Limerick tunnel toll rip-off

Berty

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Can't imagine it being that simple ?

What about the planning & CPO stages ?
And you're telling us that the state paid absolutely ZERO to date for the project ?

Of course the state have paid money. But it's like getting a grant for your SME. It's not the Governments business, its still yours.

And it's EU money not the state's money.

Here is the info

Direct Route wrote:

Under the PPP Contract, DirectRoute (Fermoy) Ltd is responsible for the financing, design, construction, operation and maintenance of the Fermoy Bypass for the 30 year period of the contract. At the expiry of the contract the bypass will be handed back to the National Roads Authority and Cork County Council.

Toll operations were subcontracted to an experienced toll operator, Eurotoll Limited.

http://www.directroute.ie/directroute/about/ppp-contract/

Freddie59

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I've posted elsewhere about this.

If it was €1 for cars then twice as many would use it.

Plus, all of the .90 and .80 prices are a con.......if you root around for change like that then it'll slow you up, so they're obviously hoping that people will chuck in a €2 coin.

I'll probably use it once out of curiosity, but I'm paying enough in road tax and petrol tax already, and I've no interest in adding €3.60 to the price of a round trip to Ennis.

I have to agree with your sentiments, particularly regarding cost. Same costs apply down here on the new Waterford City bypass, where the new bridge is tolled. Apparently, they need 12,000 vehicles a day to make it "profitable", but only around 4,000 use it, according to reports.

Like everything, make it cheaper and more people will use it. It costs the bones of €20 per week at present if you use it for the return journey to work. €10 per week would be much more acceptable and would drive the numbers up. But, noooooooooooo - they won't entertain it. Simple economics really.

And the €2 coin? Exactly what happens. On any toll.

phog

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

Nenagh to Birdhill opened yesterday



BTW - how is the toll a rip off? No one is forcing you to use the tunnel, there will be exits/entries to and from the motorway at both sides of the tunnel, thoise that stay on motorway know in advance how much it's going to cost - hence no rip off.

Kess73

Berty wrote: »

On Jobs.ie they are even hiring staff for the Tunnel to work in the control room.

You sure it was on jobs.ie? I only ask as I looked and could not see anything.

Bakharwaldog

Freddie59 wrote: »

I have to agree with your sentiments, particularly regarding cost. Same costs apply down here on the new Waterford City bypass, where the new bridge is tolled. Apparently, they need 12,000 vehicles a day to make it "profitable", but only around 4,000 use it, according to reports.

Like everything, make it cheaper and more people will use it. It costs the bones of €20 per week at present if you use it for the return journey to work. €10 per week would be much more acceptable and would drive the numbers up. But, noooooooooooo - they won't entertain it. Simple economics really.

And the €2 coin? Exactly what happens. On any toll.

But if they half the price of the toll, they would need 24,000 a day to make it "profitable"? i doubt reducing the cost is going to get an extra 20,000 people to use it, or even an extra 4,000. Im not familiar with the road myself but are you saying 50% of motorists choose to not use it because its too expensive?

zuroph

tolls aint for you common plebs anyway, its for us busy business types who have places to go and people to see and arent paying them ourselves :pac:

Berty

Kess73 wrote: »

You sure it was on jobs.ie? I only ask as I looked and could not see anything.

It was in last weeks Leader as well.

goingpostal

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

According to todays Irish Times, Nenagh to Birdhill is open as of this weekend.

Berty

goingpostal wrote: »

According to todays Irish Times, Nenagh to Birdhill is open as of this weekend.

Yes it opened yesterday afternoon. The Infrastructure forum nearly had an orgasm when it happened.

Kess73

Berty wrote: »

It was in last weeks Leader as well.

Never got the leader last week


Will try their website in case they have archives.

Freddie59

c_k_m wrote: »

Im not familiar with the road myself but are you saying 50% of motorists choose to not use it because its too expensive?

Precisely. And the old bridge ain't too far away (and it's free).

concussion

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

It's open....16km's mostly at 80 kph.

Edit...didn't see page 3 has this covered. Oh well.

rubensni

phog wrote: »

BTW - how is the toll a rip off?

I was referring to goods vehicles and motorbikes.

If you'd read my OP, you would see my point is that trucks won't use it and all the high prices for commercial vehicles will do is keep the lorries going through town (exactly what a motorway bypass is designed to take off the streets). Ditto motorbikes which won't gain much in time for 90c considering that they never got stuck in traffic in the first place.

phog wrote: »

No one is forcing you to use the tunnel, there will be exits/entries to and from the motorway at both sides of the tunnel, thoise that stay on motorway know in advance how much it's going to cost - hence no rip off.

Just because you advertise the price of something (as is required by law) doesn't mean that something is not, to give the term its everyday meaning, a rip-off.

Karmafaerie

Icky Thump wrote: »

if it takes a load of cares outta the city its worth it. i wont be using it because i have no need to use it. simple as.

I'm all for any project that takes a load of our cares out of the city.:p

Comhrá

I'm all for any project that takes a load of our cares out of the city

Didn't realise people cared about the city:D

jonski

rubensni wrote: »

I was referring to goods vehicles and motorbikes.

If you'd read my OP, you would see my point is that trucks won't use it and all the high prices for commercial vehicles will do is keep the lorries going through town (exactly what a motorway bypass is designed to take off the streets).

Actually Trucks will use it and save money .

I was of the same opinion until I asked my brother who drives an truck and he said of course he will use it . His explanation was that the amount of diesel a truck uses would mean a shortcut through the city and straight onto the motorway would be a huge saving for him .

phog

rubensni wrote: »

I was referring to goods vehicles and motorbikes.

If you'd read my OP, you would see my point is that trucks won't use it and all the high prices for commercial vehicles will do is keep the lorries going through town (exactly what a motorway bypass is designed to take off the streets). Ditto motorbikes which won't gain much in time for 90c considering that they never got stuck in traffic in the first place.



Just because you advertise the price of something (as is required by law) doesn't mean that something is not, to give the term its everyday meaning, a rip-off.

I read your post, I metioned cars but surely it's the same thing, if a truck wants to use the tunnell it can, it knows the cost beforehand if it doesn't the truck can exit before the tunnell, meander around the city and rejoin after the tunnell, how is this a rip off? A rip off to me is where you have no choice and the service provder uses the lack of choice to charge what they want.

For me, I'll use it when it suits, like last night immediately after the game but on a lazy Sunday morning I'll use the Condell Raod and Shannon Bridge, it's simple really.

rubensni

jonski wrote: »

Actually Trucks will use it and save money .

I was of the same opinion until I asked my brother who drives an truck and he said of course he will use it . His explanation was that the amount of diesel a truck uses would mean a shortcut through the city and straight onto the motorway would be a huge saving for him .

I hope you are right jonski, but I've a feeling that the tunnel will only be used by trucks keeping to a very tight schedule. The tunnel will cut approximately 5km off a journey from Raheen to the Airport, which is the same distance as is added to a Journey from Dublin to Newry on the N2/N52 as opposed to the M1 to avoid the toll there. The toll on the M1 is €6.10 for a HGV, a price not much higher than that for the Limerick tunnel, but as I pointed out Slane is filled with trucks going that route to avoid the toll (and it is a much longer journey time-wise to not use the M1 owing to the poorer state of the road and lack of dual-carriageway for most of it).

rubensni

phog wrote: »

I read your post, I metioned cars but surely it's the same thing, if a truck wants to use the tunnell it can, it knows the cost beforehand if it doesn't the truck can exit before the tunnell, meander around the city and rejoin after the tunnell, how is this a rip off? A rip off to me is where you have no choice and the service provder uses the lack of choice to charge what they want.

For me, I'll use it when it suits, like last night immediately after the game but on a lazy Sunday morning I'll use the Condell Raod and Shannon Bridge, it's simple really.

Thanks for reading it, but I think you missed my point, phog. The Dublin port tunnel has been a great success for that city as it has got the HGVs off the streets because it toll-free for trucks and has been matched with the 5-axle ban between the canals. A similar ban cannot be introduced for HGVs in Limerick because, by law, a toll-free alternative route must be provided to compliment all tolled roads. Setting the toll at over €5 will guarantee that a certain amount of trucks will continue to travel through, and pollute our city.

phog

rubensni wrote: »

Thanks for reading it, but I think you missed my point, phog. The Dublin port tunnel has been a great success for that city as it has got the HGVs off the streets because it toll-free for trucks and has been matched with the 5-axle ban between the canals. A similar ban cannot be introduced for HGVs in Limerick because, by law, a toll-free alternative route must be provided to compliment all tolled roads. Setting the toll at over €5 will guarantee that a certain amount of trucks will continue to travel through, and pollute our city.

Using the port tunnel is a bad example because the aim was to get trucks away from the quays. No leaner drivers are allowed use it and peak time tolls for anything other than a truck is €10 now if those rules were to applied in Limerick then your thread title might be more accurate.

Liam Byrne

I'd prefer if the Jack Lynch Tunnel was an apt example of how infrastructure gets improved.

Unfortunately it's not.

rubensni

phog wrote: »

Using the port tunnel is a bad example because the aim was to get trucks away from the quays. No leaner drivers are allowed use it and peak time tolls for anything other than a truck is €10 now if those rules were to applied in Limerick then your thread title might be more accurate.

the Limerick tunnel is a bypass. What are bypasses designed to do?

phog

rubensni wrote: »

the Limerick tunnel is a bypass. What are bypasses designed to do?

A by pass doesn't have to be free, you say yourself that by law an alternative route needs to be available if a road is to be tolled, there are several routes available to those that don't want to pay the charge. I dont see how you can say that the charging to use the tunnel is a "rip-off".

ninty9er

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd prefer if the Jack Lynch Tunnel was an apt example of how infrastructure gets improved.

Unfortunately it's not.

The Jack Lynch Tunnell is on a ring road of a much smaller scale.

The Limerick Tunnel is NOT BEING TOLLED, the Southern By-Pass is!

rubensni

phog wrote: »

A by pass doesn't have to be free, you say yourself that by law an alternative route needs to be available if a road is to be tolled, there are several routes available to those that don't want to pay the charge. I dont see how you can say that the charging to use the tunnel is a "rip-off".

My God, I'm reading your post with my head in my hands. It's a rip off because in my opinion it will cost way too much for the benefits that will be derived from using it. Below is the OED and Chambers definition of rip-off.

rip-off
noun informal
1 an article that is greatly overpriced.
2 an inferior imitation.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/ripoff?view=uk

rip-off
noun
1 an act or instance of stealing from someone, or cheating or defrauding them, etc.
2 an item which is outrageously overpriced.
http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=rip-off&title=21st

Now please answer my question as to what bypasses are designed to do.

DERICKOO

Berty wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion but as a car driver €1.80 is perfectly acceptable.

this guy works for the state. public money allowance

phog

rubensni wrote: »

My God, I'm reading your post with my head in my hands. It's a rip off because in my opinion it will cost way too much for the benefits that will be derived from using it. Below is the OED and Chambers definition of rip-off.





Now please answer my question as to what bypasses are designed to do.

Bypasses are there to provide a route for traffic that doesn't have a need to travel through the city or town. There no requirement that a bypass needs to be free. The driver has a choice on what route to use 1) the tolled route or 2) the untolled route so I still dont see how it can be claimed to be a "rip-off". If there wasn't an alternative route then your argument might hold up.

Actually, the prices for trucks that you quote on your initial post are cheaper then the routes listed on the NRA site

concussion

rubensni wrote: »

My God, I'm reading your post with my head in my hands. It's a rip off because in my opinion it will cost way too much for the benefits that will be derived from using it. Below is the OED and Chambers definition of rip-off.

They can only rip you off if you chose to give them the money. Simple really.

daveharnett

A service is worth exactly as much as people will pay for it. We won't know if it's 'overpriced' until we see how many people use it.

I think they may be missing a trick in not offering some kind of 'frequent flyer' discount. I can't see many commuters shelling out twice a day at the published rates.

Out of interest, does anybody know if emergency services/bus eireann/other government vehicles are exempt from tolls?

source

daveharnett wrote: »

A service is worth exactly as much as people will pay for it. We won't know if it's 'overpriced' until we see how many people use it.

I think they may be missing a trick in not offering some kind of 'frequent flyer' discount. I can't see many commuters shelling out twice a day at the published rates.

Out of interest, does anybody know if emergency services/bus eireann/other government vehicles are exempt from tolls?

They're not exempt, the state will hold an account with the company operating the toll system, who take the registration of every vehicle passing through then they bill the state accordingly, at least that's how it operated on the M8 and M50.