Higher Maths

MaighEoAbu

I'm in fifth year and love maths and get A1s.

However, when I was looking through the exam questions on the areas we've done, e.g., algebra or differentiation (which I love and can do almost any problem), I found the question difficult. I know that there's a second book to do in sixth year, so does that go into more detail then the first book, a bit like the Junior Cert Maths books?

Thanks!

HxGH

I have the very same problem?

I pressumed it was a revision book...

I HOPE it's a revision book!

DGRulz

Sorry lads it's not a revision book. There's another 6-8 chapters and a few more proofs in it. I found a lot of the stuff in the second book to be much easier than book one, but then again this all dependeds on whos book your using.

MaighEoAbu

No, I mean is the book 1 the sections in less detail than book 2. For example, in book 1 they have a section on algebra, in book 2 would they have an advance version of that?

DancingQueen:)

I maths I don't really use the book that much but I think the sixth year book just has questions on different topics and all of the options. It's like that in Texts and Tests anyway.

Making It Bad

No, you don't do any algebra or differentiation in the second book (talking Text & Tests). You do another part of calculus called integration which is basically anti-differentiation, although the routine is different it might help you a little with differentiation. There's a little bit of algebra in everything too, as I'm sure you know. The questions in the papers, mainly the part C's are a lot tougher than in the book but you get better with practise. You still have another year and a bit to improve your understanding of things for the parts C's so I wouldn't get too bothered.

zam

Yeah sure it'll be grand. You basically summed up (ha, pun not intended!) the way everyone feels about LC maths - you can do any sum until it comes to the ever-dreaded exam papers.

felic

No need for panick just yet. The questions on those topics on the paper can seem challenging from where you look at them now, But what happens is that algebra is almost a topic that appears right across every topic in maths. So those questions wont really fully come to you until you have the entire course covered.

MavisDavis

MaighEoAbu wrote: »

I'm in fifth year and love maths and get A1s.

However, when I was looking through the exam questions on the areas we've done, e.g., algebra or differentiation (which I love and can do almost any problem), I found the question difficult. I know that there's a second book to do in sixth year, so does that go into more detail then the first book, a bit like the Junior Cert Maths books?

Thanks!

No, not really. It mostly deals with totally different topics (this is for Text and Test and New Concise Maths). The honours course if long and requires two books.
My suggestion would be to get stuck into the past papers. Practice doing them, then correct them with the marking scheme (both available on www.examinations.ie). You need to get used to the style of question asked in the Leaving Cert. It'll get easier with time and effort.

jumpguy

zam wrote: »

Yeah sure it'll be grand. You basically summed up (ha, pun not intended!) the way everyone feels about LC maths - you can do any sum until it comes to the ever-dreaded exam papers.

They're not too bad. All part A's and most part B's are on par with the book. Part C's are the main things that need exam paper practice. T&T4 Revision questions has some part C's which are ridiculously easy and would only be a Part B in exam papers. And then some Part C's are actually harder than what you'd normally get in exam papers!

The second book sadly is no revision book. It's moar maths. I think integration and further calculus are just some of the major topics covered in it.

HxGH

DGRulz wrote: »

Sorry lads it's not a revision book. There's another 6-8 chapters and a few more proofs in it. I found a lot of the stuff in the second book to be much easier than book one, but then again this all dependeds on whos book your using.

Sigh

DGRulz

HxGH wrote: »

Sigh

I'm using George Humphy's ' New Consice Maths ' if it makes you feel any better

OxfordComma

I remember thinking exactly the same thing in the September of my LC year. In 5th year I didn't think Maths was any harder than the rest of the subjects I was doing and rarely got less than an A in tests, so I really didn't get why everyone kept talking about "how difficult HL Maths is". Then I saw the papers, and I realised that they were actually telling the truth

The papers are an awful shock to see at first, because they're so much harder than even the most difficult question in the book. Try not to freak out too much though! You'll find the papers very, very difficult at first (I know I did), but if you just work as hard as you can and keep trying the part Cs over and over until you get them right (I remember spending upwards of 45 minutes trying to get a single part C right at the start of the year), you'll find yourself improving all the time and developing your Maths skills, although it never really gets easy.

Ruski

Nah, the second book covers more topics such as circle geometry, vectors, integration and the option question (further calculus and series). So if you think that the first book is the course finished, you're very far off.

I suggest getting a set of past papers and practicing to familiarise yourself with how the questions are asked. You'll find that the questions in the past papers are just asked differently than what's in the book, but the questions may actually be easier.

I'm using Aidan Roantree's Maths book, but for the past two months the only books I used were the past papers and notes with solutions for when I get stuck.

**Timbuk2**

Yes it's normal to think that. The part (c)'s are difficult, but often a hard enough part (b) is thrown at you as well (same amount of marks as (c)). Sometimes Q8 PI (Integration) can have difficult part (b)'s and somewhat easier part (c)'s.

The more you do papers, the easier they will become. I was in your position, surprised at how hard they made them.

I also do Applied Maths, and when I saw the exam papers for those, I nearly had a stroke. They are on a completely different level than the textbook, much harder by far.

validusername

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I also do Applied Maths, and when I saw the exam papers for those, I nearly had a stroke. They are on a completely different level than the textbook, much harder by far.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that! Those papers are frightening. :eek:

BL1993

validusername wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that! Those papers are frightening. :eek:

Lol. I share the exact same opinion when confronting them. :P Although nowdays, I'm getting better at them. Just have to think logically, that's all there is to it. :P

Ruski

validusername wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that! Those papers are frightening. :eek:

Fortunately, the marking schemes for Applied Maths are generous enough. I don't use the textbook, I do it as an extra-curricular subject in a different school with Aidan Roantree as a teacher so we get his notes, which seem better than the textbook. All it takes is practice.

Xtina!!

Ruski wrote: »

Fortunately, the marking schemes for Applied Maths are generous enough. I don't use the textbook, I do it as an extra-curricular subject in a different school with Aidan Roantree as a teacher so we get his notes, which seem better than the textbook. All it takes is practice.

The marking schemes in applied maths are "generous"? I thought it was marked in such a way that if you make a blunder then you will be penalised all the way through till the end of the question e.g if the marking scheme for a 25 mark question is 5 5 5 5 5, and you make a blunder on the third 5 for example, you will be marked 5 5 2 2 2, or something along those lines? My teacher said this is how its marked, is this true, because it seems really unfair to be penalised more tham once for a blunder?

Btw, I also thought that about the exam papers, it was quite a jump moving from the text book to the exam papers, but it does get easier over time.:)

Podge_irl

Xtina!! wrote: »

The marking schemes in applied maths are "generous"? I thought it was marked in such a way that if you make a blunder then you will be penalised all the way through till the end of the question e.g if the marking scheme for a 25 mark question is 5 5 5 5 5, and you make a blunder on the third 5 for example, you will be marked 5 5 2 2 2, or something along those lines? My teacher said this is how its marked, is this true, because it seems really unfair to be penalised more tham once for a blunder?

No. A blunder will cost you three marks in total only with some caveats. If your blunder makes the question ridiculously easy then they can hardly give you marks for the subsequent sections - that's a rarity though. The marking scheme is designed precisely so that you are not repeatedly penalised for one mistake.

I also do Applied Maths, and when I saw the exam papers for those, I nearly had a stroke. They are on a completely different level than the textbook, much harder by far.

Applied Maths questions, much like HL maths questions, are actually fairly repetitive in style (possibly more so in AM). If you can get your way through 5/6 years of papers than you should be flying. Be wary as well that though the course hasn't changed in a long time (as far as I know, it may have changed in the 6 years since I did it!), the older papers for AM are much more difficult.

Xtina!!

Podge_irl wrote: »

No. A blunder will cost you three marks in total only with some caveats. If your blunder makes the question ridiculously easy then they can hardly give you marks for the subsequent sections - that's a rarity though. The marking scheme is designed precisely so that you are not repeatedly penalised for one mistake.

Ha so my teacher is wrong?! I may be wrong but is this how the project maths is marked then? Thought I heard that somewhere...
I dont do project maths but I would hate to think that this would be the marking scheme.
Thanks for clearing things up for me!:)

Ruski

Xtina, the applied maths marking schemes are not that harsh. For more complicated questions they throw the marks in just the beginning of the questions (diagrams, formulae, etc) and only give the last five 5 marks if the final solution is long-winded. They'd only take away from one of the steps if you make a blunder, so if you make one mistake, you can still get 22 marks.

Apparently it is possible to get an A in applied maths without getting any of the questions right.

Xtina!!

Ruski wrote: »

Xtina, the applied maths marking schemes are not that harsh. For more complicated questions they throw the marks in just the beginning of the questions (diagrams, formulae, etc) and only give the last five 5 marks if the final solution is long-winded. They'd only take away from one of the steps if you make a blunder, so if you make one mistake, you can still get 22 marks.

Apparently it is possible to get an A in applied maths without getting any of the questions right.

Yeah, I knew they couldnt have been that harsh, Ive asked my teacher about it a few times and he kept saying that thats how it is marked. I told him its a ridiculous marking scheme if thats the way it is. I actually did the exam last year, I came out thinking I got a B1, some things I just completely screwed up and I ended up getting an A1!:D Im sitting my pre this tuesday (Im a repeat btw) and if he marks it like that then Im going to pull him up on it.:cool:

Ruski

Xtina!! wrote: »

Yeah, I knew they couldnt have been that harsh, Ive asked my teacher about it a few times and he kept saying that thats how it is marked. I told him its a ridiculous marking scheme if thats the way it is. I actually did the exam last year, I came out thinking I got a B1, some things I just completely screwed up and I ended up getting an A1!:D Im sitting my pre this tuesday (Im a repeat btw) and if he marks it like that then Im going to pull him up on it.:cool:

I should really revise for my applied maths, but I can't seem to get it. I got 18% in my mocks. Miserable stuff.

Xtina!!

Ruski wrote: »

I should really revise for my applied maths, but I can't seem to get it. I got 18% in my mocks. Miserable stuff.

Well you have plenty of time for applied maths, its a short enough course to revise. As long as you have your set 6 questions and a few back ups.:) Im doing Questions 1,2,3,4,5 and 10. 7 and 9 are my back ups. Just practise exam papers and you'll be fine. 3, 4, 5 and 10 are good questions to pick up marks in if you know what you're doing.

Out of interest, how many questions have people prepared for applied maths? We've done 1,2,3,4,5,7,9 and 10. We're debating know whether to do question 6, I have it done from last year but I dont usually answer that question.

Ruski

Xtina!! wrote: »

Well you have plenty of time for applied maths, its a short enough course to revise. As long as you have your set 6 questions and a few back ups.:) Im doing Questions 1,2,3,4,5 and 10. 7 and 9 are my back ups. Just practise exam papers and you'll be fine. 3, 4, 5 and 10 are good questions to pick up marks in if you know what you're doing.

Out of interest, how many questions have people prepared for applied maths? We've done 1,2,3,4,5,7,9 and 10. We're debating know whether to do question 6, I have it done from last year but I dont usually answer that question.

I'm thinking 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10. With 2 and 4 as backup questions.

Podge_irl

Xtina!! wrote: »

Ha so my teacher is wrong?!

Yes, and I'm not sure it's all that rare either. From experience of both my own teacher and from giving grinds it would appear that a number of maths teachers have no idea how to properly grade papers.

Out of interest, how many questions have people prepared for applied maths?

I only prepared 6 (though this was largely because I was essentially studying it myself). It is, as I mentioned, a reasonably repetitive paper and even when one question is particularly difficult they've been known to just change the marking scheme to make it easier on people. I would say if you have 7 questions prepared you'll be fine.

ruski wrote:

Apparently it is possible to get an A in applied maths without getting any of the questions right.

A slip in every part of every questions would only lose you 12-18 marks and would leave you with no "correct" answers.

**Timbuk2**

We are doing 8 questions, every topic except for 'Moments of Inertia' and 'Hydrostatics'

Sorry for dragging this thread off topic (it was my post above that triggered all this Applied Maths talk).
With regards to HL Maths, the more you do the papers, the easier they will become. The part (c)'s will seem difficult at first, but you often find them repeating. Also, you get into the mind of the examiner more, and will be able to spot quickly what he is looking for.

Podge_irl

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

We are doing 8 questions, every topic except for 'Moments of Inertia' and 'Hydrostatics'

Interesting, I never touched hydrostatics (and am not even sure I could do it now), but I always thought moments of inertia was a pretty handy question. Little point changing your tack at this stage though. 8 questions will have you well covered, chances are you will horse through your primary 6 questions and then leave. AM is tough, but they tend not to through curve balls in the questions.

Making It Bad

We've done all 10 topics and hydrostatics is a mixed bag. If you know the formulas you'll be grand with most questions and sometimes a really good one will come up. In contrast though the questions can be quite iffy sometimes too. The worst topic in my opinion is statics. The questions with the ladders etc. are ok but the questions they've asked in the last few years are real strange.

Ruski

Moments of Inertia is not a difficult question. Part A of the question is just one of three simple proofs you have to learn off, and part B would be an applied maths question using what came up for part A.