Limerick-Galway Passenger Headcount Thread

Transportuser09

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The money provided to the dept's scheme. is a budgetary issue for the DSFA and is of no concern to Irish Rail, once they're adequately compensated for the customers carried on the route.

Agreed.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

Is that the same view the Department of Finance will take? :rolleyes:

IE getting it is better than John Player or Sky Sports or Paddy Power getting it.

dowlingm

To be clear - how does IE account for DSFA pass holders at the moment? Do they have to acquire tickets, albeit free, or can they just flash the pass?

As for the headcount, my objection upthread was the use of the word "objective".

goingnowhere

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

The money provided to the dept's scheme. is a budgetary issue for the DSFA and is of no concern to Irish Rail, once they're adequately compensated for the customers carried on the route.

DSFA funding is fixed and does not vary by number carried and is 50-60% of the actual equivalent ticket cost. So hypothetically if the numbers travelling by train doubled, IE gets not a cent more. In real terms any DSFA pass used for travel on the WRC generates ZERO extra revenue.

The DSFA don't know how many passes exist, and the number of fake passes is crazy, most don't even have a photo on them

Transportuser09

dowlingm wrote: »

To be clear - how does IE account for DSFA pass holders at the moment? Do they have to acquire tickets, albeit free, or can they just flash the pass?

Whether or not its mandatory I don't know but I've certainally seen pensioners being issued train tickets on production of their pass. Similarly on Bus Éireann drivers appear to use the ticket machines to record the allowing of a passenger with a pass on, although in this case they don't seem to be issued tickets. Both these examples indicate that the CIÉ companies do try to record the amount of pass holders using their services.

BenShermin

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Whether or not its mandatory I don't know but I've certainally seen pensioners being issued train tickets on production of their pass. Similarly on Bus Éireann drivers appear to use the ticket machines to record the allowing of a passenger with a pass on, although in this case they don't seem to be issued tickets. Both these examples indicate that the CIÉ companies do try to record the amount of pass holders using their services.

Dublin Bus drivers also use the ticket machine to record DFSA pass numbers. A hell of a lot of the people using DFSA passes on my bus route certainly wouldn't fall into the OAP category, more the go upstairs and smoke hash category to be honest:rolleyes:. Anyway that's for another thread.

AFAIK, DFSA pass holders are subject to the same rules as fare paying pax on IÉ, that is if a ticket office is staffed they have to get a ticket before boarding.

FredsMom

rainbowdash wrote: »

Well, since this is the headcount thread, the report from the west this evening is that due to a technical fault only 2 carraiges turned up for the 17.25 Ex. Galway. All the kids had to double up on seats and even at that there were passengers standing to Ennis.

Additional feedback is that there seemed to be more of a commuter type crowd on the evening train.

I was on this train heading galway to athenry, I commute 5 days a week. It was crazy how packed it was and very dangerous really! There was old women beside me had to sit on the ground. And when it came to getting off I almost couldnt get out in time because I couldnt get passed people. I then saw the galway-dublin 18.05 train going through the level crossing and there was about 6 carriages and all of them looked nearly empty. It is more conveniant for me to get the early train as I finish work most days by 4.30 but to avoid this over crowding I might just hang on that bit longer!!!

KevR

FredsMom wrote: »

I was on this train heading galway to athenry, I commute 5 days a week. It was crazy how packed it was and very dangerous really! There was old women beside me had to sit on the ground. And when it came to getting off I almost couldnt get out in time because I couldnt get passed people. I then saw the galway-dublin 18.05 train going through the level crossing and there was about 6 carriages and all of them looked nearly empty. It is more conveniant for me to get the early train as I finish work most days by 4.30 but to avoid this over crowding I might just hang on that bit longer!!!

It might settle down a bit after a few weeks.

Funnily enough, I was posting in a different thread a while back saying Athenry-Galway train tickets shouldn't be so much more expensive compared to Maynooth-Dublin and Cobh(?)-Cork which are similar distances but have stops inbetween. People were arguing that passenger numbers on Athenry-Galway aren't high enough. Your post and the fact that the station carpark in Athenry is usually full suggest otherwise.

Yes, Athenry-Galway is currently point to point. There are no stops or delays (yet) but I still don't agree with the extent of the price differences between Athenry and Maynooth + Cobh. €11 return if you are buying a once-off Athenry-Galway ticket; not exactly competitive price-wise with driving even with high petrol prices.

dowlingm

Athenry is definitely the place that benefits most because there are now two commuter trains per direction per day and for a 9-5 worker both of the new trains are more convenient than the former ones. The question is of course how much of the ex-Athenry traffic is going south, not west, since that would be addressed by adding capacity out of Athlone as much as out of Ennis. Undoubtedly there is some, but how much?

For example, the 1725 could be a combined Athlone/Limerick service, splitting at Athenry to maximise seats in the Galway-Athenry section for that path and give Athlone and Ballinasloe commuters an option other than the current 1505/1805 departures, if equipment/crew/path can be worked out. As it is, that yawning gap between 1505 and 1805 is part of the reason the 1725 is so popular. However, a set of that length would mean no cheaping out at Oranmore with a 4-car/3x22 length station.

dowlingm

KevR wrote: »

I still don't agree with the extent of the price differences between Athenry and Maynooth + Cobh. €11 return if you are buying a once-off Athenry-Galway ticket

Over half the Athenry services use Intercity equipment - all of the Cobh service is commuter stock, and all of that is older than the 2700s, and it's five intermediate stops (acceleration/deceleration, doors opening leaving in the cold) and 24 minutes which is about an hour a week more stuck on a train than Galway-Athenry.

Just sayin'...

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

Athenry is definitely the place that benefits most because there are now two commuter trains per direction per day and for a 9-5 worker both of the new trains are more convenient than the former ones. The question is of course how much of the ex-Athenry traffic is going south, not west, since that would be addressed by adding capacity out of Athlone as much as out of Ennis. Undoubtedly there is some, but how much?

For example, the 1725 could be a combined Athlone/Limerick service, splitting at Athenry to maximise seats in the Galway-Athenry section for that path and give Athlone and Ballinasloe commuters an option other than the current 1505/1805 departures, if equipment/crew/path can be worked out. As it is, that yawning gap between 1505 and 1805 is part of the reason the 1725 is so popular. However, a set of that length would mean no cheaping out at Oranmore with a 4-car/3x22 length station.

I think the real issue here is would the money spent on the new line from Ennis to Athenry have been better spent on double tracking Athlone - Galway, the numbers using the Athenry - Galway section of the "new" line are not there because a railway line has been built from Ennis to Athenry, they are using the additional services that have come up from Ennis, but they are not using the fabled Western Rail Corridor (it actually doesn't exist cos it aint a corridor its a T junction.

flynnlives

Girlfriend got this from limerick on wednesday afternoon. Very full. Loads of people got off and on at sixmilebridge, ennis gort and athreny.
Good mixture of all ages, loads of women with children as well.

She overheard a couple talking, guy said he got it one morning from limerick and all seats were taken.

trellheim

double tracking Athlone - Galway,

redoubling surely IIRC it was double track at some point in the past.

Ham'nd'egger

trellheim wrote: »

redoubling surely IIRC it was double track at some point in the past.

Dublin-Mullingar-Athlone-Galway was double track until the 1920's when the GSR lifted one track as a cost saving exercise.

dowlingm

The full expense of doubling might be avoidable but dynamic loops at every intermediate station should be mandated. Hopefully a scheme where most smaller stations only get a passing track rather than a full platform/elevator combo could be done so that a place like Attymon would only be served in the peak direction with counterpeak traffic running express through the passing track.

This would not be cheap since it would add to signalling complexity as well as the extra track to be maintained but it is essential in order to allow timetables to come closer to when people want to go rather than when a train can finally enter the station, especially given the ramp-up in competition the M6 brings.

Distant signals are all very well but two-way traffic is the reality on Galway-Athlone and the Waterford line needs similar capacity expansion. If IWT or the timber train adds more service some more capacity on Athlone-Portarlington might be needed too, since we won't see them heading south via Tuam, Ennis and Cahir any time this decade I'd say (especially if IE rip up the Clonmel line as the cost of FF bowing once again to the Wesht).

Hungerford

dowlingm wrote: »

The full expense of doubling might be avoidable but dynamic loops at every intermediate station should be mandated.

My suspicion is that Mullingar-Maynooth may actually be next in the double-tracking queue. The current single-track layout seems to be causing problems for peak-time Longford commuter services. It would also be relatively simple as it was originally double-track.

dowlingm

Hungerford wrote: »

My suspicion is that Mullingar-Maynooth may actually be next in the double-tracking queue. The current single-track layout seems to be causing problems for peak-time Longford commuter services. It would also be relatively simple as it was originally double-track.

I wouldn't argue with that. DARTification of Maynooth and inception of Clonsilla-Dunboyne/Navan will be much harder with delayed Mullingar/Longfords blundering in. Might need a Sligo line traincare somewhere west of Maynooth too.

westtip

flynnlives wrote: »

Good mixture of all ages, loads of women with children as well.

.

School holidays/Novelty factor - Wet Tuesday in October is the acid test.

rainbowdash

westtip wrote: »

School holidays/Novelty factor - Wet Tuesday in October is the acid test.

Why pick a day when its likely to be carrying close to the smallest of passengers and claim its the acid test? So if the train is packed with tourists May, June, July, August and September we ignore it and judge the line on whats likely to be a very poor day?

Victor

For Galway services, doubling / passing loops / dynamic loops and the associated signalling are much more needed Galway-Athenry, Athlone-Portarlington and Ennis-Limerick that Athlone-Athenry as they are the current choke points.

dowlingm wrote: »

I wouldn't argue with that. DARTification of Maynooth and inception of Clonsilla-Dunboyne/Navan will be much harder with delayed Mullingar/Longfords blundering in. Might need a Sligo line traincare somewhere west of Maynooth too.

A depot is proposed for DART2 somewhere in the vicinity of Maynooth.

L1011

rainbowdash wrote: »

Why pick a day when its likely to be carrying close to the smallest of passengers and claim its the acid test? So if the train is packed with tourists May, June, July, August and September we ignore it and judge the line on whats likely to be a very poor day?

Its not going to be making enough (if any) surplus in those three months to offset the other 9.

Those that clamoured for the line are the ones that will be using it (allegedly) in those 9 months, though.

westtip

rainbowdash wrote: »

Why pick a day when its likely to be carrying close to the smallest of passengers and claim its the acid test? So if the train is packed with tourists May, June, July, August and September we ignore it and judge the line on whats likely to be a very poor day?

A fair comment, of course my example is likely to be a low usage day - but I do recall this was going to be a great commuter line - so in a way it is the acid test.

Total number of (fare paying) passengers over the course of a year will be key issue, excluding the pre-existing traffic on the Athenry - Galway commuter route and the same for the Ennis-Limerick route, the WRC has to prove itself in terms of uplift in passengers as a result of building the Athenry- Ennis section, that is the real acid test and will take a year of data to do so, high days holidays and wet tuesdays in October all included. Personally I doubt this section of line will achieve more than 100,000 fare paying passengers per annum - taking every day of the week thats an average of 278 passengers per day on the new line - of course the mythical 300,000 passengers would need 3 times this = 833 passengers per day - remember these have to be on the new section of line.

I have my doubts......good for the pensioners though.

D.L.R.

People in the west who champion this line seem to be in denial about a very basic truth - feck all people live there!

Zoney

D.L.R. wrote: »

People in the west who champion this line seem to be in denial about a very basic truth - feck all people live there!

News to me... I guess people just waste time in traffic in Limerick and Galway sitting behind empty ghost cars? And Ennis is one of our smaller towns despite being approximately the size of Sligo?

paulm17781

Zoney wrote: »

News to me... I guess people just waste time in traffic in Limerick and Galway sitting behind empty ghost cars? And Ennis is one of our smaller towns despite being approximately the size of Sligo?

How many of these people are going from Limerick to Galway?

FlameoftheWest

Zoney wrote: »

News to me... I guess people just waste time in traffic in Limerick and Galway sitting behind empty ghost cars? And Ennis is one of our smaller towns despite being approximately the size of Sligo?

but there are going from isolated houses to isolated workplaces.

invinciblePRSTV

Zoney wrote: »

News to me... I guess people just waste time in traffic in Limerick and Galway sitting behind empty ghost cars? And Ennis is one of our smaller towns despite being approximately the size of Sligo?

Ennis, Galway, Sligo and Limerick are all small towns in railway terms anyway.

D.L.R.

Zoney wrote: »

News to me... I guess people just waste time in traffic in Limerick and Galway sitting behind empty ghost cars? And Ennis is one of our smaller towns despite being approximately the size of Sligo?

This is the denial I'm talking about.

Ennis must be huge because its as big as... SLIGO.

I'm now convinced that Dublin should be an independent state

Transportuser09

I think the size of towns needs to be considered in an Irish context. Sligo generates a fair enough traffic for CIÉ, as is to be evidenced by its rail timetable. As Irish towns go, Ennis is a fair enough size.

Transportuser09

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

but there are going from isolated houses to isolated workplaces.

So workplaces in Limerick and Galway are isolated now?

It also has to be remembered that the presence of the WRC will allow this region to develop, if their is a good transport infrastruture there people are more likely to move there, as are businesses to set up. We have to look to the future, thats what investment is. Rome wasn't built in a day, give it time.

paulm17781

Transportuser09 wrote: »

It also has to be remembered that the presence of the WRC will allow this region to develop, if their is a good transport infrastruture there people are more likely to move there, as are businesses to set up. We have to look to the future, thats what investment is. Rome wasn't built in a day, give it time.

Ah, this old mantra... :rolleyes:

The problem is, WRC isn't good transport infrastructure. It's a poorly relaid, poorly built 19th Century railway line. Something tells me the presence of this line won't have companies flocking out West.

Transportuser09

paulm17781 wrote: »

Ah, this old mantra... :rolleyes:

The problem is, WRC isn't good transport infrastructure. It's a poorly relaid, poorly built 19th Century railway line. Something tells me the presence of this line won't have companies flocking out West.

Well it give it time and we'll see. Its not all about the present. No the line isn't 100% perfect, but by using an old route its cheaper than having to build a completely new one from scratch.

FlameoftheWest

Transportuser09 wrote: »

I think the size of towns needs to be considered in an Irish context. Sligo generates a fair enough traffic for CIÉ, as is to be evidenced by its rail timetable. As Irish towns go, Ennis is a fair enough size.

Many of the trains dearting and arriving at Sligo at any time you would be lucky to have 20 people on them. The average would be a dozen passengers. The journey to Dublin is too long in this day and age and the bus is half the price and a little quicker. Some of the return service fly back on the motorway.

After Longford, the Sligo line is a ghosttrain. Longford commuters keep the Sligo line looking sort of respectable in terms of numbers.

Take away the free travel passes and Sligo town is a complete disaster in terms of attacting meaningful passenger numbers. I suspect if the N4 between Carrick and Collooney Roundabout was upgraded the Sligo train would go the way of the South Wexford line.

Most likely this will happen as the WRC Swinford extention is being opened...and most likely you'll act as if everything is just fine...

FlameoftheWest

Transportuser09 wrote: »

So workplaces in Limerick and Galway are isolated now?

Yes they are. Most people in Galyway work in Ballybrit and most in Limerick in Raheen which are nowhere near your sacred WRC.

Of course you wouldn't know this...

westtip

Transportuser09 wrote: »

So workplaces in Limerick and Galway are isolated now?

It also has to be remembered that the presence of the WRC will allow this region to develop, if their is a good transport infrastruture there people are more likely to move there, as are businesses to set up. We have to look to the future, thats what investment is. Rome wasn't built in a day, give it time.

Pray tell me how will the WRC "allow" this region to develop was is not "allowed" to develop beforehand? The WRC will make not one jot of difference to the economy of the West of Ireland. In terms of Transport infrastructure, public health and safety, supply chain logistics in a modern world etc etc the most important transport project for the west is the upgrading of the N15/17/18 AKA The Atlantic Road Corridor. The WRC will make not one iota of difference to the economy out here so get used to this fact.

Transportuser09

westtip wrote: »

Pray tell me how will the WRC "allow" this region to develop was is not "allowed" to develop beforehand? The WRC will make not one jot of difference to the economy of the West of Ireland. In terms of Transport infrastructure, public health and safety, supply chain logistics in a modern world etc etc the most important transport project for the west is the upgrading of the N15/17/18 AKA The Atlantic Road Corridor. The WRC will make not one iota of difference to the economy out here so get used to this fact.

Maybe "allow" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant it will increase what potential the region already has. I'm not saying it will all happen this year. And I'm not saying the Atlantic Road corridor is any less important. BOTH are. We need to consider the potential of these projects not just in the current context, but also the role they could play in shaping future development in this region.

wild handlin

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Many of the trains dearting and arriving at Sligo at any time you would be lucky to have 20 people on them. The average would be a dozen passengers.

After Longford, the Sligo line is a ghosttrain. Longford commuters keep the Sligo line looking sort of respectable in terms of numbers.

Take away the free travel passes and Sligo town is a complete disaster in terms of attacting meaningful passenger numbers.

Have you ever actually travelled on any of the services to/from Dublin to Sligo and vice versa?

I suppose by "you're observations" Dromod, Carrick-on-Shannon, Boyle, Ballymote, Collooney and Sligo should all be closed down and forgoten about, considering the train is always a "ghost train" beyond Longford.

Get a grip, and stop typing waffle, unless you come up with hard core facts/evidence to back up you're claim.

Irrespective of weather the WRC should have been a complete new line or weather it should have been built in the first is irrevelent at this stage. The line is built, and passengers do seem to be using it judging by reports on various forums. Lets hope this trend continues and that the line will be opened to Tuam and then Claremorris, and start running freight from Mayo - Limerick and onto Waterford. Then we will truely see what lines are "profitable" and which aren't based on revinue from trains operating over the lines......

Transportuser09

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Yes they are. Most people in Galyway work in Ballybrit and most in Limerick in Raheen which are nowhere near your sacred WRC.

Of course you wouldn't know this...

So you're saying in that in these two cities theres only one place respectively where people work? Really?

Transportuser09

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Many of the trains dearting and arriving at Sligo at any time you would be lucky to have 20 people on them. The average would be a dozen passengers. The journey to Dublin is too long in this day and age and the bus is half the price and a little quicker. Some of the return service fly back on the motorway.

After Longford, the Sligo line is a ghosttrain. Longford commuters keep the Sligo line looking sort of respectable in terms of numbers.

Well you don't have to fill the train out of one town on its own. Its kind of a collective effect as the train proceeds through other towns, picking up passengers. This should be obvious. And clearly there is demand for the service, otherwise IÉ wouldn't have it as frequent as it is. A few years ago a middle of the day service from Cork to Charleville was launched, the uptake wasn't great so they removed it eventually. They haven't done this on the Sligo line so clearly it must be earning them something.

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Take away the free travel passes and Sligo town is a complete disaster in terms of attacting meaningful passenger numbers. I suspect if the N4 between Carrick and Collooney Roundabout was upgraded the Sligo train would go the way of the South Wexford line.

Any time I've travelled to Sligo I can't say theres been an overwhelming majority of OAPs, actually a lot of students.

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Most likely this will happen as the WRC Swinford extention is being opened...and most likely you'll act as if everything is just fine...

I don't believe the section through Swinford is planned to be opened. Thats one section which I doubt would be viable.

dowlingm

I'd say they spent a packet on the Shannon Bridge refit so it should be used. Of course it might pay its way in other ways if IE hadn't removed the Sligo freight facility.

flynnlives

i thought this thread was about usage/headcount on the WRC?

Iv checked back 2 pages only to find my post the only relevent post, since then its degenerated into nonsense.

Im no fan of the current line, badly planned etc. but if its going to be a success or failure we have to keep tabs on it.

Take your rants elsewhere!

westtip

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Maybe "allow" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant it will increase what potential the region already has. I'm not saying it will all happen this year. And I'm not saying the Atlantic Road corridor is any less important. BOTH are. We need to consider the potential of these projects not just in the current context, but also the role they could play in shaping future development in this region.

Listen I will debate this issue with anyone till the cows come home (or in the case of the WRC till they blcok the line at one of the crossover points) but whaatever syntax you use - can you please give me a hard economic argument how in the 21st century re-opening an alignment of a 19th century rail line will "increase the potential of the region"

Here are some socio-economic facts for you:

The WOI is relatively sparsely populated

It is one of the highest car dependent populations in western europe

Work places are scattered, and not centred in the town centres serviced by this rail line (yes of course people work in the centres of Ennis, Limerick and Galway - but look at the amount of "out of town centre" economic activity there is.

There is not the critical mass of commuter traffic on this route that justifies the commuter service, that cannot be serviced well by an excellent quality and yes subvented (public transport does need subventions) bus service.

High quality subvented bus services in the west would be money better spent than on the WRC - and would IMO contribute a great deal more to the economy of the area and the well being of the population with no access to cars.

The conversion of this route to a walking cycling trail (my bee in my bonnet) would actually contribute more to the local economies than five trains a day- and in fact this could have been done in parallel to the railway had the powers to be had the vision or the nouse to think of it and take example of this kind of scheme in the uk - go to the sustrans web site to see what I mean. The .pdf on this link discusses the economic impact of cyclying tourism in the North East of England http://www.sustrans.org.uk/resources/research-and-monitoring/the-economic-impact-of-cycle-tourism,

If you can't get into the link then read these key findings, but there are many other documents on the sustrans website that spell out the blindingly obvious.

Key findings

The parts of the four routes lying within the North East attracted 302,000 cycle trips in 2006
These National Cycle Network users contributed £9.6 million directly to the North East economy 2006. This represents a value of £13.4 million to the wider regional economy
216 jobs are supported in the immediate vicinity of the routes in the North East
In 2006 route users from out-of-region visiting the North East generated £5.9 million, supporting 95 full-time jobs

Just take in the figures and examine them then think about the WRC potential.


You say we need the Atlantic Road Corridor as well as the WRC. I think not. We definitely need the former - to save lives on notorious roads such as the N17, n18 and N15, to provide good quality supply chain logistics. to enable safe road based commuting, to enable safe fast express bus services, to provide better access to Shannon and Knock Airports, to provide better linkages for Galway/Limerick/Cork and Waterford.

The point is the train is a marvelous way of shifting lots of people fast in major urban areas - take a look at any area of Europe with rural train services that have had to close and accept the facts of life and economic reality - Look at your Calender the date is 2010 not 1810 - in 1810 yes over the next 90 years there was a transport revolution, called railways, it did change lives, it did open up new areas - but time has moved on - the future for places like the west of ireland is a good quality road infrastructure - with good quality train links to Dublin, from the urban areas we do have in the west; which is why the centre of attention for rail development in the West of Ireland should have been about a high speed link from Galway - Athlone - Dublin and not about a branch line trundling through counties Clare and south Galway - take the emotion out of it and examine the realities of everyday life in the 21st century west of ireland. So what if the train is full a few days in the Easter holidays - it will not take one person off the dole in the West and it will not attract one company to relocate to anywhere along its route - Companies relocating need good IT infrastucture, good road infrastrucure and good airport infrastructure. I suggest you go and talk to IBEC about this issue and see what they say. This is why in Ballina for example the Chamber of commerce is up in arms about the decision of An Bord Pleanala to shelve the N26 extension with a Foxford bypass to the N5 - why because this is VERY IMPORTANT to the town's economic development, just one example of how business is thinking - so I suggest you go off to every chamber of commerce along the western seaboard and ask them about their infrastructure priorities; sure WOT will say they have the support of all the business chambers along the route but have they ever been asked the question - What is the priority? I can tell you unequivocally from my office here in the West of Ireland what the answer is - the maddening thing about the WRC is that it has distracted from the real issues in the west and has been used by the powers that be as a sop to placate a particularly well organised pressure group. No more no less.

FredsMom

Ok, all those people out there that love to rant about the WRC being a waste of money, you were on about this from the moment it was decided to open it again..it didnt get you anywhere, nor will ranting about it now. move on!! and as mentioned already..this thread is a headcount thread, take your bitterness elsewhere!! The west deserves to have a train other than the galway-dublin train, give it a chance!

westtip

FredsMom wrote: »

Ok, all those people out there that love to rant about the WRC being a waste of money, you were on about this from the moment it was decided to open it again..it didnt get you anywhere, nor will ranting about it now. move on!! and as mentioned already..this thread is a headcount thread, take your bitterness elsewhere!! The west deserves to have a train other than the galway-dublin train, give it a chance!

The arguments remain the same and people need to be reminded of them, actually arguing against the dam thing will get us somewhere because in these economic climates the liklihood anymore money being wasted on it north of Athenry will thankfully knock it on the head. I'm not bitter mate I just think its a pity such a small but well organised pressure group like WOT should be the tail that wags the dog.... and it will all come home to roost in the next couple of years when the truth is out about this white elephant I believe we have built comes to light. So please don't try and gag those of us that will continue with the truth (as we see it of course!)

Calina

flynnlives wrote: »

i thought this thread was about usage/headcount on the WRC?

Iv checked back 2 pages only to find my post the only relevent post, since then its degenerated into nonsense.

Im no fan of the current line, badly planned etc. but if its going to be a success or failure we have to keep tabs on it.

Take your rants elsewhere!

FredsMom wrote: »

Ok, all those people out there that love to rant about the WRC being a waste of money, you were on about this from the moment it was decided to open it again..it didnt get you anywhere, nor will ranting about it now. move on!! and as mentioned already..this thread is a headcount thread, take your bitterness elsewhere!! The west deserves to have a train other than the galway-dublin train, give it a chance!

Mod note:

This is backseat moderation and it is not permitted under the charter.

This is a discussion forum and you cannot dictate in all respects how other people respond in thread.

FWIW I am considering merging this into the other WRC related thread - operations.

D.L.R.

FredsMom wrote: »

Ok, all those people out there that love to rant about the WRC being a waste of money, you were on about this from the moment it was decided to open it again..it didnt get you anywhere, nor will ranting about it now. move on!! and as mentioned already..this thread is a headcount thread, take your bitterness elsewhere!! The west deserves to have a train other than the galway-dublin train, give it a chance!

Give a crap idea a chance? What about the other crap ideas that are planned, should we give all of these a chance too, and go bankrupt in the process of trying out all the crap ideas?

Its not even a direct intercity service! It bloody diverts to the metropolis of Athenry (pop 3000). Miles out of the way.

Its MADNESS. No wonder the country's gone belly up with these kinds of things actually getting approved, while the desperately needed Dublin underground projects flounder in bureaucratic limbo.

I'm all for development out west but not this tax draining rubbish.

BluntGuy

I still maintain the people who I feel most sorry for are the people in the West who instead of getting a high-quality bus service or a direct Galway-Limerick rail service got this piece of low-grade trash.

Yes, we'll have to give it a few months before we can declare it a definitive failure, but the fact of matter is that it is already sucking valuable resources out of other areas of the network and quite frankly I think that other services shouldn't be sacrificed purely for the reason of sustaining an unsustainable politically-motivated dungheap of a railway.

The fact that the rationale for not running additional services on the line in the article above is exactly the same logic which showcases exactly why WRC never should have opened shows what a bunch of hypocrites they are, and how the government has no interest in actually running a decent rail service beyond grabbing votes.

Noel Dempsey makes me laugh:

"If we want to provide a reasonable service to 150,000 people along the western corridor and we can't increase the subsidy we can give to Iarnród Éireann, you have to look at those ones which are less used," he said.

I love the way we're still assuming that all 150,000 people have convenient access to the railway and that all 150,000 people would have a need to use it and that all 150,000 would even want to use it, and that 150,000 have the money to use it.

westtip

Bluntguy and DLR well put - all this crap about "giving it a chance" is just that total soft brown stuff.

This project has derailed proper transport planning for the west and as said above was a complete sop to a pressure group whose share of voice in the media and total manipulation of the PR process has resulted in the west getting a project which is totally meaningless to most of us out here. We cannot afford to spend millions in capex and then subvent to "give it a chance". The mismanagement of IE and the DOT is beyond comprehension - the WRC is not even a vote winner....to think this project has derailed rail projects where they are actually needed is truly astounding bad planning poor governance, and to put it mildly downright incompetence.

Carawaystick

FredsMom wrote: »

The west deserves to have a train other than the galway-dublin train, give it a chance!

There are already trains serving every county along the west from Sligo to Kerry. (Sligo, Leitrim, Mayo, Galway, Clare, Limerick and Kerry)

Why do you think a slower, dearer train is deserved by anyone?

Do you think your taxes were well spent on this poor rail line to provide a worse service than private bus services which cost nothing to taxpayers?

foggy_lad

i was on the galway to limerick train today and what a ride!two hours is far too long to be stuck in one of those railcars! the noise was deafening and the ride became backbreaking after about an hour.

now to the figures, i counted less than 30 leaving galway between both cars and even less than that getting into limerick! there was nobody getting on or off the first three stops and after that maybe two at each stop one on and one off, quite a few got off at ennis and less got on. the carparks at the stations were all empty apart from about ten cars at ennis station so commuters are not using any park & ride available!

overall i would say a complete waste of money. a lame duck that will sink into the next floods that afflict this route!