Limerick tunnel toll rip-off

phill106

knipex wrote: »

Then go the the manned booth....

Jeez how hard is it to understand.

You want change or a receipt ? go to the manned booth.

You dont ? go to the automated booth...

I understand they dont give change . I ask why. There is a coin return slot. I have seen it return coins when it doesnt work for some reason. It is chock full of change, and i think a machine counting my money, and calculating how much to return would be faster then a man.
Given that it is capable of doing so, I merely asked how they could justify not giving change.

Jeez...How hard is it to understand....

thesimpsons

whats hard to understand is that they have the technology and hardware in place so why not use it. It would give shorter queues spread across the 3/4 booths - hence speed up the process. We quite obviously understand which booth to use, it doesn't take high levels of common sense or rocket science degrees to work it out, although the odd thing about common sense it how uncommon it actually is in the real world.

jor el

phill106 wrote: »

I understand they dont give change . I ask why.

Because it slows things down. People reaching into a small coin return slot will take time, then they drop the money, get out for it, etc. It would be a catastrophic failure. This isn't a new thing anyway, or exclusive to Limerick, no toll in the country returns change from the auto-tellers, I'd say it's the same world wide too.

I had to go through the Waterford bypass 4 times over the weekend, and each and every time there were problems at the automatic teller. Whether it's idiots that don't have coins, drop them on the ground, or the machine miss-counting, there was a backlog of cars (only 2 or 3) each time, and for several minutes each time. On the third time approaching, and seeing two cars just sitting there in the lane, I took a quick detour over to the manned teller. The 4th time was the same, except it was 1 car just sitting there. I nearly went in, but turned across the lanes (all empty) to the manned one.

I'll never use those lanes again, it's far quicker to use the manned box, even if you have the correct change.

Berty

Its actually more simple that that.

Next time you get to the Plaza have a look at the position people stop in the lane. They can barely reach the basket let alone reach a tray offering up change.

Anyway today there were NO manned toll Plazas although there was a guy in my lane but he was refusing money from people. He was there because, and you will laugh, because when people threw their money into the receptacle some was getting stuck and he had to come out and "smack" the receptacle.

A lot of bugs.

So if you wanted a receipt today. TOUGH! If you wanted change today TOUGH!

phog

Berty wrote: »

Its actually more simple that that.

Next time you get to the Plaza have a look at the position people stop in the lane. They can barely reach the basket let alone reach a tray offering up change.

Anyway today there were NO manned toll Plazas although there was a guy in my lane but he was refusing money from people. He was there because, and you will laugh, because when people threw their money into the receptacle some was getting stuck and he had to come out and "smack" the receptacle.

A lot of bugs.

So if you wanted a receipt today. TOUGH! If you wanted change today TOUGH!

What about drivers with no coin only notes?

Insect Overlord

phog wrote: »

What about drivers with no coin only notes?

They should prepare for the toll plaza in advance. If someone knows they're going to have to pay €1.80, they can hardly blame someone else when they don't have the right change.

Liam Byrne

Insect Overlord wrote: »

They should prepare for the toll plaza in advance. If someone knows they're going to have to pay €1.80, they can hardly blame someone else when they don't have the right change.

Sorry, but that's nuts!

Do you take the correct change to the pub with you? Or the cinema?

Would you accept if those organisations said "sorry, we're not giving change today"

osarusan

I thought it's a law in this country that if you offer legal tender for something, and it is refused, you are not obliged to pay for what you're getting - you can just take it. (The exception to this being if you try to pay for say a new car with 1-cent coins - there is a limit for this kind of payment)
How do toll-booths get around this legislation (if, as I believe, it exists)?

EDIT: Wikipedia tells me this:

In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote.

However, restaurants that do not collect payment until after a meal is served would have to accept that legal tender for the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.

As I haven't been through the tunnel, can somebody tell me if you pay at the start or end of the tolled section?

Berty

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Would you accept if those organisations said "sorry, we're not giving change today"

Dublin bus don't do change and have not for many years. Your refund is a piece of paper which you "CAN" go to their offices on O'Connel Street and "ASK" for your change.

It forced people to give the right change or not bother asking for the refund. So, if Dublin bus can do it for years then other companies will also be allowed.

seawolf145

rubensni wrote: »

Motorbikes__________€0.90
Cars_______________€1.80
Buses______________€3.20
Commercial .5t____€3.20
>3.5t 2/3 axle_______€4.50
>3.5t 4+ axle________€5.70

OK, Slane is full of lorries avoiding the toll on the M1 Drogheda bypass, so how many trucks will pay €5.70 to get across the Shannon?

Why do motorbikes have to pay 90c when they never needed the bypass as they can just buzz through traffic? How many will bother stopping, having to pull off their helmet and gloves to fish out 90c for this?

In other words, cars will use this, no one else will bother. Too expensive.

Stop whining and get on with it.Its here to stay.
Other countries have had it for years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_Europe

Norway has a sixty-year experience in road tolling for financing bridges, tunnels and roads. Until the beginning of the 1980s contributions of tolls to the road building budget stagnated at about 5%, since then it has soared to more than 25% in 2000. Those twenty years were marked by the advance of road tolling in urban areas.

Is it true that it actually costs 18c more to use the tag?..
if so thats unf*ckingbelievable..
only in ireland..

rubensni

seawolf145 wrote: »

Stop whining and get on with it.Its here to stay.
Other countries have had it for years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_Europe

Norway has a sixty-year experience in road tolling for financing bridges, tunnels and roads. Until the beginning of the 1980s contributions of tolls to the road building budget stagnated at about 5%, since then it has soared to more than 25% in 2000. Those twenty years were marked by the advance of road tolling in urban areas.

Other countries don't toll bypasses as charging to use a road that is designed and built for the specific purpose of getting traffic out of town is self-defeating.

The Waterford bypass (also tolled) has been a dismal failure since it opened with most traffic continuing to travel through the city.

Slane needs a bypass to facilitate the amount of vehicles (esp. HGVs) avoiding the tolls on the Drogheda bypass.

Omens are not good for Limerick tunnel.

DemoniK

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it true that it actually costs 18c more to use the tag?..
if so thats unf*ckingbelievable..
only in ireland..

It can do..
If you do a pre-paid tag from tolltag.ie they charge 10% per transaction, but you have 0 admin fee or minimum top up period - hence 18c.

If you go with a leased tag (again from tolltag.ie) they charge €1.21 flat rate per month as a charge - and you don't pay any other fees on the toll transaction.

Other tags may vary.

IMHO - if you plan to use the tunnel frequently get a leased tag - it's the cheapest. If you plan to use the tunnel intermittently (i.e. less than 10 times a month) then a pre-paid is better, or even best would be to put up with the time lost and pay toll direct. A pre-paid tag is useful however if you wish to use the express lanes on other routes - e.g. to Dublin Airport.
Just me 2c

RichieO

concussion wrote: »

There's no such thing as road tax.

Where do you live, a Borneo jungle or Antarctica??

And what's that expensive round bit of paper stuck on most cars windscreens?

jor el

RichieO wrote: »

Where do you live, a Borneo jungle or Antarctica??

And what's that expensive round bit of paper stuck on most cars windscreens?

That would be the motor tax disc. There is no road tax.

Deleted User wrote:

Is it true that it actually costs 18c more to use the tag?..
if so thats unf*ckingbelievable..
only in ireland..

On the tag issue, if you're using tolls any way frequently, then the tag makes things easier for you because you can go straight through the tolls without stopping. This comes at a cost, either fixed monthly, or 10% of toll. It's not just Ireland either, any country that operates such tag services will have a fee associated with them. So no, not only in Ireland.

thesimpsons

osarusan wrote: »

As I haven't been through the tunnel, can somebody tell me if you pay at the start or end of the tolled section?

all depends where coming from - if coming from Shannon area you pay before you go through tunnel, if coming from Dock Road, you pay after going through tunnel.

munstergirl

Used the tunnel twice in middle of afternoon, and i was the only car, both times, kinda freaky.

Amtmann

rubensni wrote: »

I hope you are right jonski, but I've a feeling that the tunnel will only be used by trucks keeping to a very tight schedule. The tunnel will cut approximately 5km off a journey from Raheen to the Airport, which is the same distance as is added to a Journey from Dublin to Newry on the N2/N52 as opposed to the M1 to avoid the toll there. The toll on the M1 is €6.10 for a HGV, a price not much higher than that for the Limerick tunnel, but as I pointed out Slane is filled with trucks going that route to avoid the toll (and it is a much longer journey time-wise to not use the M1 owing to the poorer state of the road and lack of dual-carriageway for most of it).

Commercial vehicles pay a higher toll but 60% of what they pay is tax deductable.

phog

Berty wrote: »

Dublin bus don't do change and have not for many years. Your refund is a piece of paper which you "CAN" go to their offices on O'Connel Street and "ASK" for your change.

It forced people to give the right change or not bother asking for the refund. So, if Dublin bus can do it for years then other companies will also be allowed.

Nonsense, you're not comparing like with like.

This is the first toll plaza in any country that I have encountered where there isn't an attendant in operation to provide receipts or change.

Twin-go

It looked like there was free north bound use of the Tunnel yesterday evening. Express lane was open but there was no barrier and my Tag didn't beep like it normally does. Not sure if this is still the case. But if you're going that could be worth it to try as use express lane.

lasno

phog wrote: »

Nonsense, you're not comparing like with like.

This is the first toll plaza in any country that I have encountered where there isn't an attendant in operation to provide receipts or change.

I have been through the Limerick tunnel on several occasions and there were manned booths at all times. Change and receipts readily available.

source

phog wrote: »

Nonsense, you're not comparing like with like.

This is the first toll plaza in any country that I have encountered where there isn't an attendant in operation to provide receipts or change.

Not true, the slip roads from Fermoy to the M8, have toll booths which are pretty much continually unmanned. You can only use the automated baskets on it.

phog

foinse wrote: »

Not true, the slip roads from Fermoy to the M8, have toll booths which are pretty much continually unmanned. You can only use the automated baskets on it.

So what happens the driver who pulls up at an unmanned barrier, hasn't got change, does that car block to route for all other users?

Say a non euro zone tourist arrives in Shannon, hires a car, heads off in towards Limerick, see sign for toll route, happy enough to continue because they have euro notes, arrives at toll plaza and it's not manned. What happens next? They have money and prepared to pay the toll but the toll cant accept their money.

Paul101

DaDumTish wrote: »

i think the question to ask yourself is this

1/ would i spend 3.60 or close to it going the long way round - on petrol

2/ do i value my time enough to want to save some of it ?

say you save 20 - 30 mins a day -
thats about two hours a week -
100 hours a year
- 4000 hours in a 40 year working life
= 166 days or nearly 6 months of your life saved .

at a cost of 30000 euro over 40 years.

30000 euro for 6 months of your life - is it worth it ?

Well said. It is amazing how upset people get over the charge to cross the short way and avoid all the traffic. I worked in Shannon for years and spent months of my life sitting in traffic. The new road is excellent, I did cratloe to the N69 in 4 minutes and I don't hink I broke the speed limit

Red Silurian

Paul101 wrote: »

I did cratloe to the N69 in 4 minutes and I don't hink I broke the speed limit

You may have been doing 81km/h in the tunnel but don't worry i wont tell lol

On the point about electronic tolling has nobody heard of the trip card?
http://www.limericktunnel.com/Download/TripCardRegistration.pdf
You can't use the tag lane and I think you have to go to a manned barrier but you get 10% off the charges which is pretty sweet

rubensni

Furet wrote: »

Commercial vehicles pay a higher toll but 60% of what they pay is tax deductable.

Tell it to the people of Slane: 1,600 trucks pass through the village each day, many avoiding those tax deductible tolls on the M1.

The Limerick tunnel should be made toll free for lorries and a HGV ban should then be implemented in the city similar to Dublin.

So long as a toll exists on the tunnel no ban of this type can be introduced as a toll-free alternative must be provided.

Paul101

phog wrote: »

So what happens the driver who pulls up at an unmanned barrier, hasn't got change, does that car block to route for all other users?

Say a non euro zone tourist arrives in Shannon, hires a car, heads off in towards Limerick, see sign for toll route, happy enough to continue because they have euro notes, arrives at toll plaza and it's not manned. What happens next? They have money and prepared to pay the toll but the toll cant accept their money.

Hi. I have been on the new N18 toll in all directions over the last week and there are manned booths on all sections. The main road seems to have 2 booths with people who give change and receipts, twl lanes for coin only and one extress lane that is for Toll tags only. All lanes have the EToll sign so I guess the tags work on all lanes also. The road down to caherdavin has one manned lane, one coin only and one tag only again with all 3 taking tags.

phog

Paul101 wrote: »

Hi. I have been on the new N18 toll in all directions over the last week and there are manned booths on all sections. The main road seems to have 2 booths with people who give change and receipts, twl lanes for coin only and one extress lane that is for Toll tags only. All lanes have the EToll sign so I guess the tags work on all lanes also. The road down to caherdavin has one manned lane, one coin only and one tag only again with all 3 taking tags.

Thank you and that has been my experience too but I was responding to two posters who have said they have found toll plazas with unmanned booths and questioning how vehicles that are coinless get through, I know I'd block the barrier if I was in that situation.

source

phog wrote: »

Thank you and that has been my experience too but I was responding to two posters who have said they have found toll plazas with unmanned booths and questioning how vehicles that are coinless get through, I know I'd block the barrier if I was in that situation.

Toll booths that are unmanned, i have only seen on slip roads, never at the main line toll booth.

If someone is heading towards a road that the know is tolled, and they don't have change then, in my mind, tough. Back in the day when car park pay machines didn't take notes what did you do?

You went and got change before you got your car back. simples.

The mainline toll booth, which tourists will wind up using will be manned 24/7. It's the clondrinagh toll booth that has been mentioned as being unmanned not the mainline.

Another point i'd like to make: the difference on the dock road at lunch time and in the evenings between 4 and 7pm is phenomenal. Where before you'd be stuck in traffic back as far as the first topaz, now you can just keep moving the whole way to the traffic lights it's great.

phog

foinse wrote: »

If someone is heading towards a road that the know is tolled, and they don't have change then, in my mind, tough. Back in the day when car park pay machines didn't take notes what did you do?

You went and got change before you got your car back. simples.

I've never seen advance notice that a toll road plaza may be unmanned and exact change is required. In fact on most roads you dont see the charges until it's too late to get off the road.

In your example and the example Berty gave about exact change there is an easy solution, go get change but on a toll road there is no exit near the barrier to allow you exit and get change, therefore, in my view the barriers should be manned 24X7 or a change machine provded.

As I say, if it happens to me I will block the barrier until someone comes to check what the matter is.