Surface water on new roads (M50 and M7)

Damien360

I drove from Newbridge to Belfast today and back again. The surface water on the new M7/N7 from Naas to Dublin in both directions was terrible making visibility very low. It was the same on the M50 from Red Cow to M1 exit. But once I got on to M1 and all the way to Belfast, it was'nt that bad even though the rain was heavy in places.

Both N7 and M50 appear to have little or no camber hence the lack of drainage. Why are we building our newest roads to this specification. Is this going to be the future for all roads. If so, then accidents will occur by the dozen in heavy rain. Do the builders believe the Green guff about global warming and took it literally.

peasant

In fact the roads will be self-draining, just wait for the potholes to appear. (which we wont be able to pay for to get fixed)

n0brain3r

The N7 can be quite bad Southbound at Citywest. I have come across a couple of accidents where it had at least a part in it. The roof was cut of one car and left sitting in the middle reservation for a couple of months after one might help you recognise the spot. There can be quite a flow not too deep but 2 1/2 lanes wide it looks like the Northbound carriageway drains onto it.

GTE

Damien360 wrote: »

I drove from Newbridge to Belfast today and back again. The surface water on the new M7/N7 from Naas to Dublin in both directions was terrible making visibility very low. It was the same on the M50 from Red Cow to M1 exit. But once I got on to M1 and all the way to Belfast, it was'nt that bad even though the rain was heavy in places.

Both N7 and M50 appear to have little or no camber hence the lack of drainage. Why are we building our newest roads to this specification. Is this going to be the future for all roads. If so, then accidents will occur by the dozen in heavy rain. Do the builders believe the Green guff about global warming and took it literally.

There was going to be a straw breaking the camels back but after reading that a great load of feckin bricks have pummelled the poor thing to death now!


:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

dudara

The N7 northbound between Naas and Newland's Cross can be quite bad in heavy rain, especially in the driving lane. It's probably one of the scariest roads to drive on in the rain.

tossy

Luckily i dont commute to Dublin but i gave up driving to Dublin in bad rain ages ago,the M7 is an absolute joke!

What is the solution? it is of course an Irish solution to an Irish problem,put up large signs saying "Road liable to flooding" and that's the authorities covered!

A joke,but one of only many in that the stand up comedy routine that is the Irish government,if we could enter this people who run this country in the Edinburgh comedy festival we would walk away with the top award!

Berty

The motorways gradually degrade over time and then they get "dressed" by simply spraying another layer of blacktop(without aggregate) and this covers over the original wearing course which has specific distances between the aggregate to allow braking/skidding and drainage.

So as time goes by the powers that be destroy the integrity of the road.

L1011

Berty wrote: »

The motorways gradually degrade over time and then they get "dressed" by simply spraying another layer of blacktop(without aggregate) and this covers over the original wearing course which has specific distances between the aggregate to allow braking/skidding and drainage.

So as time goes by the powers that be destroy the integrity of the road.

The worst bits of the N/M7 and M50 range from 5 to 1 year old, surface wise. They have't been re-dressed. The N7 I'm going to blame on the speed they had to get the job completed at and just making a slight arse of it as a result...

Breezer

Berty wrote: »

The motorways gradually degrade over time and then they get "dressed" by simply spraying another layer of blacktop(without aggregate) and this covers over the original wearing course which has specific distances between the aggregate to allow braking/skidding and drainage.

So as time goes by the powers that be destroy the integrity of the road.

Does that explain the problem on the brand new M50 though? And the fact that the new 3 lane section is far worse than the old 2 lane section south of Sandyford?

thehomeofDob

I drive the m50 three to four times a week, from J6 to J16. Today and I guess every time there's heavy rein there is an unbelievable amount of wheel spray on every part of the new section. As soon as you get past J14 and onto the older road it disappears. It's ridiculous that the newly laid road surface is so bad.

testarossa40

Breezer wrote: »

Does that explain the problem on the brand new M50 though? And the fact that the new 3 lane section is far worse than the old 2 lane section south of Sandyford?

Buried somewhere in the hundred-page M50 Phase II thread on Commuting & Transport is an explanation from someone that (iirc*) when the current PPP deal ends in X years time, it is a condition that when handed back to the state, there must be no major maintenance required for another ~10 yrs (again, iirc) post-handover. In the meantime, the PPP is responsible for any maintenance costs until said handover. Therefore, the contractors decided to lay a "desert-spec" road surface which is very consistent, smooth, hard-wearing material that lasts much longer than the normal porous formulation that is more common in this part of the world due specifically to its ability to readily let water drain through into subterranean drainage. However, this latter material degrades quicker & needs re-laying or dressing more frequently than the desert-spec. I believe the contractors calculated that if they used this material, they would need to fork out for at least one resurfacing before they handed the infrastructure over to fully public ownership. However, if they laid the desert-spec, they would not need to re-surface and indeed I believe they estimated it would still last to just beyond the 10 yr handover period - thereby deftly avoiding a potential big maintenance bill and shifting it onto the Pubic instead... Did anyone say "Anglo" there?

The implication to us mere road-users of course is that this desert-spec asphalt hardly lets any water down through it - at least at nowhere near the rate the normal porous stuff would, and so the effect is the significant layer of water accumulating on the surface and being kicked up as spray during every rainshower. Apart from the almost blinding spray, I might add a commensurately increased risk of aquaplaning as an obvious concern.

*iirc = if I recall correctly - hopefully someone else'll dig up the post in question and verify the actual timelines

Breezer

testarossa40 wrote: »

Buried somewhere in the hundred-page M50 Phase II thread on Commuting & Transport is an explanation from someone that (iirc*) when the current PPP deal ends in X years time, it is a condition that when handed back to the state, there must be no major maintenance required for another ~10 yrs (again, iirc) post-handover. In the meantime, the PPP is responsible for any maintenance costs until said handover. Therefore, the contractors decided to lay a "desert-spec" road surface which is very consistent, smooth, hard-wearing material that lasts much longer than the normal porous formulation that is more common in this part of the world due specifically to its ability to readily let water drain through into subterranean drainage. However, this latter material degrades quicker & needs re-laying or dressing more frequently than the desert-spec. I believe the contractors calculated that if they used this material, they would need to fork out for at least one resurfacing before they handed the infrastructure over to fully public ownership. However, if they laid the desert-spec, they would not need to re-surface and indeed I believe they estimated it would still last to just beyond the 10 yr handover period - thereby deftly avoiding a potential big maintenance bill and shifting it onto the Pubic instead... Did anyone say "Anglo" there?

The implication to us mere road-users of course is that this desert-spec asphalt hardly lets any water down through it - at least at nowhere near the rate the normal porous stuff would, and so the effect is the significant layer of water accumulating on the surface and being kicked up as spray during every rainshower. Apart from the almost blinding spray, I might add a commensurately increased risk of aquaplaning as an obvious concern.

*iirc = if I recall correctly - hopefully someone else'll dig up the post in question and verify the actual timelines

In this day and age, I really shouldn't be shocked, but I am. That is absolutely ridiculous; it should have been built into the contract that the road would have to conform to all proper European standards. Whatever about mortgaging people's futures with the banks, mortgaging their lives... that road becomes a gauntlet every time it rains :mad:

Seth Brundle

dudara wrote: »

The N7 northbound between Naas and Newland's Cross can be quite bad in heavy rain, especially in the driving lane. It's probably one of the scariest roads to drive on in the rain.

Maybe this is why very few drivers use the driving lane and tend to stay rigidly in lanes two and three!

McSpud

tossy wrote: »

What is the solution? it is of course an Irish solution to an Irish problem,put up large signs saying "Road liable to flooding" and that's the authorities covered!

There seems to be one of these signs permanently on the M7 southbound as you pass the Kildare town bypass. It says a lot that a new road is built knowing it may flood.