Why isnt the proposed Limerick-Cork motorway going via Mitchelstown?

samsemtex

Im just looking at the proposed routes for the limerick Cork motorway and i really cant see why they dont just have a motorway extended on to the current road which is already there. The M8 between mitchelstown and cork is already there and it is hugely under capacity. Going to Limerick via the R513 is almost exactly the same distance as any of the proposed routes and half the motorway would already be built. Why isnt it being considered?

L1011

A lot of the proposed route is being done via overlay on the existing N20, so its a LOT cheaper in land costs than going along the R513. Also they intend to build the (proper) Cork NRR with the M20.

The worst bits of the N20 would have to be realigned anyway for safety - the local traffic alone is a lot higher than the amounts that justified total realignment of some R roads near me (Maynooth->Barberstown, Kilcock->Summerhill).

corktina

I dont think thats really the case. The existing stretch that can be used goes from Cork to Rathduff, which is a far shorter distance than the M8 to Mitchelstown. The rest of the M20 will be new build as far as Patrickswell Limerick, which is a greater distance than Mitch to Limerick.

The country between Mitch and Lim is far more hilly than Rathduff to Limerick and I think that would be the reason coupled with stated necessary road improvements north of Mallow and the NRR requirements.

samsemtex

did i post this in Motors? Could one of the mods move it to infrastructure please?

alias no.9

Good question and despite the obvious justification for keeping the current route, would a Cork - Limerick route via Mitchelstown make more sense in the context that you also had a Cahir - Waterford motorway or High Quality Dual Carriageway creating a pan Munster (except Kerry) network of Motorway and High Quality Dual Carriageway to help to build the region as more of an economic counterbalance to the greater Dublin area.

corktina

except Kerry and most of North Cork

Berty

There would be no justification in putting a road from Limerick to Mitchelstown just to join the M8.

What about traffic heading to North and North West Cork, Charleville, Millstreet, Mallow and heading across country to get to West Cork and beyond.

Why should they have to join onto the M8 to all land on the Dunkettle Interchange at the same time. It would be freakin gridlock.

Cheaper it may be but inpracticle it truly is.

alias no.9

Berty wrote: »

There would be no justification in putting a road from Limerick to Mitchelstown just to join the M8.

What about traffic heading to North and North West Cork, Charleville, Millstreet, Mallow and heading across country to get to West Cork and beyond.

Why should they have to join onto the M8 to all land on the Dunkettle Interchange at the same time. It would be freakin gridlock.

Cheaper it may be but inpracticle it truly is.

Of the places you listed, only people heading to West Cork would ever consider going via Cork City so I don't know how you'll find them all converging on Dunkettle, regardless of the route from Limerick to Cork.
If their choice was between motorway to Cork and onto West Cork via the Bandon Road, or come off in Mallow, through Millstreet, Macroom and onto West Cork, the motorway will make much more sense except at the busiest of peak traffic hours.
It wouldn't matter a damn either whether they come into Cork via the M8 or on a new Motorway on the current N20 allignment because the proposed North Ring Road will complete the full orbital route around Cork City and they can choose to go clockwise or anti-clockwise depending on the traffic. Just because the anti-clockwise route, from either the M8 or a new M20 will be new, it doesn't mean it will be quicker than going via the tunnel and south link as there'll be a major rebalancing of all through traffic across Cork City.

samsemtex

corktina wrote: »

I dont think thats really the case. The existing stretch that can be used goes from Cork to Rathduff, which is a far shorter distance than the M8 to Mitchelstown. The rest of the M20 will be new build as far as Patrickswell Limerick, which is a greater distance than Mitch to Limerick.

The country between Mitch and Lim is far more hilly than Rathduff to Limerick and I think that would be the reason coupled with stated necessary road improvements north of Mallow and the NRR requirements.

Thats not true. Getting from Cork to Limerick via Mitcehlstown is already less time consuming than going via Mallow. Cork to mitchelstown takes 30 minutes and mitchelstown to limerick via the R513 takes 45 mins and thats on a poor road.

That road between Mitchelstown and Limerick is not hilly. Its actually quite flat. There is a small stretch through the galtees but that is relatively short and I wouldnt imagine it would be a problem. Another bonus is that a lot of the farmland in that area is quite rubbish so you wouldnt be ruining good farm land.

Berty wrote: »

What about traffic heading to North and North West Cork, Charleville, Millstreet, Mallow and heading across country to get to West Cork and beyond.

Why should they have to join onto the M8 to all land on the Dunkettle Interchange at the same time. It would be freakin gridlock.

Cheaper it may be but inpracticle it truly is.

A North ring road is the answer to that.

corktina

samsemtex wrote: »

Thats not true. Getting from Cork to Limerick via Mitcehlstown is already less time consuming than going via Mallow. Cork to mitchelstown takes 30 minutes and mitchelstown to limerick via the R513 takes 45 mins and thats on a poor road.

That road between Mitchelstown and Limerick is not hilly. Its actually quite flat. There is a small stretch through the galtees but that is relatively short and I wouldnt imagine it would be a problem. Another bonus is that a lot of the farmland in that area is quite rubbish so you wouldnt be ruining good farm land.



.

That depends on where you are in Cork City doesnt it?I wasnt talking about time, I was talking about cost per km

corktina

samsemtex wrote: »

A North ring road is the answer to that.

Are you suggesting that I and everyone else in North Cork who wants to go to Dublin should first drive to Cork! With an M20 we will be able to go via Limerick, a far easier journey.

Stinicker

corktina wrote: »

Are you suggesting that I and everyone else in North Cork who wants to go to Dublin should first drive to Cork! With an M20 we will be able to go via Limerick, a far easier journey.

The majority of people in South Kerry and West Cork take the South Ring and Jack Lynch Tunnel to connect with the M8 mainly because N72 to Mallow and N73 to Mitchelstown are nothing but glorified Bohereens. The N22 from Killarney to Cork is a far superior road and even the Ballyvourney to Macroom isn't as bad since they took a few turns and resurfaced it with tarmac so its not riddled with potholes. I have driven from the Red Cow to Killarney in just under 3 hours using the M8 - N22 via Cork City.

samsemtex

corktina wrote: »

Are you suggesting that I and everyone else in North Cork who wants to go to Dublin should first drive to Cork! With an M20 we will be able to go via Limerick, a far easier journey.

No Im suggesting you do the much more clever thing and drive to Mitchelstown! Mitchelstown is about 20 mins from everywhere in North cork and less than 2 hours from Dublin. So its much the same thing really.

A Cork-Limerick motorway isnt supposed to benefit only people who live around Mallow/Charleville. Having it go through Mitchelstown would make it much more practical for people living in South Tipp and West Waterford as well. It is also far more practical for people living in West Cork and much of Kerry. I think its a far better route.

peasant

This thread is useless without a map

(for those of us who live outside the republic .......of Cork)

samsemtex

peasant wrote: »

This thread is useless without a map

(for those of us who live outside the republic .......of Cork)

Ill get right on that!!

corktina

samsemtex wrote: »

No Im suggesting you do the much more clever thing and drive to Mitchelstown! Mitchelstown is about 20 mins from everywhere in North cork and less than 2 hours from Dublin. So its much the same thing really.

A Cork-Limerick motorway isnt supposed to benefit only people who live around Mallow/Charleville. Having it go through Mitchelstown would make it much more practical for people living in South Tipp and West Waterford as well. It is also far more practical for people living in West Cork and much of Kerry. I think its a far better route.

what has driving to Mitchelstown got to do with the North Ring Road then?

corktina

samsemtex wrote: »

No Im suggesting you do the much more clever thing and drive to Mitchelstown! Mitchelstown is about 20 mins from everywhere in North cork and less than 2 hours from Dublin. So its much the same thing really.

A Cork-Limerick motorway isnt supposed to benefit only people who live around Mallow/Charleville. Having it go through Mitchelstown would make it much more practical for people living in South Tipp and West Waterford as well. It is also far more practical for people living in West Cork and much of Kerry. I think its a far better route.

20 mins in my backside!

Kanturk is about double that..god alone knows how long it would take from Rockchapel or Millstreet...

samsemtex

corktina wrote: »

what has driving to Mitchelstown got to do with the North Ring Road then?

Well you seem to be suggesting that this motorway should be built purely for people in the North Cork region. I mentioned the North ring road as a way of showing that not all traffic would have to descend on the Dunkettle motorway.

Anyway. For those of you not in the area. This obviously isnt a scale map but it should give you a rough idea.

corktina

shakes head sadly....

samsemtex

why?

corktina

in a world of politics, the only way our Masters could move the M20 as you suggest is to agree to the alternative upgrading of the N72 Mallow to Mitchelstown and N20 north of Mallow as a minimum. . Wheres the saving?

Mitchelstown is in the extreme north east corner of Cork..North Cork stretches many many miles west of there.Your estimate of 20 minutes from anywhere in North Cork to Mitchelstown along the worst road in Ireland is frankly ridiculous.It takes twenty minutes from Kanturk to Mallow alone and North Cork stretches one hell of a way further west than Kanturk! Just look at your own map...

samsemtex

Again...you seem to be under the impression that a Cork limerick road should be there to serve Kanturk, Mallow, Charleville, etc. The fact is that they people coming from those towns only make up a small proportion of the traffic coming from those towns. And if they are going to Dublin they can go the exact same way they always went. The road will be much faster once the cork limerick traffic is gone from it.

And the N72 will have to be upgraded at some stage anyway. Yes 20 mins Kanturk to Mitchelstown is unrealistic but Charleville and Mallow arent much more than that.

mfceiling

Stinicker wrote: »

The majority of people in South Kerry and West Cork take the South Ring and Jack Lynch Tunnel to connect with the M8 mainly because N72 to Mallow and N73 to Mitchelstown are nothing but glorified Bohereens. The N22 from Killarney to Cork is a far superior road and even the Ballyvourney to Macroom isn't as bad since they took a few turns and resurfaced it with tarmac so its not riddled with potholes. I have driven from the Red Cow to Killarney in just under 3 hours using the M8 - N22 via Cork City.

Really????

Did you do this in the middle of the night?

Hooch

corktina wrote: »

20 mins in my backside!

Kanturk is about double that..god alone knows how long it would take from Rockchapel or Millstreet...

55 mins in Traffic.....

corktina

samsemtex wrote: »

Again...you seem to be under the impression that a Cork limerick road should be there to serve Kanturk, Mallow, Charleville, etc. The fact is that they people coming from those towns only make up a small proportion of the traffic coming from those towns. And if they are going to Dublin they can go the exact same way they always went. The road will be much faster once the cork limerick traffic is gone from it.

And the N72 will have to be upgraded at some stage anyway. Yes 20 mins Kanturk to Mitchelstown is unrealistic but Charleville and Mallow arent much more than that.

It should be there because it is scheduled to be there. North Cork isnt calling for something extra.
I drove the Mitchelstown to Limerick road yesterday and I seriously doubt you could make a route at Motorway maximum gradient up that mountainside without a tunnel. As i said earlier, I suspect the route is where it is because what you propose isnt feasible.The northern part of the route is very flat, but so also is the mallow to limerick stretch.