Manchester United Vs Chelsea saturday 03Apr10 KO 12:45PM (MOD NOTE - POST #549)

flahavaj

IvySlayer wrote: »

How may I ask? They have Spurs and Liverpool away. Only 2 points ahead. The pressure is on them imo.

If they win all their games they can't be caught.

United could win all theirs and still not be champions.

Ergo, the league is in Chelsea's hands.

Vanbis

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

United look to have the easier run in. But still a lot of football to be played. Could well go down to last game of season

I dont know, Man City is another banana skin for me which could turn out to be a must win for us.

abouttobebanned

Gotta love SKY...before this match this was "The Title Decider"

Now it's "Still Wide Open"

eZe^

IvySlayer wrote: »

How may I ask? They have Spurs and Liverpool away. Only 2 points ahead. The pressure is on them imo.

Thought the phrase is clear enough 'it's completely in their hands' - they know if they win all their remaining fixtures they win the league. United don't have that luxury. Man United also have to play Man City and Tottenham, so it's not as cut and dry as saying Chelsea have a much more difficult run in.

Essien

Liam O wrote: »

United would've been at 1-1 if they got the peno and scored and had a head of steam and would've pushed on imo and could've easily nicked a goal if the linesman wasn't so incompetent and gotten a draw.

I'm gonna hazard a guess here and say I know exactly as much as you do about what would have happened had either decision gone gone Uniteds way.
I'm gona say Chelsea would have pushed on and taken the lead because they know how valuable the 3 points were.
See how that works? Not very logical is it?
Discussing what would have happened when the margins are so fine is absolutely pointless, almost laughable.

Spiritoftheseventies

Vanbis wrote: »

I dont know, Man City is another banana skin for me which could turn out to be a must win for us.

Yeah I think that is possibly the one game that might prove difficult for United. But wou8ld expect them to win other games.

K-9

Drumpot wrote: »

When the decisions were or were not given, they favoured chelski more . . At 1-1 its a completely differant game and chelski dont have that chance for their peno callas the game goes a differant direction. . At 2-0 with 10 mins to go, united lost 2 and a half mins before scoring (and it knocked them off their stride in a half they were dominating) . I cant explain it to you any better then that . .

Yes, but then the Chelsea penalty claim wouldn't have happened and if Drogbas goal had been disallowed, Macheda wouldn't have got his goal.

See where I'm going with this.....................

Drumpot

Essien wrote: »

I'm gonna hazard a guess here and say I know exactly as much as you do about what would have happened had either decision gone gone Uniteds way.
I'm gona say Chelsea would have pushed on and taken the lead because they know how valuable the 3 points were.
See how that works? Not very logical is it?
Discussing what would have happened when the margins are so fine is absolutely pointless, almost laughable.

Ah, so a decision that makes a game 2-0 has the same effect on a game as a decision that makes it 1-1 ? ?

Listen, chelski did the better out of todays game no matter what way you put it . . United didnt deserve to win but the ref decisions ended up with a chelsea win . . I know had the roles been reversed we would be hearing alot of complaints at how united always get ref decisions etc . .

rossie1977

i wonder what the odds were first day of season on utd and liverpool having lost a combined 28 matches overall by april 3rd

BazBox

cant really complain about today, chelsea deserved it and we were not up to scratch in the first half. Saying that, league is not over and it could all change in the coming weeks again come on United!

flahavaj

rossie1977 wrote: »

i wonder what the odds were first day of season on utd and liverpool having lost a combined 28 matches overall by april 3rd

Its been a mental season at all levels.

wheres me jumpa

United non existent in the first half. United unable to put possession to use in the second half. Four big decisions, referee got them all wrong, regardless of how they balanced out, all wrong decisions. Fergie will point to these as the deciding factors of the game. For me it was once again our failure to get on top in midfield. First half we needed to hold onto the ball, we didnt. Second half we needed some creativity, we didnt have it. I can see us dropping further points in the remaining games so I really feel this was a decisive day. I hope I'm wrong but it's hard to be optimistic given the whimper of resistance we managed to muster today.

Liam O

Essien wrote: »

I'm gonna hazard a guess here and say I know exactly as much as you do about what would have happened had either decision gone gone Uniteds way.
I'm gona say Chelsea would have pushed on and taken the lead because they know how valuable the 3 points were.
See how that works? Not very logical is it?
Discussing what would have happened when the margins are so fine is absolutely pointless, almost laughable.

United proved what happens when they got the peno against Liverpool and outplayed them for the rest of the game pretty much, of course anything could've happened but I think it would've been United on the up at 1-1

IvySlayer

flahavaj wrote: »

If they win all their games they can't be caught.

United could win all theirs and still not be champions.

Ergo, the league is in Chelsea's hands.

eZe^ wrote: »

Thought the phrase is clear enough 'it's completely in their hands' - they know if they win all their remaining fixtures they win the league. United don't have that luxury. Man United also have to play Man City and Tottenham, so it's not as cut and dry as saying Chelsea have a much more difficult run in.

OK OK

monkey9

Liam O wrote: »

United proved what happens when they got the peno against Liverpool and outplayed them for the rest of the game pretty much, of course anything could've happened but I think it would've been United on the up at 1-1

Well then consider today as Karma then!!

Drumpot

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but then the Chelsea penalty claim wouldn't have happened and if Drogbas goal had been disallowed, Macheda wouldn't have got his goal.

See where I'm going with this.....................

Momentum . . The Decisions favoured chelski in every sense . . How can anybody say a decision that helped make the game 1-1 is the same as a decision that helped make the game 2-0 (unless of course it was in uniteds favour in which case of course the refs love united !)

Whatever the score may of been the decisions favoured them in the game as it gave them boosts at the right time . . I again refer to united v pool where united were owned in the first half until they got the peno that changed the complection of the game. No it may not of happened, but based on how united have reacted to going a goal behind recently its a strong possibility (especially considering uniteds dominance in the 2nd half) .

I suppose its natural for united fans to feel aggrieved as the game at stampford bridge WAS definitely decided by the ref giving chelski every push to victory that they possibly could. .

Essien

Liam O wrote: »

United proved what happens when they got the peno against Liverpool and outplayed them for the rest of the game pretty much, of course anything could've happened but I think it would've been United on the up at 1-1

Last week Chelsea took the lead against Villa, then Villa equalised....what happened then Liam O?

If's and but's man, let it go

Johner

Drumpot wrote: »

Momentum . . The Decisions favoured chelski in every sense . .

Whatever the score may of been the decisions favoured them in the game as it gave them boosts at the right time . . I again refer to united v pool where united were owned in the first half until they got the peno that changed the complection of the game. No it may not of happened, but its a strong possibility (especially considering uniteds dominance in the 2nd half) .

I suppose its natural for united fans to feel aggrieved as the game at stampford bridge WAS definitely decided by the ref giving chelski every push to victory that they possibly could. .

Bitter much.

the_monkey

Osu wrote: »

Clearly biased post. How much more anti-United do you want to prove yourself.


Some of the posts on here make me laugh.


Referee and his officials were rubbish. Everything did even out in the end. It's just heat of the moment stuff.


But no matter what you say decisions change the course of a game.

The game won't pan out the same if we had a penalty or Chelsea did.

Game should have been 2-0 .... United's goal was a joke ... handball ...

Peyton Manning

My take on todays game:

Talking Points: Man Utd 1-2 Chelsea
3 April, 2010 · Leave a Comment



1. Let’s be fair

I posted an article in preparation of this clash lamenting the age old cliché that luck evens itself out over the course of the season. While I still disagree with that, today was a day in which luck evened itself out over the course of 90 minutes. United fans will inevitably point fingers at Mike Dean for not awarding United a penalty for a foul on Ji Sung Park in the first half. But Chelsea themselves can afford to be upset at Dean for not awarding a penalty for Gary Neville’s shoulder barge on Nicolas Anelka minutes later. Dean may well have found himself under pressure after Blackburn’s Matin Olsson admitted to diving in last weekend’s fixture with Burnley, also officiated by Dean, as he knew the referee was prone to awarding penalties. Drogba’s goal was also unfairly allowed – he was clearly offside – but seeing as Kiko Macheda steered in his goal with his arm minutes later, United cannot allow themselves to feel hard done by.

2. Let down by the old guard

It was a rare combined start for Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville today. With a combined haul of 28 league titles between them, one can understand Sir Alex Ferguson’s decision to go with experience, but it backfired today. Giggs and Scholes were guilty of an abundance of misplaced passes, and the game seemed to pass them by at times as Chelsea passed their way around the midfield. Gary Neville’s crossing – for so long an impressive feature of his full back bombardment down the right side – was poor. He put in some crunching tackles to spur on the crowd, but unfortunately that’s where Neville’s contribution ended. He can count himself lucky to have not conceded penalty for his rash tackle on Anelka in the first half. Nani and Macheda combined for United’s goal towards the end, and generally showed a much higher degree of keenness than the old guard did throughout the match.


3. With or without Roo

Expect the tabloids to point to a lack of Wayne Rooney as the catalyst for United’s downfall, but what we saw today was worryingly similar to what we saw in Munich on Tuesday night – where Rooney played for 90 minutes. The England striker’s absence cannot be used as an excuse for Ryan Giggs’ constant surrender of possession, nor can it be used as an excuse for Paul Scholes’ numerous overhit “Hollywood passes”. United have been poor on their own merit for the past 2 games now, and that’s got nothing to do with Wayne Rooney.

4. Dimi a break!

There’s no doubt that people will be lining up to have a pop at Dimitar Berbatov for his failure to lead the line today, but in truth, the Bulgarian could have done very little to change the outcome of today’s match. He had 2 half chances – a header at pace in the first half that fizzed past Petr Cech’s left hand post, and a waist high volley which he drove into the ground late in the second half. There will be unfair criticism of Berbatov after today, but there’s only so much you can expect from a player being played out of position. He is not a striker that leads the line. He is far more comfortable behind a talisman such as Rooney, but up front you can only expect a performance from him akin to a centre back playing at full back, or a full back playing as a winger. It’s just not his natural position. And I refuse to acknowledge his price tag as an ingredient of his criticism – Spurs, similar to Lyon, are a stubborn club when it comes to letting their key players go (and so they have every right to be) and are very good at getting top dollar for those players.

5. Malou-da’s my boy!

You may have been chastised for saying it last Christmas, but Florent Malouda is fast becoming one Chelsea’s most important players. He has followed up a stellar end to last season with an excellent season, and he was key yet again today. He was at the heart of almost everything Chelsea offered up front, and while his assist for Joe Cole’s goal may be more down to the United defence’s reluctance to put in a challenge, he had the confidence to take them on in the first place. It’s this confidence that makes Malouda the player he is, and he is now one of Carlo Ancelotti’s first names on the teamsheet – which may explain why Joe Cole may just struggle to get the contract he wants this summer.



6. It’s a squad game

Strength in depth changed the game today. Whereas United had to bring on 18 year old Kiko Macheda and Darron Gibson when they were chasing the game, Chelsea were able to bring on 30 goals worth of Didier Drogba and Michael Ballack to freshen things up. And it payed off, as Drogba grabbed the goal that put the game out of reach for United. Sir Alex Ferguson has been justified in his decision to bring in Michael Owen at the start of the season – the strikers return for his free price tag has been more than acceptable. But Owen’s fitness has always counted against him – and when key talisman Wayne Rooney got injured, United had to choose between playing Berbatov out of position, or a teenage Macheda who is just back from injury. While this was not their undoing, it made getting back into the game all the more difficult.

7. Advantage Chelsea

A riveting title race took yet another twist today, as it is now Chelsea who occupy the driving seat. Carlo Ancelotti’s men are now 2 ahead of United. With both teams having similar remaining fixtures, the title may just come down to two games – United at City and Chelsea at Liverpool. Deciding who’s task is more difficult will divide opinion, but with Ancelotti’s side having a superior goal difference and no extra curricular distractions in the form of the Champions League, it’s definitely advantage Chelsea.

deisedevil

the_monkey wrote: »

Game should have been 2-0 .... United's goal was a joke ... handball ...

Ah get out of it. Have some honesty about you and admit that Drogba was offside and that would level it up at 1-0 at least. Peno decision went against both teams.

Bad deceisions for united happened at the worst times possible for us. That's how it goes though.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think Chelsea might sneak it by a goal. Hope I'm wrong.

Of all the times I'm wrong with my predictions why not today? :mad:

Don't really have too many complaints about the result. The offside goal is a sickener but I thought United were lethargic and sluggish in the first half. Chelsea were slicker and more tenacious and worthy of the lead. I thought beforehand United might have some joy down the flanks but Valencia had a poor game today and the Chelsea full backs did well. The second half was better for United but it wasn't like Cech faced an onslaught.

United's midfield was poor. Giggs was disappointing. Scholes was careless at times although I feel it was a mistake to take him off near the end as there was no one to spread the play effectively. Berbatov couldn't fill the void left by Rooney.

Perhaps a draw was a fair result all things considered but I can't say I feel cheated by the result. United just didn't perform well enough.

It's definitely Chelsea's to lose now. The goal difference means even if they drop 2 points it might not be enough and the only one I can see them possibly losing of the 5 games left is the Liverpool one but I wouldn't put money on it.

Very disheartening stuff but it just goes to show how pivotal Rooney is to the team. With him there today I feel we would have got something. He's the heart and brains of the operation and it showed.

I just hope United can win their remaining games and if so I guess it will be like '95 and we'll all be Liverpool fans for a day.

K-9

Drumpot wrote: »

Momentum . . The Decisions favoured chelski in every sense . . How can anybody say a decision that helped make the game 1-1 is the same as a decision that helped make the game 2-0 (unless of course it was in uniteds favour in which case of course the refs love united !)

Whatever the score may of been the decisions favoured them in the game as it gave them boosts at the right time . . I again refer to united v pool where united were owned in the first half until they got the peno that changed the complection of the game. No it may not of happened, but based on how united have reacted to going a goal behind recently its a strong possibility (especially considering uniteds dominance in the 2nd half) .

I suppose its natural for united fans to feel aggrieved as the game at stampford bridge WAS definitely decided by the ref giving chelski every push to victory that they possibly could. .

Yes, but that was Liverpool of this season, not last season. This is Chelsea who just beat Villa 7-1!

Chelsea would have had to chase the game at 1-1, the dynamic of the game would have changed.

flahavaj

Archimedes wrote: »

My take on todays game:

All of this essentially.

Drumpot

Johner wrote: »

Bitter much.

In terms of analyzing the game I'm not bitter , just better . . .

deisedevil

Archimedes wrote: »

My take on todays game:

Would pretty much agree with that also. Well written.

Drumpot

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but that was Liverpool of this season, not last season. This is Chelsea who just beat Villa 7-1!

Chelsea would have had to chase the game at 1-1, the dynamic of the game would have changed.

When was the last time united got back into a game at 1-0 down to make it 1-1 and lost ? hint . . Not this season . . Says more then anything TBH . .

SlickRic

a deserved victory for Chelsea.

the first half was far too easy for them. they played the game at their own pace, at Old Trafford of all places, and deservedly got that opening goal when they did.

United did not press enough at all that half.

the second half was very different though, with Utd upping the tempo without having any sort of cutting edge at all. i thought Fletcher bossed the second half, but his outlets did not do him justice. Giggs giving the ball away too much, Scholes mis-hitting half his passes, and Valencia offering surprisingly little.

Chelsea sat back, inviting pressure for some reason, and Utd could have felt justified in equalising halfway through the 2nd half.

then the sucker punch, a farce of a decision, and Drogba takes advantage perfectly.

Macheda scores, once again very controversially, and i really believed it would be 2-2. but then Utd had one more chance really, a Berba effort from waste high.

a fair result though, and Chelsea had the absolute star performers in Malouda in particular, as well as Cole, and i thought Terry looked more like his old self once more as well.

i wouldn't put Chelsea odds-on to win the League yet, like Sky seem to have, but this is obviously a very significant result.

oh and both challenges were penalties IMO. Park was stupid to flail his arms like he did, but I've no idea what the G-Man was doing with his tackle on Anelka.

Mr Alan

doesn't matter Drumpot, United hadn't lost away in Europe in a couple of years until the other night, stats like that mean **** all. You can't start thinking about a butterfly effect with decisions in football, otherwise the smallest things like throw ins given the wrong way, tackles not booked etc would have a huge bearing on things. Basically the officiating was poor today, the officials got 4 big decisions wrong today, 2 in favour of each team.

Pro. F

Ah I hate that. We still have a reasonable chance of winning the league but now it's very much advantage Chelsea.

In the second half Fletcher needed to up his workrate from what it had been, and he did that, which helped a lot but it was too late by then. And overall, Chelsea had dominant spells more often than United.
The bad reffing decisions favoured Chelsea 2-1 but there is no point complaining about that. They were easily the better team today. United's midfield weaknesses are really being tested now - like plenty of us knew they would - hopefully they can still build up some momentum to make as strong a finish to the season as possible.

Edit: oops, forgot about the Kiko handball - 2-2 on the bad decisions then

3hn2givr7mx1sc

SlickRic wrote: »

I've no idea what the G-Man was doing with his tackle on Anelka.

I'd say Anelka slagged his Da.:pac:

Good post, slickric.

K-9

Drumpot wrote: »

When was the last time united got back into a game at 1-0 down to make it 1-1 and lost ? hint . . Not this season . . Says more then anything TBH . .

So you know it would have finished 1-1 or a United win?

That is basically what you are saying.

Eire-Dearg

Thoughts on the Malouda incident, guys? The one where someone headed back and it hit him. Never a penalty, for me...

Essien

K-9 wrote: »

So you know it would have finished 1-1 or a United win?

That is basically what you are saying.

I thought that was a certainty, are you doubting it? Surely not!

Mr Alan

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Thoughts on the Malouda incident, guys? The one where someone headed back and it hit him. Never a penalty, for me...

I thought they showed a replay and it hit his chest?

Johner

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Thoughts on the Malouda incident, guys? The one where someone headed back and it hit him. Never a penalty, for me...

It didn't hit his hand/arm at all did it?

SlickRic

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Thoughts on the Malouda incident, guys? The one where someone headed back and it hit him. Never a penalty, for me...

not a hope.

Fletcher looked like someone had slapped his grandmother the way he reacted though.

Peyton Manning

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Thoughts on the Malouda incident, guys? The one where someone headed back and it hit him. Never a penalty, for me...

No question about it really. Hit the upper most part of his shoulder, nothing could be done about it. If there's a fan out there using that as an example of injustice, they're having a laugh.

Fact is, we can afford to feel hard done by in our first meeting with Chelsea this seaosn, where we were the better team and our tactics were spot on. Today though, we were muck, and poor officiating should be way down the list of what was responsible for the defeat.

Eire-Dearg

Archimedes wrote: »

No question about it really. Hit the upper most part of his shoulder, nothing could be done about it. If there's a fan out there using that as an example of injustice, they're having a laugh.

Believe it or not, there is.

IvySlayer

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Thoughts on the Malouda incident, guys? The one where someone headed back and it hit him. Never a penalty, for me...

Nothing Malouda could done to avoid it, no penalty.

deisedevil

K-9 wrote: »

So you know it would have finished 1-1 or a United win?

That is basically what you are saying.

If it had been the other way around you'd have been making a big deal in Chelseas favour. Stop stirring it up in all fairness. He has a point, if we had got the decisions at the right times it could have made a difference and that's all he;s saying, COULD have made a difference.

Drumpot

deisedevil wrote: »

If it had been the other way around you'd have been making a big deal in Chelseas favour. Stop stirring it up in all fairness. He has a point, if we had got the decisions at the right times it could have made a difference and that's all he;s saying, COULD have made a difference.

Exactly . .

Difficult to know who is simply Sh%t stirring . .

doc_17

Wasn't the worst of games but maybe nani should have started. Giggs did nothing

K-9

deisedevil wrote: »

If it had been the other way around you'd have been making a big deal in Chelseas favour. Stop stirring it up in all fairness. He has a point, if we had got the decisions at the right times it could have made a difference and that's all he;s saying, COULD have made a difference.

Nope, every fan can moan about this decision or that decision. We all do it. But to say that something that happened that early in the match was a result changer, is ..............

Now, if he was saying it about the Drogba goal, he'd have a better point, but unless he is the new Dr. Who and can travel to a parallel universe, who the f*ck knows?

Drumpot

K-9 wrote: »

Nope, every fan can moan about this decision or that decision. We all do it. But to say that something that happened that early in the match was a result changer, is ..............

Now, if he was saying it about the Drogba goal, he'd have a better point, but unless he is the new Dr. Who and can travel to a parallel universe, who the f*ck knows?

So the fact that United have not come from a goal behind and lost a game all season means I am simply picking a point and basing it on nothing ? Never let a fact get in the way of a good delusion . . :P

And by simple logic in ANY game, at 1-1 you have a better chance of winning the game then at 2-0 . . At 1-1 chelski have to play a differant way and cant just sit back and try to pick united off (like they did in the 2nd half) and united get a much needed boost after such a disastrous start. .

Im not saying that united would of won or drawn the game but they certainly would of had a better chance at 1-1 . . I dont see how anybody could think conceding a goal after dominating united would of made chelski play any better or united play any worse . .

deisedevil

K-9 wrote: »

who the f*ck knows?

Exactly. He was of the opinion that we could have got something from the game had the decisions gone our way at the right time. You don't know that it wouldn't either so why are you giving him such a hard time of it.

madds

Totally bossed out of it in midfield in the first half. When Scholes or Giggs tried to lay into them they inevitably gave away a free kick. Was crying out for a Keane type figure to lead the charge but those days are long gone and Neville does not inspire as captain (his crossing today was again very poor).

Fletch tried his hardest but Chelsea looked very comfortable on the ball. Berbatov cannot play the lone striker role as you need someone with a quick touch, someone who can both hold up the ball AND turn and run at defenders. Berbs is effective at holding it up sometimes but not someone you can depend on. Terry had a field day against him in the first half.

We obviously targeted Zhirkov and Scholes tried with the right to left diagonal pass to Valencia. Hit the target a couple of times early in the game but Scholes' radar then went on the blink. Valencia also didn't get much change out of Zhirkov.

The lads tried their best but we don't have enough zip or strength where it matters these days. We're doing well to still be challenging and we could still pull it back over the next few weeks but it's looking like Chelsea's now.

K-9

Drumpot wrote: »

So the fact that United have not come from a goal behind and lost a game all season means I am simply picking a point and basing it on nothing ? Never let a fact get in the way of a good delusion . . :P

Did Chelsea lose in one of them games? If not, you aren't comparing like with like. Liverpool was a poor example. That penalty was debatable but any Pool fans arguing it changed the game would be living in cloud cuckoo land!

Drumpot wrote:

And by simple logic in ANY game, at 1-1 you have a better chance of winning the game then at 2-0 . . At 1-1 chelski have to play a differant way and cant just sit back and try to pick united off (like they did in the 2nd half) and united get a much needed boost after such a disastrous start. .

Obviously. What dodgy referee decisions would have happened instead of the Chelsea penalty claim and the offside for Drogbas goal?

Drumpot wrote:

I dont see how anybody could think conceding a goal after dominating united would of made chelski play any better or united play any worse . .

Right, so if the penalty had been given, both teams would have played roughly the same. Grand. Ancelotti wouldn't have changed tactics or anything.

You are just after contradicting yourself though.

Drumpot wrote:

At 1-1 chelski have to play a differant way and cant just sit back and try to pick united off (like they did in the 2nd half) and united get a much needed boost after such a disastrous start. .

Drumpot wrote:

I dont see how anybody could think conceding a goal after dominating united would of made chelski play any better or united play any worse . .

Spiritoftheseventies

Thought Berbatov struggled big time today. Never got going.

SlickRic

he's just not the type of player who can do it with no support.

today was not to do with him, it was the shoddiness of Utd's creative force in midfield.