Why do people believe unbelievable deities?

Freiheit

such as the idea that God sends prophets, sacrifices his son, really care's how people behave,none of which to an informed mind make any sense, yet billions world wide believe? why? People today who say that God speaks to them are usually considered mentally ill.... .

Dades

I would suggest in no particular order:

• Fear of death / wish for an afterlife...
• Comfort / the need for someone to pray to...
• Never really questioned it...

In short, it's better (for most) than reality.

HUGE question though.

Fergus

Even more so, why do people more intelligent than you or I believe in such things?

I think it has a lot to do with the brainwashing as a kid, combined with being surrounded by significant majority or others that continue to re-affirm the belief.

iUseVi

Once the brain is wired a certain way its very hard for it to be unwired.

I think Dade's second point is a big one too, people are horrified with a universe where there is no one to look after them.

At the end of the day it has to be explained in terms of brain activity, and I'm sure theres a genetic aspect.

Freiheit

I understand the needs mentioned, I have them too,but religion fails to survive scrutiny....

philologos

Freiheit wrote: »

such as the idea that God sends prophets, sacrifices his son, really care's how people behave,none of which to an informed mind make any sense, yet billions world wide believe? why? People today who say that God speaks to them are usually considered mentally ill.... .

I don't think it's a reasonable assumption that people who believe in God are "uninformed" any more than people who are atheists are "uninformed". The reality is, that a lot of Christians are intelligent people, even if you don't wish to regard them as such due to narrow-mindedness.

You have to ask yourself, if religion (in general) doesn't survive scrutiny why do people still believe? The reason seems to be, is that it does survive scrutiny, and has done so continually.

iUseVi

Freiheit wrote: »

I understand the needs mentioned, I have them too,but religion fails to survive scrutiny....

Evidence does not help in this matter though for most people. It is like water off a duck's back. True believers will never be shaken by any argument whatsoever. In fact for various physiological reasons opposition of their view can sometimes reinforce it.

Freiheit

I reject your accusations of narrow mindedness Jakass. I do accept that many believers are intelligent,more intelligent than me, but I find what they believe in unbelievable....and explains nothing...

Ickle Magoo

Freiheit wrote: »

such as the idea that God sends prophets, sacrifices his son, really care's how people behave,none of which to an informed mind make any sense, yet billions world wide believe? why? People today who say that God speaks to them are usually considered mentally ill.... .

Well, for a start they are clearly not "unbelievable" since billions believe it but, eh, yeah, there are loads of reasons why people find believing a more attractive proposition than not...fear, ignorance, comfort, societal pressure, familial sway, wishful thinking, would probably be the biggest.

philologos

Freiheit, evidently they aren't "unbelievable" if they are believed. A lot of people also have reason for believing. Also about explaining nothing, have you ever tried talking with someone who believes about how it explains life, and their situation? It might be interesting to see it from the other side of the fence. Or is it that you don't want it to explain anything?

Ickle Magoo: So if one is an atheist, one isn't doing it for any of those listed reasons?

Ickle Magoo

:pac: Now you are just copying me.

ETA

Jakkass wrote: »

Ickle Magoo: So if one is an atheist, one isn't doing it for any of those listed reasons?

Well, my thinking on religion or god hasn't changed in my life time so for me, no...I'm sure there are lots of reasons why other people are atheists, I can't imagine how fear, ignorance, comfort, societal pressure, familial sway, wishful thinking really apply to someone who has denounced religion either...if those are also things religion/theism are supposed to give?

philologos

I'm curious. Surely if that can be the case for people who believe, it can also be the case for atheists.

krudler

Because people are probably horrified to think that we probably werent some miraculous intention and in the grand scheme of things we are just a species of supposed higher intelligence floating on a rock in space. so we conjured up some tales of a benign (well used to be a petty mass murderer, but they upped his niceness stats to level 50 once they needed to outdo all the other deities) overseer who looks after us and watches over us, like Superman.

Fergus

The difference between atheists and others I think is how one reacts when at that point, alone with no distraction, where the mind is focussed on the absolute starkness of one's mortality. I think atheists fight against that unresolvable state till they are asleep or brought back to distraction, but don't wish for a resolution.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm curious. Surely if that can be the case for people who believe, it can also be the case for atheists.

So, explain...

philologos

Fergus wrote: »

The difference between atheists and others I think is how one reacts when at that point, alone with no distraction, where the mind is focussed on the absolute starkness of one's mortality. I think atheists fight against that unresolvable state till they are asleep or brought back to distraction, but don't wish for a resolution.

It's not so much that I wish for a resolution.

It's that I find that Christianity provides a closer explanation of why we are here, what life is all about, and how things really are than atheism does.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So, explain...

Think about what you've said for yourself, and apply it to atheism.

PeterIanStaker

Because it makes it far easier to justify murdering people who believe in another version of, or a different unbelievable deity.

Robbyn

It's unbelievable for some, and believable for others, just two matters of opinion, and thats all they will ever be unless god (if there is one) comes down and says "I told you so".

The op's statement is valid and all, but still, it's just a matter of opinon, its like saying, why do some people like the colour black, I hate it, and I can't understand why people like it.

iUseVi

Jakkass wrote: »

It's not so much that I wish for a resolution.

It's that I find that Christianity provides a closer explanation of why we are here, what life is all about, and how things really are than atheism does.

Ah, and then there are those of us who are perfectly happy in not knowing.

Someone: "Why are we here?"
Me: *shrug* "I dunno. "

And btw, atheism is not trying to explain "..why we are here, what life is all about..", its only religions that do this. Atheism is not the opposite of theism, its the lack of it.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

It's not so much that I wish for a resolution.

It's that I find that Christianity provides a closer explanation of why we are here, what life is all about, and how things really are than atheism does.

Huh?

Atheism doesn't attempt to provide any explanation, it's just a lack of belief in a god. Of course an assumption as to why we are here and what life is about is going to provide an explanation that atheism doesn't.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

Think about what you've said for yourself, and apply it to atheism.

For the second time (first time here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65224728&postcount=11), I don't see the similarities regarding theism and atheism regarding the specific words I used, explain what you mean...

krudler

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Because it makes it far easier to justify murdering people who believe in another version of, or a different unbelievable deity.

And burning people alive who may act or look like a witch.

philologos

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

For the second time (first time here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65224728&postcount=11), I don't see the similarities regarding theism and atheism regarding the specific words I used, explain what you mean...

Seriously?

Fear - Bad experiences of church, preconceived notions hold you back from exploring the idea further.

Ignorance - people who haven't given much consideration to any higher truth ever.

Comfort - Christianity, and other faiths, demand a lot of their adherents. It requires commitment to a higher truth. It's easier to stay not believing.

Societal Pressure - Numerous groups do this in relation to atheism. It is particularly prevalent in the far-left from people I have discussed with at university.

Familial Sway - Families with parents who have soured relationships with Christianity may make it more difficult for their children to leave and to be a part of a church.

Wishful thinking - Again, on the lifestyle front. Christianity has huge implications. Jesus says in the Bible, that those who lose their lives will find it in Him, and that one ought to pick up His cross and follow Him. Live for Him, and not for themselves. That's a big ask. People in a lot of cases aren't ready to do this.

As for the definition of your belief, lack of belief. Atheists and Agnostics on this forum even disagree with the terms they use to define it. There is no consistency to be had on the issue.

Atheism is the lack of a belief in God. The conclusion of not believing in God influences other philosophy, how people behave, how people think, how people regard this world.

In turn, Christianity is the affirmation of the person of Jesus Christ, and God's existence. The conclusion of this is remarkable in how people behave.

Freiheit

But nobody here has ever met Jesus, who I can respect as a historical figure...nobody alive has ever met any biblical figure of any faith.......so why then do we people believe their divinely annointed mission?...... . A merciful God sacrificing his child makes no sense to me....a God who creates Homosexuals but hates it's expression etc, makes no sense to me.....a God powerful enough to create the universe, well if s/he does exist, I find it unbelievable that s/he/it would care about such........

Fergus

Jakkass wrote: »

It's not so much that I wish for a resolution.

It's that I find that Christianity provides a closer explanation of why we are here, what life is all about, and how things really are than atheism does.

Thank you for the frankness. Where we differ is on the 'closer' part. When I look at religions for the answer, I can't understand how Christianity, to take your example, is a closer/better explanation than anything else. What is it that brings someone to decide that?

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

Seriously?

Fear - Bad experiences of church, preconceived notions hold you back from exploring the idea further.

Ignorance - people who haven't given much consideration to any higher truth ever.

Comfort - Christianity, and other faiths, demand a lot of their adherents. It requires commitment to a higher truth. It's easier to stay not believing.

Societal Pressure - Numerous groups do this in relation to atheism. It is particularly prevalent in the far-left from people I have discussed with at university.

Familial Sway - Families with parents who have soured relationships with Christianity may make it more difficult for their children to leave and to be a part of a church.

Wishful thinking - Again, on the lifestyle front. Christianity has huge implications. Jesus says in the Bible, that those who lose their lives will find it in Him, and that one ought to pick up His cross and follow Him. Live for Him, and not for themselves. That's a big ask. People in a lot of cases aren't ready to do this.

What? Who mentioned christianity? The OP asked about deities...

Jakkass wrote: »

As for the definition of your belief, lack of belief. Atheists and Agnostics on this forum even disagree with the terms they use to define it. There is no consistency to be had on the issue.

Atheism is the lack of a belief in God. The conclusion of not believing in God influences other philosophy, how people behave, how people think, how people regard this world.

In turn, Christianity is the affirmation of the person of Jesus Christ, and God's existence. The conclusion of this is remarkable in how people behave.

I don't follow - give me an example of how not believing in god would influence how people behave or think other than in respect to theism...

philologos

I'm saying you could equally apply it to atheism. I applied a context, that might be valid for each of the terms you used. You could construct any other case.

That's why I asked you to think for yourself instead of asking me at first.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm saying you could equally apply it to atheism. I applied a context, that might be valid for each of the terms you used. You could construct any other case.

That's why I asked you to think for yourself instead of asking me at first.

Each of your points is taken from a christian perspective and an atheist being put off the christian religion, the OP asked about deities, not religion - I've got a 10 mile long list of reasons why people wouldn't want anything to do with the christian faith, I didn't realise that was what we were discussing...

Dades

Jakkass wrote: »

In turn, Christianity is the affirmation of the person of Jesus Christ, and God's existence. The conclusion of this is remarkable in how people behave.

The remarkable thing being that in reality the behavior of an average "Christian" is no different to that of an average atheist.

Perhaps religious donate more. Perhaps there's less atheists in prison. But whatever stats people come up with there's nothing to say that being a Christian (or pick your faith) makes you a better person. Nothing at all.

krudler

Dades wrote: »

The remarkable thing being that in reality the behavior of an average "Christian" is no different to that of an average atheist.

Perhaps religious donate more. Perhaps there's less atheists in prison. But whatever stats people come up with there's nothing to say that being a Christian (or pick your faith) makes you a better person. Nothing at all.

Indeed, you also dont see athiests slamming planes into buildings, honour killing their own daughters or setting people on fire because they believe in a different deity.

Canis Lupus

Taking christianity as an example I think an awful lot of people just don't really think about it.

In Ireland we get christianity hammered into us from the get go so it's unsurprising that people feel at the very least that some kind of higher power exists.

If you're surrounded by loads of people at least accepting the existence of god right through up to the true believers then it's inevitable that the notion of the existence of a god is a potential possibility BUT people for the most part don't think PAST this point and don't trouble themselves with the awkward questions...

FISMA

What do people believe in Physics if at the fundamental level they:

(1) Do not Know what mass IS.
(2) Do not Know what time IS.
(3) Do not Know what Energy IS.
(4) Do not Know what Force IS.

Because although you may not know what it IS, a little faith/credulity in IT, can literally take us out of this world.



Slan

ColmDawson

FISMA wrote: »

Slán

Buíochas le dia.

Ghost Buster

FISMA wrote: »

What do people believe in Physics if at the fundamental level they:

(1) Do not Know what mass IS.
(2) Do not Know what time IS.
(3) Do not Know what Energy IS.
(4) Do not Know what Force IS.

Because although you may not know what it IS, a little faith/credulity in IT, can literally take us out of this world.



Slan

Or
Ummmmmmmm complicated stuff not sure yet..... brain hurting... ummmmm... durrrrrrrrrr "GOD DID IT'. That works.
Sorry Drunk and full of steak.
Great Friday.:D

Ickle Magoo

FISMA wrote: »

What do people believe in Physics if at the fundamental level they:

Believe in physics? I think you have your terminologies a bit muddled...physics is a tool to enable us to try to better understand the world around us, it's not a belief system...

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

As for the definition of your belief, lack of belief. Atheists and Agnostics on this forum even disagree with the terms they use to define it. There is no consistency to be had on the issue.

It's a good thing there's only one demonination of christianity that every believer is in total agreement on or that would be a ridiculous thing to say

hiorta

Jakkass posted: "Atheists and Agnostics on this forum even disagree with the terms they use to define it. There is no consistency to be had on the issue".

Quite true and quite naturally so.

The great fault of all religions is that they seem to assume that people are all indentical, that what is suitable for one can be fitted onto all others. Such attempts to impose a uniform mindset appears to be the elementary framework for subsequent 'brainwashing'. This approach is then reinforced by the oft repeated 'made in his image' line, when they cannot even show that a god exists far less it being a 'him'.

Yet, a basic look at Life reveals that there are very few truly alike - even twins.
Folk think in this way simply because they are at different stages of growth, development and understanding.

philologos

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Each of your points is taken from a christian perspective and an atheist being put off the christian religion, the OP asked about deities, not religion - I've got a 10 mile long list of reasons why people wouldn't want anything to do with the christian faith, I didn't realise that was what we were discussing...

People can become atheists, by fear, ignorance, comfort, societal pressure, familial sway, and wishful thinking in pretty much the same way that Christians can be.

The reality is though, most intelligent people make decisions about where they stand on issues of belief by thought. This is equally applicable to atheists and Christians.

It would amount to dishonesty to make it out that those factors aren't equally applicable to atheism.

Ickle Magoo

We.are.talking.about.deities....

Why oh why does every thread have to become the Jackass christianity roadshow?!

philologos

Ickle Magoo wrote:

Well, for a start they are clearly not "unbelievable" since billions believe it but, eh, yeah, there are loads of reasons why people find believing a more attractive proposition than not...fear, ignorance, comfort, societal pressure, familial sway, wishful thinking, would probably be the biggest.

Read this quote.

It's applicable to any faith, including Christianity in many cases. I've merely given you an example of how the same could be true for atheism in many cases. You've denied that this is possible:

Ickle Magoo wrote:

For the second time (first time here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...8&postcount=11), I don't see the similarities regarding theism and atheism regarding the specific words I used, explain what you mean...

I even asked you to think for yourself how these terms could be applied to atheism. You said it couldn't.

I provided an explanation of how it could be equally true.

It's just a case of honesty, and admitting that these terms could apply to someones atheism about as readily as it could apply to someones faith in any God or gods.

Then after this, you accuse me of taking the thread off-topic? Are you serious?

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

Read this quote.

It's applicable to any faith, including Christianity in many cases. I've merely given you an example of how the same could be true for atheism in many cases. You've denied that this is possible:

No, I'm just refusing you to apply my answer to a question that wasn't posed. I was answering a question about why people believe in deities, there are plenty of people completely enamoured with religion for a whole myriad of reasons, it doesn't affect their belief in a god.

Jakkass wrote: »

I even asked you to think for yourself how these terms could be applied to atheism. You said it couldn't.

I provided an explanation of how it could be equally true.

No, you provided a list of reasons why people may be put off christianity in relation to my list of why people believe in god...can you see the difference?! If we were asked why people have been put off christianity then all those reasons would indeed apply, however, that wasn't the question being posed.

Jakkass wrote: »

It's just a case of honesty, and admitting that these terms could apply to someones atheism about as readily as it could apply to someones faith in any God or gods.

Then after this, you accuse me of taking the thread off-topic? Are you serious?

What are you talking about, you've been told more times than I care to remember that A&A doesn't really do off topic. What you do is turn every interesting discussion about deistic generalities from an athiestic perspective into a narrow discussion on your beliefs from a theistic perspective, I'm not serious, just bored rigid at this stage.

philologos

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

No, I'm just refusing you to apply my answer to a question that wasn't posed. I was answering a question about why people believe in deities, there are plenty of people completely enamoured with religion for a whole myriad of reasons, it doesn't affect their belief in a god.

Indeed, and my point was that many of these reasons are applicable as to why people become atheists.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

No, you provided a list of reasons why people may be put off christianity in relation to my list of why people believe in god...can you see the difference?! If we were asked why people have been put off christianity then all those reasons would indeed apply, however, that wasn't the question being posed.

Your point was about why people believe in God, or gods. I also said that this was true for many atheists and gave examples. You have to this point not acknowledged that this can be equally true, despite the explanation.

I in fact previous to providing this set of examples, asked you to think about it for yourself, which you were unwilling to do.

I'm quite surprised that you so unwilling to give atheism the same scrutiny you give to belief.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

What are you talking about, you've been told more times than I care to remember that A&A doesn't really do off topic. What you do is turn every interesting discussion about deistic generalities from an athiestic perspective into a narrow discussion on your beliefs from a theistic perspective, I'm not serious, just bored rigid at this stage.

Except it was perfectly on-topic, challenging you to apply the same criticism to atheism. One never applies critical thinking to their own viewpoint though.

There's nothing "narrow" about criticising your post in this way. I'm actually asking you to open your mind, and see it from our perspective.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

Indeed, and my point was that many of these reasons are applicable as to why people become atheists.

I still don't think they really apply to atheism, perhaps familial sway or peer pressure may feature but they would hardly be the norm in comparison with theism baring in mind the stats. I don't see how deciding there is no god to believe in would be comforting, reduce fear, be wishful thinking or based in ignorance - it just doesn't make sense in that context. I know you try to shoe-horn every comment in here back in relation to atheism but I don't think it works in this instance.

Jakkass wrote: »

Your point was about why people believe in God, or gods. I also said that this was true for many atheists and gave examples. You have to this point not acknowledged that this can be equally true, despite the explanation.

I in fact previous to providing this set of examples, asked you to think about it for yourself, which you were unwilling to do.

I'm quite surprised that you so unwilling to give atheism the same scrutiny you give to belief.

Your examples were why people would be put off religion, I agree, there is a list of reasons as long as my arm why people would be put off religion and all my answers would be on it...there is no reason why being put off their religion should put them off their god tho...

Jakkass wrote: »

Except it was perfectly on-topic, challenging you to apply the same criticism to atheism. One never applies critical thinking to their own viewpoint though.

You can say that again I answered you, several times...

Jakkass wrote: »

There's nothing "narrow" about criticising your post in this way. I'm actually asking you to open your mind, and see it from our perspective.

If you asked the questions from a general theistic POV, I'd agree - but everything always seems to come back to christianity and religion - I don't give a monkeys about religion, even if I were to become a theist, I wouldn't touch christianity with a barge pole so your constant picking at posts in this forum in the desperate hope to score points for the sake of your religion is just tiresome and futile.

philologos

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

If you asked the questions from a general theistic POV, I'd agree - but everything always seems to come back to christianity and religion - I don't give a monkeys about religion, even if I were to become a theist, I wouldn't touch christianity with a barge pole so your constant picking at posts in this forum in the desperate hope to score points for the sake of your religion is just tiresome and futile.

I'm not particularly interested in point-scoring. I doubt God needs me to score points for Him anyway. I don't expect people to be majorly convinced by my posts.

Rather this forum, I'd hope exists, to form dialogue with people, to express disagreement, to question one another, and vice versa.

I questioned your understanding of how people come to believe in God or gods, and said, hang on, this is also true of atheism surely. Then we started going down this beaten track. I mean perhaps if we didn't get into complaining about the question asked and made an earnest effort to actually deal with it it might be more conducive to discussion. It also makes it more relaxed, and friendly to actually engage with them in earnest.

Abraham

hiorta wrote: »

Jakkass posted: "Atheists and Agnostics on this forum even disagree with the terms they use to define it. There is no consistency to be had on the issue".

Quite true and quite naturally so.

The great fault of all religions is that they seem to assume that people are all indentical, that what is suitable for one can be fitted onto all others. Such attempts to impose a uniform mindset appears to be the elementary framework for subsequent 'brainwashing'. This approach is then reinforced by the oft repeated 'made in his image' line, when they cannot even show that a god exists far less it being a 'him'.

Yet, a basic look at Life reveals that there are very few truly alike - even twins.
Folk think in this way simply because they are at different stages of growth, development and understanding.

Yes to all that and more.
What the donminant religions just about everywhere try to get is passive compliance.,.....unquestioning acceptance of the dogma they espouse.

Just about everything done in religious terms is for 'the greater honour and glory of God'.
Why? Has this guy a massive ego or what ?
What does he need it for ?

All kinds of unspeakable miseries abound, millions get killed, wiped out, diseased and kids get injured, maimed, and all for the greater honour and glory of the mysterious great one who must have glorification (but it's sinful if anyone else wants it).
And if you question that, well then you are some kind of evil being, etc.
No one knows if he exists for sure other than to profess 'belief' on the part of some. Primitives were usually gullible enough to accept this but hey the rest of us need a little more.

Ickle Magoo

Jakkass wrote: »

I questioned your understanding of how people come to believe in God or gods, and said, hang on, this is also true of atheism surely. Then we started going down this beaten track. I mean perhaps if we didn't get into complaining about the question asked and made an earnest effort to actually deal with it it might be more conducive to discussion. It also makes it more relaxed, and friendly to actually engage with them in earnest.

But I don't care that people disagree with my opinions on religion/theism - fairly par for the course when I think their god is completely made up, they are deluded and I'm absolutely convinced most religions are patriarchal, archaic man-made for man-control money-making organisations. If I wanted to answer an endless stream of questions relating to christianity, or I wanted to "engage" with theists "in earnest" regarding their beliefs then I'd post on that forum.

Of course, you can question my understanding of theism and interject with christianity at every available opportunity in every other thread in A&A until the cows come home; in the vain hope you'll hit upon that magical phrase or question that will suddenly make theism seem completely rational to me and/or christianity at all appealing but believe me, it's never going to happen - the latter with bells on. So it just becomes annoying.

Despite hearing all the ways folks have managed to convince themselves and seem so sure no atheist could be left without faith, I've yet to witness a theist in real life or online put forward anything approaching what I would consider a rational argument to support their supernatural claims and absolutely nothing to make religion seem even remotely appealing. :cool:

Fergus

If we could get back on topic with this (the question of why do deists believe), I would really like to get some sort of answer. The closest I've ever got to it with believers is that they've had some sort of personal experience that has absolutely confirmed and proven, for them, the existence of a deity. Needless to say, I have never had such an experience.. or perhaps I have, but haven't attached such significance to it. Or as believers might say, I have not 'opened my mind' sufficiently. But in my book, that's just another way of saying one needs to rationalize the irrational.

Freiheit

I think deities do absolutely nothing to explain the world or people and have held civilisation back. Their only purpose is to impose order which has it's purpose, but none encourage independent thought which is essential to understand the world today.......religion provided a plausible stab,4, 2, 1,000 years ago.....not today.......

I see on another thread Jakass is again debating homosexuality, well religous position on homosexual acts has kept our understanding of such, until recently in the dark ages.

The fact that religion explains so little is reason enough for me to consider it unbelievable.

If God had a message for us all to hear, I'm sure there would be better ways than ancient prophets before the age of dvd recorders or satelite tv.

Brainwashing, censorship of questioning due to subconscious insecurity about the credibility of a deity....good reason for people to believe I'd say.........

Incidentaly do others here feel that religion will become less influential world wide in the future? can religous states survive in the distant future?

Memnoch

Robbyn wrote: »

It's unbelievable for some, and believable for others, just two matters of opinion, and thats all they will ever be unless god (if there is one) comes down and says "I told you so".

The op's statement is valid and all, but still, it's just a matter of opinon, its like saying, why do some people like the colour black, I hate it, and I can't understand why people like it.

Sorry no...

Saying that - "I believe some book written over a thousand years ago by a political organisation and then altered and re-interpreted to suit the agendas of said organisation is actually the direct word of a supernatural being that was responsible for all creation even though there is zero, provable, emperical evidence for the same,' is in NO WAY equitable to saying....

'There isn't any evidence to support that religious texts have any truth to them and therefore no reason to believe in their teachings.'

It's a clever trick that religious organisations have adopted since they realised that burning anyone who opposed their views at the stake was no longer effective. To try and equate their blind faith to rational reason and logic as some kind equal and comparable theory.

"Evolution and Creationism are just two theories, neither more or less valid than the other."

You're trying to say that refusing to believe in something for which there is zero evidence is just as rational as believing in one of a number of fantasies that are propped up by not even circumstantial proof.

Abraham

If deities really exist, why are they so sparing with their massive powers ?
Why do they play cat and mouse so much ?
Why do they watch people struggle with disease, misfortune, starvation, injury, war, when all of that could be wiped out at a stroke ?
Why ? Just why ?
Oh it's a mystery.....God's ways are known only to him.....we must never challenge or question these....they are all part of a divine plan.
Listen God...send me a clear unambigious message....writ large and incapable of any other meaning and I'll be yours forever and no mistake whatever.

But for as long as you keep up the smoke and mirrors dialogue, I'm afraid I can't buy that kind of mischievous manipulation.

Religion is simply a very good system of social control and has never been anything else.

Dades

Abraham wrote: »

Religion is simply a very good system of social control and has never been anything else.

Not that good let's face it!

The world is borked and it ain't the atheists causing all the trouble. :pac: