Europa League quarter final first leg: Benfica v Liverppool

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

but you don't debate with iago, you just choose to try and be little my opinion.

nice one.

I already explained why I believed the goal was legitimate, what more do you want me to tell Iago?

Hey Iago, it was onside,
Thanks for listening,

Regards
Denis

ntlbell wrote: »

raising your hand on TWO occasions in the same instance?

Can you explain what was wrong with his hand raising? you understand the rule is to stop violence?

Peyton Manning

My take on tonight's game, taken from my blog.

Talking Points: Benfica 2-1 Liverpool

1. When The Going Get’s Tough…

…the tough get going. That’s how the song goes at least. But Liverpool fans could be forgiven for thinking that line should be rewritten to “when the going get’s tough, Steven Gerrard goes missing.” It’s quite alarming how a midfielder of Gerrard’s undoubted quality who has had his way with football for years can continue to play so poorly in a whole-heartedly unremarkable season. He made a good start tonight, as did Liverpool as a whole. In seasons gone by, this would usually be an indicator of Gerrard carrying Liverpool, but this season (and the first 10 minutes tonight) the roles have been reversed. As soon as Benfica started to exert serious pressure on Liverpool, the skipper pulled yet another disappearing act. Gerrard claimed a few days ago that he could improve when he wanted to – Liverpool fans are waiting Stevie.

2. Stupidity Rules

For all their dominance and attacking craft, Benfica never looked like scoring from open play. Had it not been for two moments of stupidity from Insua and – to a lesser extent – Carragher, Liverpool would be returning to Anfield with not just an away goal, but a clean sheet as well. Pepe Reina can be hero for Liverpool weekly, but rash decisions from those in front of him restrict his ability to be that hero. Benitez will be furious with the manner of the defeat because of the soft goals, and so he should be.

3. Stupidity Rules…errr…again…

Ryan Babel will be lucky if he plays for Liverpool again. With question marks over his future at the club already, pushing an opposing player in the face right in front of the referee is lunacy. Doing it twice is beyond that. Sure, there was nothing in it, but referees on the continent love to give red cards for this sort of stuff. Albert Riera may not be alone in leaving Anfield this summer, as Benitez must surely be losing patience with Babel.

4. Un-Officials

Despite getting the two penalty decisions correct, Jonas Eriksson had an awful night. Sure, Babel was stupid in doing what he did and there’s no excuse for what he did, but relatively early in the game you’re looking for the referee to exert some sort of common sense. A booking for Babel and a strong word in his ear from the likes of Carragher and Mascherano would have been the kick up the arse he needed. Torres' disallowed goal was borderline, while Benfica escaped two clear bookings for shockingly high boots. Luiz should have seen red on a number of occasions considering he was already on a yellow card. Fernando Torres will be hurting come tomorrow morning for all the kicks he was on the end of.

5. Angelic Stuff

Angel Di Maria did his growing reputation as one of football’s hottest properties no harm with a very impressive performance. He caused problems for the Liverpool backline all night, and was generally at the centre of everything Benfica did going forward. It’s refreshing to see one of these wonderkids with all the tricks and technique being able to strike a ball properly – his crossing and deliveries tonight were spot on. If Benfica can hold onto this kid until after the World Cup, they’ll make a pretty penny.

6. The Cauldron Boiling Over

Having witnessed Man Utd get knocked out of the Champions League at Benfica years ago, I knew this was never going to be an easy night for Liverpool, regardless of both teams’ form. Estádio da Luz must be one of the most intimidating arenas in Europe, and Benfica’s squad is not the only aspect of the club heavily influenced by South America. The crowd were fierce tonight, and Liverpool were thrown by it as United were all those years ago. But UEFA must surely take action on the select few fools who took things too far by throwing objects onto the pitch.

7. What’s Left?

A new left back must be high on the list of priorities for Rafael Benitez this summer. Insua, while still young, has so far failed to deliver on the potential he had promised at Liverpool, and tonight was another example of that. He was the worst player on the pitch, and gave away a silly penalty for a reckless tackle on Pablo Aimar. Fabio Aurelio was once again missing through injury – something Liverpool fans are sadly used to at this stage.

8. Onwards and Upwards

However disappointing Liverpool’s performance was tonight, they can be optimistic for the return leg. Benfica didn’t show me enough to prove they can go to Anfield and progress. Like I said, they never looked like scoring from open play, and the Anfield atmosphere will give Liverpool the same lift that Benfica had from their own fans tonight. 2-1 away from home with 10 men against an in form Benfica side is not the worst result in the world. I think Liverpool will take this back at Anfield

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

I already explained why I believed the goal was legitimate, what more do you want me to tell Iago?

Hey Iago, it was onside,
Thanks for listening,

Regards
Denis



Can you explain what was wrong with his hand raising? you understand the rule is to stop violence?

there's nothing wrong with raising your hand, as long as it's not into someones face.

you see the difference right?

mayordenis

ntlbell wrote: »

there's nothing wrong with raising your hand, as long as it's not into someones face.

you see the difference right?

Of course, why was tonights a red card? Touching a face?

There's nothing wrong with raising a foot, as long as it's not into someones face?

Anyway I'll ask again, you understand the rule is to stop violence?

ntlbell

mayordenis wrote: »

Of course, why was tonights a red card? Touching a face?

There's nothing wrong with raising a foot, as long as it's not into someones face?

Anyway I'll ask again, you understand the rule is to stop violence?

wtf would you be "toching" someone's face, this is football, not a L'oreal commercial.

Jazzy

gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ntlbell! some quality work done tonight chap. you've got mayordenis all riled up. how much points is denis worth in the league btw? id imagine hes a bit mid-table... he has a blackburn quality about him.
on your comeback game as well. just goes to show, class is eternal

niallo27

I think the bigger issue tonight was why the ref let torres get the absolute ****e kicked out of him, he must have being fouled 20 times, i think the officials bottled it big time, the crowd got to them.

mayordenis

Jazzy wrote: »

gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ntlbell! some quality work done tonight chap. you've got mayordenis all riled up. how much points is denis worth in the league btw? id imagine hes a bit mid-table... he has a blackburn quality about him.
on your comeback game as well. just goes to show, class is eternal

That's harsh, I'm neither riled up or blackburnish.

Headshot

because she's worth it

SlickRic

niallo27 wrote: »

I think the bigger issue tonight was why the ref let torres get the absolute ****e kicked out of him

this is my huge issue with the game. full-stop.

everything else was standard enough, and nothing that would have me too riled at all.

but David Luiz staying on the pitch really did bug me.

ShamoBuc

I'm sure he will get a nice reception from anfield every time he puts the boot in next week, just to remind the ref.

kryogen

Torres will be pretty sore by the end of the weekend id imagine alright, in the brief 30 minutes or so that i saw of the game he got the ****e kicked out of him up and down the pitch!

and with Birmingham (i think) to come at the weekend, i am sure he can expect a little more

flahavaj

What did people think of Miguel Delaney on 3e tonight?

Thought he was decent enough adn has been quietly impressive any time I've seen him.

Usually enjoy his artices in the Tribune as well even if his jerking off over Ronaldo is borderline sickening at times.:pac:

K-9

As Archimedes pointed out, despite the Benfica love on here, they only scored from 2 penalties, 1 stupid and 1 harsh enough. Carra IMO was too close to the ball with the sliding tackle, to be reasonably expected to avoid handling it. Was always going to be given though with his hands raised.

Masch was superb again and Kuyt played well.

kryogen

how did Di Maria play tonight?

justify the hype?

Mr Alan

yea he was excellent.

copacetic

kryogen wrote: »

how did Di Maria play tonight?

justify the hype?

yep.

Kirby

Mr Alan wrote: »

even if Kuyt was interfering, there was no daylight between him & the line, he was ahead, but there has to be daylight, there wasn't.

That "daylight" nonsense is a myth. It's not in the rulebook. Perpetuated by commentators and fans who are not in the know. That stuff was abaondoned over a decade ago.

ShamoBuc

I saw enough of Benfica to see why they are currently doing so well. They certainly wouldn't look out of place in the QF of the CL. They have a fair few big men sprinkled throughout the team and can play some nice foootball. That said, I do believe if we get at them from the start next week we will progress through to the semis.
I would like to see a Torres hattrick and for him to wink at Luiz as he collects the match ball! Luiz then lunges at him - pulling a hamstring in the process - and gets a red card as he is brought from the pitch. I'd get good on that I'd say!

The Muppet

Jazzy wrote: »

see this muppet? this is how you do it. really old school right here with ntlbell. see the way hes purposely acting dumb just to further rile up the blood after tonights defeat. effortless presentation that leads to many followups on how he can annoy people after.

hes an old master is our bell

That's so yesterday Jazzy, I gave that up years ago, none of that kids stuff for me anymore.:)

My style of posting is geared towards a more mature intelligent reader, never mind it might come in time.

Chucky the tree

Tbh I wish our defenders would take a leave out of Benficas books. Agger has never been the most physical and that always worries me. I would have loved to have seen either him or carragher take a few lumps out of aimar and co. Especially whenever they came down Insua's channel all night, at least put it there mind that if they want to attack that flank then expect a good kick in the ankle/achilles.

Jazzy

The Muppet wrote: »

That's so yesterday Jazzy, I gave that up years ago, none of that kids stuff for me anymore.:)

My style of posting is geared towards a more mature intelligent reader, never mind it might come in time.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The Muppet

Jazzy wrote: »

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Are you finished with your episode of rants aimed at me tonight , when I wasn't even online to reply. The reason I am so bad at it as you put it is that I'm not trying to do it in the first place, and I still rile you up to the extent of tonights tirade, it's funny really.

flahavaj

Who out of Jazzy, ntlbell and The Muppet was the last to be banned from boards for trolling I wonder?

I think I know the answer and it begins with J.;)

Takes one to know one methinks.

Jazzy

flahavaj wrote: »

Who out of Jazzy, ntlbell and The Muppet was the last to be banned from boards for trolling I wonder?

i wasnt banned for trolling

LuckyLloyd

yom 1 wrote: »

Could have been a lot worse. 2-1 is a result we can come back from
Refereeing was disgraceful.
Babel is an idiot. I hope he gets a b0llocking from the players.
Insua was woeful, stupid tackle for the first peno aswell.
Gerrard started well but was anomynous after Babel was sent off.
Torres was kicked all over the pitch.....looked knackered for his chance
Kuyt had a great game.

Mascherano was immense tonight........fcuking outstanding performance from him.......and we needed it from him too

This basically.

LuckyLloyd

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Benitez "The sending off changed everything"

ntlbell wrote: »

i thought it was the two benfica goals.

Wow, that's really awesome stuff. Incredible actually.

Jazzy wrote: »

gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ntlbell! some quality work done tonight chap. you've got mayordenis all riled up. how much points is denis worth in the league btw? id imagine hes a bit mid-table... he has a blackburn quality about him.
on your comeback game as well. just goes to show, class is eternal

So very true. Kudos are in order tbh.

ntlbell

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wow, that's really awesome stuff. Incredible actually.

Your response to it was awesome.

Thanks for your contribution.

Spiritoftheseventies

So anyway that de Maria chap had a good game last night for Benfica.

The Muppet

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

So anyway that de Maria chap had a good game last night for Benfica.

He missed a couple of sitters early on though he did look good on the ball.

BTW I though you have gone into exile, it's only good friday, you could have waited until sunday for your resurection;)

Vanbis

The Muppet wrote: »

He missed a couple of sitters early on though he did look good on the ball.

BTW I though you have gone into exile, it's only good friday, you could have waited until sunday for your resurection;)

I thought he was good in the first half, poor second half. If Di Maria had played the second half against Insua they have scored from open play id imagine.

Splainc

The Muppet wrote: »

He missed a couple of sitters early on though he did look good on the ball.

BTW I though you have gone into exile, it's only good friday, you could have waited until sunday for your resurection;)

that was cordoza that missed all of those was it not?

Iago

mayordenis wrote: »

Because Iago tries to get his point however incorrect across in a reasonably impartial manner, he is certainly wrong, but at least trying to add to debate.

mayordenis wrote: »

I already explained why I believed the goal was legitimate, what more do you want me to tell Iago?

Hey Iago, it was onside,
Thanks for listening,

Regards
Denis

Just so we're clear, I wasn't wrong. The player was offside, whether he was "interfering with play" or not is up for debate, and I would argue that it's the bastardisation of the rule that's wrong!

Bill Nicholson wrote:

If he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?

Bill Shankly wrote:

If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be

It's absurd to say that a player standing a couple of feet from goal with only the keeper between him and the net isn't interfering with play when the ball goes by a yard on his right. So while the referee was right to give the goal, it doesn't mean the rule is right. That's a bigger debate though, and not really suited to a match thread.

For the second offside (the disallowed goal) the rule has been changed to state that if "any part of the attackers body is an offside position, then he is offside" by that reckoning Kuyt was clearly offside. Again I'd debate whether or not this is how the rule should be enforced, but as it stands it was the right decision.

Personally I think if they tightened up on the first incident and relaxed the rules on the second incident it would make life easier for the officials and improve the implementation of the offside rule.

Iago

While I'm here and with my mod hat firmly on let me say this, there is an increasing number of posts in match day threads that are attacking posters rather than debating the point.

If you have a problem with a post then please report it, if you have a problem with a particular user on an ongoing basis then use the ignore function. In future any incidents I see that are attacking a poster rather than a post will get an infraction as per the forum charter.

Just because somebody has a contrary opinion to you doesn't mean they are trolling, sure some people could make their point better and be less antagonistic, but that doesn't mean that every post made is an attempt at trolling.

ntlbell

Iago wrote: »

Just so we're clear, I wasn't wrong. The player was offside, whether he was "interfering with play" or not is up for debate, and I would argue that it's the bastardisation of the rule that's wrong!

It's absurd to say that a player standing a couple of feet from goal with only the keeper between him and the net isn't interfering with play when the ball goes by a yard on his right. So while the referee was right to give the goal, it doesn't mean the rule is right. That's a bigger debate though, and not really suited to a match thread.

Maybe it comes a lot from people who don't actually play football.

If you're a goal keeper for example you could easily be distracted by kyut there, he's in your peripheral vision, you have to anticipate the ball getting to him be it via a pass or a deflection, does he have time to look left to make sure he is offside so it won't matter if the ball gets to him, do you re-position for that possibility? would this force him to take his eye off the ball currently?

are other defenders distracted by his presence? are they moving into areas they wouldn't normally if he wasn't there?

interfering with play does NOT or SHOULD NOT mean interfering with the ball.

monkey9

That ref was either incompetent or corrupt. I'll believe the former!! Never have i seen Liverpool have to put up with the sort of officiating that they had to deal with last night.

Both penalties were correctly awarded and the red card was, technically, merited!! Babel was an idiot cos all he did was give the ref ample opportunity to show a red.

But that whole incident shows the ridiculousness of football sometimes. Luisao comes through the back of Torres, making no attempt to get the ball so therefore deliberately trying to injure him. He gets a yellow. Babel comes over and tenderly strokes his cheek as if he's gonna come onto him, Mills & Boon style. He gets a red!! Laughable. How can that be more warranted of a red than Luisao's tackle??

The referee and his officials put on the worst display i can remember in a Liverpool match. The were incompetent cowards!

I can't wait for the second leg now. From what i saw last night, we'll beat them at Anfield and get to the semi's. I'm extremely confident about it!!

ntlbell

So the sending off was correct, the peno's were correct.

A yellow for the tackle on torress was correct.

What exactly did the ref do wrong then?


"Babel comes over and tenderly strokes his cheek"

lol

Fuhrer

ntlbell wrote: »

What exactly did the ref do wrong then?


"Babel comes over and tenderly strokes his cheek"

lol

Maybe Babels face was on fire and he was slapping it out

Mr Alan

this thread is still going nicely.

K-9

ntlbell wrote: »

So the sending off was correct, the peno's were correct.

A yellow for the tackle on torress was correct.

What exactly did the ref do wrong then?


"Babel comes over and tenderly strokes his cheek"

lol

The yellow for Torres is debatable but you are kind of missing the point of the last 10 pages.

Its what he didn't do that is the problem!

Peyton Manning

ntlbell wrote: »

What exactly did the ref do wrong then?

If you watched the match (which I actually doubt you have) and still don't know, then there's no hope for you at all. If this had happened to United, I'd accuse you of being in here raging - but we all know you only post when Liverpool lose. God forbid you should support United more than you hate Liverpool :rolleyes:

SlickRic

ntlbell wrote: »

So the sending off was correct, the peno's were correct.

A yellow for the tackle on torress was correct.

What exactly did the ref do wrong then?

two simple sentences...

getting 3 big decisions right equal doing everything right.

kicking our players to pieces, especially Torres, was not dealt with adequately at all.

Boggles

SlickRic wrote: »

two simple sentences...

getting 3 big decisions right equal doing everything right.

kicking our players to pieces, especially Torres, was not dealt with adequately at all.

In fairness Torres doesn't help himself, he does his fair share of star fishing.

flahavaj

Boggles wrote: »

In fairness Torres doesn't help himself, he does his fair share of star fishing.

He's getting more and more petulant as well, not so much just last night but steadily over the last few months.

Spiritoftheseventies

Boggles wrote: »

In fairness Torres doesn't help himself, he does his fair share of star fishing.

Really?

Jazzy

Boggles wrote: »

In fairness Torres doesn't help himself, he does his fair share of star fishing.

you mean getting tackled? i dont really think torres is a diver

copacetic

Boggles wrote: »

In fairness Torres doesn't help himself, he does his fair share of star fishing.

that's ludicrous, did you even see the game?

Boggles

monkey9 wrote: »

That ref was either incompetent or corrupt. I'll believe the former!! Never have i seen Liverpool have to put up with the sort of officiating that they had to deal with last night.

Both penalties were correctly awarded and the red card was, technically, merited!! Babel was an idiot cos all he did was give the ref ample opportunity to show a red.

But that whole incident shows the ridiculousness of football sometimes. Luisao comes through the back of Torres, making no attempt to get the ball so therefore deliberately trying to injure him. He gets a yellow. Babel comes over and tenderly strokes his cheek as if he's gonna come onto him, Mills & Boon style. He gets a red!! Laughable. How can that be more warranted of a red than Luisao's tackle??

The referee and his officials put on the worst display i can remember in a Liverpool match. The were incompetent cowards!

I can't wait for the second leg now. From what i saw last night, we'll beat them at Anfield and get to the semi's. I'm extremely confident about it!!

What a good old fashioned bitter rant.

Corrupt officials. Lolz.

niallo27

ntlbell wrote: »

Maybe it comes a lot from people who don't actually play football.

If you're a goal keeper for example you could easily be distracted by kyut there, he's in your peripheral vision, you have to anticipate the ball getting to him be it via a pass or a deflection, does he have time to look left to make sure he is offside so it won't matter if the ball gets to him, do you re-position for that possibility? would this force him to take his eye off the ball currently?

are other defenders distracted by his presence? are they moving into areas they wouldn't normally if he wasn't there?

interfering with play does NOT or SHOULD NOT mean interfering with the ball.

Yes your right lets change the rules, we cant have liverpool getting these kinds of goals, it was the same with the gerrard incident against Portsmouth, you do make me laugh, lets change all the rulessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Spiritoftheseventies

Boggles wrote: »

What a good old fashioned bitter rant.

Corrupt officials. Lolz.

back to Torres and his alleged star fish antics. dont change the subject.