack him

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thats your mistake... Its not the negative impact of a religion. Its a negative impact of a few people within the religion.Additionally if your not practasing do you really speak for the faith or for your beliefs... after all we are thought there is only one god. You forget that.

Example can be demonstrated by the fact I doubt all muslims agreed with the bombing of the world trade centre however it was a group of fanatical muslims.... Is this an example of the negative impact of the religion or even an example of the abuses of the religion.

But you can look at both. The RCC by its own doctrines are a detriment to progress. With the pope as it's mouthpiece it is doing harm lots of harm. That's the direction the RCC is going in. Things like these cases of child abuse are the actions of a few and not of the entire church but they were protected by the RCC structure. Protected and allowed to do it again and again.

Mal-Adjusted

Thaedydal wrote: »

No he was elected by men, he was elected by the cardinals of the church and who knows who many of them indulged in raping kids or covered up for men who did.

are you serious? are we just going to assume that every member of the clergy is some kind of child-molesting monster? how the hell do we know that you didn't indulge in raping kids ffs. cop on or gtfo :rolleyes:

Joey the lips

fontanalis wrote: »

So if the Adam and Eve story isn't true where does original sin come from? I don't care if this is a parable it's one of the most disgusting concepts created, the fact that a child the minute it is born has sin attached to it is ridiculous!

and thats why your a catholic.... oh i see. What are you actually saying. That religion is wrong... Big deal... get over it.. I am to bored with this conversation to justify it.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

But you can look at both. The RCC by its own doctrines are a detriment to progress. With the pope as it's mouthpiece it is doing harm lots of harm. That's the direction the RCC is going in. Things like these cases of child abuse are the actions of a few and not of the entire church but they were protected by the RCC structure. Protected and allowed to do it again and again.

Yes I agree that protection is not right but I also think that this is something that should change.

additionally I cannot see why priests cannot marry as if this was the case I would be one.

I also think mass needs to be overhauld and more focus like that which takes place in childrens masses should be brought in.


My point is if the church became a little more "Human" then we would see less of this cover up as those in power would protect its memebers like its own.

But having said that... I dont understand the various training and education received to aid the current church structure.

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

and thats why your a catholic.... oh i see. What are you actually saying. That religion is wrong... Big deal... get over it.. I am to bored with this conversation to justify it.



Yes I agree that protection is not right but I also think that this is something that should change.

additionally I cannot see why priests cannot marry as if this was the case I would be one.

I also think mass needs to be overhauld and more focus like that which takes place in childrens masses should be brought in.


My point is if the church became a little more "Human" then we would see less of this cover up as those in power would protect its memebers like its own.

But having said that... I dont understand the various training and education received to aid the current church structure.

You can't explain the concept, so take your repressed doubt out on someone else.

Joey the lips

fontanalis wrote: »

You can't explain the concept, so take your repressed doubt out on someone else.

what concept...? that you dont understand parables? or the fact that we are all sinners.... Do you actually want a bible lesson... I dont think so... You are just being padantic... You could not care and its easier to argue.

Dont you agree.

fontanalis

Joey the lips wrote: »

what concept...? that you dont understand parables? or the fact that we are all sinners.... Do you actually want a bible lesson... I dont think so... You are just being padantic... You could not care and its easier to argue.

Dont you agree.

No I don't agree. If someone in Ireland ran a chain of creches nationwide and one of his employees molested children and he moved that eomployee around so it happened again I guarantee he would be in jail. Anyone and everyone involved in this mess needs to pay.
If the church dealt with this like human beings at the start we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The days of saying you're religous and expecting exemption form criticism are gone. You don't just say we are all sinners because of a parable and expect me to nod my head and say I'm a sinner. Explain how we are all sinners.

gent9662

Joey the lips wrote: »

what concept...? that you dont understand parables? or the fact that we are all sinners.... Do you actually want a bible lesson... I dont think so... You are just being padantic... You could not care and its easier to argue.

Dont you agree.

Slightly off the subject I know but a question to you. Would you trust your children with a priest you didn't know in confession?

Trust is a huge thing. The church is untrustworthy in my view and I wouldn't trust them as far as I would throw them. The RCC is dying a slow death. They have been found out finally.