5.1 surround sound with TV in the corner. Pointless? Awkward?

milltown

I've got my 40" 720p Samsung TV being fed blurays from my PS3 and I think it looks great. I had planned to upgrade the telly this year to a full HD 100hz job, but lately I've got to thinking that I'm still wowed by how good the blurays look on my current set and what's missing, to make a movie or a game more immersive, is actually surround sound.

I'm sure my problem is a common one so I'm hoping there are some easy answers.

The TV is on a unit in the corner of the living room. The same corner that has all the extra sockets and the NTL point. Ideally, for a nice 5.1 setup I'd want a nice square/rectangular space with the TV central on a wall. Moving it and re-arranging the room would be a headache but convincing herself probably more so.

With the telly where it is, I've essentially got a diamond shaped room which would leave me with a centre speaker and sub in the corner, with the TV. Front left speaker would be in the bay window, or over the curtain pole above the bay. Right centre could be on the mantlepiece, or hidden just under the overhang at the end of it. The two rear speakers would then need to be about half way along each of the remaining walls, and to keep them semi out of sight I'd probably have to mount them up near the ceiling.

Does this sound like madness? Waste of time and money? Could I expect any sort of surround "experience" with speakers at different heights and the fronts a couple of feet in front of the TV and centre speaker?

Would I be better off settling for a decent soundbar?

All thoughts and opinions welcome!

Ghost Train

Well usually you can calibrate the speaker levels and distance from you (delay), so should be able to get a decent setup

tc2010

id imagine a very high percentage of people have exactly the same room as you.

we cant all have rooms shaped like a sony showroom

Idleater

milltown wrote: »

Would I be better off settling for a decent soundbar?

This is certainly an option, assuming that your listening position is somewhat in the opposite corner.

I tried to figure out some interesting solutions for this in my house, and the best way that I got it to work in the "diamond" layout was to run a 4 speaker (no centre) because there was no room to put the centre under the tv and the L + R were quite close to the screen. this worked but the sound is a bit localised. I have since opted to move the Display into a more square (as opposed to diamond) layout and it is working fantastically.

So, to summarise, what you are proposing is doable but will require some interesting speaker setup configurations because some of the speakers will either be more distant that others, or the sound field will have to be tailored for a larger distance and area. The sound bar is the neatest option, and probably the simplest setup wise, but compromises on the official 5.1 surround sound setup in locations other than the ideal location.

akaSol

Horrendous as it sounds you could try the Bose AM10 format?
(Please no one kill me for mentioning them)
Simply because they can split there sound field's in two directions at the same time. Beyond that you could make a virtual square (Bose) or otherwise two speakers beside the set (L+R) and the opposite (BL,BR) facing them if possible.

>Sol
(Off topic Q: nereid,your using a "quadraphonic" set up ?)

The Ritz

Horrendous as it sounds you could try the Bose AM10 format?
(Please no one kill me for mentioning them)
Simply because they can split there sound field's in two directions at the same time. Beyond that you could make a virtual square (Bose) or otherwise two speakers beside the set (L+R) and the opposite (BL,BR) facing them if possible.

I am actually tempted.....

The solution to your setup is not going to be helped by buying Bose - they're unikely to help anyone, imho, being primarily style oriented. As for Soundbars, I would be inclined to try to accomodate separate speakers rather than a soundbar - I think these are designed more to accomodate interior design desires in the first place and sound quality second place, if at all. (Sweeping statement ? probably...;))

I think you could follow nereid's example - most AV receivers have the option to have a "phantom" centre channel - it routes the centre channel as a stereo signal to the Left and Right speaker - hence you only have to accomodate two front and two rear speakers. While sub-bass sound should not be localised - ie you should not be able to tell where the sub is from listening to the soundtrack, the location of the subwoofer does matter in practice in order to get the most out of it. I'd recommend a long subwoofer cable and a bit of experimentation - a well located corner placement can reinforce the bass and also be discrete. As long as the rear speakers are behind you or to either side of you, you'll still get the sound field effect. So, left and right speaker to each side of the TV, rear speakers behind you (even mounted high up near the cieling if your seating position is against a wall) and you're good to go.

Cheers,

Ritz.

Idleater

akaSol wrote: »

(Please no one kill me for mentioning them)

Get Him!!!

:pac:

akaSol wrote: »

Simply because they can split there sound field's in two directions at the same time. Beyond that you could make a virtual square (Bose) or otherwise two speakers beside the set (L+R) and the opposite (BL,BR) facing them if possible.

Actually you are right, that is an interesting viewpoint and might work. Not sure price wise if a B&W panorama would achieve the same effect with less wires trailing around the place, but it is a valid consideration. +1 for di-poles (ish)

akaSol wrote: »

(Off topic Q: nereid,your using a "quadraphonic" set up ?)

Sort of - it's surprisingly close orientation wise, but the speakers are not even. I'll post a pic in the pictures pictures pictures thread when I get a chance, but I'm running two SA-XP30's as my general 2 channel audio with B&W ccm in-ceiling's and a couple of M1's thrown in for good measure for surround duties. I can use one for centre, but the XP's do a fine job, and I haven't noticed anything lacking from the 'centre' channel. There are various orientations in my room that I can achieve surround sound (90, 180, and 270 in a square, and I have tried the 45, 135 options too). I've separate power amps for stereo and surround channels which means none of the channels are ever lacking power wise.

Technically I'm ahead of the posee - I'm waiting for the vertical presence channels to be supported by Hollywood and BR publishers.

kuro_man

A solution maybe in-ceiling speakers
http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/Product_range/custom-loudspeaker-install/index.asp

That would free up space for a proper centre speaker and sub and have a high WAF

carrolls

milltown wrote: »

I've got my 40" 720p Samsung TV being fed blurays from my PS3 and I think it looks great. I had planned to upgrade the telly this year to a full HD 100hz job, but lately I've got to thinking that I'm still wowed by how good the blurays look on my current set and what's missing, to make a movie or a game more immersive, is actually surround sound.

I'm sure my problem is a common one so I'm hoping there are some easy answers.

The TV is on a unit in the corner of the living room. The same corner that has all the extra sockets and the NTL point. Ideally, for a nice 5.1 setup I'd want a nice square/rectangular space with the TV central on a wall. Moving it and re-arranging the room would be a headache but convincing herself probably more so.

With the telly where it is, I've essentially got a diamond shaped room which would leave me with a centre speaker and sub in the corner, with the TV. Front left speaker would be in the bay window, or over the curtain pole above the bay. Right centre could be on the mantlepiece, or hidden just under the overhang at the end of it. The two rear speakers would then need to be about half way along each of the remaining walls, and to keep them semi out of sight I'd probably have to mount them up near the ceiling.

Does this sound like madness? Waste of time and money? Could I expect any sort of surround "experience" with speakers at different heights and the fronts a couple of feet in front of the TV and centre speaker?

Would I be better off settling for a decent soundbar?

All thoughts and opinions welcome!

This is my own experience so it might not be your solution.
Clerys DID Electrical are currently selling the Pioneer LX03BD Blu-Ray Surround system at half price. I bought one last month. It is the best sounding unit I have ever seen for that price and that includes the audiophile brands like NAD and Arcam.
Among its extensive features is MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration) which automatically calibrates the system sound to suit your room. That means you can position the 6 speakers where you want, and the MCACC will work out the audio level and settings for each speaker. Brilliant? This is what you want? It also plays SACDs and DVD-Audio which is the main reason that I bought it.

zabzab

I install for a living and am regularly faced with the diamond issue as reality is tv is in corner. I use the monitor audio sound bar lcr also I think polk audio do one and James do a summed bar which is brilliant.With regards to rears the problem is getting cable to them . The ideal positioning info is readily available
but a lot of specs call for dipole rears. Th rear is actually a misnomer because they are usually at side of listening position. Ceiling speakers with aimable tweeters are also an acceptable comprmise as at the end of the day
once you go with the diamond shape everything is a compromise. The sub can in theory go anywhere in room but corner positioning may become boomy

Biffo The Bare

carrolls wrote: »

This is my own experience so it might not be your solution.
Clerys DID Electrical are currently selling the Pioneer LX03BD Blu-Ray Surround system at half price.
Among its extensive features is MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration) which automatically calibrates the system sound to suit your room..

I checked out the LX03BD in Clerys and unfortunately its not hooked up in the showroom. It looks amazing though. At €899 this has got to be a bargain.

milltown

In the end I went for an Onkyo HTS3305 system...
http://www.richersounds.com/product/1-box-home-cinema-systems/onkyo/hts3305/onky-hts3305-blk
I have it in the office/den for the moment (until I can convince SWMBO of it's benefits and get permission to chase walls or pull skirting boards to hide the wires in the sitting room) which has presented me a new problem :rolleyes:
The armchair is in the bay window, which means I can put the surround speakers on the windowsill and they'll be perfectly positioned, so long as I don't want to pull the curtains! I think a pair of stands may be needed. Otherwise I'd have the speakers in front of where I sit, firing across, but not into, the bay window.

I'll get there yet!

eddiem74

milltown, you don't have to chase walls or pull off skirting, unless perfection is needed. You could consider some stick on conduit or trunking which you can pick-up in B&Q or any major hardware store. Even if bought in white it can usually be painted over, and can be bought quite thin, so its not that visible unless you look for it in the room.

Codpeas

I realise the OP has already sorted themselves out but in case it's helpful to anyone here is my 2c.

I've always had the TV in a corner and had mixed results with 5.1 audio - it really depended on where you were sitting as to the experience you got.

I have both 3-seater and 2-seater sofas in the room and the surround satellites for my 5.1 systems were always either side of the three seater which meant that anyone sitting on the 2-seater was less than impressed.

I then upgraded everything in the room last year and went the 7.1 route to add a bit more to the experience and it worked a treat. Each sofa now has 1x surround and 1x rear surround on either side. I also went with what I think ZabZab refers to above as the "monitor audio soundbar lcr" - I'm assuming he/she means the Monitor Audio Radius HD speaker, the RoneHD which provides left/centre/right in one unit and happens to be exactly the same width as my TV. My satellites are 4x R90HD on stands and that's topped off with a R370HD woofer positioned to one side of the TV at the window - my 10 mth old thinks the woofer is for him to bang things on - yikes, where's the T-Cut!!! Audio provided by an Onkyo 607 receiver.

I tried the woofer in a variety of positions and found corners to be a bad idea as other advice I had read told me and someone mentions above - it boooooooomed.

Here's a rough layout of my setup to make things clearer.




Now a lot of people will tell you that 7.1 is a bit of a waste of money as not much provides all of those channels and while there is some validity in that argument, I let my Onkyo upmix anything that is not DTSHD-MA or Dolby TrueHD to Dolby ProLogic IIx which as least gives something from the rear surrounds and after calibrating the system using the A, B and C seating positions indicated, it doesn't really matter where you are sitting anymore - you get a good experience all around the room.

milltown

Codpeas wrote: »

Here's a rough layout of my setup to make things clearer.

:eek:

A rough idea?

Sweet looking setup btw.

@Eddiem:
Perfection is not needed by me. Mrs.Milltown on the other hand...
TBH it would be an excuse to replace the pony skirting boards that the house was built with anyway. The short runs from skirting to speaker could be managed easily enough.

eddiem74

milltown wrote: »

@Eddiem:
Perfection is not needed by me. Mrs.Milltown on the other hand...
TBH it would be an excuse to replace the pony skirting boards that the house was built with anyway. The short runs from skirting to speaker could be managed easily enough.

Understand, however you be surprised how well this can look, and it really is not that visible, plus the front clips on and off so easy access for changing cables, etc. My better half was the same, but has no issues with it now, once it was on and painted.

If updating the skirting, you might want to consider an approach which allows you upgrade speaker wires or run other wires in the future without having to pull them off again. :eek:

Good luck ! :pac:

zabzab

There are some other possibilities for retro fitting cable the DLine range is designed to match almost any finish I believe they also do a woodstainable unit for a perfect match and ther is skirting board available with channels for cable though I have been known to route out the back of skirting myself.